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[Fantasmo]

The difference between HD and SD is tremendous to just about anyone given a good enough set. Not only that but I do agree people should switch to HD, however SD has had a very long transition time, so people had the opportunity to switch over slowly. Compare this to PC Audio... 1 product and dropped.

Explain to me again why one person's ears and wallet should dictate the audio market? Again, I still haven't met a single person that is willing to upgrade from DD to 7.1 analog unless they are techheads that upgrade for the sake of upgrading or SA-CD, DVD-Audio. It sounds better, sure, but nobody thinks it's compelling unless they are anal. A lot of these people are getting the new stuff because of older failed hardware and or they are late adopters to Home-Theatre. You're anal but most aren't, stop rushing us! Do a simple survey if you don't believe me. 5.1 -> 7.1 is not a jump that most will take.

If you checked the above posts, Intel has a few solutions with their HiDef audio codec architecture that specifically includes encoding. That and Terratac seems to be making a PCI-E solution. So you're wrong about market dictating. It was dropped, and now it's back. If it didn't come back, it would have created a huge whole in the market and holes in the market are begging to be filled, even in a Creative monopolized market.

 

[Moegames]

Anybody else irritated about the lack of audio solutions for PC?

I know I'm in the minority here, but I use my home theatre for gaming. I play on an Athlon XP w/ Geforce 6800GT. My computer is hooked up to S-Video out, audio is hooked up through nForce2's Soundstorm SPDIF output into my Dolby Digital Receiver. I sit on my recliner, drop a wooden board across the armrests and use my wireless keyboard and mouse to revel in high-res video, and 5.1 audio Home Theatre goodness with Far Cry, Doom3, and UT2k4. Recently my system has gotten slow and I realized it was time to upgrade.

Lo and Behold I find out that there are ZERO, count em, ZERO solutions for Dolby Digital for games past the nForce2 generation. nVidia dropped Soundstorm from their entire product line. Creative Audigy has nothing besides analog 5.1 (headphone jacks) but Home Theatres don't support this. For some f'ed up reason, their coax only outputs to regular stereo sound, NO SURROUND! I like the fact that I can hear someone sneaking up behind me in UT2k4, 2 speakers doesn't cut it!

How can PC's claim to be the king of power if audio doesn't support the king of setups? How is it possible that the graphics arena has Geforce 6800 and ATI X800 and audio is so sorely lacking? Why are people able to play at an obscene 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF but only get stereo sound? And does anyone actually have 6 speakers setup around their PC? Everybody that has 4.1 or higher just crowds every speaker right in front of their monitor. That's not surround, that's 5 speakers jumbled together.

::Spits on floor::

This gotta be one of the most off the wall assumptions i've ever heard lol... alot of music studios now days use pc audio hardware/software for recording....yes pc's. i know because my uncle is in the music business in Minneapolis. Even i know better then to say pc music isnt up to standards..it supports DD if you buy the right card and speakers..and you cant get any better in home audio then DD right now...of course you can get better home theater equipment..speakers,recievers,etc but it can be done on a pc as well..infact you can use home theater equipment,speakers,etc on a pc ..so your claim is very false

I think your basing this from what you have..not everyone has what you have..some people are into audio more then videogames on the pc. Pc' tend to be underpowered compared to hometheater equipment as far as audio goes..but like i said you can connect a nice reciever to a pc and use top of the line home theater speakers on your pc as well if thats your thing

 

[Shogmaster]

This gotta be one of the most off the wall assumptions i've ever heard lol... alot of music studios now days use pc audio hardware/software for recording....yes pc's. i know because my uncle is in the music business in Minneapolis. Even i know better then to say pc music isnt up to standards..it supports DD if you buy the right card and speakers..and you cant get any better in home audio then DD right now...of course you can get better home theater equipment..speakers,recievers,etc but it can be done on a pc as well..infact you can use home theater equipment,speakers,etc on a pc ..so your claim is very false

LEARN. TO. READ.

He's talking about gaming audio, doofus, and made that point OVER AND OVER, abundantly clear. Christ on a stick....

 

[borghe]

while the poster wasn't referring to gaming audio, he still has a valid point. Not everyone out there finds this important or even true. I am an example, and anyone else who has a multichannel receiver hooked up to their computer, whether a $99 PC solution or a $5000 receiver, probably doesn't care either. This is for an arguably niche segment who specifically wants Dolby Digital encoded sound coming out of their PCs for games. So the sound has not gotten worse, it has just changed directions. Before it was moving towards encoded digital discrete formats, now it is moving back to analog discrete formats.. the advantage is that the latter is considerably more flexible than the former.

Anyway, I don't want to get things going again, just pointing out that even though he didn't understand we were talking about gaming here, he still has a valid point in there.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Look, if 6 channel discrete audio inputs is the new standard and we should all "get with the times" and forget optical/coax DD5.1, then how come 90% of DVD players, not to mention PS2 and Xbox, all support either Coax or Optical?

The fact is that optical/coax is THE STANDARD for non-audiophile positional digital sound. The PC (and Creative Cards) are just as "mainstream" as the Xbox or PS2, and yet they don't offer this functionality.

Yes, 6 discrete inputs is the standard for SACD and DVD-Audio and whatever else audiophile format emerges, but 95% of the public doesn't care about those formats and won't for the forseeable future so who cares what they do. Do you think that PS3 or Xbox2 are going to come with 9 rca plugs on the end of its cable you have to plug in? Nope. It'll be your video of choice and optical/coax. If everything went 6-analog only then receivers would be huge and filled with 6 times the amount of RCA inputs on the back. What if I need more than 1 or 2 6-analog sources hooked up? Do I have to buy some kind of switcher? This is simply not a mainstream way of doing things.

PC gaming soundcard's are mainstream just like those game boxes and yet, for the most part, they are insisting on the backwards notion of not supporting DD5.1 through a digital connection.

THAT's what we're talking about here, not that PC sound sucks or that it is poor or what have you. It can be the best in the world, but what bothers us is that they do not support the sound format that our pre-existing HT setups were made to accept and process.

It's not hard to do, so why haven't they done it? Simply put, so that they can sell their Cambridge Soundworks Speaker Sets. They know that most people won't be satisfied with stereo sound through an older/existing HT setup so now they can sell their up-to-multi-hundred dollar speaker setups that work with thier 6 channel-analog format. Great, just what I wanted to do, buy a new receiver or a $100 speaker setup that does nothing but PC. What a waste. But big $$$ for Creative Labs.

 

[borghe]

THAT's what we're talking about here, not that PC sound sucks or that it is poor or what have you. It can be the best in the world, but what bothers us is that they do not support the sound format that our pre-existing HT setups were made to accept and process.

Dolby Digital did not support your existing setups. DTS did not support the existing DVD players at the time. Dolby Digital did not support the existing laserdisc players at the time. TVs with only HDMI inputs do not support S/PDIF at all... things move on and so should you. I never said 6 input analog was the wave of the future, I simply said it is the way that PC speakers seem to be going. I'm not dictating mandate here... I'm just pointing out the obvious.

It's not hard to do, so why haven't they done it? Simply put, so that they can sell their Cambridge Soundworks Speaker Sets. They know that most people won't be satisfied with stereo sound through an older/existing HT setup so now they can sell their up-to-multi-hundred dollar speaker setups that work with thier 6 channel-analog format. Great, just what I wanted to do, buy a new receiver or a $100 speaker setup that does nothing but PC. What a waste. But big $$$ for Creative Labs.

Except it's not just creative labs. It is EVERY audio manufacturer. Yamaha, Creative, Realtek, VIA, Turtle Beach, etc. So now I turn the question around to you... If it's not that hard to do, why haven't they done it yet? Aside from Creative I don't see a single one of those making speaker setups, and it HAS to be cheaper getting rid of up to 3 extra outputs (considering all of them have a S/PDIF on there already). You guys keep talking about how it is so easy, yet only one company has ever done it, ONCE, and never after that... obviously there is something there that we don't know about. In the meantime there IS a solution in place, but apparently that doesn't matter.

anyway, I am going to try and leave this once and for all gracefully. I really get where you guys are coming from, I just really don't share the same point of view. The only difference is that at the end of the day ONE of us will be enjoying gorgeous multichannel surround on their PC games and the rest won't.

beyond that I really don't know what else to say...

 

[Fantasmo]

Dr. Zoidberg, I couldn't have said it better myself.

On another note this thread is turning into a flamewar so I'm not going to continue fueling the fire and I've said all I am able to on the matter anyway.

Last point before I go...
http://www.hexus.net

NVIDIA Editors Day: Soundstorm
Posted on Tuesday, 7 December, 2004 by David
In an exclusive press briefing - the CEO of NVIDIA has just stated that we will see Soundstorm avaliable on nForce soon. This will be more than the old hat Soundstorm which was on nForce 1 and 2.

NVIDIA chose not to do this with nForce 4 - but he for one acknowledges that the market wants it. This is a great proof of consumer power and that NVIDIA do listen to the consumer.

It was apparent that that Jen Hsun is excited about this audio solution. More on the new Soundstorm implementation as and when we get it.

Hopefully someone got some good information from this thread. Cheers all!

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

DD didn't support our Pro-logic setups. You're right. But then DD was a leap ahead of Pro Logic. 6-analog is NOT much better than a DD5.1. At least to these ears. That difference is for audiophiles, not the average consumer. IF optical=CD then 6-analog=SACD. Sure, it's better, but most don't care. Optical is good enough and it's EASY and QUICK.


Borghe, The whole point of this thread is to complain about the way things are, and the way WE think they should be. The PC industry should support the standard the rest of the industry does. It can't be that hard. I don't think that Nvidia has geniuses working in their sound chip department. They've done it with Xbox and Nforce. Others can do it to.

Yes, we know we CAN get the new receiver or speakers, and enjoy glorious PC sound, it's just that we don't think we should have to, and this forum gives us the platform to bitch about it. Yes, special speaker sets is the STANARD in PC gaming, but we just think it's a dumb standard. Sure, the rest of the PC industry apparently disagrees, but we're not them and apparently the vast majority of consumer electronics manufacturers agrees with us.

The only difference is that at the end of the day ONE of us will be enjoying gorgeous multichannel surround on their PC games and the rest won't.

Well, good for you. I don't think that's a wise investment of my $$$. I'd rather complain about the industry's lack of support for the standard.

 

[gohepcat]

Haha what timeing

http://www.hexus.net/#Soundstorm

 

[Uncle Dukey]

Haha what timeing

http://www.hexus.net/#Soundstorm

Er.. two posts above you?

 

[Ghost]

My digital reciever went kaput today, so i thought id revive this thread to get me a new one.

I have a game theatre XP, aswell as a Yamaha TSS-1 Dolby Digital / DTS 5.1 which i should need but i do because the XPs racks audio outputs are shite (extremely buzzy audio, im no audiophile, its actually headache inducing) anyway i have to cart this stuff around all the time (i think its done over 10,000 miles in the back of my car in the last couple of years) so im not totally shocked that the yamaha reciever has broken down.

I want to either buy a whole new set of speakers, Or a half decent sound card with the right connectors that i can just connect my existing speakers to (and do away with the reciever) or both. I've looked at a few possibilities reading this thread...gimme your opinions or other suggestions please.

Things im looking for:
Optical In (i use it for Dolby Digital console sound through the yamaha at the moment)
Any speakers would also need optical In, seeing as thats the only port on the XP that actually produces decent sound.
My current speakers are 3.5mn connectors, not RCA



[M-Audio] Revolution 7.1
Has DD
Looks cool and all but doesnt seem to have an optical input

TerraTec Electronic Aureon 5.1 Fun Sound Card
Optical In and Out, cheap, id need some speakers with optical in. No DD

Terratec Aureon 7.1 Universe 24 bit 8 Chan. Analogue/Digital soundcard + breakout box (E3313)
Not so cheap, only seems to have 4 lines out ( i guess you need to use the digital outputs to get 7.1 sound) so again id need speakers, still no DD

Then theres the audigy cards, which have DD and optical in, but also their dodgy reputation and a reasonably high pricetag.

Are there any good & cheap alternatives to get DD and optical in (a rack with 6 lines out, DD & optical in would be the preferred option but id take just DD & optical in at a cheap price)?


As for speakers ive not got much clue, i just know ive only got the money to be aiming at the middle end of the market, so any suggestions there are much appriciated.