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[nkarafo]

It was never an issue for SEGA players. You guys are making stuff up.

Only because the console lasted a year and a half.

Later games would force Sega to replace the archaic single stick design.

 

[Mr_JPF]

1- The base PS1 controller had no analog sticks. That didn't stop Sony from later adding two analog sticks with the DualShock

2 - There was no problem with the GD-Roms ( besides being easy to Pirate ) . Having multiple discs for a single game was not an issue for many PS1, PS2 and 360 games so I don't see why it would be an issue for the Dreamcast

3 - They could have easily made a DVD add-on ( like the OG Xbox ) if they had the funds to do it .

There was nothing wrong with the Dreamcast model that we got . The problem is that Sega ran out of money to manufacture more consoles, it's that simple.

 

[cireza]

Later games would force Sega to replace the archaic single stick design.

We've already been through this in the topic. They could have released another controller with two sticks, just like Sony released another controller with two sticks on the PS1, and just like SEGA released the 6 buttons controller on the MegaDrive. Both consoles being highly successful and having a controller revision not being an issue at any point, and still having base controllers that did the job perfectly well for 99% of the library.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Sega could have just released another controller with 2 sticks. been done by sony and xbox to a different extent(releasing the S controller)

 

[kevboard]

Sega could have just released another controller with 2 sticks. been done by sony and xbox to a different extent(releasing the S controller)

the controller S isn't really comparable here tho. that didn't change the functionality at all, just updated the ergonomics.
but yes, simply replacing the controller would have been fine. just have a warning on the back if a game requires it.

generally a refresh for that controller would have been necessary at some point, even ignoring the functionality for a moment, the controller was just awful in general and should have been replaced mich earlier imo.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

I love the Dreamcast and its library but I agree with the OP. Even just looking at how SEGA ran things for the previous 5 years would tell you that they weren't going to pull that ship around.

SEGA games even on the Dreamcast were still antiquated (again I love the Dreamcast and I'm not discounting the quality of the albeit small library). The vast majority of Dreamcast games were still very "arcadey" in nature (not saying arcade ports) and the industry was moving away from that.

This issue with releasing a new controller after, is devs now have to build two control schemes and somehow design game mechanics around both of them.

One for gamers that have the single stick pad, and the other for those with dual stick.

It adds an extra layer of unknowns that devs wouldn't be pleased with.

Yeah, this wouldn't be viable not because you couldn't say that games require the new controller but as you said devs would need to develop two different controls schemes which in many games would require the entire game to be redesigned.

We've already been through this in the topic. They could have released another controller with two sticks, just like Sony released another controller with two sticks on the PS1, and just like SEGA released the 6 buttons controller on the MegaDrive. Both consoles being highly successful and having a controller revision not being an issue at any point, and still having base controllers that did the job perfectly well for 99% of the library.

The difference though is that the DualShock was introduced in 1997 during the 5th generation of consoles. How many PS1 games REQUIRE the DualShock as in absolutely 100% not usable on the original controller? I'm sure there are quite a few but the 5th and 6th generation of consoles are very different. Two analog sticks were absolutely more popular during the 6th gen and people can try to argue otherwise but even if the PlayStation 2 was normal levels of success for that generation (lets say around 30-40M) the Dreamcast would have still lost ports.

 

[Wolzard]

Two analog sticks were absolutely more popular during the 6th gen and people can try to argue otherwise but even if the PlayStation 2 was normal levels of success for that generation (lets say around 30-40M) the Dreamcast would have still lost ports.

Can you name a popular PS2 game that's impossible to play without using both analog sticks? And what about the PSP and 3DS, which only have one analog stick but receive the same types of games?

 

[Chittagong]

I think without Sony, Sega would have won. Consider:

Dreamcast came out mere 2 years after the N64, and was a world of difference in terms of experience. N64 games were low poly, blurry, low fps mess. Dreamcast games were rich, fluid, crisp, just next gen. Compared to Dreamcast, N64 games looked really fucking grim.

The gap from Dreamcast to GameCube in 2001 would be a further 3 years. During this time developers would either be stuck with cartridges, or defect to Dreamcast to make cheaper, bigger, more impressive games. That would have boosted the entire platform.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

Sega could have just released another controller with 2 sticks. been done by sony and xbox to a different extent(releasing the S controller)

The S controller is very different though. There isn't anything the S can do that the "Duke" cannot do as it's simply a redesigned controller designed to be smaller.

Can you name a popular PS2 game that's impossible to play without using both analog sticks? And what about the PSP and 3DS, which only have one analog stick but receive the same types of games?

Impossible? Probably not. Less enjoyable with a gimped control scheme? Absolutely

 

[Physiognomonics]

The Contoller was an abomination and 3D Sonics games are ass.

For Soul Calibur it was the best controller in my experience. The d-pad was great for that game. Also great for driving as the stick was very precise.

Sure it was crap for first person shooters.

 

[cireza]

the Dreamcast would have still lost ports.

And why exactly if a controller with a second stick was released and then bundled with the console ?

Also great for driving as the stick was very precise.

Definitely a fantastic controller for racing games. Makes you wonder how in the world we are here today with a Switch 2 Pro Controller that still doesn't have analog triggers. Unbelievable.

 

[Wolzard]

The S controller is very different though. There isn't anything the S can do that the "Duke" cannot do as it's simply a redesigned controller designed to be smaller.


Impossible? Probably not. Less enjoyable with a gimped control scheme? Absolutely

So this is more a subjective matter of preference. But it's not something you'd list as "developers would stop releasing a game on the console because of the lack of a second analog stick."

 

[bobone]

The second stick meant nothing in 1999/2000.

Dreamcast was discontinued before Halo even came out. Sega officially killed it before either the Xbox OR Gamecube launched.

It only really competed with PS1 and N64. If you look at multiplatform titles on the system they are from PS1/N64. Not PS2.

 

[Killer8]

Without PS2? For Dreamcast to succeed, you would have to go back and imagine a world without PS1.

Hardware sales of previous two generations:

SNES - 49.1 million
Genesis - 30.75 million

N64 - 32.93 million
Saturn - 9.26 million

PlayStation - 102.49 million

PlayStation brought a ton of non-gamers into the fold and doubled the size of the industry, while Sega slid further into irrelevance. Those players who rode the wave of PlayStation energy in the '90s were never going to jump ship to Dreamcast in the following generation. Not after the Saturn. And not with the expectation of a PlayStation sequel coming.

The whole thing is a pointless thought experiment really. "If Sega did not have its biggest competitor who made gaming cool and absolutely curb stomped them, would they have done better?"

Yeah, no shit.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Without PS2? For Dreamcast to succeed, you would have to go back and imagine a world without PS1.

Hardware sales of previous two generations:

SNES - 49.1 million
Genesis - 30.75 million

N64 - 32.93 million
Saturn - 9.26 million

PlayStation - 102.49 million

PlayStation brought a ton of non-gamers into the fold and doubled the size of the industry, while Sega slid further into irrelevance. Those players who rode the wave of PlayStation energy in the '90s were never going to jump ship to Dreamcast in the following generation. Not after the Saturn. And not with the expectation of a PlayStation sequel coming.

The whole thing is a pointless thought experiment really. "If Sega did not have its biggest competitor who made gaming cool and absolutely curb stomped them, would they have done better?"

Yeah, no shit.

PS1 sales by the end of March 2000 (up to when PS2 launched, basically) were nowhere near 102.49 million. They were closer to 72 million shipped, so just slightly ahead of the NES, roughly launch-aligned.

I'm not discounting that PS1 brought in new players: it definitely did. But the 102.49 figure gets thrown around a lot as if all of that was sold during the gen and before PS2 released, which just isn't true. Same with people who bring up PS2's 155 - 160 million as if all of that was sold prior to PS3, when ~ 50 million of that total was after the PS3 officially released as the new system!

Also some credit where it's due: PS1 benefited off of appealing to a demographic SEGA had already started catering to with Genesis/MegaDrive, and to a lesser extent (due to smaller market share), The 3DO Company with the 3DO. As well as DOS PCs with games like DOOM, Wolfenstein, Syndicate & System Shock. Sony tapped into those pre-existing demographics while also expanding out to the general young adult MTV-gen era with hipper marketing and pushing games like Wipeout at rave clubs.

Not to mention partner 3P like Core leaning into young adult Playboy-like advertising for titles like Tomb Raider (which was also on the Saturn), or Capcom pushing survival-horror with Resident Evil.