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[I collect VHS tapes]

What particularly confuses me is how people often conflate this with quality.

You see so much discussion surrounding Steam CCU and sales on this forum. At the same time, people are quick to talk crap about things like the Billboard Hot 100, and for good reason. The masses tend to have shit taste. Very rarely do we see a correlation between film/music popularity and quality. On the contrary, I think many would argue the most popular musicians are some of the worse.

I think most people here would think it is silly to say Taylor Swift is an amazing, talented musician just because she sells a lot of records and is insanely popular. Or that Twilight is a fantastic film series due to its popularity. But you see similar arguments being made here all the time.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

You do realize it's all subjective?

 

[Crayon]

You've never done it?

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

You do realize it's all subjective?

Couldn't agree more

 

[bender]

Numbers are interesting. Gaming is our hobby so naturally sales or lack thereof will draw interest. And with any statistics, people will use it to color their narrative.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

What particularly confuses me is how people often conflate this with quality.

You see so much discussion surrounding Steam CCU and sales on this forum. At the same time, people are quick to talk crap about things like the Billboard Hot 100, and for good reason. The masses tend to have shit taste. Very rarely do we see a correlation between film/music popularity and quality. On the contrary, I think many would argue he most popular musicians are some of the worse.

I think most people here would think it is silly to say Taylor Swift is an amazing, talented musician just because she sells a lot of records and is insanely popular. Or that Twilight is a fantastic film series do its popularity. But you see similar arguments being made here all the time.

Cause people are obsessed with popularity everywhere not just games. Why? Because they think that if a lot of people like or do something that it clearly means it's the optimal option. Same reason retard penguins jump off ledges when they another retard penguins jump off, we are a social species.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

No idea.

A lot of gems don’t get very popular.

 

[Raven117]

It sure was better when the whole thing wasn’t as popular

 

[Varteras]

Because my street cred depends on it.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Maybe people's ignorance is too focused... It's like Fortnite, everyone plays it... But it's actually a bunch of commercial bullshit. That's why I like rare, hard-to-find, or cult video games.

Or even the taboo of video games... It's mostly said by ignorant and intolerant people.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Numbers are interesting. Gaming is our hobby so naturally sales or lack thereof will draw interest. And with any statistics, people will use it to color their narrative.

And in Xbox case, sales and performance will directly affect their 3rd party output on Playstation and Switch.

So it's not like it's irrelevant.

 

[The_Mike]

People wants to justify their taste in games.

If the thing you like is popular and sell well then it validates your opinion as the best.

Tbh GAF is the only place I really notice it.
And in woke discussions on steam.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

And in Xbox case, sales and performance will directly affect their 3rd party output on Playstation and Switch.

So it's not like it's irrelevant.

Again, couldn't agree more. Sales are hugely important because they inform what future games will be made.

Having said that, I don't buy that they're an indicator of quality. If anything, quality is largely subjective, as you pointed out.

 

[Danjin44]

I personally don’t give rat ass if the game popular or not, I like what I like….in fact there are many games I like but majority of GAF hates it.

But I imagine this popularity charts are useful on MP focus games since those type of games are heavily relies on people interest in order keep the game alive.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

I personally don’t give rat ass if the game popular or not, I like what I like….in fact there are many games I like but majority of GAF hates it.

But I imagine this popularity charts are useful on MP focus games since those type of games are heavily relies on people interest in order keep the game alive.

What games Danji??

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Having said that, I don't buy that they're a indicator of quality. If anything, quality is largely subjective, as you pointed out.

Ultimately they're two different thing (popularity and quality), but often there is a correlation.

 

[Danjin44]

What games Danji??

Well recent example is Monster Hunter Wilds, I’m loving that game but to majority of GAF it’s worse game ever created.

 

[bender]

I personally don’t give rat ass if the game popular or not, I like what I like….in fact there are many games I like but majority of GAF hates it.

But I imagine this popularity charts are useful on MP focus games since those type of games are heavily relies on people interest in order keep the game alive.

 

[BennyBlanco]

No idea.

A lot of gems don’t get very popular.

Very true.

 

[nemiroff]

I for one don't mind people enjoying something I don't.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Well recent example is Monster Hunter Wilds, I’m loving that game to majority of GAF it’s worse game ever created.

I think in Gaf's case, a lot has to do with a specific demographic just disliking what's popular.

They're kinda like the hipsters of gaming.

 

[Laptop1991]

I think it's also because the industry is conning people with PR to hide real sales data to sell and make more money off games, they are not being honest about it for various reason's, claiming games are really successful when they are not, so Steam CCU gives a true indication of likely sales data, after all they just want more profit in the end.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

if a game is popular, you get more of it and it’s likely to inform broader trends. If a shit game becomes popular, the knock-on effect of that is a negative.

That’s why.

 

[Hookshot]

Becomes sometimes it's obvious something will flop, sometimes it's surprising what succeeds, and sometimes you have to wonder how something sells millions on one platform and nothing on another.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

I for one don't mind people enjoying something I don't.

if you see trends you dislike being elevated and topping charts, it will impact you eventually because, as already noted in this thread, sales dictate what future games will be made

Take a recent example: FromSofts new multiplayer games. if they somehow manage to sell a billion copies of their multiplayer games, they may be more inclined to not focus on the single player experience as much. for those who prefer the single player focused games by From, other people's purchase of From games will directly impact them.

I appreciate that you want everyone to be able to enjoy what they like, just know that when it comes to popularity, what others play can directly impact you

 

[rm082e]

What particularly confuses me is how people often conflate this with quality.

You see so much discussion surrounding Steam CCU and sales on this forum. At the same time, people are quick to talk crap about things like the Billboard Hot 100, and for good reason. The masses tend to have shit taste. Very rarely do we see a correlation between film/music popularity and quality. On the contrary, I think many would argue he most popular musicians are some of the worse.

I think most people here would think it is silly to say Taylor Swift is an amazing, talented musician just because she sells a lot of records and is insanely popular. Or that Twilight is a fantastic film series do its popularity. But you see similar arguments being made here all the time.

For me personally, it's one interesting metric out of many. It particularly interests me when I see a developer making choices that seem out of touch with what most gamers want, but the individuals at that developer are ideologically motivated. I like to see how those games perform from a sales perspective as it's the most direct feedback they're going to get about the decisions they made.

In terms of what I play, I don't care if games sell well or not, are popular or not, or other people agree with my opinion or not. I like what I like and that's that. Sales and popularity discussions are just interesting news stories to follow and armchair commentate on.

 

[balls of snow]

Validation and insecurities that goes beyond the hobby.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well recent example is Monster Hunter Wilds, I’m loving that game but to majority of GAF it’s worse game ever created.

Name a few that isn't MH Wilds. The game is fine. It's just a very easy Monster Hunter game with QoL out the ass. Division among fans was bound to happen.

 

[59285ktahyha]

For multiplayer games popularity is actually really important, you don't wanna buy a game that's dead.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

depends on the context.

If we are talking about a game being successful or not, its popularity is kind of a big deal.

 

[Danjin44]

Name a few that isn't MH Wilds. The game is fine. It's just a very easy Monster Hunter game with QoL out the ass. Division among fans was bound to happen.

We had this conversation with you before but to me base World and Rise was also pretty easy.

It just I have been through this hate cycle with World and Rise before and just I can no longer can be bothered anymore.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

It's validation, justification, confirmation bias, tribalism etc.
It's not enough to simply like or not like something, there's a need to be able to point to something that supports your view on the thing.

 

[Luipadre]

The obsession over steam ccu numbers is a cancer in this day and age. I wish steam just hide it

 

[Baemono]

People wants to justify their taste in games.

Pretty much

 

[Kacho]

Validation is part of being an enthusiast. Same reason we obsess about resolution and performance.

 

[tr1p1ex]

people want to breed with the best mate possible. so they have to discredit all competition. including their fellow gaming nerds.

 

[Killer8]

People obsess over it because they think it validates their whole world view. "See?? Everyone thinks the same as meee!!"

 

[bender]

I had this conversation with you before but to me base World and Rise was pretty easy to.

It just have been through this hate cycle with World and Rise and just I can no longer can be bothered anymore.

It's sold more than 10 million copies and people don't think it's the worst game ever, but rather the worst in the series and disappointing for a lot of reasons. It's like Dark Souls 2 in that even a bad Souls games is better than most games released these days and will have a lot of redeeming qualities.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Well recent example is Monster Hunter Wilds, I’m loving that game but to majority of GAF it’s worse game ever created.

I like it a lot, because it has cinematic effects and the power of the RE Engine.



The facial animation is great

 

[Danjin44]

It's sold more than 10 million copies and people don't think it's the worst game ever, but rather the worst in the series and disappointing for a lot of reasons. It's like Dark Souls 2 in that even a bad Souls games is better than most games released these days and will have a lot of redeeming qualities.

What can I say I personally liking the game a lot and I replayed World/Iceborne before Wilds came out and still not disappointed at all….in fact there are things in Wilds I like more than World, especially the combat….but that just my taste.

 

[bender]

What can I say I personally liking the game a lot and I replayed World/Iceborne before Wilds came out and still not disappointed at all….in fact there are things in Wilds I like more than World, especially the combat….but that just my taste.

The combat would be one of those redeeming qualities. I think you just have a problem seeing the forest for the trees in this situation and are being hyperbolic.

 

[MagiusNecros]

It's sold more than 10 million copies and people don't think it's the worst game ever, but rather the worst in the series and disappointing for a lot of reasons. It's like Dark Souls 2 in that even a bad Souls games is better than most games released these days and will have a lot of redeeming qualities.

Like DD2. Wilds is among what I would call one of the "best worst games ever" if that makes any sense.

 

[Generic]

My favourite game is the most popular game ever (Fortnite)

 

[bender]

Like DD2. Wilds is among what I would call one of the "best worst games ever" if that makes any sense.

I get where you are coming from but I'd save that term for the likes of Deadly Premonition or Earth Defense Force.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Like DD2. Wilds is among what I would call one of the "best worst games ever" if that makes any sense.

Is MHW another half-assed game with lots of wasted potential due to lack of content?

Damn. If that's the case I hope Capcom stops releasing games close to the end of their fiscal year because it's a shame when a game plays like a dream but is as deep as a puddle.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Is MHW another half-assed game with lots of wasted potential due to lack of content?

Damn. If that's the case I hope Capcom stops releasing games close to the end of their fiscal year because it's a shame when a game plays like a dream but is as deep as a puddle.

MHW is in "Early Access". We would have to wait 2 years before you can play the whole game. DD2 ends abruptly and RE7 and RE8 had DLC that may as well should of been part of the full game.

A problem with modern Capcom is Streamlined Remake syndrome. They up the graphics and simplify the gameplay but everything else suffers as a result.

 

[TintoConCasera]

MHW is in "Early Access". We would have to wait 2 years before you can play the whole game. DD2 ends abruptly and RE7 and RE8 had DLC that may as well should of been part of the full game.

At least MH bros will get their content updates. All DD bros got was an easy mode (why?) and a .png overlay for the annyversary.

DMC fans are in for a rude awakening when they realize what happened with Itsuno. Although I don't know, maybe C-Lovers will take care of that.

A problem with modern Capcom is Streamlined Remake syndrome. They up the graphics and simplify the gameplay but everything else suffers as a result.

Too many remakes too. I hope the new Onimusha game is good, otherwise Capcom would have fallen from one of my favorite devs to one of the worst in just a matter of a few years.

 

[Ceadeus]

Once you get to discover underground music, you never let it go and discover a whole new meaning to talent. It's the same for video games.

Yes Dark Souls is legendary, but with each new game, from software become little bit more creatively bankrupt. Just like the last smashing pumpkins album isn't nearly as good as their first.

That's totally normal imo. There was never gonna be a another Ninja Gaiden as good as 1&2 , there was never gonna be another FF7, another MGS etc...

Once you peak, the only other way after, is down. But the next talented artist comes next and shows inspiration from previous generation.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Too many remakes too. I hope the new Onimusha game is good, otherwise Capcom would have fallen from one of my favorite devs to one of the worst in just a matter of a few years.

Given it's already less serious then other Onimusha titles and has nothing to do with the original storyline...it's a soft reboot. The emphasis on Parry is not a good sign. It's gonna be one of those press A for Awesome kind of games.

Remakes are just a sign that a person or group is out of ideas and needs to success coast to stay relevant. Capcom is showing a pattern and it's not something I'm excited about.

I think if the goal is to make these high fidelity short Arcade style games then they should at most only be $40...instead of $70+.

And for games like Monster Hunter there needs to be a clear and concise roadmap. When it comes to the content updates....stuff like Lagiacrus was datamined weeks beforehand so it very much is cut content. In the same vein DD2 was also datamined and we saw DLC stuff referring to Tower of the Moon and the connections we can draw from their being no Moon present in DD2.

--------

I will comment on the topic though. For some reason people have to treat every game as an MMO and if it doesn't have an astronomical concurrent player count they are all lol game sucks. I just don't understand that at all.

 

[Humdinger]

This isn't anything new, though. People have always flocked to what is popular. They are sheep.