T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
If seatbelts didn't come with the car, how many people do you think would own seatbelts?
Why does America have a culture of fear?
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If seatbelts didn't come with the car, how many people do you think would own seatbelts?
electroshockwave
Member
If that were the case then overall gun ownership would have gone down significantly (with presumably the raw number of people owning guns for protection staying the same). Do you have a source that indicates that?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I do not have a source to indicate that. It very well could be the case, but his evidence alone isn't supporting it. He would need to support it with raw numbers to make the case that more people are buying out of fear. It could also be the case that people's primary reasons have shifted. For example, in 1999 I could have owned a gun first for hunting, second for protection. If I gave up hunting then obviously protection takes the number one slot. So I've contributed to the decrease of one and an increase in the other. I can say anecdotally that I've seen a sharp decrease in the number of hunters in my area. This can also be seen in the increase of the deer population. So with less people hunting, of course more people percent wise are owning for protection.
Edit: Basically my point is that those percents alone tell us nothing. They can be interpreted at least two different ways. Raw numbers that say 'this many people bought for protection in 1999 and 2013' would need to be provided before it could maybe support the notion that more are 'buying out of fear'.
_illmatic_
Member
I think it's media portrayal and systems put in place to tell the public about the boogey man. I'll never forget in Louisiana after Katrina a lot of people from New Orleans relocated to Baton Rouge, the closet large city. We had news reports saying these "thugs" were roaming the streets and stealing, attacking people on site. Gun shops SOLD OUT, stores closed early. It was crazy, all based off rumors with no real evidence.
Gotta make sure you protect yourself from poor black people, they kill you in heart beat....smh
Gotta make sure you protect yourself from poor black people, they kill you in heart beat....smh
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Also worth noting that 'fear of terrorism' has decreased overall from 2001 to 2011. So that's an odd one to include in the OP. Though I am curious as to what the hell happened in 2010-2011 to cause that spike in there. Luckily it fell quicker than it raised.
Edit: Actually the second graph shows more of an even horizontal line now that I look at it. So the fear of terrorism has maybe remained relatively the same for that decade. I didn't realize until now that the top graph included the caveat of an attack occurring "over the next several weeks".
Edit: Actually the second graph shows more of an even horizontal line now that I look at it. So the fear of terrorism has maybe remained relatively the same for that decade. I didn't realize until now that the top graph included the caveat of an attack occurring "over the next several weeks".
IISANDERII
Member
Right wing and other extreme governments gain and retain their power through fear. US hasn't always been this way but it has made long strides towards this in the last few generations.
And just because you sprinkle a couple of left leaning administrations here+there, it's not near enough to make a massive political shift, let alone a cultural one.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I never said I carry a gun. I said I have one in the home.
It's amazing you can tell me what I'm feeling yet can't be bothered to read what I wrote. I'm in NY, no carry for me and I wouldn't anyways.
A person can be aware of danger without being afraid. If you can't that's on you but don't project that onto others.
I think for the purpose of this thread, you're painting to broad a stroke on the definition of fear.
While there is a kind of fear in thing like home insurance (fear of an unknown future), it is not the same kind of fear that the news promotes. Your gun example isn't the source of fear, it is the symptom of the unfounded fears stirred up by the news and politics.
There is a vast difference between a person who owns a gun just in case of home invasion and who who has a concealed carried cause they never know when "one of them" is going to attack. The former is for a very specific reason, the other is based on unfounded beliefs of the threat level of strangers around them.
"Their taking our jobs!"
"We don't want their kind in our neighborhood!"
"The government is out to get us!"
"Those (insert political group) are destroying out way of life!"
"Their religion is wrong!"
"Their just out to make money off us, their product is poison!"
That's the difference. One is a specific possibility based on probability, the other is the fear of interacting with other human cause they are different.
AbsolutBro
Member
For multiple people debating my gun point. Here was a national US study on reason to own a gun.
How is that not fear related?
I was not part of that survey, but would have said the same thing.
I have had to use a gun to protect my livestock from someone's dog that had gotten lose and was attacking them (I didn't kill or even hurt the dog, btw). We also have bears AND coyotes moving closer and closer to the area.
I'm not afraid of someone attacking my home, most nights I don't even lock the doors. The benefits of living in a rural area. I do know that in the unlikely chance my house is broken into, that the police are over 30 minutes away. Hell, when my sister was dating a state trooper and he came over for a BBQ, his first comment was "holy crap, there are houses back here?"
I ride public transportation to work every day and generally fall asleep with no fear that I will be attacked or robbed while sleeping. I work in DC, possibly one of the most likely targets for an actual terror attack, and yet don't worry every day that I'll be blown up or shot. For most people, especially those like me who have basically stopped consuming American news media (prefer BBC or Al Jazeera), daily fear just isn't really a thing.
vas_a_morir
Banned
This image kinda backfires. As scary as gun violence is, when you REALLY think about 3 people per 100,000, it's like "In a stadium full of 100,000 people, instead of 0 or one person dying like in most countries, THREE people will die!" and you go "hmm, that's really not THAT big of a deal."
I guess I forget just how many people the US compared to other developed countries sometimes. But don't get it twisted: Semi-Auto weapons need to be banned.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Not a big deal if you reduce people to a number, no. But it's still sad 3 people die per 100,000 unnecessarily. I don't really see any worth in measuring it against other countries anyway. We should always aspire to make that number 0.0 per 100,000, even if that's impossible, whether we're the United States, Canada, or France. Because working to reduce that is still better than doing nothing at all. And this is coming from a gun-owner.
Mammoth Jones
Member
If only the know-it-all youth gave a shit enough to vote consistently.
Your use of the word "fear" is too damn broad.
U.S citizens don't "fear" government, they distrust it and just so you are aware, most of the population favor bigger government.
U.S citizens don't generally fear other races either. Hatred isn't always "fear". Fear is too general for racism.
U.S citizens do not "fear" each other the way you think. Most citizens will go about their day everyday without actual worry of their safety. There is an issue with the guns being in so high of a number that, people do have to be mindful of who they cross.
Most U.S citizens do not fear that they will get targeted in a terrorist attack. The issue is that its on the news so much that people feel like its an actual threat that they let politicians do what they like when it comes to dealing with terrorism. Not fear, but ignorance is at the core here.
I love how you compared U.S gun violence to places that have said guns banned or strictly controlled (India and Japan, man?).
U.S gun culture is embedded in it's roots, it is the sole reason things can not change. The 2nd Amendment is near untouchable since it in the Bill of Rights, which takes a lot of effort to amend. The political system U.S have is what hinders progress, where many elders see any sign of change as one step to "ban all guns".
U.S needs a simple thing and that is a federal registration program and outright ban of handguns except in shooting ranges.'
U.S's situation is unique to U.S due to many factors 200 years ago.
Princess Carl
Member
Non corrupt voting laws and the continued implementation of automatic voting registration across the country is where it starts. Hopefully we'll see shit voter id laws rolled back and more common sense one continue to pass.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
we don't eat enough butter and cheese sandwiches
Mammoth Jones
Member
100% agreed. But let's not pretend that's why young people don't vote.
I'd also add making election days a national holiday so people don't have to choose between work and voting.
When your only exposure to is the news and people on the internet, of course it's going to seem like that's all there is.
According to this, based on percentage of deaths, Ireland, Italy, and the Netherlands are much worse than U.S. when compared to number of guns out there.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
This right here, i was about to post the same.
AbsolutBro
Member
Considering the low turnout of already registered voters in this country, while automatic registration is definitely a good thing, I doubt overall percentage will increase much.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
No more so than other countries really... we just have more guns.
hey_monkey
Banned
I cannot agree with posters saying fear is a part of daily life for the average American. They probably wouldn't say it if asked, sure, but not only do polls reveal fear-related issues at the forefront, but so many of the things people get upset about relate to fear. Fear of change ("PC" issues), fear of losing what they have/potential (refusal to consider economic adjustments that would benefit most Americans, health care changes, etc)... There's too much to list. Almost all the major issues people discuss are grounded in some kind of fear.
hey_monkey
Banned
...and also fear of losing privilege, which they may not understand. Fear of change. Fear of what they think they don't understand.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Yes! This is what I was thinking of, I remember Charlie Brooker talking about it but couldn't remember the name.
ryutaro's mama
Member
This country's citizens once accused people of being witches and burned them at the stake...out of fear.
Think about that shit.
Think about that shit.
bengraven
Member
It's funny that a country that feels the need to publicize how many weapons they have, how big their military is, how powerful their god is, how you can't "mess with our state", how they can threaten other people and races for being different from them...
..are also the biggest fucking cowards in the world, terrified of losing everything and waving around guns to try and ward off the invisible monsters, pulling the trigger because someone who's skin they hate just pulled out a Reese's cup and OMG IT MIGHT KILL ME SHOOT SHOOT.
..are also the biggest fucking cowards in the world, terrified of losing everything and waving around guns to try and ward off the invisible monsters, pulling the trigger because someone who's skin they hate just pulled out a Reese's cup and OMG IT MIGHT KILL ME SHOOT SHOOT.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Half of the nation thinks that Syrian refugees are actually disguised ISIS fighters and Donald Trump leads the polls.
We have a lot of fear still.
I'd bet if you looked at the total number of guns owned in a country vs # of gun related deaths, the US wouldn't even be that high.
Do you honestly think you are informed enough about the US (or any country other than your own) to make such a huge generalization? I think you can say that Americans have more anxiety due to fewer social safety nets, and a large number don't trust the federal government. But we aren't "in fear", and don't need to be. The only way you come to that conclusion is by watching too much media (American or otherwise) and making generalizations from it.
Do you honestly think you are informed enough about the US (or any country other than your own) to make such a huge generalization? I think you can say that Americans have more anxiety due to fewer social safety nets, and a large number don't trust the federal government. But we aren't "in fear", and don't need to be. The only way you come to that conclusion is by watching too much media (American or otherwise) and making generalizations from it.
So are you betting, or are you informed? Which is it?
Fear of terrorism is only one piece of the puzzle. If you are young, maybe it's the only piece you think about, but if you lived through the at least the 1980s you will have a better perspective on this.
Fear of nuclear annihilation
A lot of people here probably do not remember the Cold War-era days, but there was a real fear that the entire country could be destroyed in a nuclear war with Russia. Today's fear of terrorism pales in comparison.
Fear of crime
Watch an 80s sci-fi movie like Escape from New York, and realize that the urban post-apocalyptic motif was a reflection of the fact that people legitimately thought that crime was taking over as the crack epidemic ran rampant and murder rates were through the roof. Today crime as a whole is down, especially violent crime and many of the Tough on Crime measures of the era are being rolled back as people feel much safer.
Fear of drugs
From Reefer Madness to analogies of your brain frying like an egg, people used to be extremely frightened of drugs turning people into maniacs. Today we have legalized marijuana for medical or recreational use in many state.
Fear of AIDS
The recent ebola scare was nothing compared to the panic over AIDs in the 80s. There were parts of the country where 90% of parents where keeping their children home from school over fear they might be exposed to AIDs. It was also a big contributor to homophobia, another major fear that has significantly decreased over the last decade.
Fear of Communism
Here's a real culture of fear example. There is some rationality to being afraid of violence and disease, but this was fear of an idea. Say what you will about Islamophobia in the Western world today, but it was fear of Communism that inspired things like loyalty oaths, blacklists, and witch hunts in government. People roll their eyes over the fringe calling Obama a Muslim, but in the era of McCarthy there was open debate in Congress over lists of secret Communists in government.
I look around today, and I honestly do not see anything that matches those panics. Terrorism was up there in the early 2000s when the government was issuing Amber Alerts every other day, news was dominated by Weapons of Mass Destruction, and the Patriot Act passed 98-1 in the Senate. Fear of ISIS is not even close to the same level.
As for Trump's playing to fear of immigrants, that is not really a new situation in the US, nor is fear of immigrants an exclusively US issue. Take a look at the GAF threads on the Syrian refugee crisis and you can see a lot of Europeans freaking out while their far-right parties gain in the polls.
hey_monkey
Banned
Snipped so as not to quote giant post. But just because those fears have changed from full-out LET'S BUY BUNKERS! panics doesn't mean they've gone away. It means they've changed. The entire culture has shifted from the 1950s, even the 1980s and early 90s. Now we have rape underwear and parents get arrested for letting their kids play in the park and there's a whole news channel dedicated to telling folks Obama is personally coming for their guns, jobs, and freedom.
Fuckin' nailed it.
Arkam
Member
All the xenophobia and biases in this thread are funny enough considering the topic.
Though in my humble opinion the answer to the OP is the Creel Committee. It was a U.S. Govt initiative to whip up the passive public into an antigerman hate so they could enter WWI. It worked pretty well and it's methods were never abandoned.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Public_Information
Though in my humble opinion the answer to the OP is the Creel Committee. It was a U.S. Govt initiative to whip up the passive public into an antigerman hate so they could enter WWI. It worked pretty well and it's methods were never abandoned.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Public_Information
PeskyToaster
Member
Humanity has a culture of fear and it just makes itself known differently throughout the world. Even the UK prime minister (I think it was him) was throwing around 9/11 to attack his opponent. I would say people are less afraid now but you can't really survey that and get real responses. Time and distance lessen fear but back then people were truly on the brink of annihilation and knew it. That fear was also pretty rational since it came close to happening several times. I would say what people fear changes, be it witches, nuclear bombs, or terrorists, but there will always be something to fear and decisions made because of that.
Edit: I have to add that even this thread features broad generalizations and an ingroup-outgroup bias that are the roots of xenophobia and racism.
Edit: I have to add that even this thread features broad generalizations and an ingroup-outgroup bias that are the roots of xenophobia and racism.
bengraven
Member
Do you live in a big city in the northern part of the country?
Because the rural areas, from the farthest state north (where I grew up) and the farthest state south (where I live now) seem to be getting more and more terrified.
(in their opinion...) We have:
- a Muslim president
- who openly defied god and put a target on this country by making sin legal
- Mexicans are now Islamic terrorists
- every school shooting brings the inevitable seizure of guns closer and closer
- lost the right to protect ourselves
- especially by recognizing the threats in front of us because we need to be PC and assume all races and cultures are benign
- we lost the freedom of speech - you can't say your mind anymore
- God is banned in schools
I think a significant part of it (not all of it) is Fox and other right-wing media. I have some conservative friends and Fox is always on in their house so I see it when I go over there. It's just a constant drumbeat of BE AFRAID TERRORISTS ARE COMING TO EAT YOUR BABIES. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE DEMOCRATS ARE LYING TO YOU. WELFARE RECIPIENTS ARE LAZY CHEATS. It's just crazy-making and I totally understand why a consistent diet of this would make you paranoid and afraid.
I don't think it's something specific to America but yeah americans have taken it to another level. I feel like America always needs a foreign ennemy to keep people tied together. The country has been in a state of perpetual war. Could you imagine what would happen to the US if their army had no war to fight ? A HUGE part of their culture revolves around stuff like " support our troops " and other military/patriotic tropes.
I don't remember the last time the US didn't have an ennemy that was " apparently " threatening its existence.
I don't remember the last time the US didn't have an ennemy that was " apparently " threatening its existence.
The stuff I listed was all mainstream, bipartisan hysteria. Rape underwear is not. Remember that there was a time in this country when a white woman and a black man could not be alone together in the same room. That was mainstream hysteria. You are talking about a fringe group; there are always going to be fringe groups like that. It doesn't spell out a nation-wide culture of fear.
There is also nothing unique about a partisan media outlet drumming up fear when the opposition party is in power. That happens in every country. I was in London a couple weeks ago, and I heard worse fearmongering directed at Jeremy Corbyn.
I will agree that there is a persistent irrational fear from parents about their kids. However, that is not a new thing - it's been around since at least the 1990s. So I don't think it really impacts my argument that there is less widespread fear in the US today than there was in most previous decades.
I grew up in a rural area, and my family still lives there. People are definitely more religious and more pro-gun (hunting is a big pastime), but I have not experienced most of what you are saying, and frankly consider it to be the sort of thing that is believed by out-of-touch liberals that don't actually have any conservative friends. Kind of like how there are some conservative whackos who read about a professor saying that America deserved 9/11 and then think that's how all liberal elites think.
It is easy to fall victim to selection bias if you try to understand a place just from what you see in the media. When some nutjob spouts crazy stuff at a Trump rally, it becomes a national news story. There is no news story about millions of people holding different values, but rational beliefs.
The 1990s.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
One of those being fear, are you honestly going to tell me you haven't heard of the marketing term "fear of loss" come on now, fear has a very broad definition this shouldn't be news to you.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Not necessarily either one. A gun is just a tool. If a situation never arises with the need to use it, then thats great. If it is, glad to have had it. My family and acquaintances who own guns do not see it as some big deal and you will find this sentiment goes for most gun owners. It requires about the same level of "paranoia" as buying a steering wheel lock for your automobile.
The average "protect my family/use it for sporting or hunting" gun owner is not killing people so I don't know why you would have a problem with them, especially when it can be reasonably concluded that a significant number support some form of more gun control. And at any rate, most gun deaths are suicides, not homicides. And a lot of those gun homicides take place in really shitty disenfranchised parts of the country with underlying poverty problems that are highly exacerbated by access to guns. Places like New Orleans, Detroit, Baltimore, and don't forget our friend Chicago. These pockets of violence involve criminals (straw) purchasing guns explicitly for criminal activity.
PdotMichael
Banned
Sorry, you are stuck with the USA.
bengraven
Member
Sounds like we grew up in similar circumstances (I'm from a big pro-hunting family/gun dealers and I actually enjoy hunting quite a bit). Personally I have few liberal friends and the ones I do we rarely talk about politics. I'm surrounded by my wife's family, all right wing, and back home my entire family is right wing. Because I do lean left, I take notice and have realized that things are getting worse and worse with the right wings in both locations. People are getting more and more terrified.
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