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Why Is China So … Uncool?

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Blablurn

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foreignpolicy.com
Why Is China So … Uncool?
Emily Tamkin | 7 hours ago

There’s been much talk in recent weeks about China’s potential role as world leader, during a time when Trump’s America is erecting walls. China has nearly all the characteristics to lead effectively, with its willingness to engage in global trade and its promises to fight climate change, all backed by its economic and military gravitas. Despite all this, China still isn’t beloved abroad, at least not to the extent that America is. China’s music, movies, and fashions are relatively unpopular. Put another way, China is not seen as cool; its pop culture and pop stars lack global swagger. The question is why, and whether that matters.

The quest for cool is key to a country’s so-called soft power. Unlike hard power, which is the ability to get what one wants through coercion or payment, soft power usually comes in the form of seduction — via culture, political values, or foreign policies that have moral authority. It’s this power that China, unlike the United States, lacks.

The consequences of being uncool are real, and often political.

The consequences of being uncool are real, and often political. Take Hong Kong: The Chinese city-state was handed over to Great Britain in 1842 after military defeat. Even though the territory was the United Kingdom’s spoil of war, people from the mainland migrated there in droves during China’s more tumultuous years. Hong Kong was returned to China two decades ago, yet many Hong Kongers today continue to embrace the democratic values of free elections and free speech the UK inculcated, and residents made these values known during the Umbrella Movement.

By contrast, pop culture contributed to America’s victory during the Cold War. According to Joseph Nye, a Harvard scholar and father of the “soft power” term, “Soviet state-run propaganda and culture programs could not keep pace with the influence of America’s commercial popular culture in flexibility or attraction. Long before the Berlin Wall fell in 1989, it had been pierced by television and movies.” Today, if people in Eurasia were all fans of Chinese pop music or television dramas, or had a more positive image of China, it might be easier for their governments to partner with Beijing on “win-win” initiatives like One Belt One Road.

While China’s political model is unpopular in Europe and the United States, its command-and-control economic model is admired across the developing world, where China also invests in infrastructure projects and sometimes provides aid. China’s willingness to engage with emerging markets has likely improved its image in those regions. While only 38 percent of Americans and 41 percent of Europeans view China favorably, more than half of Africans (70 percent) and Latin Americans (57 percent) see China in a positive light, according to 2015 Pew Research Center surveys.

Yet few people in those developing nations have fallen in love with China the way they might fall in love with the United States. This is largely because China’s pop culture lacks emotional, artistic, or sex appeal. A 2013 Pew survey found that just 25 percent of Latin Americans and 34 percent of Africans have favorable opinions of Chinese music, movies, or television, while more than half view U.S. cultural products favorably.

China’s soft power deficiency has been the subject of considerable personal angst. I grew up as a minority in suburban New Jersey, a place where I have never been considered cool, despite going through all the required motions: playing the guitar, trying to skateboard, and driving a fast car. I can’t fully blame my Chinese ethnicity for my lack of coolness — part of it is rooted in anti-Chinese sentiments throughout U.S. history — but being an immigrant from the mainland certainly did not help.

I wasn’t cool in the United States, and I’m usually not cool in China, where I live now — at least not until people find out that I grew up Stateside. Then people here look at me with new eyes. They start to admire the clothes I wear, the music I listen to, and the books I read. This fawning is doubled for my white American friends.

In much of China today, telling people that you’re from the United States can transform you into a minor celebrity.

Despite high levels of nationalism and rising income in China, people there still turn to the United States, Europe, South Korea, and even erstwhile wartime enemy Japan for entertainment. (Pop culture from Taiwan and Hong Kong, with relatively tiny populations, is also considered much cooler than that from the mainland.) When my Chinese friends share WeChat posts, they like to show that they traveled to non-Chinese locations, and they like to write their status updates in non-Chinese languages. For as long as I can remember, the more a Chinese person travels abroad, the more socially attractive he or she becomes.

This wasn’t always the case. For millennia, Chinese culture was a thing of envy and imitation. China produced cultural icons like poet Li Bai and philosopher Confucius. The Tang Dynasty’s designs were the basis of Japanese architectural aesthetics, and elements of Confucian teachings became core tenets of the Korean social order. China expected tributary payments from other countries, so much so that officials misinterpreted the items that England’s King George III fatefully presented to open up trade as homages to the Yellow Emperor.

China’s golden age was so admirable that, even today, China’s propaganda department peddles its ancient cultural products abroad — in part because it has nothing else, really, to offer. The fact that a country invented gunpowder brings it only so much social capital. “That’s like if your girlfriend’s family asks if you are wealthy, and you tell them that your ancestors are wealthy,” noted popular Chinese blogger Han Han. “It is useless.”

After China lost the Opium War, it adopted a strategy known as zhong ti xi yong (中体西用), meaning, “adopting Western knowledge for its practical uses while keeping Chinese values as the core.” These methods are evident today in the Chinese government’s use of pop music and Hollywood. More often than not, the results are wooden.

It’s an old maxim that trying too hard to be cool backfires. Just look at the Chinese Communist Party, which has been flummoxed by the question of how to improve its cultural image. China’s top-down efforts to expand soft power gained momentum in 2007, when the Party’s then-General Secretary Hu Jintao announced that China needed to “vigorously develop the cultural industry” and to “enhance the industry’s international competitiveness.” In June 2016, Hu’s successor, Xi Jinping, criticized the nation’s propaganda bureau for failing to reach younger audiences and called on them to be more innovative

The Party’s soft power failures are especially visible in the music industry. One of China’s most cringe-worthy efforts is a hip hop music video aimed at millennials abroad entitled “This is China,” produced by China’s Communist Youth League and the rap group Chengdu Revolution. The video promotes China with rambling lyrics like, “First things first, we all know that China is a developing country. It has large population and it is really hard to manage,” and the gem, “As for scientific achievement, we have [Nobel prize winner] Tu Youyou, who discovered AstemisininThe only way Chinese state media could out-do itself on this one is if it were to, say, promote a rap song praising Karl Marx.

In music, China nurses the notion that it can factory-produce the next big global pop celebrity, much the way China produced basketball star Yao Ming, a 7 foot 6 inch, 300-pound outlier. In 2011, the state-sponsored Shanghai Synergy record label signed the singer Ruhan Jia, with the explicit goal of transforming her into an international sensation. In her Shanghai studio, she practices English, studies Eminem, Whitney Houston, and Michael Jackson, and cultivates her squeaky-clean image. She made her American debut nearly five years ago in The Ran Tea House in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, according to a 2012 Bloomberg report. But today, few in the U.S. or even China have ever heard of her.

It’s not that Chinese artists lack creativity, style, or taste; they also have to overcome both an overweening state and the expectations and stereotypes of older Chinese, and of Western audiences.

Michael Pettis, a widely cited professor of finance at Beijing University, is also founder of Maybe Mars, one of China’s largest independent record companies. Pettis told Foreign Policy that exciting happenings in China’s music scene go largely unnoticed, because people around the world often can’t see past negative Chinese stereotypes: from smart students who eat together and never talk to tourists who defecate on the street. “It’s an unfair image because there is this developing cool within China,” said Pettis, who has signed pioneering bands like Carsick Cars and P.K. 14 to his label.

Another reason that quality music gets overlooked is that there is a generation gap within China between the government officials, parents, and teachers in charge, and China’s younger creative class. Authority figures were scarred by the Cultural Revolution, while the latter grew up under rapid urbanization and economic change. The most creative Chinese people lead lives similar to taste-making urbanites elsewhere; they are young, travel via subway, hang out in cafes and clubs, and are often on their computers or smart phones even more than Americans or Europeans. Pettis is impatient with those who search for their own idea of “authentic” Chinese culture, a situation exacerbated by government promos. “Whatever [Chinese youth] end up doing, it’s not going to sound like Mongolian horseman, or Xinjiangese farmers, or peasants in Yunnan province, which is sort of what [consumers] are looking for,” he said.

The clashing expectations of older Chinese, younger Chinese, Beijing censors, and the West can make it hard to create widely resonant works. Hollywood and state-backed Chinese studios recently coproduced a $150 million movie, “The Great Wall.” The ambitious film somehow managed to receive criticism for both whitewashing (it starred Matt Damon) and pandering to China (Matt Damon becomes humbled by Chinese virtues). It flopped in its opening weekend in the United States.

In another instance, director Lu Chuan (known for “City of Life and Death”) agreed to produce an animated film in 2006 for the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games. But he quickly found that the government had inflexible demands on how the film should promote Chinese culture. “Under such pressure, my co-workers and I really felt stifled,” Lu wrote in China Daily. “The fun and joy from doing something interesting left us, together with our imagination and creativity.”

And when the China Film Directors Guild awarded the 2013 director of the year award to Feng Xiaogang, often called the Spielberg of China, Feng gave an acceptance speech lamenting the censorship that Chinese directors must overcome. “Are Hollywood directors tormented the same way?” Feng asked. “To get approval, I have to cut my films in a way that makes them bad.” His speech went viral on Chinese social media.

Some counter that the lack of Chinese cool is rooted in China’s traditions; that while the West values individuality, China values the group, so much so that the Chinese would rather conform to the masses than explore new paths. Others blame Chinese students’ educational development, especially during the hellish year leading up to Gaokao exams, when many do almost nothing but study and sleep.

William C. Kirby, a professor of China Studies at Harvard who has also taught in China, cautions against assuming “that because of their educational experience the Americans are problem-solving innovators as a birth right and the Chinese are rote memorizers with no independence of thought.” Kirby told FP he is more worried about the government’s ideological purity campaign, which has recently made its way onto college campuses. Xi, for example, has tightened the Party’s grip over lesson plans, with visions to turn colleges into strongholds that obey Party leadership.

“Great universities in China, one could fear, would end up with two types of graduates,” Kirby said. “The large majority being cynical of what they are being taught, which is never a good thing; and a small minority being opportunists, who say whatever they need to say to get ahead.”

China needs to rethink some of its soft power strategies and political values, and in the process rebrand itself — if not for its image abroad, then for its own people at home. China has the world’s largest middle class, as well as the world’s largest population of billionaires. These facts suggest that Chinese consumers should be world’s new tastemakers. But their current tastes in entertainment and fashion are largely sourced from outside the country.


One trend that must be particularly baffling to Chinese bureaucrats is how comparatively tiny South Korea has reaped the economic and social benefits of hallyu, meaning the flow of South Korean culture abroad. As in China, the Korean government invests heavily in its domestic entertainment industry, with the ultimate goal of exporting its cultural products. It seems to work in Korea, while China, with more than 20 times as many potential pop artists to nurture, flails.

Today, China’s soft power goals contain an inherent contradiction: the country wants to use media as a tool to guide public values in the Leninist tradition, and at the same time hopes to create entertainment products that are well received worldwide. In liberal democracies, art and culture — which often emerge from society’s fringes — tell us something about life, occasionally shaping national priorities in the process. But in China, it’s national priorities that shape art.

It’s not out of the question that U.S. President Donald Trump’s antics and policies — his Muslim ban, or his promised wall building, or his sexism — will leave a soft-power vacuum around the world that China can try to fill. It may become less cool to be, or act like, an American. If Xi provides enough space for China’s creative class to grow, then China’s cultural products will have a much better chance of succeeding worldwide, and the Chinese could emerge from the Trump era in a much more positive light.

But Beijing still fails to grasp that soft power arises when individuals have room to create and grow — without fear of censorship or the need to conform to a government agenda. Popular culture becomes popular because, somewhere along the way, it pushes the boundaries of what is socially acceptable or recognized. Personally, I wouldn’t mind a world where donning a backwards red cap with yellow stars is in vogue, where the viral songs are sung in Mandarin, and where the Chinese heroes get the glory. That won’t happen until the Communist Party quits cramping China’s style.

Guang Niu/Getty Images

Source: http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/08...soft-power-beijing-censorship-generation-gap/

That's a great article on why China is lacking big time in terms of softpower, especially compared to the US. It will definitely give you guys a good insight into todays China and its culture.
 

VeeP

Member
tumblr_mjbbn5r1uP1qh59n0o1_250.gif
 

Azoor

Member
The Chinese government does not value individual freedoms at all.

Also, I am curious what developing nations the article was talking about who liked China's way of governing.
 
Probably because you can't masterplan cultural exports. It has to be done organically and with liberal policies of expression. China is definitely capable of being cool though, just look at their influence hundreds of years ago in the Koreas, Japan and in varying degrees in Southeast Asia. They just need to let loose.
 

Erevador

Member
Cultural revolution attempted to wipe out China's fascinating, ancient culture. Forced collectivism and censorship backed up with violence is a surefire way to wipe out the arts and make your society appear (not without cause) closed and sinister.

China is a mass of contradictions that they will be attempt to reconcile over the next century.
 

Makonero

Member
Without freedom to express yourself in spite of cultural taboos and boundaries, you can't create really resonant works of culture. It's just really damn hard.
 

East Lake

Member
BEIJING, Dec. 1 (Xinhua) -- China's media and film watchdog said on Monday that it will send artists to live in grassroots communities for inspiration.

The State General Administration of Press, Publication, Radio, Film and Television will organize film and TV series production staff on a quarterly basis to go to grassroots communities, villages and mining sites to do field study and experience life, it said in a statement.

The administration will also send scriptwriters, directors and major casting staff for five films and TV programs on a given theme to live among the masses each year.

In addition, it will choose 100 broadcasters, anchors and directors each year from central and local art programs to work in ethnic minority and border areas, and areas that made major contributions to the country's victory in the revolutionary war.

These literary and art workers should live among the masses for at least 30 days, it said.

The administration said the move will be a boost in helping artists form a correct view of art and create more masterpieces. It plans to make the program a long-term practice.

The campaign came after a central authority meeting earlier in October on art and literature, which was presided over by President Xi Jinping. Xi urged artists to create more works that are both artistically outstanding and morally inspiring to serve the people and present socialist core values.

Xi told artists not to be "slaves" of the market and said their work should not bear "the stench of money."

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-12/01/c_133826019.htm
 

Erevador

Member
Well censorsed art can't ever be cool. Also Jackie Chan used to be cool.
Jackie Chan comes from Hong Kong. Hong Kong culture is completely different because it wasn't wiped out by cultural revolution.

Hong Kong cinema and art is spectacular.
 

CHC

Member
Well, I mean, China might be making strides in realms like climate change right now, but they have not really done a lot to engender a good international reputation over the last.... 50 years or more, really.

Sure, they aren't outright warmongers, but among most people in the West, China has a reputation as a freely polluting exporter of mostly cheaply made goods, with little regard for human rights or the culture of neighboring areas like Tibet (or, hell, even its own pre-communist culture). They've also been alarmingly soft on North Korea, although it would certainly take more than just Chinese effort to strangle that beast if it's even possible.

In any case, I don't think all of that is true, nor can you really label an entire nation as "cool" or "uncool" or "good" or "bad guys," (OK, some are bad guys). But by the same token I don't think it's really a mystery why their international reputation is kind of middling right now. You don't just become the "cool" guys in the span of a couple years.
 

Triteon

Member
They dont like skellingtons in their media.

Skellingtons are the coolest. Ergo China is not cool.


But honestly i think the state control of art is leading to a whole lot of meh.

When i was growing up the coolest shit was coming out of HK. The chinese media i do get around to watching nowadays seems bland in comparison.
 
> China still isn’t beloved abroad, at least not to the extent that America is


As an asian, i agree China isn't cool going by its past behavior.....but c'mo Americans, you guys are no better.

Many in Asia look at America's policy (lack of gun control, constant ridiculous 'free-speech' rhetoric, imposing their idea of 'freedom' on other countries through the use of military might, wall street and their fucking banking system that affected the world whether we want it or not......on top of their current idiot president) with disdain and ridicule.

You are entitled to criticize other countries, oh Yankees.....but for your own sake, please take a look at the mirror as well.

You are not that 'cool' either.
 

FUME5

Member
China has deliberately destroyed facets of its former culture and the arts are censored, don't need the thousand words of propaganda you posted to understand that.
 

Ratrat

Member
I dont think Americans are that loved.

Also China can have the best film directors and musicians and the West will just ignore it like everything else.
 
I can't speak for everyone but despite the pervasiveness of American culture, people in Australia really don't seem to like America or Americans very much. It's like there's movie Americans who are cool, and real life Americans who are loathed.
 

F!ReW!Re

Member
Because there's still too much of a strangle hold on entertainment and free thinking by the government.
Heck political affairs and foreign disputes often lead to the government banning or limiting foreign products/artists as a kind of childish eye for an eye approach or boycotting products from other countries.
See Korean/Japanese/Taiwanese music, artists, tv shows,movies getting boycotted by the Chinese government (or even the people themselves) whenever a minor thing happens.

Just look at the South China sea stuff a couple of months ago where people would suddenly start smashing their iphones and protest infront of KFC's in China as a result of the USA's stance on the matter (although it was actually the result of a court based in The Hague, The Netherlands).

I can't speak for everyone but despite the pervasiveness of American culture, people in Australia really don't seem to like America or Americans very much. It's like there's movie Americans who are cool, and real life Americans who are loathed.

Going off-topic here, but I've been in Australia since November now and it's funny that you mention it but this place does remind me a heck of a lot of the US.
The dudebro attitude, the driving everywhere based country layout (yeah I get it's a big and wide country, but people use their car for everything here), the fast food (supersize me) culture.
(disclaimer: I'm using obvious hyperbole, but still)
 
China has deliberately destroyed facets of its former culture and the arts are censored, don't need the thousand words of propaganda you posted to understand that.

that's the cultural revolution which...believe it or not.....even the current chinese administration is ashamed that it happened...

the cultural revolution itself is a whole can of worms but it has nothing to do with the current CCP.....please read up on it if you are ignorant of how it came to be.

You can blame current china for censorship, lack of human rights, etc...that's all true.

But the Cultural Revolution is not the fault of the current administration.....nor are they proud of it.
 

wandering

Banned
China has deliberately destroyed facets of its former culture and the arts are censored, don't need the thousand words of propaganda you posted to understand that.

Propaganda? You do realize the article is from an American magazine, right?
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
> China still isn’t beloved abroad, at least not to the extent that America is


As an asian, i agree China isn't cool going by its past behavior.....but c'mo Americans, you guys are no better.

Many in Asia look at America's policy (lack of gun control, constant ridiculous 'free-speech' rhetoric, imposing their idea of 'freedom' on other countries through the use of military might, wall street and their fucking banking system that affected the world whether we want it or not......on top of their current idiot president) with disdain and ridicule.

You are entitled to criticize other countries, oh Yankees.....but for your own sake, please take a look at the mirror as well.

You are not that 'cool' either.

I think what the OP is talking about is cultural exports like music, movies, and TV.
 

Erevador

Member
> China still isn't beloved abroad, at least not to the extent that America is


As an asian, i agree China isn't cool going by its past behavior.....but c'mo Americans, you guys are no better.

Many in Asia look at America's policy (lack of gun control, constant ridiculous 'free-speech' rhetoric, imposing their idea of 'freedom' on other countries through the use of military might, wall street and their fucking banking system that affected the world whether we want it or not......on top of their current idiot president) with disdain and ridicule.

You are entitled to criticize other countries, oh Yankees.....but for your own sake, please take a look at the mirror as well.

You are not that 'cool' either.
People I have talked to in Asia tend to widely approve of the concept of free-speech. Its the basic idea of a free society, and tends to have high currency with young people in capitalist democracies everywhere.

Also, it is impossible to say look at modern pop culture in somewhere like Korea and not see that it is massively influenced by "American cool." The fashions and musical styles of K-Pop are more or less entirely derived from American pop music and fashions, but tweaked for Korean tastes.

American soft-power in culture is so ever-present it can be almost hard to notice. It is everywhere. Can you say the same for modern China's cultural exports?

American culture in large part the pop culture of the world. One doesn't have to buy into contemporary American politics or foreign policy to nonetheless be largely a product of American cultural norms.
 
American soft power domination, if you want to call it that way, is not even 100 years old. And many Hollywood productions are already influenced by China.

Things can and will change pretty fast in all different directions.
 

Cocaloch

Member
> China still isn't beloved abroad, at least not to the extent that America is


As an asian, i agree China isn't cool going by its past behavior.....but c'mo Americans, you guys are no better.

Many in Asia look at America's policy (lack of gun control, constant ridiculous 'free-speech' rhetoric, imposing their idea of 'freedom' on other countries through the use of military might, wall street and their fucking banking system that affected the world whether we want it or not......on top of their current idiot president) with disdain and ridicule.

You are entitled to criticize other countries, oh Yankees.....but for your own sake, please take a look at the mirror as well.

You are not that 'cool' either.

In terms of soft power America is undoubtedly the most influential country in the world. I'm not sure why you would deny that. America is "cool", that really isn't a value judgement, but it is true.

Propaganda? You do realize the article is from an American magazine, right?

To be fair the OP has a history of posting propaganda.
 

Renekton

Member
Also, it is impossible to say look at modern pop culture in somewhere like Korea and not see that it is massively influenced by "American cool." The fashions and musical styles of K-Pop are more or less entirely derived from American pop music and fashions, but tweaked for Korean tastes.
I thought they just took J-Pop and TW-Pop then cranked it to eleven?
 

FUME5

Member
that's the cultural revolution which...believe it or not.....even the current chinese administration is ashamed that it happened...

the cultural revolution itself is a whole can of worms but it has nothing to do with the current CCP.....please read up on it if you are ignorant of how it came to be.

You can blame current china for censorship, lack of human rights, etc...that's all true.

But the Cultural Revolution is not the fault of the current administration.....nor are they proud of it.

I doesn't matter which regimes fault it is, it remains a factor in the continued effect on the freedom of artists to create, which is certainly not helped by the intense censorship of the current regime.

Propaganda? You do realize the article is from an American magazine, right?

Blaburn has a history of pro China postings which are light on facts, although in this post truth world I guess he's just playing by the handbook.
 

Cocaloch

Member
That's not an excuse for not reading the article or stupid namecalling. Get real.

I didn't call it an excuse, but it does make jumping to that conclusion more reasonable. I'm not going to lie when I saw who posted the thread I also assumed it was going to be propaganda. I just actually read the OP.
 
I can't speak for everyone but despite the pervasiveness of American culture, people in Australia really don't seem to like America or Americans very much. It's like there's movie Americans who are cool, and real life Americans who are loathed.


Tell me about it....

i am trying very hard not to cast a blanket stereotype on all Americans but EVERYTIME i travel to some European countries and just happen to chance upon some American tourists, their self-entitled behavior while abroad puts me off.

Just an example:

I was in Rome...Vatican City to be exact...a few years back as a tourist. Just touring and sightseeing around and i just happened to chance upon a catholic mess session. I wanted to go in but was told that mass is in session so i have to wait till it's done. Which myself and other tourists happily obliged. And then out of nowhere 2 yankees wanna go in no matter what...shouting...'But We are Americans!'

Like for fuck sakes, Americans.

And this is just one of the many examples i've encountered.


I mean...there's alot of news about Chinese tourists doing offensive and idiotic things abroad..true......but at least their excuse is that many of these chinese tourists are 'non-city dwellers'...country bumpkins if you will....and lack of proper education and knowledge on how to behave properly abroad.

Ain't America supposed to be a developed country though? You guys had no excuse!
 

Erevador

Member
I thought they just took J-Pop and TW-Pop then cranked it to eleven?
All of free Asia has been in the process of incorporating the economic and cultural products of the west into their economies and cultures since the '80s. Copying and iterating upon western economic and cultural ideas has created enormous wealth in these countries in an unbelievably short time. It is one of the marvels of the modern age to see the extraordinary transformations that have occurred through the adoption of modern market systems in these societies.

K-Pop, J-Pop, Cantopop, all are derived from the same sources. Reasoning by analogy allowed smart people to create these industries almost over night.
 

Cocaloch

Member
Tell me about it....

i am trying very hard not to cast a blanket stereotype on all Americans but EVERYTIME i travel to some European countries and just happen to chance upon some American tourists, their self-entitled behavior while abroad puts me off.

Just an example:

I was in Rome...Vatican City to be exact...a few years back as a tourist. Just touring and sightseeing around and i just happened to chance upon a catholic mess session. I wanted to go in but was told that mass is in session so i have to wait till it's done. Which myself and other tourists happily obliged. And then out of nowhere 2 yankees wanna go in no matter what...shouting...'But We are Americans!'

Like for fuck sakes, Americans.

And this is just one of the many examples i've encountered.


I mean...there's alot of news about Chinese tourists doing offensive and idiotic things abroad..true......but at least their excuse is that many of these chinese tourists are 'non-city dwellers'...country bumpkins if you will....and lack of proper education and knowledge on how to behave properly abroad.

Ain't America supposed to be a developed country though? You guys had no excuse!

This isn't what soft power is. It's just a dumb generalization.
 
there's a lot of 'do this, respect this, do this' ruleset that creators have to work around, both politically and culturally. So everything feels like a remix and minor permutation on things we've seen before. This isn't a uniquely Chinese problem by any means but deference to the rules-part of the social contract that ties together modern China-is acute in Chinese culture.

They need to be able to smash that ruleset and innovate through it. Sacred cows make for great steak.

There's also the issue of brain drain to the United States, but I believe that's much less of a problem now than it was ten or fifteen years ago.
 

Makonero

Member
Tell me about it....

i am trying very hard not to cast a blanket stereotype on all Americans but EVERYTIME i travel to some European countries and just happen to chance upon some American tourists, their self-entitled behavior while abroad puts me off.

Just an example:

I was in Rome...Vatican City to be exact...a few years back as a tourist. Just touring and sightseeing around and i just happened to chance upon a catholic mess session. I wanted to go in but was told that mass is in session so i have to wait till it's done. Which myself and other tourists happily obliged. And then out of nowhere 2 yankees wanna go in no matter what...shouting...'But We are Americans!'

Like for fuck sakes, Americans.

And this is just one of the many examples i've encountered.


I mean...there's alot of news about Chinese tourists doing offensive and idiotic things abroad..true......but at least their excuse is that many of these chinese tourists are 'non-city dwellers'...country bumpkins if you will....and lack of proper education and knowledge on how to behave properly abroad.

Ain't America supposed to be a developed country though? You guys had no excuse!
None of this is related to the idea that a lack of freedom of artistic expression is what keeps China from being cool. You're literally flailing at strawmen of your own design.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
China is cool though. They have a really cool emerging art scene in Beijing, Shenzen and Shanghai, controversial stuff too. Their big cities have cool areas, like London had Shoreditch. They have cool and successful startups like Xiaomi, Didi Chuxing and KEEP. Kids in their big towns wear three hundred dollar jeans and drink ten dollar beers. They have awesome boutique hotels. China is coming, quick.
 

Renekton

Member
Tell me about it....

i am trying very hard not to cast a blanket stereotype on all Americans but EVERYTIME i travel to some European countries and just happen to chance upon some American tourists, their self-entitled behavior while abroad puts me off.
Anecdotal but I had worse (but hilarious) experience with Australian bogans haha.

Europeans I personally encountered are just racist af especially towards Chinese like myself.

(All anecdotal)
 
None of this is related to the idea that a lack of freedom of artistic expression is what keeps China from being cool. You're literally flailing at strawmen of your own design.

i was responding to ThoseDeafMutes...

also, i find Americans lack of self-awareness about their own self-righteousness...i.e. they actually don't understand why other countries don't like americans.........alarming...

Americans like to judge other countries based on their own standards......and assuming that the 'American' standards is the only standards that matters.
 

Erevador

Member
Smart young people in free societies might not find forced collectivism and "socialist core values" particularly sexy and appealing. Shocker, I know.

People in free societies want art and culture that expresses their individuality and their experiences. A closed and restrictive culture will have difficulty producing cultural exports that resonate on that level because one is always being guided towards some kind of "socially responsible" generalization. Hip young people are on to that one very fast, and they don't like it.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
There is so much stupidity and misconceptions of Chinese art in this thread that I am compelled to dig up my old photos of all the awesome and controversial new art up in Chinese cities. Very critical, occasionally violent, thought provoking, politically non-conforming, memorable, stuff.
 

F!ReW!Re

Member
China is cool though. They have a really cool emerging art scene in Beijing, Shenzen and Shanghai, controversial stuff too. Their big cities have cool areas, like London had Shoreditch. They have cool and successful startups like Xiaomi, Didi Chuxing and KEEP. Kids in their big towns wear three hundred dollar jeans and drink ten dollar beers. They have awesome boutique hotels. China is coming, quick.

I think people agree on that, but it's more about exporting that coolness abroad.

I mean we can argue about it but Wechat is definitely the best chatapp on IOS/Android there is. But it's hard to sell that to my friends back home in the Netherlands.

Taobao is great, Didi is awesome, Xiaomi is producing great stuff at a great price.
But I can assure you that almost nobody back home has heard anything about these kind of cool developments. Or they are wary about it since it's "made in China"...
 

Erevador

Member
China is cool though. They have a really cool emerging art scene in Beijing, Shenzen and Shanghai, controversial stuff too. Their big cities have cool areas, like London had Shoreditch. They have cool and successful startups like Xiaomi, Didi Chuxing and KEEP. Kids in their big towns wear three hundred dollar jeans and drink ten dollar beers. They have awesome boutique hotels. China is coming, quick.
There is so much stupidity and misconceptions of Chinese art in this thread that I am compelled to dig up my old photos of all the awesome and controversial new art up in Chinese cities. Very critical, occasionally violent, thought provoking, politically non-conforming, memorable, stuff.
China's massively growing economy is obviously producing fascinating and off-kilter little subcultures, but these subcultures are not the cultural productions that are being exported.

Most of the culture that the wider world receives from China is state-approved, grandiose, bland, and emphasizing scale over substance.
 
There is so much stupidity and misconceptions of Chinese art in this thread that I am compelled to dig up my old photos of all the awesome and controversial new art up in Chinese cities. Very critical, occasionally violent, thought provoking, politically non-conforming, memorable, stuff.

There is a big language and cultural barrier which filters out most of the stuff to an audience which still operates in stereotypes and prejudice - there is even one guy here who is proud about it that he didn't read the OP and just went with his nonsense.

After catching up on The Three-Body Problem, I can say that it was the best and most fresh sci-fi story of an author who is still alive. I hope the movie adaptation will be able to get some international attention.
 
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