You won!
After coming dead-last with a supposedly high-tier deck, anything would have been considered a victory that evening.
You won!
Pretty much this.The tomboys in school got plenty of shit from their peers. It is probably hard to notice if you are busy licking your own wounds.
Geek culture being more popular = more friends to talk to about geek stuff with.
I wouldn't have been able to casually strike up a conversation about Dan Slott a decade ago, that's for sure. And with so many people for that matter.
I don't think I ever saw a Tomboy at my school, let alone class :/Tomboys and geeks should have teamed up and fought for control over school, but they were too divided and self-absorbed to unite.
The ultimate irony of geek hate: if geeks believe the stuff they've been into all this time is really that cool, they should be happy when more people experience it, to whatever degree.
Geeks have this problem where they can take the thing they see themselves as wardens of and strangle it to death with a grip around its throat.
Geeks have always been whiny and fickle over tiny things. The fact that there is an over saturation of 'geeky' media gives them even more chance to whine.
First things first. Sexism is a real problem in "geek culture" and I think it's the main culprit to a lot of these types of reactions. The way girls are perceived by a lot of people in these circles is disgusting and has no excuse.
That said, I think the notion that "geeks won" is wrong. Mainstream accepting comic book movies (not comic books itself) is not winning.
The way "geeks" enjoy their entertainment is very different of how the mainstream does it. Geeks like to discuss the most small things and take things very seriously. It's just how we do it and I know a lot of people here identify with that I'm sure.
The problem comes when the mainstream starts watching and liking these kinds of things but they don't do it the same way and it can be alienating. It's not like everyone is a geek now. It's not really winning because you are still alienated from the "normal" people because you don't like things the same way they do, even if you do watch the same movies. You are still an outcast in a different way.
Now, just to clarify, I don't think this is what is happening here. And I'm not justifying the disgusting sexism that exists. I'm just talking about the notion of geeks being accepted and "winning".
We talking about geeks now or fanboys?
Because fanboys will ruin ANYTHING!
I think this is a good point too. It's not like geeks and nerds "took over". They just became a valuable market segment.
Geek culture is extremely inclusionary. You have to prove your worth and if you criticize or don't fit into the mold you are ostracized. I think it's toxic.
Read this earlier today, fantastic read and a much needed highlight.
I adore Greg Rucka's response to a fake geek girl t shirt
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Sticking with the forlorn HS table example for now. For someone to concede that attractive women have the same tastes as them and still don't find them desirable is an ego blow that I don't think many can handle. It requires a bit of introspection that conflicts with the common narrative that "Women are shallow bitches who only like muscles and cars and money. That's why I'm single."
Some guys are just straight up assholes, and that comes in every walk of life, not just traditional geek culture. Sports fans, weightlifting enthusiasts, and racing fans can be just as bad, sometimes worse. I don't think anyone can argue that misogyny is exclusive to geek culture, only that the reasoning behind it can be unique.
True. Gaming, pop and geek culture has melded but to get into the industry or accepted as knowledgeable you have to fit in which makes for the diversity problems which are very problematic.It's interesting you argue the exact opposite of what I do, but in a way I think we're both right. There's some level of social gaming going on where your level of arcana knowledge raises your prestige, depending on what geek circles you inhabit.
*male geeks.
A lot of people seem to think that only men can be into these things. That's not true. Perhaps historically it was socialized to be a "boy's club," but yay feminism, now it's no longer like that, so please stop the faulty logic (not you, a general plea).
If socialization is the main reason females weren't interested in "geeky" stuff, it follows that when socialization changes, females will now be into geeky stuff.
Otherwise, to deny this is to say that "geeky" stuff is inherently a male thing... and I have no idea why anyone would think that.
I disagree with the idea that this means we should just shut up and say nothing about it.
We are acknowledging it... and then calling it out for the shitty, ignorant, asshole thing it is.
If someone is oblivious, then they will learn.
If someone is willfully ignorant, then they are an asshole.
This is shitty behavior and we are bringing it to light.
I don't think I ever saw a Tomboy at my school, let alone class :/
I came to share that Greg Rucka link, because Rucka kicks ass, and I get the same burn when I see geeksters drawing imaginary lines between the "true geeks" and the "posers."
Anyone is welcome to join the geek parade. Grab yourself a dorky t-shirt, get obsessed about a cartoon or a game or an action figure, and come on along.
I have been fighting against the 'fake geek girl' shit my entire life. Being marginally attractive AND into video games, comics and fandom apparently means I just do it for the attention, or I jumped on the bandwagon to 'fit in'. Which is fucking annoying. Never mind that I was playing Magic the Gathering back in 94' for gods sake.
It also makes me insanely protective of other marginally attractive geek girls that get shit on for being 'fake'. Like Felica Day. Yeah, she's popular now, but I've been a fan of hers forever and no, she's not fake. She got into acting with the express purpose to meet Joss Whedon. When Buffy was airing. When Dollhouse was failing, she went behind the studios back to help create an ARG (that I co-ran) to try and drum up interest in the show. She created the Guild because she was passionate about gaming, not because she was wanted attention. She wanted to draw attention to gaming, sure.
It just annoys the ever loving fuck out of me that girls in gaming or feeling hobbies have to CONSTANTLY defend against accusations of being fake. Especially if they aren't the stereotype of 'ugly overweight' that people seem to have painted geek girls into.
That's what I was drawing attention, too.
The fact is that a lot of times, in this narrative, it's implicit that geeks = men. That's the sexism that women have to face. That the geek culture is inherently accepted to be for men.
Part of the reason many women hesitate is because of the fear that they won't be accepted.
Geek culture is extremely inclusionary. You have to prove your worth and if you criticize or don't fit into the mold you are ostracized. I think it's toxic.
You could say fanboy is the omega evolution of the geek.
Meh, I actually do think that assuming something is implicitly for one gender is sexist, and I do think that the fact that it refers to "male reactions" IS sexist.
I'm not sure if you know what I mean by that, but I am just saying the fact that it is about "male" reaction is, inherently, sexist.
The ultimate irony of geek hate: if geeks believe the stuff they've been into all this time is really that cool, they should be happy when more people experience it, to whatever degree.
Geeks have this problem where they can take the thing they see themselves as wardens of and strangle it to death with a grip around its throat.
The point was never to win, but to fight.
Because, I thought his whole dialogue was sexist since it implied that it's about males versus females, rather than geeks versus non-geeks. So yes, the fact that it was implicit in that exchange, to me, is an example of sexism.
I think I am being nitpicky at this point, and I do understand what you are saying. I am arguing that the entire original exchange was sexist.
Daphne's Greek fast food is a gateway drug.I can't be the only one who read this as Greek culture at first.
Daphne's Greek fast food is a gateway drug.
Ah, okay, my bad I get what is going on. I wasn't implying that you were being sexist! Sorry if you thought that's what I meant.
I was pointing out that situation "males reacting to females" is sexist, because it wasn't framed as "males versus females," it was framed as "geeks versus females." (originally). The fact that it automatically translated to "males versus females" would indicate the belief that geeks = males, which is a sexist behavior in that it assumes the geek culture is for guys.
Does that make more sense?
The ultimate irony of geek hate: if geeks believe the stuff they've been into all this time is really that cool, they should be happy when more people experience it, to whatever degree.
Geeks have this problem where they can take the thing they see themselves as wardens of and strangle it to death with a grip around its throat.
The ultimate irony of geek hate: if geeks believe the stuff they've been into all this time is really that cool, they should be happy when more people experience it, to whatever degree.
Geeks have this problem where they can take the thing they see themselves as wardens of and strangle it to death with a grip around its throat.
If you believe having won is becoming a part of the Hollywood entertainment industry, another dumb and flavorless piece of crappy commodity then yes, geek culture has won. For fifteen years at least now.
Has geek culture really won, or has it been co-opted and exploited by the masses? We've come a long way since Public Enemy hit the airwaves, and where is "black culture" right now? Oh, right.
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Yay, Star Trek, Star Wars, and Marvel are the biggest things out there, but are they really "geek culture?"
Read this earlier today, fantastic read and a much needed highlight.
I adore Greg Rucka's response to a fake geek girl t shirt
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"Hello, I'm Chris Hardwick, thank you for coming to San Diego Comic-Con, I'm the moderator of today's panel: "We Won! Why Geeks are Awesome and You Shouldn't Be a Dick." With me are guests The Mythbusters, Wil Wheaton, Felicia Day, and Kevin Smith. Now, before we start, you're probably like "That shirt you're wearing with the illustration by the Penny Arcade guys is pretty damn slick, where can I get that?" Well, we'll be selling some at the Geek & Sundry merch table after the panel, but if you get in line to ask a question - and by ask a question I mean make a fawning statement about our awesomeness to raucous applause - you'll get a free shirt. But you don't get a shirt if you're a dick."
^ its not that the geeks won its that their culture has been co-opted by the mainstream. Nerd culture is in chic right now so your going to get the same assholes who follow every other mainstream thing pontificating about about comic book movies.
And then the sudden realization that the fact that you liked comic books and video games never really mattered and your social awkwardness was all about you the whole time, not the things you liked, which, for some people, causes them to double down on the whole deal because "the problem couldn't have been me all along could it? COULD IT? No...I'm not crazy. THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE CRAZY!!!"
Short sighteness, tunnel vision, the shit we have and are while young.
::Shrugs::
I have been fighting against the 'fake geek girl' shit my entire life. Being marginally attractive AND into video games, comics and fandom apparently means I just do it for the attention, or I jumped on the bandwagon to 'fit in'. Which is fucking annoying. Never mind that I was playing Magic the Gathering back in 94' for gods sake.
It also makes me insanely protective of other marginally attractive geek girls that get shit on for being 'fake'. Like Felica Day. Yeah, she's popular now, but I've been a fan of hers forever and no, she's not fake. She got into acting with the express purpose to meet Joss Whedon. When Buffy was airing. When Dollhouse was failing, she went behind the studios back to help create an ARG (that I co-ran) to try and drum up interest in the show. She created the Guild because she was passionate about gaming, not because she was wanted attention. She wanted to draw attention to gaming, sure.
It just annoys the ever loving fuck out of me that girls in gaming or geeky hobbies have to CONSTANTLY defend against accusations of being fake. Especially if they aren't the stereotype of 'ugly overweight' that people seem to have painted geek girls into.
They definitely didn't looseBecause they didn't win.