After coming dead-last with a supposedly high-tier deck, anything would have been considered a victory that evening.
Why Hasn't Geek Culture Figured Out They Won?
- Thread starter BenjaminBirdie
- Start date
- Status
After coming dead-last with a supposedly high-tier deck, anything would have been considered a victory that evening.
Pretty much this.
There's two types of geeks:
- Geeks who have no problem dealing with non-geeks.
- Geeks who think non-geeks are "proles", or some other pretentious word.
I don't think I ever saw a Tomboy at my school, let alone class :/
DoktorEvil
Banned
First things first. Sexism is a real problem in "geek culture" and I think it's the main culprit to a lot of these types of reactions. The way girls are perceived by a lot of people in these circles is disgusting and has no excuse.
That said, I think the notion that "geeks won" is wrong. Mainstream accepting comic book movies (not comic books itself) is not winning.
The way "geeks" enjoy their entertainment is very different of how the mainstream does it. Geeks like to discuss the most small things and take things very seriously. It's just how we do it and I know a lot of people here identify with that I'm sure.
The problem comes when the mainstream starts watching and liking these kinds of things but they don't do it the same way and it can be alienating. It's not like everyone is a geek now. It's not really winning because you are still alienated from the "normal" people because you don't like things the same way they do, even if you do watch the same movies. You are still an outcast in a different way.
Now, just to clarify, I don't think this is what is happening here. And I'm not justifying the disgusting sexism that exists. I'm just talking about the notion of geeks being accepted and "winning".
That said, I think the notion that "geeks won" is wrong. Mainstream accepting comic book movies (not comic books itself) is not winning.
The way "geeks" enjoy their entertainment is very different of how the mainstream does it. Geeks like to discuss the most small things and take things very seriously. It's just how we do it and I know a lot of people here identify with that I'm sure.
The problem comes when the mainstream starts watching and liking these kinds of things but they don't do it the same way and it can be alienating. It's not like everyone is a geek now. It's not really winning because you are still alienated from the "normal" people because you don't like things the same way they do, even if you do watch the same movies. You are still an outcast in a different way.
Now, just to clarify, I don't think this is what is happening here. And I'm not justifying the disgusting sexism that exists. I'm just talking about the notion of geeks being accepted and "winning".
I think that's partially true—we certainly pick apart even the things we love.
But I think another issue now as "geek culture" spreads is we have to acknowledge there are geeks out there who are jerks, people passionate about the same stuff as you who are racists or think saying sexist stuff is fine.
Geek culture is by its very nature very inclusive, because hey, back in the day nerds had to band together. But that inclusive nature means that I think as a whole people are very wary of playing the arbiter of status and kicking people out. And maybe the solution isn't trying to shame and drum out people like the fighting video game guy who was taunting his female opponent, or people who jump on critical reviews and use invective and muck rather than real argument, but you certainly can't avoid it.
There's also, as I think people were touching in the concurrent sci-fi/fantasy representation thread, a widening of the traditional demographic, and I think some people feel threatened by that in the same way a hipster feels his band has "sold out" if they get too big. It's a very understandable apprehension warped into something irrational.
I think this is a good point too. It's not like geeks and nerds "took over". They just became a valuable market segment.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Geek culture is extremely inclusionary. You have to prove your worth and if you criticize or don't fit into the mold you are ostracized. I think it's toxic.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
You could say fanboy is the omega evolution of the geek.
teruterubozu
Member
Yup. Being a targeted consumer isn't exactly "winning".
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Sticking with the forlorn HS table example for now. For someone to concede that attractive women have the same tastes as them and still don't find them desirable is an ego blow that I don't think many can handle. It requires a bit of introspection that conflicts with the common narrative that "Women are shallow bitches who only like muscles and cars and money. That's why I'm single."
Some guys are just straight up assholes, and that comes in every walk of life, not just traditional geek culture. Sports fans, weightlifting enthusiasts, and racing fans can be just as bad, sometimes worse. I don't think anyone can argue that misogyny is exclusive to geek culture, only that the reasoning behind it can be unique.
Some guys are just straight up assholes, and that comes in every walk of life, not just traditional geek culture. Sports fans, weightlifting enthusiasts, and racing fans can be just as bad, sometimes worse. I don't think anyone can argue that misogyny is exclusive to geek culture, only that the reasoning behind it can be unique.
It's interesting you argue the exact opposite of what I do, but in a way I think we're both right. There's some level of social gaming going on where your level of arcana knowledge raises your prestige, depending on what geek circles you inhabit.
Read this earlier today, fantastic read and a much needed highlight.
I adore Greg Rucka's response to a fake geek girl t shirt
I can't really support this guy. Yeah, your daughter shouldn't be told she doesn't belong because of non-existent reasons beyond gender, but the "mouthbreather" and "piteous appendage" not only come off as 'I'm unable to talk about stuff rationally and this is just invective', but it also ignores the fact that it's not just "mouthbreathers" that are at fault here. It's a societal responsibility we have, and there are plenty of good people who unwittingly or no cause some of these issues.
This a good point.
I think a lot of geeks use the "I like geek things and that's why girls don't like me" as an excuse probably more than other cultures and that why is amplified in these circles.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
True. Gaming, pop and geek culture has melded but to get into the industry or accepted as knowledgeable you have to fit in which makes for the diversity problems which are very problematic.
If by geek culture (EDIT for clarification: I mean those interested in comic-book movie adaptations, falling in line with the context used in the article) they mean pop culture, then sure. They're the same thing nowadays. Feeling like you "own" it is silly because it's basically everywhere.
Labels are dumb and the internet is full of dicks. News at 11.
Labels are dumb and the internet is full of dicks. News at 11.
I didn't use the term "male geeks" because he was talking about men therefore it was implicit.
I agree with what you said and I wasn't implying otherwise or did I say anything of that nature.
I came to share that Greg Rucka link, because Rucka kicks ass, and I get the same burn when I see geeksters drawing imaginary lines between the "true geeks" and the "posers."
Anyone is welcome to join the geek parade. Grab yourself a dorky t-shirt, get obsessed about a cartoon or a game or an action figure, and come on along.
Anyone is welcome to join the geek parade. Grab yourself a dorky t-shirt, get obsessed about a cartoon or a game or an action figure, and come on along.
You should really read posts in full.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I knew one that I didn't keep contact with and my friend told me that she got sex reassignment surgery and is now a man.
Seriously.
I agree with you and I'm sad Zeliard killed you.
User 100115
Banned
I have been fighting against the 'fake geek girl' shit my entire life. Being marginally attractive AND into video games, comics and fandom apparently means I just do it for the attention, or I jumped on the bandwagon to 'fit in'. Which is fucking annoying. Never mind that I was playing Magic the Gathering back in 94' for gods sake.
It also makes me insanely protective of other marginally attractive geek girls that get shit on for being 'fake'. Like Felica Day. Yeah, she's popular now, but I've been a fan of hers forever and no, she's not fake. She got into acting with the express purpose to meet Joss Whedon. When Buffy was airing. When Dollhouse was failing, she went behind the studios back to help create an ARG (that I co-ran) to try and drum up interest in the show. She created the Guild because she was passionate about gaming, not because she was wanted attention. She wanted to draw attention to gaming, sure.
It just annoys the ever loving fuck out of me that girls in gaming or geeky hobbies have to CONSTANTLY defend against accusations of being fake. Especially if they aren't the stereotype of 'ugly overweight' that people seem to have painted geek girls into.
It also makes me insanely protective of other marginally attractive geek girls that get shit on for being 'fake'. Like Felica Day. Yeah, she's popular now, but I've been a fan of hers forever and no, she's not fake. She got into acting with the express purpose to meet Joss Whedon. When Buffy was airing. When Dollhouse was failing, she went behind the studios back to help create an ARG (that I co-ran) to try and drum up interest in the show. She created the Guild because she was passionate about gaming, not because she was wanted attention. She wanted to draw attention to gaming, sure.
It just annoys the ever loving fuck out of me that girls in gaming or geeky hobbies have to CONSTANTLY defend against accusations of being fake. Especially if they aren't the stereotype of 'ugly overweight' that people seem to have painted geek girls into.
You're the one that's cool Fiction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFhgupR565Q
I started MtG around Mirage, 5th edition.
That wasn't the case here. It wasn't implicit that geek meant a "male geek" because of misogyny but because the post I was referring too was talking about male reactions. I used in the context of male geeks because it made sense in the conversation not because of a cultural relation.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I think you can say that for most exclusionary groups. Fraternities, club teams, and even anime clubs.
I wouldn't necessarily call a fanboy a geek. The terms aren't mutually exclusive. A geek can certainly be a fanboy but a fanboy can be a geek or a jock or a tomboy or w/e disambiguation still exists in HS. Ask the people in NY about fanboydom and they'll talk about baseball or basketball whatever sport is hot right now.
He was talking about how those men perceived women. That's a male reaction. How is that statement sexist?
I used the term geek referring to those male geeks he was talking about. It was implicit in the dialogue. Of course if you take it out of the context you can say it was sexism, but there is a context behind it.
I'm not sure you get what I mean. I'm not saying it's implicit for one genre. I'm saying it is implicit what I was referring to in that exchange.
Kinda, yeah. Though a lot of it, in my experience, also stems from the idea that if "they" get into what "I" like and "they" become better than "me" at said things, what will become of "me"?
And then the sudden realization that the fact that you liked comic books and video games never really mattered and your social awkwardness was all about you the whole time, not the things you liked, which, for some people, causes them to double down on the whole deal because "the problem couldn't have been me all along could it? COULD IT? No...I'm not crazy. THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE CRAZY!!!"
Short sighteness, tunnel vision, the shit we have and are while young.
::Shrugs::
Punk never died. It just changed.
What I said or what he said?
I wasn't talking about males vs females. I was talking about how some males react to females and speculating on why that happened. This is a reality that happens and talking about that reality isn't sexist.
Talking about how some males react to females isn't sexist. It's a thing that happens and we were discussing it. How come discussing sexist behaviour is sexist in itself?
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Daphne's Greek fast food is a gateway drug.
Xenon
Member
Wow looks great and healthy, I live in Chicago where light and Greek food are never mentioned in the same conversation.
Ah okay. I get what you are saying and yes, that would've been sexist.
But he was talking about man in general so when I said geek I was specifying the type of man I was talking.
I get why you would thing the question was framed that way but I didn't mean it like that.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
A lot of geeks have internalized the various forms of, hmm. abuse they'd taken over the years, turning into their own insular culture.
Apart from retro gaming, I am not really vested in geek culture, but I can understand why many of the original niche find this newfangled mainstream embrace of it worrisome. Many times, things with a niche following tend to blow up, and then get used and abused and watered down and finally spit out by the corporatist, capitalist grinder, and then turn into a laughing stock. Unfortunately, sometimes the OGs take their anxiety over this out on the newfangled fanbase.
Though the mysogyny isn't just a geek culture thing... plenty of times I've seen that shit happen in the DJing/electronic music scene - "she can't mix for shit... she only gets booked because she's attractive"... sigh.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
If you believe having won is becoming a part of the Hollywood entertainment industry, another dumb and flavorless piece of crappy commodity then yes, geek culture has won. For fifteen years at least now.
That's sort of the other side of it too.
In the eyes of the militantly geeky, Geeks didn't "win", they had what they liked "stolen" away, changed, then rereleased for people who never cared to like.
I mean honestly, even here, how much shit does COD and Madden get for being "the bro game"?
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Has geek culture really won, or has it been co-opted and exploited by the masses? We've come a long way since Public Enemy hit the airwaves, and where is "black culture" right now? Oh, right.
Yay, Star Trek, Star Wars, and Marvel are the biggest things out there, but are they really "geek culture?"
^ its not that the geeks won its that their culture has been co-opted by the mainstream. Nerd culture is in chic right now so your going to get the same assholes who follow every other mainstream thing pontificating about about comic book movies.
Vermillion
Banned
It depends on what sort of geek culture you're talking about, really.
cheezcake
Member
Geek pretty much refers to people obsessed with certain hobbies. Sometimes people get so dangerously emotionally attached to some 'geek' stuff that whenever they see someone criticise it they go fucking bonkers. Hell we see it on GAF review threads all the time. This is probably the worst offender I've seen:
Uncharted 3 Review Thread
The same thing happened on the Avengers rotten tomatoes page and it was fucking disgusting. Its always the female reviewers who get disproportionately attacked.
Holy shit this is the best thing I've read on the internet in weeks
Uncharted 3 Review Thread
The same thing happened on the Avengers rotten tomatoes page and it was fucking disgusting. Its always the female reviewers who get disproportionately attacked.
Read this earlier today, fantastic read and a much needed highlight.
I adore Greg Rucka's response to a fake geek girl t shirt
Holy shit this is the best thing I've read on the internet in weeks
And Alan Moore looks on in hatred.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No, the point of the article is that the mainstream writers/commenters are actually more accepting and more open, and often have something insightful to say, and that the long-standing members of "nerd culture" are being the assholes in increasing numbers.
Basically, Geeks reclaimed the word geek from negativity, and as such the culture grew, spread, and was accepted on a much wider basis than before. And now there are those who don't like the idea of that happening, who are reclaiming the word Geek back into the negative, and in doing so are shifting the term "Geek" into "someone who is into pop-culture who is shortsighted, sexist, homophobic, and angry about the concept of change in general"
"Geek Culture" didn't get co-opted by anyone that wasn't already providing Geeks their culture in the first place. Punks made their own music. Same with Hip-Hop. They made their own art out of what they had. But being a geek is absolutely defined by buying something some larger company has been selling you. It's almost impossible to be a geek without being tied up in the consuming of mass-produced product of one sort or another, be it comics, or TV shows, or movies, or video games, etc. etc.
So railing against "the mainstream" will always ring false to some extent because of that.
There we go.
Messofanego
Banned
I assume "geek culture" refers to things like technology, comics, videogames, ect? I think its more a case of people who love "a thing" are extremely defensive of it, it doesn't matter what the thing is or who is saying it. Whether its geek, pop, political, sports, or any other form of sub culture there are rabid and shitty people who cannot accept a dissenting opinion about it.
I remember having to constantly remind some of the dumbasses on here whenever there was a thread centered around Felicia -- that naturally devolved into fake geek girl nonsense -- having to come in and be like, "uh, her favourite game is planescape Torment, she has more 'cred' than probably half of you do."
Messofanego
Banned
Read the review that got these people into a tizzy. Was fine! Nothing insulting, just a good review that highlights that maybe one-liner jokes can't save a typical action blockbuster. Of course, going to see it tomorrow to form my own opinion but there's nothing unreasonable in that review.
They definitely didn't loose
- Status