dreamcastmaster
Banned
The OP left out, fear that anything from an ever growing list of chemicals can kill them in a product and fear of getting sued.
Why does America have a culture of fear?
- Thread starter Tabris
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timetokill
Banned
Do you want us to explain where human fear comes from?
Or do you just want a gun thread and you're beating around the bush?
You haven't really established how America is unique in its "fear" or that gun ownership is fear-induced.
Or do you just want a gun thread and you're beating around the bush?
You haven't really established how America is unique in its "fear" or that gun ownership is fear-induced.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Or history if someone has experienced such in the past.
Exactly.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I'm sure you could, just like Racism isn't just about fear. Sometimes hate is just that, hate. But there is no more a culture of fear in American then there is elsewhere. I'm not afraid to walk out my door every day, and I reckon the majority of people who work outside are either. It's just conflated due to negative news stories being the main source of information for not only GAF, but how news networks get hits. It really is that simple.
Maklershed
Member
Same here in the US. Its just that the Tea Party (who are a tiny minority) got a lot of exposure via Fox News and the Internet. Most people in the US are happy, friendly people who do not own guns (except to hunt). Most people in the US do not fear the government.
The xenophobia by Europeans and Australians on this message board lately is shocking and disappointing.
But it's not just a case of negative new stories. It's a case of statistics.
I keep using guns as an example as it's one of the ultimate expressions of fear. Wanting to own a gun to protect yourself and your family due to fear of others. And America leads all other modern nations in this by a great margin.
Once again, statistics show otherwise in comparison. Statistics show a lot of Americans own firearms to protect themselves and their family. That is a result of fear.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Anxiety drives action. Augment Fear to induce anxiety, to manipulate thoughts and action. It is a great weapon in the wrong hands, like Fox News.
timetokill
Banned
People in the US generally don't expect something bad to happen when they walk down the street either, dude. I sure as hell don't.
You're projecting or misinformed. at the very least you need to prove that people own guns as an expression of fear.
Does your country have locks on your doors? If so, why is your country so fearful, dude? Why is your culture so fear-ridden?
teruterubozu
Member
But for many Americans they do not associate guns with fear. They see it as an expression of their freedom, like motorcycles and barbecue grills.
You could say that is the problem though. We don't fear guns enough.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
You keep using guns as an example because you somehow think it's helping you prove there is a culture of fear. Again, if someone shoots someone else, very rarely is it because a person was legitimately fearful.
Like I said, if you wanted to make a gun topic you should've made a gun topic. Otherwise you're not really proving to me that there is a substantial culture of fear in my Country. I'm not going to wake up in a cold sweat, consider not going to work because of this permeating fear, and be a nervous wreck as I go to work because of this culture of fear you're so keen on attaching to us.
People using guns as an ultimate expressions of fear, lol.
You keep saying that, but you can't really prove that except what you inject into it. As an American I can tell you guns are seen as empowerment. Not fear.
Maklershed
Member
A lot of people who own guns a) own it because they hunt with it b) don't sit in their houses or walking around waiting to use it, fearing someone is gonna get them. Most people who own guns prob forget they even own one.
OP I really wish you would come to the US and see how life really is here.
OP I really wish you would come to the US and see how life really is here.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
So why are you attaching statistics to your abstract argument about fear? Like I said, your statistics do not prove anything about fear. One thing doesn't mean another. If you wanted to make a thread about the US and guns, then you should've made a thread about the US and guns.
teruterubozu
Member
"Protection" these days though, also means "protecting ma rights" for many gun-toting Americans. And it's not a very concrete concept.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
I'd be afraid to if every other person outside had a gun
Mammoth Jones
Member
For multiple people debating my gun point. Here was a national US study on reason to own a gun.
How is that not fear related?
I own a gun for home protection. It's not fear it's just simply being cognizant of the reality of the crime rate in my particular area. Same reason I use a home alarm. Or wear a seat belt. But that doesn't mean I'm afraid of driving...
You're trying to paint a very nuanced subject with a broad brush.
How does it not prove fear? If close to half of gun owners, in the modern nation with the largest gun ownership per capita, have them for protection
I am using guns as a backup to my debate argument, but taking guns out of the equation - There is a higher percentage of Americans that believe they need protection, then all other modern nations. This is why I think America has a culture of fear that isn't as prevalent as other modern nations.
There was a category for rights though if you read the statistics. 2nd amendment / Constitutional right was at 2%.
For multiple people debating my gun point. Here was a national US study on reason to own a gun.
How is that not fear related?
Now show one for "why you lock your door at night". Taking what they believe are logical steps to prevent potential catastrophes isn't evidence of a "culture of fear". Whether the US does have that or not.
There are many European nations and rural areas in Canada and Australia where it's not common to lock your door. Funny I tried googling some statistics - couldn't find anything great in first search, but 3rd listing in my google search had the following comment:
I don't agree. Racism is about stereotypes. It happens to be the case that the stereotype for young black men is that they are violent, so that elicits fear. For East Asians the modern stereotypes are things like the kids being good in school and the women being obedient to their partners. It's still racism, but there is no culture of fear around it.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
How do you prove fear? I want to know what process you went to come to the conclusion that 'Owning guns=Fear'. Heck if you're doing that, I bet I can make an argument that owning a Television=Fear, maybe use a 'I need to constantly watch news to know what's happening' as an argument.
And define higher percentage of Americans wanting protection over, say, Germans wanting protection from the amount Refugees and reinstating border control? The UK wanting protection against Migrants? Greeks wanting economical protection?
Exactly how do you gauge that an Americans want of protection is greater than another countries want of protection, and thus come to the conclusion that there is a greater amount of fear in the US than elsewhere?
teruterubozu
Member
My neighborhood doesn't lock their doors. I live in rural America. People rarely lock their cars here too. Hollywood is not America, man.
How is this not fear? You are afraid of being robbed. You are implementing protection out of your fear of being robbed. There's a lot of other countries with higher minor crime indexes that don't have the same amount of gun ownership for protection as the US. That means even though they may have higher chance of that minor crime occurring against them, they are less fearful of that crime so they don't feel the need to own a gun to protect themselves.
Take the 2 images I posted and you get the ratio there. Amount of gun ownership per 100k citizens and amount of gun ownership for protection. There's literally not enough guns in Germany per 100k citizens to account for the number of guns used for protection in the US per 100k citizens.
Breezy, you have Tabris analyzed in the wrong direction. He doesn't want to make a gun thread. He made an anti-American thread, because that's what he does, as a Canadian.
He's pretty obsessed with that lol
teruterubozu
Member
Ah I see what's going on now. Ugh.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Is he really? Then it's not worth arguing lol. I'm not one for accusations, but if that's the case, than I'm not going to waste my time any further in here. Maybe he has a fear against the US, iunno.
Ehh. I think protection and fear aren't the same thing really. I mean, why do you wear a seat belt? Why do people pay attention to car safety ratings? Is it because they're literally scared of dying in a crash? I don't think so. When I was in the Army I jumped out of airplanes and now when I fly civilian and don't have a parachute I feel naked. I wish I had a parachute. Not that I'm scared the plane would crash mind you but because I know something is out there that would make me safer. People should have money stashed for emergencies, like medical or losing a job or some other unforeseen financial difficulty, do people who have some money saved up for such a reason live in fear of such a thing happening? Preparedness is not the same as fear. Hell fear itself isn't necessarily a bad thing.For multiple people debating my gun point. Here was a national US study on reason to own a gun.
How is that not fear related?
I'd go as far to say that to be unprepared is stupid. It's just with guns there's one vital difference from everything else. Normal preparations may include things like, taking a paper map somewhere new even though you're really going to be using your cell phone or shouldn't stray from a known or populated area, carrying extra of a prescription on you away from home, medical IDs or bracelets, road side emergency kits, keeping a gallon of gas in a container, higher levels of insurance, having some money set aside, keeping some long lasting food and water stored, all kinds of mundane shit. The difference these have with a gun is that none of these might make someone else less safe. But the concept behind owning a gun for defense is no different than learning cpr, or taking martial arts, or carrying a first aid kit while hiking or anything else. Just, someone's not going to go crazy one day and start shocking random people in a school with a personal emergency defibrillator.
Mammoth Jones
Member
It's not fear because the emotion of fear isn't at play in my thoughts or feelings. Despite the possible danger.
Once again, I wear a seat belt because I'm aware of the risks involved in a collision. Does that mean I'm afraid of getting in my car and driving?
I don't understand how you know more about my emotional state than me, lmao. I own a gun because I'm aware of the possibility of being robbed. Not because I'm afraid.
You seem to have a very narrow narrative that you seem to want to stick to. I can only speak for myself and my experience. You shouldn't do that for me when I'm telling you my position from my experience. It's extremely arrogant to assume I'm wrong about my feelings when I'm telling you flat out my reasoning from my perspective.
But I get it, Americans own guns because they're scared and trembling whilst thinking about using their guns. And they have small genitals. And masturbate with rem-oil.
But these people live in the US, not Canada or Australia. Locking doors, and for many having a firearm, is seen as a logical measure against potential bad situations.
Am I living in fear if I keep jumper cables in my car?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Not sure since I haven't witnessed this "culture of fear". I'm American, and a gun owner, but I don't own them out of fear. I own them because I used to hunt and I enjoy going to the range. I don't even keep my ammo locked up in the same room as my guns (in fact the bulk of my ammo is in my father's house). So even if someone did break into my place (which won't happen) I wouldn't even be able to use my gun (I'd skedaddle out my place ASAP). In fact I only know a single person who fears the government and everyone rolls their eyes at him when he goes on about it. I also work in schools and nobody is actually afraid of a school shooting occurring to us. This is why so many people respond with "I can't believe it happened here." in places they have happened.
As for fear of other races, that's not US specific. Most of Europe, as well as rest the world, is just as bad, if not worse when it comes to fearing people with darker skin. Fear of terrorism probably stems from that whole 9/11 thing, which is the first time in decades that the US has really had to deal with a major national tragedy, but I don't know anyone personally who is afraid of terrorists anymore.
As for fear of other races, that's not US specific. Most of Europe, as well as rest the world, is just as bad, if not worse when it comes to fearing people with darker skin. Fear of terrorism probably stems from that whole 9/11 thing, which is the first time in decades that the US has really had to deal with a major national tragedy, but I don't know anyone personally who is afraid of terrorists anymore.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
No your afraid dying in an accident because of not taking the proper safety considerations. Fear exists for a reason it's basically your survival instincts, but the reason your carrying your gun, on the off chance you get robbed is definitely fear. Much like how people by insurance but the fear of something bad happening to their property or themselves.
I do like debating the flaws of American politics and culture. Especially since it's such a divisive point and I like to debate in general.
But my debate topic here has more to do with all the school shooting and police shooting violence lately. I see mental health debated. I see racism debated. I see gun control debated. But I haven't seen the concept of a culture of fear being the origin being discussed.
It was a discussion point during the Columbine incident, and I think it was one of the major points Bowling for Columbine tried to make, but seems to have been forgotten.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Nobody buys insurance out of fear. Loss aversion is not the same thing as fear. If you built a hundred thousand dollar home then there is the risk it will get destroyed, and people tend to want to protect their investment so they reduce the potential of loss by insuring it.
If you watch the news, you'd think America was the Wild West on the verge of a racial holy war. In reality, most of us sit around and stuff our faces until we're fat, we take lavish vacations all around the country, we buy lots of crap we don't need, and different races and groups marry each other on a pretty consistent basis. You honestly can walk down many streets in the U.S. and be just fine.
America is a pretty awesome (but flawed) place to live. The homicide rate is high compared to other countries, but you also have to remember that the U.S. has a lot more people than those other countries. There's more people in some U.S. states than there are people in many European countries, Canada, and Australia.
The media really gives people a skewed perspective on reality.
America is a pretty awesome (but flawed) place to live. The homicide rate is high compared to other countries, but you also have to remember that the U.S. has a lot more people than those other countries. There's more people in some U.S. states than there are people in many European countries, Canada, and Australia.
The media really gives people a skewed perspective on reality.
ctrl + f "mind killer"
GAF is slipping
This is a good book on the subject that I recommend OP reads.
The author appeared on Charlie Brooker's Newswipe too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY0FQxKYjrI
GAF is slipping
This is a good book on the subject that I recommend OP reads.
The author appeared on Charlie Brooker's Newswipe too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY0FQxKYjrI
All the statistics are posted per capita or per 100k metrics, population is irrelevant.
Japan has close to half the population of America and has one of the lowest gun violence rates in the modern world. India has over 3x the population of America and has a significantly less gun violence statistic.
Japan has close to half the population of America and has one of the lowest gun violence rates in the modern world. India has over 3x the population of America and has a significantly less gun violence statistic.
Well, how exactly is fear related? Maybe that's why it's not brought up. Surely you're not saying you think the people who commit these school shootings have done so out of fear do you?
And further, I think many communities do indeed have a problem with their police force but, fear's not always bad or wrong, it's only bad if it's unfounded fear or paralyzing fear. But if your local police is the lot who will just drive up and shoot you then being afraid and wary of them isn't the wrong emotion! They'd be stupid not to be scared.
Or do you mean on the police force's end? In which I'd say some of their fear is warranted, it is a somewhat dangerous job after all. I find the wanton shooting of animals frankly absurd though. If you're such a wimp that you don't feel you can handle a dog without shooting it you definitely have no business dealing with a more dangerous animal, like say, people. So I actually expect police to have a little fear when responding to violent calls, or during some sketchy stops, I just don't condone them acting on their fear before it's justified.
So really, I'd say guns and fear and police violence are probably tied together. If there were little to no guns more police would probably just happily physically beat you instead of outright shooting you. Which isn't to say that's a good thing, I'm not saying police violence would go down but police shootings probably would. The actual police violence itself however is probably more rooted in racism and stuff like that than fear of guns. Just, you know, if the other side might also have a gun and you want to cause them harm, I guess they feel it's best to shoot you lest you turn the tables.
But public shootings aren't rooted in fear. They're something different alltogether.
All the other fears you list are shared by every country.
Always-honest
Banned
Aren't people told to be afraid by media and government?
I do think that happens everywhere, but certainly in the US.
I do think that happens everywhere, but certainly in the US.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
For multiple people debating my gun point. Here was a national US study on reason to own a gun.
How is that not fear related?
wow, 22% increase in less than 4 years?
Well, 14 years. Still high though.
As an European I understand OP's point of view. From outside it looks like a vicious circle based on fear. "We need guns for self defence" - motivated by fear. Police needs to be trained to shoot at first potential threat because so many people have guns and not reacting might mean death - motivated by fear. Which drives the fear of Police (not to be confused with the respect for the law) in big parts of the population.
1 of the two major parties has only topics that are driven by fear: fear of immigrants, fear of God, fear of the government, fear of Muslims etc.
Now I understand the Americans who say that this feeling is mostly induced by the media coverage and you might be right, but maybe you should also think if you're not so used to all this that you don't actually notice it.
Of course there are parties that are solely based on fear in Europe too and it seems present more and more over here too, but it doesn't really impact the entire society. Yet.
1 of the two major parties has only topics that are driven by fear: fear of immigrants, fear of God, fear of the government, fear of Muslims etc.
Now I understand the Americans who say that this feeling is mostly induced by the media coverage and you might be right, but maybe you should also think if you're not so used to all this that you don't actually notice it.
Of course there are parties that are solely based on fear in Europe too and it seems present more and more over here too, but it doesn't really impact the entire society. Yet.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Yes they do, life insurance, fear of you house burning down and that it entails, I'm not even sure where you came to the conclusion no one buys insurance out of fear.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
To be fair our government overthrows themselves pretty constantly.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
For multiple people debating my gun point. Here was a national US study on reason to own a gun.
How is that not fear related?
What are you trying to prove with those statistics? There are more people who are buying guns out of fear? Could it also be that more people are getting rid of their guns for reasons other than fear? For example, 16 years ago, in 1999 which the statistics display, I owned guns primarily for hunting purposes. That's no longer the case as I've stopped hunting, so I would contribute to the decrease of that 49% which would increase the other percents.
You're using a very liberal (as in broad) definition of fear if you're applying it to simple loss aversion. Most people do not buy insurance because of unpleasant emotions.
Culture of fear? Partially.
A lot of American racists aren't scared of black people. They see black people as inferior and undesirable, and are annoyed when they seek inclusion and acceptance. Fear and hate often go together but in a lot of cases have nothing to do with each other.
A lot of American racists aren't scared of black people. They see black people as inferior and undesirable, and are annoyed when they seek inclusion and acceptance. Fear and hate often go together but in a lot of cases have nothing to do with each other.
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