Whoopi Goldberg under fire for saying men have the right to fight back
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ElRenoRaven
Member
Whoopi is right. A slap ok. But once you start hauling off and straight up beating me then it's self defense time.
Hamster Plugin
Member
Slackbladder
Member
I don't get it. You could see whats-his-face defend himself perfectly well without striking his aggressor. So, theoretically, it shows you DON'T have to strike a woman to defend yourself.
Now of course if there was no one there to assist you as the bodyguard there was able to restrain her fairly well, then maybe you may need to use more force. But in my experiance, and I have seen several men vs woman fights on a drunken Friday night, the man does'nt use fists because it's an unfair fight. Now, if the woman is using a bottle or some other weapon and you can't get away then maybe there's no option.
But it still stands, he defended himself without using his fists so where does this idea come from that he is right to use his fists when it is plainly visible that there was no need to?
Now of course if there was no one there to assist you as the bodyguard there was able to restrain her fairly well, then maybe you may need to use more force. But in my experiance, and I have seen several men vs woman fights on a drunken Friday night, the man does'nt use fists because it's an unfair fight. Now, if the woman is using a bottle or some other weapon and you can't get away then maybe there's no option.
But it still stands, he defended himself without using his fists so where does this idea come from that he is right to use his fists when it is plainly visible that there was no need to?
pants
Member
I was taught not to hurt the weak. Women are not weak inherently. If I know that I can defend myself without hurting the other person and without getting hurt myself I have no reason to go on the offensive (though I will still try to either restrain the person or get away from them), whether it be a much smaller and weaker man or a much smaller and weaker woman. If I feel my safety is threatened then I will do whatever I need to to avoid injury. I will not base this on the sex of the assailant but on the threat they pose.
terrdactycalsrock
Member
It might sound silly, cowardly, or just not practical but I would try to avoid a fight with anyone. If Im not just shocked out with adrline (which actually might cause me to hit someone), I would like to think that I would try to restrain them. Of course thats somewhat tricky with a woman, I could see a sexual harassment suit becoming an issue. But I really dont think hitting back is the answer. If you have the presence of mind, walk away. Worst case scenario you restrain
googleplex
Member
To hell with your snark! Logic means I or any person, and man or woman can fight back after being attacked.
I don't feel like this should be viewed as a man vs woman thing.
It should be viewed as an adult vs an adult.
As an adult, you should have enough sense and foresight to know that if you violently and maliciously put your hands on someone, that at the very least you should expect them to defend themselves. Whether you're a woman or not, if you don't want someone going upside your head, don't try to go upside theirs.
Furthermore, the general consensus as to why Men shouldn't hit Women is because men are bigger and stronger. And while that's generally true, my question is this...if as a woman you know your the smaller and weaker person why would you even think it makes sense to physically assault someone who's bigger and stronger than you and could knock you into next week? What do you think is going to happen?
It should be viewed as an adult vs an adult.
As an adult, you should have enough sense and foresight to know that if you violently and maliciously put your hands on someone, that at the very least you should expect them to defend themselves. Whether you're a woman or not, if you don't want someone going upside your head, don't try to go upside theirs.
Furthermore, the general consensus as to why Men shouldn't hit Women is because men are bigger and stronger. And while that's generally true, my question is this...if as a woman you know your the smaller and weaker person why would you even think it makes sense to physically assault someone who's bigger and stronger than you and could knock you into next week? What do you think is going to happen?
BananaSprinkles
Banned
Who is going after Whoopi for this? She's absolutely right.
Jesus Carbomb
From Water into Guinness
You don't really believe this do you?
Him not needing to punch her vs him not having the right to punch her are two different things.
He obviously took mercy on her for whatever reason (sister in law, she was drunk, cameras, etc) and it worked fairly well but had he actually cold clocked her he'd be crucified right now.
If you are being attacked you have the right to defend yourself, period. Obviously what is excessive force will vary from person to person, but not all women have dainty 115 lb frames, and not all men are 6'2 and 205 lbs. Size also becomes less an issue if one person decides to pick up an object. The people criticizing Whoopi for this are morons. Smaller size does not give you carte balance to attack someone without being hit back.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
Defending yourself while being physically attacked my a woman by fighting back, I think is what the message is being said here. "We can hit woman" is not an accurate statement.
KibblesBits
Member
Welp, that's two. I guess I failed at my sarcasm and humor attempt.
CharminUltra
Member
If someone is assaulting you, there is nothing wrong with defending yourself/fighting back until they stop.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
No one is entitled to be violent without consequence in my book. If you are fragile, don't be violent.
Vermillion
Banned
I mean, realistically, another man is probably not getting away with even a slap. A woman, sure.
I'm not sure I'd hit a woman at all, honestly, unless it were life or death.
ChubbyHuggs
Member
I don't even know what I'd do if a man slapped me. I'd be pretty dumbfounded.
Yeah, a slap isn't about doing damage, its for the sting. I'm not really sure what I'd do if anyone slapped me. But when fists start flying, that's a different story.
That'd be the last hit he ever laid on me.
ChosenPredator
Banned
mhm, damn skippy she is.
IsntChrisL
Member
I hate dudes that straight up beat women. They aren't good people.
This is not what we're talking about though.
Yes, men are stronger than women. But guess what? A woman that attacks a man knows this.
Your genitals don't prevent you from learning basic survival instincts. Sheep don't go hunting wolves.
Just like women, men aren't invincible. And if a woman is doing damage that isn't shut down with a simple shove, it is not a man's obligation to become a chick's punching bag because he was born with a dick. He doesn't need to destroy her, he just needs to stop her.
This is not what we're talking about though.
Yes, men are stronger than women. But guess what? A woman that attacks a man knows this.
Your genitals don't prevent you from learning basic survival instincts. Sheep don't go hunting wolves.
Just like women, men aren't invincible. And if a woman is doing damage that isn't shut down with a simple shove, it is not a man's obligation to become a chick's punching bag because he was born with a dick. He doesn't need to destroy her, he just needs to stop her.
The right to defend yourself? Yes
However, I would say that I'm generally a pacifist, so unless I was in danger I wouldn't.
Quite rightly, there are those saying that not all women are fragile etc, but if you actually know how to fight you probably know that you shouldn't; in case you cause serious harm. A friend of mine is quite adept at Wing Chung, but I would I imagine he would avoid using it if possible.
The Jay Z incident however was a family member and was more of a domestic dispute, I can't say I would've done anything more than he did and possibly less
I'm a flight not fight sort of person tbh
However, I would say that I'm generally a pacifist, so unless I was in danger I wouldn't.
Quite rightly, there are those saying that not all women are fragile etc, but if you actually know how to fight you probably know that you shouldn't; in case you cause serious harm. A friend of mine is quite adept at Wing Chung, but I would I imagine he would avoid using it if possible.
The Jay Z incident however was a family member and was more of a domestic dispute, I can't say I would've done anything more than he did and possibly less
I'm a flight not fight sort of person tbh
AbsolutBro
Member
As my southern belle of a grandmother put it, "You are not supposed to hit a lady. But if she hits you first, she's not a lady." Basically a 1950s Mississippi version of "Don't start none, won't be none."
A lack of dong between your legs does not entitle you to assault those that do under some antiquated 'chivalrous' guise of "women are weak, you must protect them".
dorkimoe
Member
shes right. i had a girl attack me once because i tried to stop her driving drunk. I let her hit me about 3 times before i said screw it and hit her back and then she acted like HOW DARE I. Like i was way out of line in defending myself
its ridiculous. dont hit someone if you dont wanna get hit
its ridiculous. dont hit someone if you dont wanna get hit
Mushroomer25
Member
I don't think it's as simple as "If you slap me, I can slap you". There's an undeniable power difference. In the case of one slap (in most situations), she's not going to hurt you. He's very prone to hurt her. It's in everyone's best interest if he realizes his own strength, and doesn't retaliate. Obviously, all this can be reversed in gender in a case where the woman is the stronger individual. If I slap Gina Carano, she will hopefully be wise enough to not break my neck in self defense.
That said, in the case of something like Solange - Jay Z would be totally in the right to engage in some level of self defense. Once she starts posing a legitimate risk to his well being, he's within every moral right to subdue her.
That said, in the case of something like Solange - Jay Z would be totally in the right to engage in some level of self defense. Once she starts posing a legitimate risk to his well being, he's within every moral right to subdue her.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
I teach this to my daughters. Thinking shit is ok to lay hands on a guy and not to expect retribution. Stupidity can get you fucked up and laid out or put in a figure four.
No one has a right to hit anyone unless it's in self defense.
Gender doesn't factor in at all, unless you're a stupid person with only the most topical understanding of what sexism actually means.
Dark Octave
Banned
Whoopi is right. I would draw back from the depths of hell and unleash the rising phoenix if it came to it. My only fear would be a mob of white knights jumping on me for it, knowing good and well she was tap dancing all over my face just a second ago.
Though I'm lucky so far I've never been in that situation and hopefully never am, with anyone. I can't say the same for some of my friends.
Though I'm lucky so far I've never been in that situation and hopefully never am, with anyone. I can't say the same for some of my friends.
Diddy Kong
Banned
She isn't not right
ConradCervantes
Banned
Good on Whoopi. This sexism against men has to stop for the greater good of our fine society.
In Jay Z's case...I think his reaction was pretty fair. He probably felt like he had the situation under control. Had she been in more of a rage, started attacking someone else in the elevator, or pulled out a knife or something... I'm sure he would've gone on the offensive, and been well justified.
This is what needs to be understood when this topic comes up. I wish people need to stop tossing that out as a way of putting words in another's mouth to try and dismiss the topic when ever it's brought up for discussion.
If someone is assaulting you, you have the right to defend yourself no matter if the aggressor is a man or woman. However like all things it comes down to how you respond. It's the same if a man is defending himself against another man. There is a point when one goes from self-defense to being the aggressor and the one being in the wrong. It's easy for the situation to flip. That's where there will be trouble. Being able to defend one's self isn't a licenses to go around beating people up or letting your first response be that you start swinging if it's not called for it. That's just common sense. Getting slapped or pushed doesn't mean you break out the boxing technique or martial arts for example. The other side of the coin though if someone is getting shots in on your head with their fist, using a weapon, then that situation needs to be ended.
Jay Z handled things well. There as no need for him hit back given the situation. It's not like she pulled out a weapon as said.
SneakyStephan
Banned
this
Dark Octave
Banned
You're right. He would be in so much shit right now and wrongfully so, imo.
Nobody should have to endure physical abuse like that but if he's big enough that it isn't really hurting him, he did the right thing in the long run by just taking it. She looks like an abusive idiot and he looks like a calm, collected and mature individual. If she was getting with him and making him black out from the Tyson KOs though, he would have no choice. I would have understood either way.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
I don't get why its controversial to suggest that if you hit someone, there is a distinct possibility you'll get hit back. No one has any right to assault me, if you try I am well within my rights to try and stop you. How each person wants to deal with it is up to them, but to bring up the power difference is stupid. The power difference is not a secret, I'm not going to walk up to some dude who is like 6'5 275 pounds, and start a fight and expect mercy because of the power difference. Don't start none, won't be none.
IMO he didn't need to do more than he did in that situation because he knew it wasn't reasonably going to go much further than it did. Had it been a case where his only effective means of self defense was throwing a punch, or had he felt himself in serious personal danger, he could have swung and been in the right.
But that was just a very small dust up.
Had it been worse and had he been forced to swing on her? Yeah he probably still would have been killed by the news networks, but its an imperfect world.
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