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[Durask]

Actually, to challenge the first post - where is the proof that "race relations have deteriorated"? Have they?

 

[Broseybrose]

Actually, to challenge the first post - where is the proof that "race relations have deteriorated"? Have they?

This is a great point.

In the media all you hear and see is the deterioration of race relations. However, on an individual to individual level, people seem to get along just as well as they ever did. So we have to look at the problem on a larger scale.

Obama was elected and a small minority of racists opposed him.

Trump was elected and for over a year now, every single day on every single news channel all you hear is how incompetent/racist he is. It is all blown way out of proportion and younger people tend to get swept up by the misinformation.

So the media is mainly to blame, IMO. Why would they do this? That goes back to something someone posted earlier, which is "maintain social division in order to maintain class division."

Its just a theory, but at least its a dim hint of an explanation for the way things are now. Better than nothing.

I honestly believe that the radical left has infiltrated and taken over media, universities, and (before Trump) politics, which essentially the cause of all our current societal problems. We need to shift back to the sensible center. And I believe that shift is occurring. Unfortunately, right now, its more of a backlash, but the Overton window is shifting right. Which means back towards center... and center is where sanity lies.

 

[pramod]

How is it race baiting for people to get excited over a movie? That's seems like quite a stretch to me.

My take on it:

1) You might want to read up on the historical significance of the Black Panther character. First black superhero in mainstream American comics. Finally getting a big budget Marvel film has the same weight behind it to a lot of people.

2) Do you really not see the difference between Hancock or Blade and Black Panther? Black Panther is a celebration of a powerful, wealthy and technologically advanced African nation. That culture is essential and fundamental to the character and the comic. There's nothing African at all about Hancock or Blade, and neither really even focuses on any unique facet of African-American culture either. They're superheroes who happen to be black. They're not exactly meant to be inspiring or role models in any way.

Blade was a big budget Marvel movie too. But I agree that Black Panther's background being from Africa makes him different, but I'm not sure exactly why that would be such a big deal. Wakanda is a fictional place, it's not even real. I mean if black Americans are getting excited over some fictional depiction of a powerful African nation, it not only shows the sad state of race relations here and tells me a bit about their psyche, it's as if most of them don't feel proud of America or don't even feel they are true Americans. I mean, they are already part of the most powerful and advanced country on earth...America. Blacks are citizens of America just as whites are. ...but seems like they don't feel that way. It's sad that they need a movie about a fictional place to feel proud of themselves.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Black Panther is wish fulfillment, and timely. It's many things, and it all adds to the excitement. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.../black-panther-african-american-fans.amp.html

 

[Deleted member 12837]

Blade was a big budget Marvel movie too.

Eh...

Marvel in 1998 isn't Marvel in 2018 lol. Black Panther is estimated to make more in its opening weekend than Blade made over its entire theatrical run. It also had a $200 million budget compared to the $45 million of Blade.

Not to mention, Blade had what, like 2-3 black stars in it? Black Panther has a majority black cast, a black director, and a soundtrack comprised entirely of some of the most popular and successful black artists.

But I agree that Black Panther's background being from Africa makes him different, but I'm not sure exactly why that would be such a big deal. Wakanda is a fictional place, it's not even real. I mean if black Americans are getting excited over some fictional depiction of a powerful African nation, it not only shows the sad state of race relations here and tells me a bit about their psyche, it's as if most of them don't feel proud of America or don't even feel they are true Americans.

Yes it's fictional, which is part of the draw. It's an imagining of a part of Africa that wasn't torn apart by colonization and exploited for its people, land and resources.

It's not just Black Americans that are excited about the movie. It's worldwide anticipation.

You can be both proud of America and also proud of your cultural heritage, wherever you came from. What's great about American is that you don't have to throw away the parts that you bring with you from wherever you came.

I mean, they are already part of the most powerful and advanced country on earth...America.

That's pretty vague. In some ways that's true, in other ways incorrect, and in many ways largely subjective.

Blacks are citizens of America just as whites are. ...but seems like they don't feel that way. It's sad that they need a movie about a fictional place to feel proud of themselves.

What makes you say that? Not sure where you're getting that at all. I haven't gotten that impression from anyone I've spoken with, and haven't read anything indicating there's a strong sentiment like that.

 

[Ke0]

IIRC didn't the stats behind stop and frisk show that police disproportionally stopped black Americans and the police would turn up nothing vast majority of stops, and when they did stop white Americans, they were much more likely to have something like drugs?

 

[mckmas8808]

BTW the Black Panther movie is another example of what I'm talking about. It's a super hero movie that somehow has become on social media another huge milestone in social justice. But I really don't see what the big hoopla is. This isn't the first movie starring a black superhero. Back in the 90's no one would care if a black guy like Will Smith or Wesley Snipes starred in all those superhero movies or we had a movie all about black people. It would just be another movie. But everything these days every single one of these movies has become an "event" and has become about race or social justice. Why do we have so much race pimping and race baiting compared to 10-15 years ago?

First of all NOBODY looked at those two movies as "black super hero" movies. One was a super strong flying dude that was a drunk that happened to save people and the other was viewed as a vampire slayer.

Second, most people aren't viewing Black Panther as a social justice movie. But it does feel good to see a movie with mostly black people in it where the super hero is rich, fast, powerful, strong, and well respected. There's NEVER been a black super hero on the big screen that has all of those like T'Challa and I know you realize that.

Finally, why is it that when black people are excited and proud of seeing a movie like Black Panther means that we are "race pimping" or "race baiting"?

 

[mckmas8808]

IIRC didn't the stats behind stop and frisk show that police disproportionally stopped black Americans and the police would turn up nothing vast majority of stops, and when they did stop white Americans, they were much more likely to have something like drugs?

Absolutely it did. They made up some wack reason why that didn't matter and why it didn't mean the amount of stop and frisk should go up with white people in NYC.

 

[BANGS]

Absolutely it did. They made up some wack reason why that didn't matter and why it didn't mean the amount of stop and frisk should go up with white people in NYC.

The real reason is because it's unconstitutional and it would only be a matter of time before some rich snooty guys got frisked and made hell for the police department...

 

[Big4reel]

Apparently minorities can`t be racist against white people now. The continued demonization and self loathing of white people probably caused this.

 

[krazen]

Blade was a big budget Marvel movie too. But I agree that Black Panther's background being from Africa makes him different, but I'm not sure exactly why that would be such a big deal. Wakanda is a fictional place, it's not even real. I mean if black Americans are getting excited over some fictional depiction of a powerful African nation, it not only shows the sad state of race relations here and tells me a bit about their psyche, it's as if most of them don't feel proud of America or don't even feel they are true Americans. I mean, they are already part of the most powerful and advanced country on earth...America. Blacks are citizens of America just as whites are. ...but seems like they don't feel that way. It's sad that they need a movie about a fictional place to feel proud of themselves.

Because representation matters. In general hollywood loves to pump out images of african americans in the past in extremely dire straights: slavery, jim crow, etc. Africa itself is portrayed as this weird alien planet where everyone is backwards, naked with ancient weapondry...and this is supposedly leftist socially concious media.

Onto your point on “They don’t feel like real Americans”. History matters and it kinda sucks that by and large white America can look back fondly on the past and the ‘good times’. Where my parents can look back and remember when they werent allowed to use the same water fountain, lol. Louis CK (rip) had a great bit on this subject.



There’s deeper conversation that wouldnt be fruitful in current neogaf where racism is black peoples fault (lol) where if the return to african roots and traditions are being done right (one can argue that the unintentional but wrong mishmosh of distinct african societies is offensive when many af-americans try to live their roots). But overall a movie about an even mythical place where people of a darker hue are thriving while the President of the US says they are shithole counties, etc, its not hard to see the appeal.

Also, nobody gets all in a tissy when 3rd/4th generation Italians, Irish, Germans throw a parade, but when Af-Americans celebrate its suddenly, “See, I told you so!” The line between white guilt and white hate is razor thin

 

[prag16]

There’s deeper conversation that wouldnt be fruitful in current neogaf where racism is black peoples fault (lol)

Don't do this. Nobody is really claiming this. Bringing more nuance to the issue as has been done here doesn't mean anyone flat out thinks "racism is black people's fault". And even if there were a VERY small handful of posters who seem to chiefly blame black people (and I don't think this is even the case), this doesn't indicate a new consensus on the matter.

 

[krazen]

Don't do this. Nobody is really claiming this. Bringing more nuance to the issue as has been done here doesn't mean anyone flat out thinks "racism is black people's fault". And even if there were a VERY small handful of posters who seem to chiefly blame black people (and I don't think this is even the case), this doesn't indicate a new consensus on the matter.

I just threw it in as a footnote of where the discussion could go as far as issues Af-Ameican co-opting African imagery but this isn’t the time nor place, rest of the post tried to covered the reply though and that can be ignored.

 

[pramod]

First of all NOBODY looked at those two movies as "black super hero" movies.

Exactly. So why is it these days any movie with mostly black actors or in a lead role is suddenly newsworthy and countless media and social media having to point out its "blackness"?

 

[Vicetrailia]

Exactly. So why is it these days any movie with mostly black actors or in a lead role is suddenly newsworthy and countless media and social media having to point out its "blackness"?

This is a special movie compared to other black films. You've been told why a few times already.

Your typical black romance comedy isn't touted like this one. This is more special than Django.

 

[David___]

Exactly. So why is it these days any movie with mostly black actors or in a lead role is suddenly newsworthy and countless media and social media having to point out its "blackness"?

Black Panther in particular is going to be a huge blockbuster event made by Marvel that's going to be part of their MCU going forward.

 

[TheMikado]

The real reason is because it's unconstitutional and it would only be a matter of time before some rich snooty guys got frisked and made hell for the police department...

That's not what unconstitutional means. Unless you're saying that constitutional rights only matter when there is money involved.

 

[TheGraykid]

Exactly. So why is it these days any movie with mostly black actors or in a lead role is suddenly newsworthy and countless media and social media having to point out its "blackness"?

Do you know how many primarily black casted movies there are that you don't hear about?

 

[BANGS]

That's not what unconstitutional means. Unless you're saying that constitutional rights only matter when there is money involved.

I don't believe I attempted to define what unconstitutional means in that post, I just made the statement that the law is unconstitutional...

And yes, constitutional rights are often ignored until money and/or enough people get involved. Unfortunately stop and frisk is very effective, or at least is touted as such, so people tolerate it's violation. Similar to the Patriot act and plenty of other unconstitutional laws...

 

[TheMikado]

On the Topic of "Black Panther" and "Wakanda". This is actually one of the most disappointing concepts for me because it perpetuates a lot of stereotypes.

1) Homogeneous tribal culture. The cultures of Africa of incredibly diverse and it the emphasis on a lot Westernized thinking of what it means to be African is disappointed. I do think this we fixed a bit recently but I would need to see the movie to determine if it a generalized western view.
2) The idea that Africa nations have traditionally been poor and under developed. Wakanda stands as this solely economic and technological boon. It seems it is attempting to state African countries can be just as technologically advanced and wealthy as other western cultures. My problem with this is using western measurements of technology as proof of "advancement". I would prefer to see Wakada as a purely energy manipulation society where their technology looks nothing like Western culture due to a deeper understanding of metaphysics and mathematics.
3) Similar to the previous point. It makes African success appear as an exception when the truth is African nations have been incredible successful even GDP wise until after 1000 AD

Even through much of the early 1900s Africa beats out Asian in GDP

Stagnation in education due to diversity of language, culture, and distrust of open trade with western cultures has lead African countries to fall behind, however Africa has always been an economic power house.
All that being said, my criticism of Wakanda is that, rather create a fictionally advanced counties. Why not take Uganda re-imagine it slightly and use some of their iconic scenery similar to how we use NYC in Marvel comics. All that being said Black Panther does look pretty good from the trailers and I wasn't particularly interested in it until I saw them.

 

[GamingEnthusiast]

This is just a theory.
I think our current polarized climate in regards to everything, be it race, gender, immigration, etc...
Is artificially created to divide, distract and pit us against each other.
While we fight constantly about the things we can't change like race and sex, there's a massive rise in income inequality, creating the one true divide, one that can be changed, the class divide.

I think there is a vested corporate interest, as well as one for many billionaires to keep things this way. These are the people and corporations that fund most political campaigns, regardless of party, and as such when class is off limits as part of the political discourse, social issues are put on a megaphone.

TL;DR:
Social divide is beneficial to maintain a class divide.

Real Talk.

 

[old]

I’m not going to excuse Americans entirely. They, we, have a lot of blame. But I don’t think Russia’s “chaos seeding” strategy of internet trolls began and ended with the 2016 election. A lot of the division is fueled by what people see and hear on social media. The very platforms Russian trolls are known to infiltrate.

So offline we need to do more to extend empathy and opportunity to each other, and especially work towards acknowledging and addressing our privileges and prejudices.

Online we need to be skeptical that the account posting memes designed to make you hate/fear your fellow countrymen may well be a foreign agent fomenting division and unrest.