Who's the best professional wrestler ever?
- Thread starter DeaconKnowledge
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dreamghost
Member
It's probably Shawn Michaels or Ric Flair. But man if he could of quelled his demons it could of been Scott Hall.
I liked Missy Hyatt, but only in complete 80s mode.
Then:
A++++
And then now, much worse but not without some upgrades:
Sunny is still the hottest from the 80s, 90s. There's just no comparison.
Trish and Maryse are the HOATs though.
pants
Member
Sunny's fall from grace was especially brutal. Because she fell from SO high...
Karma.
I really believe that, lol.
How Chris never made a big deal out of it blows my mind more than anything, it's far worse than Melina fucking Batista and Morrison knowing all about it. Far, far worse.
Indeed, she's quite a magnificent woman. I've had the pleasure of meeting her and she's one cool cat.SmokyDave would totally buy the Kelly Kelly squatting for 2 hours PPV.
extremelyappropriate.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]
Having given it some thought, yes, yes I would. I'd buy it on blu-ray.
[quote="Vince McMahon, post: 91238617"]Not just the trucks.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/JKSd3eK.jpg
Morrison is such a little a bitch lol, how do you let your girlfriend get fucked by a Filipino man-beast to keep your job?
Even Hardy manned up. And then you end up being future endeavor'd anyway.
Razor pulled off that gimmick like nobody else could, Jesus. It's like he was born to do it.
Please. HBK's best matches come nowhere close to what Misawa was doing. Misawa was on a totally different level to the likes of HBK. Not forgetting the physical punishment he was going under whenever he went into the ring simply because the style used in All Japan was brutally stiff but that didnt stop him producing classic after classic after classic.
Please. Frank Gotch used to stretch out every drunk in the bar, wrestle a bear, then go home and plow his entire farm without a mule.
I really feel like JP/USA are different animals, and while I'm not super well-versed in any JP wrestling and showing my ignorance here, but OP put down mic skills as part of it. I mean, I'm sure there's no "you stole my bulldog so now we have to wrestle" kinds of deep storylines going on, but what's their equivalent of the promo there?
British Monsoon
Member
The promos in Japan are usually either a brief in-ring confrontation where someone makes or accepts a challenge, a backstage interview segment before the show or a press conference afterwards. They're pretty by-the-numbers as far as wrestling promos go, but mic skills do come into play somewhat, even if it seems that natural charisma often takes the upper hand over promos. It's safe to say that, depending on the promotion, a guy at the top of a Japanese wrestling company is certainly able to connect with the audience on the mic in a similar fashion to their western counterparts.
And, yeah, I don't think anyone should be surprised that there are people picking guys like HBK and unequivocally stating they're the best ever. For most fans professional wrestling doesn't exist outside of what's on US TV. Sure, Misawa put on a ridiculous number of top tier matches throughout his career, but 99% of fans don't know who the fuck Misawa is.
Perspicacity
Banned
I'd never heard of him before I started buying Apter mags in the early 90s, and I wasn't hip to tape trading, so all I knew is he was supposed to be really good. But for as much as a PWI 500 or whatever matters, it was impressive to see a guy consistently near the top with little exposure here in the US.
I'll have to hunt down some JP wrestling. Outside of the grocery store death match and the piranha tank death match, I've not seen much. Oh, and that Vader match with his eyeball, but that doesn't count to me.
British Monsoon
Member
Thankfully there's a ton of stuff available on youtube & dailymotion - seek out any of the big Misawa vs Kawada or Misawa vs Kobashi matches, plus the Misawa & Kobashi vs Kawada & Taue tag matches, which are some of the best tag bouts you'll ever see. Other names worth searching; Kensuke Sasaki, Genichiro Tenryu, Jumbo Tsuruta, Jushin Liger, Jun Akiyama, Keiji Mutoh, Shinya Hashimoto, Masahiro Chono, etc.
Here's a random match, one of my favourites;
The Can-Am Express (c) vs Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi - (AJPW 05/25/92)
And a more recent classic;
Hiroshi Tanahashi (c) vs Kazuchika Okada - (NJPW 04/07/13)
Beacuse the styles of American/WWE and all forms of puro are so different, it is really hard to compare someone like Misawa and HBK. They're completely different wrestlers for completely different styles for completely different fans. What makes one great in one country would not make them great in the other.
FallingEdge
Member
While Bootaaay has excellent taste in matches, he has failed to show the 2013 MOTY.
Katsuyori Shibata vs. Tomohiro Ishii - (NJPW 04/08/2013)
Katsuyori Shibata vs. Tomohiro Ishii - (NJPW 04/08/2013)
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
It's up there, but I don't think it's my match of the year. I've got a list, gonna rewatch them all in December. Keep it fresh in my mind.
British Monsoon
Member
That's true enough, even ignoring the language barrier Misawa would have struggled to get over in the WWF as an aging tubby guy who isn't allowed to hit as hard as he wants or use the majority of his move-set because the wrestling style is just so different. Hell, look at how HBK reacted when Vader didn't pull his punches enough for Shawn's liking.
On the flip side, I'm not sure if Shawn would have coped well in Japan. I think it's definitely easier for western wrestlers to make an impact in Japan than it is for Japanese wrestlers to do well in the US, but even so, I don't think Shawn could have competed at the same level in Japan as the likes of Eddie & Benoit.
It's good, but the Invasion Attack main event is still my MOTY for me. I'll need to rewatch everything at some point, but I don't see that changing.
Perspicacity
Banned
Bootaaay who would you say was the Japanese wrestler to have most impact in the States?
British Monsoon
Member
Probably Tajiri. Muta, maybe? Ultimo Dragon had quite a good run in WCW, as well.
You'd have to go back further to find bigger successes though...Masa Saito, Great Kabuki and The Yamaha Brothers come to mind.
bean breath
Member
Lord Tensai?
Love this match. The heat in the building was amazing. Every fan wanted to see the local hero Kikuchi win.
Amazing and so stiff. I love Ishii!! Every single time he goes out there and works so hard leaving everything in the ring.
Masato Tanaka (c) vs Tomohiro Ishii - (NJPW 02/03/13)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x131igf_masato-tanaka-c-vs-tomohiro-ishii-njpw-02-03-13_sport
Another Super Stiff match and a fantastic contest. Ishii is the man!!!
One thing I always found kinda strange in Japan is a western wrestler can speak cut promos in English no problem. Do the majority of Japanese speak English?
I think it was in Dynamite Kid's book where he mentioned Jerry Lawler once going to Japan and after his 1st match he moaned to Dynamite asking why the Japanese opponent wouldnt sell for him to which Dynamite told him he has to hit harder and if they dont sell then hit them hard enough to make them sell. He said Jerry Lawler got a flight back to the USA the next day lol
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Can't say I remember the last stiff guy that that made it big in WWF.
There's only one:
HBK
No charisma
No showmanship
No mic skills
oh and he can't really wrestle.
HBK
No charisma
No showmanship
No mic skills
oh and he can't really wrestle.
Isnt the WWE really toned down now, even more so than before. Moves are banned and things like that?
What was Low Ki like in the WWE? Much different to how he was in ROH?
Yeah, it's pretty bad now. Piledrivers are even banned. It's a big spot now when somebody does one, and usually they get shit for it backstage. WWE Wrestling in 2013 consists of punches, catchphrases, more punches, some punching in the corner, some kicking, a slam or two, and a finisher.
There isn't any psychology to it anymore. It's amplified by the fact that the product sucks elsewhere, so it's not even like you get to see a great match. Guys like Punk, Bryan and Cesaro can only get away with so much, and with so few opportunities to show what they can do.
Razor pulled off that gimmick like nobody else could
Except for this guy you mean
EDIT: Good grief
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdN5JlXJsAE
Perspicacity
Banned
Bullshit. Not just the bolded, but Jesus do I wish people would stop using that term. There's a years worth of Shield matches that say psychology is alive and well in wrestling today.
The only problem from a wrestling perspective is that at the top of the card Cena (also Sheamus, Del Rio, and up until recently Orton) are only doing "their" match. Even Punk and Bryan are guilty of leaning on their 5MODs pretty heavily. The thing is, this is nothing new. Hogan did it, Rock did it, Austin did it, even Bret and Shawn fell into the exact same patterns outside of their memorable matches.
No one actually gets in shit for doing "banned" moves, they get in shit for being reckless. Wrestlers are getting sick of seeing their colleagues die before they're 60 so yeah they are working safer. This is not a bad thing and doesn't hurt the product unless you're twelve, in which case just buy some CZW tapes and get your "psychology" fix.
EDIT: Didn't realize I was talking to a ghost. Whatevs.
RabidTanooki
Member
Ultimate Warrior, of course.
Banned but whatever. This is incorrect. WWE matches have had far, far more psychology in the PG era than they did in the Attitude Era. And there is a lot more actual wrestling and long/good TV matches. People seem to forget that TV matches were straight up garbage in 1998-1999. You didn't get good matches on TV during the Attitude Era. You got good moments, good promos, and good angles, but you definitely weren't getting good TV matches until Angle/Benoit/Guerrero/Jericho were becoming main players in the mid card. I fully support the safer in ring style WWE has adopted. Not only is it keeping guys healthier in the long run, but it also makes it a big deal when you get a big spot or bump. Everyone became so desensitized to everything by the end of the Attitude Era. The in ring style absolutely needed a cool down and there have been far superior matches in the last 4-5 years than in 1998-1999. Guys like Daniel Bryan, Punk, and Cesaro wouldn't have been having awesome matches on TV back then.
No one bought into him being a bad ass and they laughed at him when he didn't want to job, so he was completely different. In ring, he really wasn't toned down very much. He also wasn't around long enough to do much, though.
Hipster Cthulhu
Banned
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Best dancer is Alex Wright, hands down
Ninja Scooter
Member
Bravo. Lets not forget that were it not for HBK, the WWE probably would have tanked if it were forced to be carried by that greasy haired, jort wearing Canadian.
After Misawa died and Kobashi retired my interest in wrestling went on the wane but Tbh I'd been losing interest for a number of years before that. Up until a few months ago I only checked certain segments for Cesaro, Bryan and Punk. Everything else just wasn't worth watching.
But I've recently started watching puro again. Watched Tanahashi/Okada and immediately had to view the other matches in that series; they were that good. I have to start watching more.
But I've recently started watching puro again. Watched Tanahashi/Okada and immediately had to view the other matches in that series; they were that good. I have to start watching more.
He may be the best technical dancer, but Dusty's dancing always had more soul.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
It's SO GOOD! Hope to see your thoughts on Wrestle Kingdom early 2014! So excited!
The One and Done
Member
The Rock
Brett Hart
Shawn Michaels
Steve Austin
The Undertaker
My top 5
Brett Hart
Shawn Michaels
Steve Austin
The Undertaker
My top 5
Im looking forward to Nakamura/Tanahashi. Before my hiatus from wrestling they were two favourites of mine.
I'm also interested in seeing Prince Devitt. I'm Irish myself, so I'm curious to see how good he actually is. Afaik we have very few top quality wrestlers, in fact he might be the only one. Haven't seen him wrestle that often but I've heard good things about him and his opponent.
Been youtubing Okada matches too. He's looks a very good wrestler and I enjoy his finisher. Looks so simple but and can be used in any number of ways.
Were wrestlers dying because of the work or was that more down to drug and alcohol abuse for years and years.
In Japan they have worked a more physical harder hitting style for decades and wrestling related deaths have been rare.
Amazing series and although I don’t rank it as high as the Misawa v Kawada series its still top quality. They manage to do enough to make the matches different and Tanahashi really is special. He can have an awesome match with pretty much anyone.
I havent seen the Flair/Steamboat stuff but I know Meltzer sayd Tanahashi/Okada has surpassed that.
Rumours are Devitt will be going to WWE next year which I hope isn’t true as I really like him and won’t get to see him if he goes there. My only issue with Devitt in the last 12 months as his since he became heel there has been a bit to much BS with his matches. Too much interference!!
Best drop kick in the game. The rise of Okada has been quite staggering. He was in TNA going nowhere, comes back to Japan and has an awful match on the biggest show of the year and then after that he just became amazing.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
What's their schedule like? the WWF schedule was (is? don't follow it much anymore) brutal.
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