Deuce Deuce
Member
Say, someone is Valedictorian with a 2.0 GPA. It renders the title almost completely pointless and is in fact rather misleading. Might as well just get rid of the title w/o some form of measurement.
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White student made co-valedictorian with black student, despite having lower GPA
- Thread starter Piecake
- Start date
Say, someone is Valedictorian with a 2.0 GPA. It renders the title almost completely pointless and is in fact rather misleading. Might as well just get rid of the title w/o some form of measurement.
Lord of Ostia
Member
Most likely you are right, and this is the district being racist. It's Mississippi, if a lot of you casting doubt on this case actually lived in or knew much about Mississippi, you'd be skeptical of the school too. In which case, they are gonna have hell to pay in court because they've lied about the grades and there have to be records of each students grades. That said, it is not rare for schools to have multiple valedictorians, nor for them to be called up and have speaking order alphabetically, hence the skepticism on the part of some posters. But Mississippi isn't like most places in the US (as evidenced by the school's failure to integrate until fucking 2016).
PaulExcellent
Member
Almost the same over here, but I was off by .15+ or so.
(I didn't turn in like, three big assignments cause I was so scared of public speaking and my counselor hooked me up. LOL)
I like how people are questioning how the plaintiffs know that there's a GPA difference.
The valedictorian (ie someone smart) is suing in a court of law, you don't think that they've thought about this little detail already?
Meanwhile, you're a random internet person who only knows about the broad strokes of this story through a news article.
Hickbilly Deluxe
Banned
Not anyone else's business to be honest.
ClosingADoor
Member
It seems really strange to have some competition in a school about who is the best. If this is important to their follow up education, it is even stranger, since you being the best at school X doesn't say anything about your skills if that score is way lower then the one being the best at school Y.
But if they have this strange system, the school should be transparent about it when issues like this pop up.
But the school archives is hat data, don't they? I can call up and get my transcripts just like anyone could. So in cases like this that information is available already if it's needed.
I just don't think some commission or new infrastructure is needed to make sure a valedictorian is chosen fairly. The information is available for review if the need arises.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
GPA can be made public or revealed to parents if there is a dispute. Individual grades are only available to district admins like myself to audit if necessary. Those don't need to be released.
Deuce Deuce
Member
Which brings me back around to saying that the Valedictorian designation is pointless then. If there's a competition, then there needs to be some transparency and a measure of actual achievement.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Holy shit dude I know your aren't this dense. The reason you would want the grades sent up to district/ state for archiving (which is not some wild new infrastructure since you really seem to be concerned about the school budget) is so that the school can't go back and monkey with past grades to get the gpa they want, which is a strong possibility as to what happened here.
Hang on, the proposal being discussed was for a nuetral third party to make a determination, not grades to be held by some central office (be it within the school district or not). The former is what I'm addressing, the latter seems perfectly normal.
Deuce Deuce
Member
The whole concept of GPA is sort of pointless for similar reasons since a 4.0 at one school is not necessarily the same as a 4.0 at another.
There are standardized tests in many districts, but those have problems of their own.
Saint Gregory
Member
I guess there's different policies for this. When I graduated from high school (granted it was ages ago) all of our final grade point averages were published so we all knew who the valedictorian and salutatorian were before they were even officially announced. It was pretty hard to have the exact same GPA too since we were on the X.XX scale.
Intheflorsh
Banned
It does seem pretty convenient the school's first year with a black valedictorian is also the first year (out of 110) they decide to award the status to more than one person.
Has there never before been a class where the top two students shared the same GPA in the school's entire history?
Has there never before been a class where the top two students shared the same GPA in the school's entire history?
Christ. I'm starting to feel that the lawsuit is justified.
Deuce Deuce
Member
Makes sense to me.
Though judging by the original article and some of the posts, I get the impression that schools are softer these days.
Aaronology
Member
Aye, that's how my school did things in Alabama. I was one of two valedictorians, had a very slightly lower GPA but many more activities under my belt than the girl I graduated with. I also spoke before her.
I'm inclined to believe it's 100% possible this was a racist decision and the plaintiff is 100% right.
But judging by how parents can be; I'm also inclined to believe it's possible they aren't right and some of these facts are emotionally stated falsehoods they may not have any way of knowing. The 110 year history of a school's valedictorian honors for instance; while it's possible they "know that for a fact there's never been a co-valedictorian", it also seems suspect to me that they would.
Champion should come out last for speeches because the second place student should be the opening act. But to actually walk and get the diploma should have been champ first. If their GPA was exactly the same then it should have went alphabetical which it sounds like they didn't do that either.
BronsonLee
Member
I know fuck all about comics, keep me outta this!
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Is there some sort of right to be the only valedictorian if you have the best GPA? Even if the school is lieing with the same GPA thing (or generously rounding the numbers), if there are no strict rules on valedictorian, I doubt there is anything that can be done about this. Moreover, it comes off as outstandingly pitty to go to court over someone else also getting accolades. That's actually quite crazy in my eyes.
It's potentially racism.
That's why they're suing, not because she wants to hog the limelight.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Suing over it is kind of extreme but the school obviously shit on the black student
Re: GPAs, in my high school ours were printed on the report cards to two decimal places, and we definitely knew what everyone had
Re: GPAs, in my high school ours were printed on the report cards to two decimal places, and we definitely knew what everyone had
Man, my school there were 12 of us who were Valedictorians. I had suspected that not all of us were at the same GPA exactly, they just let people who were in the absolute top 1% share the title. Girl and her mom should just make their peace with it and move on really. Girl is smart/motivated to earn that GPA; so she's going to be successful no doubt. Shouldn't let sharing the honor with another student make her lose focus.
Edit: Also for people wondering how the parent is determining GPA of the other student. I'm guessing if she knows what classes the girl has taken it wouldn't be hard. There are honors classes you can take, so many students go above a 4.0. So if she knows her daughter took even 1 more honors class than the other girl and got all high marks, it's pretty easy to assume their GPAs aren't the same.
Edit: Also for people wondering how the parent is determining GPA of the other student. I'm guessing if she knows what classes the girl has taken it wouldn't be hard. There are honors classes you can take, so many students go above a 4.0. So if she knows her daughter took even 1 more honors class than the other girl and got all high marks, it's pretty easy to assume their GPAs aren't the same.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
I dont know for sure that this was racism, but being that the district just recently desegregated, its definitely within the realm of possibility.
My advice for this young woman is to use that high GPA to get into a good college, get a degree, and move the hell away from Mississippi.
Maybe go to one of the non-racist states in America. Like say Denmark.
My advice for this young woman is to use that high GPA to get into a good college, get a degree, and move the hell away from Mississippi.
Maybe go to one of the non-racist states in America. Like say Denmark.
If they have a legit claim to it, sure.
But if it turned out they are blowing wind, I'd say the school should only have one Valedictorian then and not the parent's kid. I know we had two, since I was in classes with both. One wanted to be a French major and go aboard, the other was accepted to MIT if I recall. He had a lower GPA, but his course work was a magnitude higher because of it. Hence why they gave co honors.
But if it turned out they are blowing wind, I'd say the school should only have one Valedictorian then and not the parent's kid. I know we had two, since I was in classes with both. One wanted to be a French major and go aboard, the other was accepted to MIT if I recall. He had a lower GPA, but his course work was a magnitude higher because of it. Hence why they gave co honors.
If you read the story in the OP that is what the school had originally planned, until the mother of the girl suing complained. The only reason the two didn't come out in alphabetical order is because the one girl's family complained.
If the school is lying about the qualifications for valedictorian, then your statement is true.
If the school is telling the truth about the qualifications for valedictorian, then your statement is false.
It all comes down to who is telling the truth here: the family of the girl suing, or the school.
How is it obvious without knowing both of their exact GPAs?
makingmusic476
Member
If it's like my high school was, then the top handful of people were super competitive (in a friendly way), and were quite possibly swapping GPAs all the time to see who was in the lead.
It could very well be that the students themselves had determined who would end up being #1 before the school made an official announcement, thus the announcement took them by surprise.
It could very well be that the students themselves had determined who would end up being #1 before the school made an official announcement, thus the announcement took them by surprise.
timetokill
Banned
So what do you do? Tell them really high so they get demoralized, or tell them low to get them to slack off?
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
If one took every AP class and the other didn't then yeah they could.
At my high school it was only possible to become valedictorian if you were an amazing artist.
QuantumZebra
Member
^^^^
Mississippi is the most backwards and racist state in the country and its not even close.
Deuce Deuce
Member
Louisiana is a close second.
Which is why the school doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt imo
My wife was kinda sorted out of getting valedictorian, and instead got salutatorian. The other student shouldn't have been awarded anything, but her mom was on the school board, and things were done.
The other student was failing an AP English IV class, and she dropped the class AFTER the cutoff date passed. The cutoff date, if done before it, the class isn't recorded. If you drop the class after the cutoff date, you're recorded an incomplete class, which affects your GPA.
So, when near the end of the year, when things were being sorted, my wife's GPA was a point higher than this other student, and the second ranked student was a .8 higher. Well, school board mom works her magic, gets the incomplete class off the record, which takes the negative points off, and GPA goes up and is the same as the GPA my wife had. Now this other girl happened to be captain of the tennis team, that my wife was on. So that gave the other student the merit and she got valedictorian and my wife got salutatorian. The other student got "3rd place ribbon".
Well, my wife had a child her senior year, worked part time, had a baby, still went to college, got her degree, and is making three times more per year than that other girl. /shrugs
Is it that important that you can't be "CO-valedictorian"?
The other student was failing an AP English IV class, and she dropped the class AFTER the cutoff date passed. The cutoff date, if done before it, the class isn't recorded. If you drop the class after the cutoff date, you're recorded an incomplete class, which affects your GPA.
So, when near the end of the year, when things were being sorted, my wife's GPA was a point higher than this other student, and the second ranked student was a .8 higher. Well, school board mom works her magic, gets the incomplete class off the record, which takes the negative points off, and GPA goes up and is the same as the GPA my wife had. Now this other girl happened to be captain of the tennis team, that my wife was on. So that gave the other student the merit and she got valedictorian and my wife got salutatorian. The other student got "3rd place ribbon".
Well, my wife had a child her senior year, worked part time, had a baby, still went to college, got her degree, and is making three times more per year than that other girl. /shrugs
Is it that important that you can't be "CO-valedictorian"?
I could be wrong, but my guess is that a lot of racist grievances has piled up over the years.
I mean, the school didn't desegregate until a year ago and never had a co-valedictorian until now. Suddenly they do have one when a black student is going to win that honor? Reading between the lines, I'd imagine that that school and the community are not the most inclusive and welcoming.
I'd imagine that that causes a lot more emotional hurt, frustration, and anger than a mom taking advantage of her position to screw someone over their awards just because that mom wants her daughter/son to win.
As it appears many are taking this thread as a chance to reminisce about how they totally (or nearly totally) rocked their highschool class grades, I don't doubt it is very important to a number of people.
Escape Goat
Member
How does this woman know their GPA are the same? She doesn't but she's going fishing.
You can't make GPA public because of the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA): https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/brochures/parents.html
They need written permission from the student's parents to do anything. They can't show GPA to other parents either.
Once a student is 18, even parents can't authorize release of information.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
But its a small town so she knows because math.
It's important at that time. Ten years out of high school it is nothing more than a footnote of your life story.
LinkAndEpona
Banned
I didn't achieve any special awards from highschool but was GPA really all that mattered toward valedictorian? You didn't need to do some sort of project at least? I can't remember if this is a single award either, I thought multiple people could earn this status.
Anyway I believe she will be able to rise above this and still achieve great things for herself.
Anyway I believe she will be able to rise above this and still achieve great things for herself.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Why would anyone lie? It'd be really easy to get called out on. Most of these people are in the same class. Most of them know whenever the others game As or not. Not to mention these are HS kids, at the tops of their schools, thinking about college. Knowing they aren't the #1 isn't going to demoralize them. That's ridiculous
Considering none of that other stuff can be judged objectively, yeah. Usually
Looking at the info about the schools...
One middle school was 99.9% African American and the other middle school was 51% African American and 43% white. The high schools... one is 100% African American, and the other high school is 45% white and 47% African American.
Trying my best to find the racism here. Someone help me with this. This seems like a consolidation battle, not a desegregation issue. Am I wrong?
High school valedictorians are the most awful parts of a graduation ceremony, most of the time it just reinforces economic/social privilege while not recognizing and honoring students who struggled early in their schooling but managed to greatly improve over the years. My high school got rid of valedictorians due to lawsuits like this one, albeit not over issues of race, a couple years before I came in and it was replaced with an honor society for the 5% percent of seniors with the highest cumulative gpa , no other criteria. This was super competitive and basically required straight A's and lots of APs which effectively shut out many poorer students who were exceptional in their own right, but unable to justify the extra cost and effort of taking the APs. I am sure that there are cases where valedictorian awards are not quite so regressive, but for the most part they reward students who coasted through high school while ignoring more deserving, albeit lower GPA students, who rose from lower beginnings.
Also fuck Cum, Summa, and Magna Cum Laude awards as well, because they operate on the same idea of rewarding students that were consistently strong students throughout their career while not recognizing how those who struggled at first or dealt with personal tragedy managed to overcome and succeed despite that. While I recognize that they did great work, it felt awful that we gave the Magna Cum Laude students an extra-long standing ovation at my college graduation, when knowing that so many other students had just as much of a challenge to overcome, if not more. These honors focus on the destination over the journey and trivialize the process of learning and growing as a person, as if the merit of their education could be determined by grades alone.
Hopefully she goes on to have a successful college career and can move forward with her life in spite of this grossness.
Also fuck Cum, Summa, and Magna Cum Laude awards as well, because they operate on the same idea of rewarding students that were consistently strong students throughout their career while not recognizing how those who struggled at first or dealt with personal tragedy managed to overcome and succeed despite that. While I recognize that they did great work, it felt awful that we gave the Magna Cum Laude students an extra-long standing ovation at my college graduation, when knowing that so many other students had just as much of a challenge to overcome, if not more. These honors focus on the destination over the journey and trivialize the process of learning and growing as a person, as if the merit of their education could be determined by grades alone.
Hopefully she goes on to have a successful college career and can move forward with her life in spite of this grossness.
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