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[Ar¢tos]

I kinda miss floppy disks.. Maybe we can go back to those.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Somebody is still upset that HD DVD got crushed.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Considering how he thought hd-dvd was better (which IT WASNT) I’m guessing yes.

The consensus in the other thread was it was indeed better. The only argument was whether Bluray was detrimental, but everyone already new it was better.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

[Citation Needed]: the thread

 

[Klayzer]

No this has nothing to do with the spec reveal, well at least partially, he has been running this same issue into the ground for months. In fact he got banned 4 times because he turned to attacks in the other Blu Ray thread. As soon as the PS5 was confirmed to have Blu Ray he was given a green-light to make another anti-BR thread.

Ok. Wasn't aware he's raging a jihad against Blu Ray.

 

[Afro Republican]

Remember when EviLore got after the OP for intentionally mistranslating a Chinese article so it would read the Xbox One sold 70 million units and then edited the mod edit in third-person? Also Soawen was a news aggregator not a professional tech outlet of "vicinity" or whatever.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/chin...sold-over-70-million-consoles-report.1468211/

 

[Airbus Jr]

Another anti bluray thread by Freedom Co

This is getting boring now

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

OP:

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Because Blurays are completely installed on the HDD anyways. Its the same as digital but with the added benefit of ownership and discounts.
and your option number 2 doesnt exist, where is the link/source for this mytical Advanced Digital Disc format that can dub as VRAM

No because newer formats can load in real-time. Digital installs to the hard drive still carry Bluray codecs, which means the speed is capped. Like the example I gave, it's like you have a 20watt phone, but you have a 30watt charger. You want the faster speeds, but the phone is capped at 20watts so you want get a higher charge.

 

[theHFIC]

I think it’ll be 4K mainly for disk storage density since games are getting bigger. Rockstar already started putting two Blu-ray discs with RDR2.

i agree / hope.

Now we just have to worry that the Ultra 4K's multiple DRM checks don't bottleneck the whole process.

Hopefully all the OP's "digital sponsored tools" that vendors use to downgrade for BluRay can support 4K discs

 

[SonGoku]

No because newer formats can load in real-time

Such as? Link please

Digital installs to the hard drive still carry Bluray codecs

Citation needed, make it less obvious
Bluray acts as a storage medium plan and simple, theres no bluray codec for games, stop making shit up

btw what makes me special?

 

[DeepEnigma]

No because newer formats can load in real-time. Digital installs to the hard drive still carry Bluray codecs, which means the speed is capped. Like the example I gave, it's like you have a 20watt phone, but you have a 30watt charger. You want the faster speeds, but the phone is capped at 20watts so you want get a higher charge.

You even own a PS4? However they handle their file system they get around just fine because those damn things install super fast. Literally lightning speed in comparison to whatever Microsoft is doing.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Such as? Link please

Citation needed, make it less obvious
Bluray acts as a storage medium plan and simple, theres no bluray codec for games, stop making shit up

btw what makes me special?

Yes there is a codec for the DRM. The DRM continuously checks to make sure the game isn't pirated or illegally modified in real-time. This slows down transfer speeds. Sometimes you can do some disc read like some games on the PS3 did to pick up speed but it will never be fast enough to be in synch with a SSD.

 

[michaelius]

Now imagine Microsoft spending a tiny fraction of what they seem to spend on astroturfing on actually making games for their ecosystem.

But this thread reminds me of Xbox one release since much like Xbox division back then it completly ignores the reality of market in Europe , Asia and Africa.

Boxed games are still extremely relevant for most of world outside USA so releasing console with physical games would be disaster similar to what Microsoft did with no used games system.

 

[Redneckerz]

From the history books:

''I take it next gen will still be Blu-ray with more rising costs.'' a similar themed thread by OP.

 

[theHFIC]

Yes there is a codec for the DRM. The DRM continuously checks to make sure the game isn't pirated or illegally modified in real-time. This slows down transfer speeds. Sometimes you can do some disc read like some games on the PS3 did to pick up speed but it will never be fast enough to be in synch with a SSD.

i think we want some kind of documentation on this process to show that it exists rather than you just troll-splaining it all over again to us.

 

[Shin]

What is the Nextbox going to use? Or is it all digital for Xbox from now on.

Xbox is doomed because BD is doomed, best pack it up

 

[Airbus Jr]

Yes there is a codec for the DRM. The DRM continuously checks to make sure the game isn't pirated or illegally modified in real-time. This slows down transfer speeds. Sometimes you can do some disc read like some games on the PS3 did to pick up speed but it will never be fast enough to be in synch with a SSD.

So if you dont like bluray whats your solution to this?

You re gona make your own version of hd dvd back ?

 

[SonGoku]

The DRM continuously checks to make sure the game isn't pirated or illegally modified in real-time. This slows down transfer speeds.

Again citation needed.
The DRM uses reserved CPU resources it doesnt cap or limit read speeds from the HDD/SDD

and what happened to the bluray codec you mentioned lol?

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

i think we want some kind of documentation on this process to show that it exists rather than you just troll-splaining it all over again to us.

Everyone knows that the Disc is DRM, why is that new to you?

So if you dont like bluray whats your solution to this?

You re gona make your own version of hd dvd back ?

I already provided two alternatives in the OP.

it doesnt cap or limit read speeds from the HDD/SDD

and what happened to the bluray codec you mentioned lol?

Yes, because the SSD itself has a speed cap.

The codec is the DRM, it's what's delaying communication from the download to the console, which is why even installed it won't load that fast unless you use a bit of laser read. Sadly, that will create latency.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yes there is a codec for the DRM. The DRM continuously checks to make sure the game isn't pirated or illegally modified in real-time. This slows down transfer speeds. Sometimes you can do some disc read like some games on the PS3 did to pick up speed but it will never be fast enough to be in synch with a SSD.

GAMES DONT RUN OFF THE BR DISC!!!

FFS.

 

[Klayzer]

I thought on this forum you weren't allowed to just make shit up for clicks without repercussions. Nothing he said has any actual evidence. Quit spreading crap around as a fact.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Everyone knows that the Disc is DRM, why is that new to you?



I already provided two alternatives in the OP.



Yes, because the SSD itself has a speed cap.

The codec is the DRM, it's what's delaying communication from the download to the console, which is why even installed it won't load that fast unless you use a bit of laser read. Sadly, that will create latency.

Dude this isnt 2007 anymore

HD DVD vs BR war is over

BR won

Get with the times

 

[Clear]

What better, more cost-effective. alternatives exist for mass distribution of large-volumes of digital data in a physical form?

None.

End of argument.

 

[Klayzer]

GAMES DONT RUN OFF THE DISC!!!

FFS.

He keeps ignoring that fact. The blu ray is for installation on the harddrive.

 

[TGO]

It has been revealed in the same interview as the "PS5 Specs" that the PS5 will continue to use bluray. Not only does that show innovation in the physical space is dead, but will actually be a detriment to the specs "cerny" was touting. I was expecting at least using the niche improved and digital supported digital disc format bu they have decided for costs sake to keep a drive that's going to cause massive issues for the PS5.

Here are the primary issues with this terrible move:

1. Bluray is already dead, Sony can't save it, and 4K Bluray won't suddenly get an uptick in 1-2 years when 4K is standard. They aren't going to get any profits from their physical movie division from this, and many of their old partners from 2006-8 have jumped ship.

2. You can't tout that you are going to have a "fast SSD Drive" in the PS5 and say loads will take one second if you are still using Bluray. When you install from Bluray you're also running the Bluray data and codecs on the machine, which an SSD drive won't do much to increase the speed of because that format is naturally slow, especially since it checks DRM. Even if you were to add a bit of laser disc read, it would only marginally increase the speed. It's like you having a 20watt phone wanting a 30wat charge from the charger, you can't charge at 30 wats if the phone is capped at 20, the SSD drive is basically useless outside Digital games.

3. With #2 being true it begs the question for why they don't either go with the new Advanced Digital discs or just scrap discs altogether and go all digital for the PS5? It doesn't make sense to hype an SSD drive if the SSD drive doesn't do anything. Actually having games load in a second would be a great sales pitch and would be considerably more profitable. It would also result in your console being cheaper to produce.

4. Blurays death is clearly at hand with even big boys like Samsung running for the hills. There isn't a major financial pool to pull from for it in 2019. Which means that since 2018, it's been becoming more and more expensive gradually to produce Bluray media. Since there's no competition and not many people throwing money into the pool, the price of BR is now going up or staying the same. Inevitably Bluray will become more of a rarity and the losses will outpace the profits by a considerable margin.

5. Even if we remove #4 and talk about Bluray TODAY, it's still too expensive and not at a mass market price. As regular Bluray is just starting to hit that, 4K Bluray has come and made old BluRay irrelevant. So we once again have an expensive format. Bluray has never and will never hit the DVD price point and never will until its dead and sold in bargin bins.

6. There's no consumer incentive anymore. Digital giveaways with Bluray discs have failed to get people interested. A desperate strategy used to salvage the format, and now there's nothing left but the current "marginal" quality advantage of a physical disc. It's 2019, we have digital tech that beats regular Blu-ray and now have some that support HDR, Vision, and other features. Things are moving much faster than before, and that marginal advantage will be gone in 1-2 years. A side-effect of 4k Bluray being just an upressed regular Bluray with no problems addressed. Lack of innovation.

7. Microsoft is pushing its competitors format more than Sony, who's been working with the rest of the BR club to try and save the failing format. The Xbox One S and the X are the only console Trojan Horsing the Blu-Ray format, and Sony's refusal to add it to the Slim and both variations of the Pro was Sony's chance to try and spread 4K Bluray world wide. Instead Sony acted like fools, and ignored pushing their own format. That was likely the last chance to get it to work. Having two companies have 4K Bluray across nearly 200 million consumers. Now 4K Bluray will be niche format on the PS5 (assuming that they even use it) for physical gamers. Which as I mentioned above, screw up the PS5.

8. The New Advanced Digital Disc Format Sony is ignoring in favor of Bluray would allow Sony to have high quality quick reads that can immediately download in real-time while playing instead of requiring DRM installs. It's like we are stuck in 2006 because of Sony's lack of moving into the future. If Sony wants to have 1 second load times on a Bluray disc, they'll have to, as I said above, use part of the disc reader along with the installed game to speed it up. Issue with that is such tactics increases latency causing not only input lag but framerate lag as well.

9. Most Games are rendered with Digital sponsored tools that "downgrade" when formatting them to Bluray. It's the same with Movies, the tools are too advanced to update the Bluray tools to keep up, so they have to downgrade certain graphical features and image quality to get things on a Bluray. The only reason why Bluray contains an advantage is because of streaming, which is close to passing 4K Bluray. But when looking at Digital uncompressed to disc uncompressed, there's no competition. This means that non-streaming digital downloads on the PS5 will LOOK BETTER than Discs. Making keeping Bluray pointless.

The conclusion is simple, there's still time, either make an all digital device, or trade Bluray for the Advanced Digital Disc, which has a faster transfer rate, can load in seconds, can download in real-time, and can be sued as temporary memory or Vram storage in real-time. While also supporting higher resolutions and features since it's meant to be future proof and modular.

Cerny touting some of the features the PS5 will have is pointless if it can't actually be done. We aren't in 2006 anymore, it's time to realize the format from its inception failed, a lot of people have lost money, and even more people are losing money NOW and even leaving YOU behind because they can't take the red anymore. You can't save Bluray so give up. You came out of a bad time and made Sony a relevant name again in many areas, however Bluray and Phones are literally costing you billions of dollars because you keep chasing after an imaginary pot of gold that will never happen. Abandon Bluray now(and phones) and actually provide a console your fans will care about instead of talking about graphical features that will be hampered by Bluray or SSD drives that won't do anything for Bluray games at all and only for digital.

 

[Calibos]

What the hell is this? Physical media IS dying, but OP's post is all over the place and tries to sound like expert analysis without actual knowledge.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

GAMES DONT RUN OFF THE BR DISC!!!

FFS.

But it does check for DRM.

 

[cireza]

If I had known that the games could run from the discs, I would have not installed all of my games on the hard drive !

 

[Airbus Jr]

But it does check for DRM.

But next gen system will still be using bluray disc wether you like it or not

So whats you gona do about it champ?

 

[DeepEnigma]

But it does check for DRM.

Does a quick two second check for the disc just like the PC does with physical before we used to CD/DVD crack them.

The drive stops spinning and it never spins up again the entirety of the game and this is all before you get to the main menu.

 

[SonGoku]

So if you dont like bluray whats your solution to this?

You re gona make your own version of hd dvd back ?

Have you been living under a rock? Theres a new format in town called Advanced Digital Disc. It can download things in "real-time" and can replace your system memory (vram)

• Its as fast VRAM
• Sequential Read/Write speeds up to 950GB/s and 920GB/s respectively (yes that's gigabytes)
• Supports blast processing for enhanced Raytracing and AI
• Comes in 5TB single layer and 10TB dual layer
• Emotion Engine compatible (particles engine) for better physics.
• 1.50$ per disc (single layer). No info on dual layer prices

 

[Afro Republican]

I thought on this forum you weren't allowed to just make shit up for clicks without repercussions. Nothing he said has any actual evidence. Quit spreading crap around as a fact.

To be fair he's not really making things up, He just doesn't understand how things work and truly believes in everything he said in the Op. He's almost 1:1 completely consistent with the other Blu Ray thread. I'm sure if someone explains to him how game installs work, as well as SSD's, he might change his stance slightly.

Or not.

 

[Endless Fluff]

Does a quick two second check for the disc just like the PC does with physical before you see CD/DVD crack them.

The drive stops spinning and it never spins up again the entirety of the game and this is all before you get to the main menu.

You don't understand. The drive has an ultra silent mode which runs super slow. This is for the DRM checks! /s

 

[jshackles]

But it does check for DRM.

You know that computers are capable of doing multiple things at once, right? The DRM check isn't constantly spinning the disc, it does it once when you boot up the game. Even if it did do it occasionally during game play, the disc drive is on an entirely separate bus to the motherboard - it's not like the two are hooked up with parallel cables or something.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Have you been living under a rock? Theres a new format in town called Advanced Digital Disc

• Its as fast VRAM
• Sequential Read/Write speeds up to 950GB/s and 920GB/s respectively (yes that's gigabytes)
• Supports blast processing for enhanced Raytracing and AI
• Comes in 5TB and 10TB sizes
• Emotion Engine compatible (particles engine) for better physics.

Never heard of it

Thanks for the news

 

[Klayzer]

But it does check for DRM.

Has nothing to do with the game running off the disc. Which it does not.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Have you been living under a rock? Theres a new format in town called Advanced Digital Disc

• Its as fast VRAM

You forgot to mention it can download things in "real-time" and can replace your system memory. I also never said it was as fast as VRAM, but the space on the disc can be used for it. Just like a HDD.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You forgot to mention it can download things in "real-time" and can replace your system memory. I also never said it was as fast as VRAM, but the space on the disc can be used for it. Just like a HDD.

How many RAMs can I download at once?

 

[theHFIC]

Everyone knows that the Disc is DRM, why is that new to you?

No one is questioning the disc as DRM. What we are questioning are your claims of a performance hit due to continuous checks and scans of the disc from "blu ray drm codecs" slowing down transfer speeds from a separate hard drive or ssd. I am fine with any PS hacking scene documentation OR official documentation. From the screeds you write it gives the interpretation that you don't understand what a codec actually does or what a DRM check actually is.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Has nothing to do with the game running off the disc. Which it does not.

I never said the game ran off the disc. I said the codecs when you download to the SSD will still make the install to slow to take advantage of SSD speeds since the DRM is continously checked even installed.

 

[SonGoku]

You forgot to mention it can download things in "real-time" and can replace your system memory. I also never said it was as fast as VRAM, but the space on the disc can be used for it. Just like a HDD.

Yes correct! That's a given considering the transfer speeds!
But you are right better to lay it out

 

[Klayzer]

To be fair he's not really making things up, He just doesn't understand how things work and truly believes in everything he said in the Op. He's almost 1:1 completely consistent with the other Blu Ray thread. I'm sure if someone explains to him how game installs work, as well as SSD's, he might change his stance slightly.

Or not.

Well its either ignorance or trolling. Likely both considering the tc.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

The blu ray is for installation on the harddrive.

What's this? You don't need a Bluray disc to install a hard drive. Huh?

 

[Gamernyc78]

Looking at recent posts and comments of the poster taking ppls criticism of the digital Xbox personally and in full defense I can see why this post was made lol

Green team damage control and propoganda machine is in full swing I see Do ppl really believe well eat this shit up? And believe some fake ass arm chair analyst over Cerny who has been on point in terms of hardware.

This world is mad and the tryhards are insane

 

[Afro Republican]

What's this? You don't need a Bluray disc to install a hard drive. Huh?

I..........

what.....

Can someone please explain how this works in ONE post, instead of multiple small posts by different people so he actually keeps up and understands?

 

[ResilientBanana]

Blu Ray has as much to do with loading games off your SSD as your headphones.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Can we just talk about game like Cyberpunk 2077, The Elder Scroll VI or something like that ?

Far more interesting imo

These whole bluray debate is really boring and tiresome

i dont see any benefit from this useless debate beside adding a few headache

 

[Fbh]

Freedom Gate Co and Voost Kain should team up and make a crossover thread.
"Sony using blurays next gen means they already lost (ANTI-CONSUMER)"

 

[Klayzer]

What's this? You don't need a Bluray disc to install a hard drive. Huh?

No shit Sherlock that's why we have options for both physical and digital.