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[Ned Flanders]

This game more than any has me geeked for the 360. I figured that even if it was to be overlooked because of the genre (ie people are more interested in sports/racing games etc), that it would still get a lot of run off the graphics alone. The shader effects in this game are RIDICULOUS and I can't say that I've ever seen more convincingly detailed foliage and landscape in all my years as a graphics whore. Assuming the framerate remains solid, I can't say that I see a game topping it visually out of the launch group.

To be honest, I didn't have hardly any major qualms with the gameplay in Morrowind outside of some monotony and repetition. Most of my problems stemmed from technical/glitch issues that bogged the experience down for me (I never played the GotY edition which supposedly addressed much of that). If Oblivion can manage to spice up the combat/action (ie at least make a mage's monotony feel different from an archers etc) and make for a more seamless experience (ie no major scenery loads or LOD quirks) I think the game could be of landmark status in the pantheon of RPGs. They've already addressed the travel issues by including horses and warp points so there won't be as much unnecessary plodding around.

I personally would like to see some kind of co-op Lan play included, so that at least one other player could join into your quest to aid in dungeon raids etc. I know that becomes a technically dicey issue in a game designed for 1 player, but I don't think it would be too much interference to allow another player to use his character in a "sidekick" role on your quest (or vice versa) provided that the exp was split and that certain battles (bosses etc) were limited to only the hero. I would love to see some different combinations of character classes in action together outside the realm of an MMORPG for once, and Co-op play in general seems so overlooked nowadays in roleplaying games that aren't of the online variety. Here's hoping Bethesda can squeeze it in before release..

 

[Suikoguy]

I take it you missed this post

http://ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=49951

 

[Juice]

Because the gameplay found in Morrowind and any game like it is NICHE. It only appeals to a very limited subset of people comfortable with the D&D RPG formula.

Which isn't very many people. Sure it's beautiful. I'll pick up the PC version because of how gorgeous it'll be. But the inevitable lack of interesting things to do will probably see me giving the game up in a week. And I'm one of the people who is looking forward to the game.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yeah, too many people are oblivious to it's greatness.

 

[B E N K E]

I think this will sell a lot just on looks. It will be the most beautiful Xbox 360 when it releases and it's one of only a few that is not racing, sports or FPS. Personally I'm hyped up for this one.

 

[Optimistic]

I played Morrowind for hundreds of hours, and am eagerly looking forward to Oblivion. However, that's only on the condition that they address the following (which in some cases it's already been confirmed that they have) -

*A world that isn't completely dead. Morrowind was great for the first like, 3738393 hours, but after a while you realise that nothing you do has any impact on the world. For example, if I killed the leader of one of the three Houses, I'd fucking well expect his supporters to try and take me out. Also, I expect that at night most people have gone home instead of remaining in the streets in the same spot they've been in since, well, ever. I expect to see people other than myself going toa nd fro businesses and homes, delivering shit, buying junk, etc etc. NOTHING FUCKING happens in the damn game. If this doesn't change (and apparently it will be different in Oblivion), then it's a worthless addition to the series.

*The colour brown. It's like the MGS2 of the Xbox, only everything's a different shade of brown instead of green. Morrowind is possibly the ugliest game I've ever played. technically nice, sure, but jesus christ that's one ugly bitch of a game. Luckily Oblivion seems to ahve addressed that - I just hope the environment is more varied - forests are great but I'd like to see some variety in the environment.

*Alternate modes of transport - if I can't buy a horse (with optional cart or caravan), I'm going to be really pissed off. Sure, there were those big bug things that took you from city to city in Morrowind, but you couldn't explore the wilderness on them. No, instead you had to spend hours slowly, oh so slowly walking around. I'd also like to see boats and ships - I always wondered how the hell there could be shipwrecks when there are never any fucking boats around.

*More than one music track

*Less level grinding - the level grind in Morrowind was enjoyable initially, but after a while...there are just so many skills that each take so long to improve, it would just be better if they either massively decreased the experience points needed for each level, OR devised a different system altogether.

*Way more polish, way fewer bugs

*A dynamic weather system - I want to see a full fledged seasonal system. I want to see snow storms, rain storms, sunny days, wind etc etc



Fable had a lot of what Morrowind lacked, but at the same time it lacked a lot of what Morrowind had. I'm hoping Oblivion has all of the positives of Morrowind, with the presentation, world interactivity (only less of a gimmick) and charm of Fable.

 

[Ned Flanders]

We're on the same page Optimistic..the "dead" world in Morrowind was bothersome to me as well, in addition to the doo-doo browness. From the sound of the interviews it appears we'll get a far livelier world this go-round and the screens seem to indicate that forest green is in fact the new doo-doo brown.


Horses are a go already, (pic) although I don't know about mounted combat etc a la the new Zelda. Dynamic weather wil probably be included, but likely to no degree greater than an enhanced version of what we saw in Morrowind. The days of true seasonal weather changes are probably a game or 2 away. As for bugs..only time will tell.

 

[Hournda]

There are actually tons of people whining about this game right now on the Oblivion forums. For example, you're not allowed to kill NPCs that are necessary for the main quest (if you do it auto-reloads to your previous save), there's no mounted combat, the "short blade" and "long blade" skills have been merged into one, magic is now hampered by wearing armor, you can't join the bad guys, and generally that the game is being dumbed down for the Xbox 360 crowd (and that this will turn into another Fable).

 

[Optimistic]

Horses are a go already, (pic) although I don't know about mounted combat etc a la the new Zelda. Dynamic weather wil probably be included, but likely to no degree greater than an enhanced version of what we saw in Morrowind. The days of true seasonal weather changes are probably a game or 2 away. As for bugs..only time will tell.

Oh shit, I've seent hat screen a million times but I never registered it as evidence you'd be able to ride a horse. :lol

Mounted combat isn't a big deal for me, I mean, combat in any form was never the series' strength, and I'd rather see the devlopment team focus on fixing other aspects of the series, instead of adding to its problems.

There are actually tons of people whining about this game right now on the Oblivion forums.

Of course. Hardcore fans of games like Morrowind always seem to confuse progress with "dumbing the game down". I don't want to have to kill 38387394487474749 stupid crabs with 3478389490404 different weapons to be able to move up on the food chain and kill a freaken rat.

For example, you're not allowed to kill NPCs that are necessary for the main quest (if you do it auto-reloads to your previous save)

I don't see how anyone could possibly whinge about this.

there's no mounted combat, the "short blade" and "long blade" skills have been merged into one

Heh, no mounted combat is more a reflection of limited development time I think, and merging the short and long blade skills is fantastic. It's not like the two weapons have any applicaple differences in combat anyway; having them as separate skills only reduces the number of weapons at one's disposal. Changes like this are great, because while they don't change the fundamental gameplay, they do make it less tedious - instead of spending hours levelling each type of weapon separately, you just spend a few hours on a larger group of weapons. Much better.

magic is now hampered by wearing armor

Makes sense to me. If you're going to play as a mage then physical combat should be secondary anyway.

you can't join the bad guys

I think this statement needs to be clarified, but if you mean you simply cannot join any group of evil disposition, that's totally retarded.

and generally that the game is being dumbed down for the Xbox 360 crowd (and that this will turn into another Fable).

Sounds like they're just making the interface more accessible; I don't see it as dumbing the game down, I jsut see it as streamlining the interface and getting rid of the tedious aspects of the game to provide a more enjoyable gaming experience. And comparisons to Fable? Ridiculous - It's still going to retain almost limitless customisation and non linearity, and besides, as I said in an earlier post, it would be good if Oblviion adopted some of Fable's attributes. Meh.

 

[CabbageRed]

"I think this statement needs to be clarified, but if you mean you simply cannot join any group of evil disposition, that's totally retarded."

I agree completely. One of the main appeals that Good/Evil games have for me is that your choices inherently have more weight. Being a good character in Baldur's Gate or Morrowind is a choice made by the player and pulls him/her all that much more into the story and in-game world.

Something like this could easily shake my interest in the game a great deal.

 

[Monk]

I played Morrowind for hundreds of hours, and am eagerly looking forward to Oblivion. However, that's only on the condition that they address the following (which in some cases it's already been confirmed that they have) -

*A world that isn't completely dead. Morrowind was great for the first like, 3738393 hours, but after a while you realise that nothing you do has any impact on the world. For example, if I killed the leader of one of the three Houses, I'd fucking well expect his supporters to try and take me out. Also, I expect that at night most people have gone home instead of remaining in the streets in the same spot they've been in since, well, ever. I expect to see people other than myself going toa nd fro businesses and homes, delivering shit, buying junk, etc etc. NOTHING FUCKING happens in the damn game. If this doesn't change (and apparently it will be different in Oblivion), then it's a worthless addition to the series.

*The colour brown. It's like the MGS2 of the Xbox, only everything's a different shade of brown instead of green. Morrowind is possibly the ugliest game I've ever played. technically nice, sure, but jesus christ that's one ugly bitch of a game. Luckily Oblivion seems to ahve addressed that - I just hope the environment is more varied - forests are great but I'd like to see some variety in the environment.

*Alternate modes of transport - if I can't buy a horse (with optional cart or caravan), I'm going to be really pissed off. Sure, there were those big bug things that took you from city to city in Morrowind, but you couldn't explore the wilderness on them. No, instead you had to spend hours slowly, oh so slowly walking around. I'd also like to see boats and ships - I always wondered how the hell there could be shipwrecks when there are never any fucking boats around.

*More than one music track

*Less level grinding - the level grind in Morrowind was enjoyable initially, but after a while...there are just so many skills that each take so long to improve, it would just be better if they either massively decreased the experience points needed for each level, OR devised a different system altogether.

*Way more polish, way fewer bugs

*A dynamic weather system - I want to see a full fledged seasonal system. I want to see snow storms, rain storms, sunny days, wind etc etc



Fable had a lot of what Morrowind lacked, but at the same time it lacked a lot of what Morrowind had. I'm hoping Oblivion has all of the positives of Morrowind, with the presentation, world interactivity (only less of a gimmick) and charm of Fable.

This has all been covered in the game. The only problem is that the world is 1/3rd as big IIRC.

 

[seismologist]

I like Morrowind, but I recently started playing Gothic and I think I like it even better.

Oblivion is lower priority for me now. I'll probably pick up the PC version since it'll hopefully only cost $30

 

[Monk]

I like Morrowind, but I recently started playing Gothic and I think I like it even better.

Oblivion is lower priority for me now. I'll probably pick up the PC version since it'll hopefully only cost $30

YES! Another converted!

 

[Vark]

I played Morrowind for hundreds of hours, and am eagerly looking forward to Oblivion. However, that's only on the condition that they address the following (which in some cases it's already been confirmed that they have) -

*A world that isn't completely dead. Morrowind was great for the first like, 3738393 hours, but after a while you realise that nothing you do has any impact on the world. For example, if I killed the leader of one of the three Houses, I'd fucking well expect his supporters to try and take me out. Also, I expect that at night most people have gone home instead of remaining in the streets in the same spot they've been in since, well, ever. I expect to see people other than myself going toa nd fro businesses and homes, delivering shit, buying junk, etc etc. NOTHING FUCKING happens in the damn game. If this doesn't change (and apparently it will be different in Oblivion), then it's a worthless addition to the series.

*The colour brown. It's like the MGS2 of the Xbox, only everything's a different shade of brown instead of green. Morrowind is possibly the ugliest game I've ever played. technically nice, sure, but jesus christ that's one ugly bitch of a game. Luckily Oblivion seems to ahve addressed that - I just hope the environment is more varied - forests are great but I'd like to see some variety in the environment.

*Alternate modes of transport - if I can't buy a horse (with optional cart or caravan), I'm going to be really pissed off. Sure, there were those big bug things that took you from city to city in Morrowind, but you couldn't explore the wilderness on them. No, instead you had to spend hours slowly, oh so slowly walking around. I'd also like to see boats and ships - I always wondered how the hell there could be shipwrecks when there are never any fucking boats around.

*More than one music track

*Less level grinding - the level grind in Morrowind was enjoyable initially, but after a while...there are just so many skills that each take so long to improve, it would just be better if they either massively decreased the experience points needed for each level, OR devised a different system altogether.

*Way more polish, way fewer bugs

*A dynamic weather system - I want to see a full fledged seasonal system. I want to see snow storms, rain storms, sunny days, wind etc etc



Fable had a lot of what Morrowind lacked, but at the same time it lacked a lot of what Morrowind had. I'm hoping Oblivion has all of the positives of Morrowind, with the presentation, world interactivity (only less of a gimmick) and charm of Fable.

Check, check, and then some. And i'm not sure what's up with the 'you can't be evil' rumor. There's definitely plenty of opportunity to be a malacious bastard around every corner.

 

[SteveMeister]

Which isn't very many people.

Morrowind sold several million copies worldwide on Xbox and PC. Also, the original Xbox version went platinum, and so did the GOTY Xbox version. It may not be GTA numbers, but it's not as small a niche as you describe.

 

[Slo]

I just hope they don't call me "outlander" all game long.

 

[kaching]

I've been trying to get into The Elder Scrolls series since the first game years back on the PC. On paper, the TES games continue to embody a lot of great ideas for RPG gaming, but the execution fails to be compelling in the final product, for me. I've taken a decent whack at each of the previous TES games and I'll probably look into #4 as well, but its hard for me to really get hyped when I've yet to see payoff from investing in the series thus far.

 

[Discharger]

I think this statement needs to be clarified, but if you mean you simply cannot join any group of evil disposition, that's totally retarded.

It's been mentioned before that you can join the assassin guild (Morang Tong?) and I wouldn't consider them to be "good". I mean, if you can't decide to try and help the demons escaping from Oblivion, then that would be in line with the previous game. Although you had some flexability to kill whoever you wanted (although even in Morrowind, if you killed the main NPC, Cassius Codaes (sp?) it informed you that it was not possible to beat the game now and you could continue to play in the world you botched if you wanted), you couldn't really go hardcore evil aside from indiscriminately killing non-essential NPCs and stealing stuff.

There are actually tons of people whining about this game right now on the Oblivion forums. For example, you're not allowed to kill NPCs that are necessary for the main quest (if you do it auto-reloads to your previous save), there's no mounted combat, the "short blade" and "long blade" skills have been merged into one, magic is now hampered by wearing armor, you can't join the bad guys, and generally that the game is being dumbed down for the Xbox 360 crowd (and that this will turn into another Fable).

As mentioned above, you couldn't kill the main quest NPC and finish the game in Morrowind, so I don't know what the big deal is about. As well, combining the short and long blades into one category makes sense and allows you to spend less money training skills and personally I have no issue with that one. Now, I'd have to check into it, but from what I remember in the first game there was some sort of restriction when it came to armour and magic - even if it was that you couldn't wear gloves and cast magic spells; I'll have to get back to you on that one.

As well, the original game came out on xbox untouched from the PC version and it sold well - why do you think it is being "dumbed down" for the xbox360 version? I haven't heard anything about this from the devs themselves/in interviews and if they didn't need to dumb it down to sell it before, why would they now?

 

[Apharmd Battler]

I'm waiting to hear more info from the devs. I agree with much that has been said here. Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind was an uglu game graphically, but I loved playing the hell out of this game. It brought back childish memories of playign Ultima 4 on my Commodore 64. It looks like the graphics are up to decent standars, but I want to hear more about the combat and game mechanics. I've l;iked all the Elder Scrols games to date, and I'll be honest and say this one is purchased purely on impulse and love of the franchise. I don't know how many hours I put into Morrowind, but it has to be one of the few titles I've put the largest amount of time into. It looked like crap, but I'm STILL having a blast with it. One of my friends proclaimed that the game was TOO open ended. It'll be interesting to see the final package for Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion.

 

[dark10x]

The colour brown. It's like the MGS2 of the Xbox, only everything's a different shade of brown instead of green.

This sort of color design is not a bad thing. I agree that it looked ugly in the context of Morrowind, but MGS2 was a beautiful game. "Crazy colors" would simply not have worked...

 

[shuri]

Guys, Morrowind looked GREAT when it came, i remember all the hype and reviews being about the graphics. The models aged horribly, the game unfortunately came out early in the life of the xbox and in the middle of a gen change on pc, so some corners were cut.

 

[SteveMeister]

Morrowind was SUPPOSED to be brown. Vvardenfell isn't supposed to be a verdant island paradise -- it's a volcanic island with a few grassy areas and a some swamp, but mostly it was dirt, ash, and lava, and the people and architecture and creatures reflected it. It was an artistic choice that has nothing to do with the technology available. It was supposed to be alien and strange. It was home to the Dark Elves who resented Imperial intrusion and who did not trust outsiders (hence the "N'wah" and "Outlander" comments).

Oblivion takes place on the mainland in Cyrodiil. Lots and lots of lush forests and more "traditional" Imperial architecture, plus a greater mix of races and different creatures. It has a totally different look, not because we found there were colors other than brown, but because it's a different region of Tamriel.

And you haven't seen what the plains of Oblivion look like, either.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Steve - Will it be really farkin' big? I mean, really big?

 

[Hournda]

The gripe about not being able to join the bad guys I think is that you can't win with an "evil" ending. The plot of the game is that the emperor dies and the gates to hell have opened up and you need to find an heir to reseal them and save the world. One possible way to do it would be to join the bad guys, and stop any heir from being found or try to find an heir who would work for the bad guys. Kind of like in Morrowind how you could turn into a vampire and try to beat the game that way.

Actually, the gripe about not being able to kill main quest NPCs does have some legitimacy. In Morrowind if you killed a main quest NPC and thus couldn't beat the game it would just give you a message like "the threads of fate have been severed" but it would still let you play. Maybe your character doesn't care about the main quest. But in Oblivion apparently once you kill a main quest NPC it immediately auto-reloads to your last save. It's fun to try and beef your character up and kill one of the gods in the game (like Vivec in Morrowind who was killable if you were powerful enough). And people in the Ultima games always had tons of fun trying to knock off Lord British.

All the examples like the sword skills, mounted combat, magic, are just symptoms of what some people are complaining about how it's being dumbed down. But personally, aside from the NPC thing, I don't think those other things are really much of a problem.

 

[Pellham]

Morrowind sold several million copies worldwide on Xbox and PC. Also, the original Xbox version went platinum, and so did the GOTY Xbox version. It may not be GTA numbers, but it's not as small a niche as you describe.

Yeah I was gonna say. If anything, the people who DON'T like Morrowind are the ones that are in a niche.

 

[Vieo]

I think I have every TES-related game there is. Arena, Daggerfall, Battlespire, Redgard, Morrowind + all expansions.

As for me, I really don't care about mounted combat since most of the serious combat will take place at the lowest dungeon levels where you won't be able to take a horse. What I really want to see is capes and cloaks be properly represented in the game this time. It seems to me that in every RPG out there, cloaks that are visible on your character's model are the hardest thing to implement. Couldn't they just make it a flapping piece of cloth that has collision decetion on it? =D

You know what would be funny? If you have to take your platemail off to swim.

 

[pj]

The only problem is that the world is 1/3rd as big IIRC.

Where do people keep getting this info? The ONLY time they ever stated oblivion would be smaller is in the FIRST article about the game. EVERY SINGLE ONE since has stated the opposite, that oblivion will be larger. 16 square miles (40 square km) for oblivion vs. 10 for morrowind

 

[Nerevar]

As mentioned above, you couldn't kill the main quest NPC and finish the game in Morrowind, so I don't know what the big deal is about.

This isn't true though. There was a "backdoor" way to beat the game, but it did

Spoiler

require you to kill Vivec and steal his belongings. But they at least told you what to do to beat the game and allowed you to beat it, IIRC.

Regardless, I really think the beauty of the game is the "do whatever you want" approach, and I am disappointed that the developers are taking away a bit of that freedom, however inconsequential as it may be.

 

[Catapult Beetle]

And it's apparantly possible to win the game without needing any essential NPCs or using the backdoor route, as shown in this video. Morrowind from beginning to end in 14 minutes. Also worth checking out if you don't think that it was possible to move around quickly in the game, as this guy is flying around at high speeds by the end of the video.

As for Oblivion, I'm happy with the changes that I've been hearing about. I really don't think Bethseda is going to stray far from the "go anywhere, do anything" idea that is the main hook of TES. While I loved Morrowind, the stat-based combat wasn't really my thing, so I'm glad to hear that combat's going to be more skill-based. The really hardcore fans may see this as a "dumbing-down", but I don't see what's so intelligent about not being able to strike a rat that's one foot in front of you because your long sword skill isn't high enough.

 

[Discharger]

This isn't true though. There was a "backdoor" way to beat the game, but it did

Spoiler

require you to kill Vivec and steal his belongings. But they at least told you what to do to beat the game and allowed you to beat it, IIRC.

Regardless, I really think the beauty of the game is the "do whatever you want" approach, and I am disappointed that the developers are taking away a bit of that freedom, however inconsequential as it may be.

I wasn't aware of that - thanks for the info

To me that doesn't matter very much, but knowing this I can see why some people would be incensed about it.

This is how I feel about Oblivion:

I had a hell of a good time with Morrowind, and it had some flaws (lots of walking between locations, combat could have been better, magic was not very powerful) but I was happy to work around them just to enjoy the fun aspects of the game. With Oblivion, all the issues I had with Morrowind have been addressed and more compelling content and features have been added in.

Sure, there may not be mounted combat, but there wasn't in Morrowind and that didn't detract from my enjoyment of the game. I have a feeling that even with the changes and revisions to the tried and true formula, Bethesda is not going to ruin one of their best franchises.

That out of the way, lets get back to the discussion at hand. In regards to magic users not being able to wear armour -- I've read in many interviews that one of their goals in this game was to make it possible for you to play the game as a magic caster and survive without having to resort to close combat. I have a feeling that after beefing up magic users in general, allowing to have them wearing armour may have unbalanced things quite a bit. Maybe SteveMeister can clarify this, because it's not something I know for a fact, but it makes sense.

This kind of discussion is great though, because I'm sure some of it gets back to the devs and from what I've seen, they care a lot about the game they've been working on for 3 years. If there is anything they can implement/change at this stage to make it a better game, I'm sure they'll take it to heart. They haven't let me down yet, and I don't expect things will change.

edit: fixed some text

 

[SteveMeister]

There's a skill-based penalty to casting while wearing armor. Essentially, the lower your armor skill, the less effective your spells will be while wearing armor. As your armor skill increases, that penalty is lessened until at a certain skill level, there no longer IS a penalty. Note that the penalty is not on chance to cast -- it's on the EFFECTIVENESS of the spell (i.e. the magnitude or duration of the spell is reduced).

Basically what this means is that a pure mage won't wear armor -- instead, a pure mage will rely on magical shields and spells, as should be the case.

A hybrid class like Spellsword or Battle Mage would want to choose an armor skill as a major skill, so that the penalty is lower to begin with.