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[goldenpp72]

Can't they make 100gb+ blu rays? Not an expert here.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I don't think I've ever seen this amount of ignorance from one person in a thread before (at least on the gaming side).

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Post seems silly. Blu-Ray has a huge storage capacity and is the preffered physical delivery method for most large games. Post install, very little data is pulled from the disc during gameplay.

Is this just an "I hate Blu-ray" rant?

Something like that..... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[baphomet]

I don't think I've ever seen this amount of ignorance from one person in a thread before (at least on the gaming side).

You've not seen his other threads then

 

[Negotiator]

Can't they make 100gb+ blu rays? Not an expert here.

I'm pretty sure the PS5 will support BDXL discs to accommodate next-gen games.

RDR2 is already 2 discs...

 

[Iorv3th]

Post seems silly. Blu-Ray has a huge storage capacity and is the preffered physical delivery method for most large games. Post install, very little data is pulled from the disc during gameplay.

Is this just an "I hate Blu-ray" rant?

Yes the guy has always hated blu-ray. He even had a thread about how blu-ray destroyed last gen because HD-DVD was better. His entire argument is shit and full of falseties. He has no idea what he is talking about but keeps jumping on this 'blu-ray is bad' train.

There is no "cap". The game will load and run assets as fast as the medium it's installed ON will allow. The game is not installed ON the disc. The disc is only the installer. The game actually runs off the hard drive it's installed to. The only thing the disc is used for is to check for DRM on the initial launch of the game. After that, it's ran off the hard drive with a possible disc verification on occasion, WHICH DOES NOT AFFECT HOW THE ACTUAL GAME RUNS because the game is not run off of the disc. No matter how you attempt to spin this weird quest you're on. This is like some flat earther shit reasoning you're on.

Yes he doesn't understand that games are installed to the HDD. He didn't understand that in his HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray thread either. He thinks that blu-ray games are being loaded from the disc everytime and you are playing stuff that is streaming from the disc.

Many people tried to explain it to him and he insisted he had some insider knowledge and knew what he was talking about.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yes the guy has always hated blu-ray. He even had a thread about how blu-ray destroyed last gen because HD-DVD was better. His entire argument is shit and full of falseties. He has no idea what he is talking about but keeps jumping on this 'blu-ray is bad' train.



Yes he doesn't understand that games are installed to the HDD. He didn't understand that in his HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray thread either. He thinks that blu-ray games are being loaded from the disc everytime and you are playing stuff that is streaming from the disc.

Many people tried to explain it to him and he insisted he had some insider knowledge and knew what he was talking about.

He graduated from that now, he understands that they're installed the hard drive but he acts like they are an image like an ISO.

 

[nikolino840]

Yeah, Sony should go cartridge. It would also be in-line with their evolving plans to make PS VR more portable and wireless. I could imagine a cartridge-only (no Blu Ray drive), "PS5 Portable VR" console unit that is small enough to carry in a backpack so that people could try VR in the wild.

Sony should still include a disc tray for backwards compatibility and movie-watching, of course. Even for a "dead format", Blu Ray is still popular among general consumers.

Could be cool games on pendrive

 

[CJY]

Can't they make 100gb+ blu rays? Not an expert here.

Bigger disks already exist but the point of this thread isn’t about capacity, but speed. Although the true point of the thread is highly suspect.

 

[CJY]

Yes the guy has always hated blu-ray. He even had a thread about how blu-ray destroyed last gen because HD-DVD was better. His entire argument is shit and full of falseties. He has no idea what he is talking about but keeps jumping on this 'blu-ray is bad' train.



Yes he doesn't understand that games are installed to the HDD. He didn't understand that in his HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray thread either. He thinks that blu-ray games are being loaded from the disc everytime and you are playing stuff that is streaming from the disc.

Many people tried to explain it to him and he insisted he had some insider knowledge and knew what he was talking about.

It ain’t no train he’s on. More like a stationary cart in an abandoned coal mine.

 

[gamerforever]

Cartridges would be silly. It won’t be a portable machine. Neither is psvr portable. I think the main issue is that we will need about 10tb to fit ps4 and ps4 games on to it.

 

[CJY]

Just did a quick search for “advanced digital disc” and came up with nada. Seriously, is this some kind of joke?

 

[ORI]

It has been revealed in the same interview as the "PS5 Specs" that the PS5 will continue to use bluray. Not only does that show innovation in the physical space is dead, but will actually be a detriment to the specs "cerny" was touting. I was expecting at least using the niche improved and digital supported digital disc format bu they have decided for costs sake to keep a drive that's going to cause massive issues for the PS5.

Here are the primary issues with this terrible move:

1. Bluray is already dead, Sony can't save it, and 4K Bluray won't suddenly get an uptick in 1-2 years when 4K is standard. They aren't going to get any profits from their physical movie division from this, and many of their old partners from 2006-8 have jumped ship.

2. You can't tout that you are going to have a "fast SSD Drive" in the PS5 and say loads will take one second if you are still using Bluray. When you install from Bluray you're also running the Bluray data and codecs on the machine, which an SSD drive won't do much to increase the speed of because that format is naturally slow, especially since it checks DRM. Even if you were to add a bit of laser disc read, it would only marginally increase the speed. It's like you having a 20watt phone wanting a 30wat charge from the charger, you can't charge at 30 wats if the phone is capped at 20, the SSD drive is basically useless outside Digital games.

3. With #2 being true it begs the question for why they don't either go with the new Advanced Digital discs or just scrap discs altogether and go all digital for the PS5? It doesn't make sense to hype an SSD drive if the SSD drive doesn't do anything. Actually having games load in a second would be a great sales pitch and would be considerably more profitable. It would also result in your console being cheaper to produce.

4. Blurays death is clearly at hand with even big boys like Samsung running for the hills. There isn't a major financial pool to pull from for it in 2019. Which means that since 2018, it's been becoming more and more expensive gradually to produce Bluray media. Since there's no competition and not many people throwing money into the pool, the price of BR is now going up or staying the same. Inevitably Bluray will become more of a rarity and the losses will outpace the profits by a considerable margin.

5. Even if we remove #4 and talk about Bluray TODAY, it's still too expensive and not at a mass market price. As regular Bluray is just starting to hit that, 4K Bluray has come and made old BluRay irrelevant. So we once again have an expensive format. Bluray has never and will never hit the DVD price point and never will until its dead and sold in bargin bins.

6. There's no consumer incentive anymore. Digital giveaways with Bluray discs have failed to get people interested. A desperate strategy used to salvage the format, and now there's nothing left but the current "marginal" quality advantage of a physical disc. It's 2019, we have digital tech that beats regular Blu-ray and now have some that support HDR, Vision, and other features. Things are moving much faster than before, and that marginal advantage will be gone in 1-2 years. A side-effect of 4k Bluray being just an upressed regular Bluray with no problems addressed. Lack of innovation.

7. Microsoft is pushing its competitors format more than Sony, who's been working with the rest of the BR club to try and save the failing format. The Xbox One S and the X are the only console Trojan Horsing the Blu-Ray format, and Sony's refusal to add it to the Slim and both variations of the Pro was Sony's chance to try and spread 4K Bluray world wide. Instead Sony acted like fools, and ignored pushing their own format. That was likely the last chance to get it to work. Having two companies have 4K Bluray across nearly 200 million consumers. Now 4K Bluray will be niche format on the PS5 (assuming that they even use it) for physical gamers. Which as I mentioned above, screw up the PS5.

8. The New Advanced Digital Disc Format Sony is ignoring in favor of Bluray would allow Sony to have high quality quick reads that can immediately download in real-time while playing instead of requiring DRM installs. It's like we are stuck in 2006 because of Sony's lack of moving into the future. If Sony wants to have 1 second load times on a Bluray disc, they'll have to, as I said above, use part of the disc reader along with the installed game to speed it up. Issue with that is such tactics increases latency causing not only input lag but framerate lag as well.

9. Most Games are rendered with Digital sponsored tools that "downgrade" when formatting them to Bluray. It's the same with Movies, the tools are too advanced to update the Bluray tools to keep up, so they have to downgrade certain graphical features and image quality to get things on a Bluray. The only reason why Bluray contains an advantage is because of streaming, which is close to passing 4K Bluray. But when looking at Digital uncompressed to disc uncompressed, there's no competition. This means that non-streaming digital downloads on the PS5 will LOOK BETTER than Discs. Making keeping Bluray pointless.

The conclusion is simple, there's still time, either make an all digital device, or trade Bluray for the Advanced Digital Disc, which has a faster transfer rate, can load in seconds, can download in real-time, and can be sued as temporary memory or Vram storage in real-time. While also supporting higher resolutions and features since it's meant to be future proof and modular.

Cerny touting some of the features the PS5 will have is pointless if it can't actually be done. We aren't in 2006 anymore, it's time to realize the format from its inception failed, a lot of people have lost money, and even more people are losing money NOW and even leaving YOU behind because they can't take the red anymore. You can't save Bluray so give up. You came out of a bad time and made Sony a relevant name again in many areas, however Bluray and Phones are literally costing you billions of dollars because you keep chasing after an imaginary pot of gold that will never happen. Abandon Bluray now(and phones) and actually provide a console your fans will care about instead of talking about graphical features that will be hampered by Bluray or SSD drives that won't do anything for Bluray games at all and only for digital.

Thanks for reminding me not to take drugs.... In excess

Your post made no sense. Blu Ray is not dead because there's no alternative.

Also, the SSD is where the game sits, the disc drive doesn't do anything so the rest of your post is nonsensical.

 

[SegaShack]

This is a stupid post. It's well understood that even on PS4, the full game is installed from the disc to the HDD and the disc merely operates as a DRM check at that point. There is no reason to expect this to change for PS5.

Yep. Besides Blu-Ray movies are awesome.

 

[AV]

Hahaha I can't believe we got a sequel to that thread

Hahahahaha

 

[Orenji Neko]

Just did a quick search for “advanced digital disc” and came up with nada. Seriously, is this some kind of joke?

So advanced, and so out there, that you cannot find it yet. Wait for Mr. Bunton; he will show us all the light in good time, lmao.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Can't they make 100gb+ blu rays? Not an expert here.

BD-XL can go up to 6 layers, the most common is the triple layer 100GB, but 128GB, 200GB and 300GB exist.

 

[Lord Malachite]

BD-XL can go up to 6 layers, the most common is the triple layer 100GB, but 128GB, 200GB and 300GB exist.

This right here is all the reason there is no need to abandon the format for a very long time--or at least until the point when fast, reliable internet is so widespread we can all be streaming games at 4 or 8K, 60fps without any drops in quality and totally imperceptible input lag.

I'm rather certain that day is a long, long way away. Until then, I'll be sticking with physical media for mainline titles as long as they are distributed that way; and I'll download smaller titles (or larger ones on those occasions when you can get them on console for significantly cheaper than physical, but that's not often).

The rest of the OP seems to have been written from some kind of fantasy land where Blu-Ray suffers from defects that don't exist and imaginary disc formats rule the roost. Just the idea that no one is buying films on Blu-Ray disc is kind of silly. Sure, the format isn't exactly setting the sales charts on fire, but if no one was buying them, studios wouldn't bother releasing them in the format, and you would not be able to find them on standard store shelves either, they'd be special order items.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Netflix Hulu youtube have crushed both

Yeah, I install all my console games from Youtube.

 

[nightmare-slain]

it's because of people stuck in the past that they need to put it in. you'll get little kids bitching and moaning because "the prices are too high!!11!!!!!" for digital games. eh, not really. and then you'll get those saying "But i like to OWN my games! i want to COLLECT them!" ...you do NOT own those games lol. these days so many games need access to internet for patches/DLC and multiplayer. there are still some games you can just put the disc in and get the full experience but most aren't. 20 years from now i bet most games will be unplayable or you won't get the full experience.

IMO sony should've ditched the optical drive and used that wasted space to beef up the specs/cooling. but oh no......because of these people we're stuck in 2007. well, thanks!

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

it's because of people stuck in the past that they need to put it in. you'll get little kids bitching and moaning because "the prices are too high!!11!!!!!" for digital games. eh, not really. and then you'll get those saying "But i like to OWN my games! i want to COLLECT them!" ...you do NOT own those games lol. these days so many games need access to internet for patches/DLC and multiplayer. there are still some games you can just put the disc in and get the full experience but not anymore. 20 years from now i bet most games will be unplayable or you won't get the full experience.

IMO sony should've ditched the optical drive and used that wasted space to beef up the specs/cooling. but oh no......because of these people we're stuck in 2007. well, thanks!

I can't sell my digital game. I can sell my physical copy. Until that changes, physical is my preference.

 

[nightmare-slain]

I can't sell my digital game. I can sell my physical copy. Until that changes, physical is my preference.

to be fair that is probably the only positive of owning a physical game but any money you get back is not worth it IMO.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

to be fair that is probably the only positive of owning a physical game but any money you get back is not worth it IMO.

Disagree. I bought RDR2, played it for roughly 8 hours, hated it, brought it to CEX and received £40.

 

[Hayriko]

This whole thread gives me the giggles

 

[Evilms]

It would be nice if they could get started on the BD XL.

 

[DanielsM]

This whole thread gives me the giggles

Everyone is waving/yelling for Freedom to come back for another pass by.

 

[Pachi72]

Yeah BD is dead. Into the Spider-Verse is amazons best selling Blu-ray

 

[Afro Republican]

Yeah BD is dead. Into the Spider-Verse is amazons best selling Blu-ray

I'm sure he'll say Amazon is having a fire sale and trying to get rid of stock, lol

 

[Afro Republican]

I'm betting Op is either going to make up an article about this "Timothy" guy, post an article that has nothing to do with his argument but spins it, or abandon this thread and make another one.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

I never read so much nonsense in a single thread on GAF before

Blu-Ray will help with fast install times (after that digital and physical are identical, BC with physical discs, trade, etc.

There is basically no downside in having Blu-ray as an option.

Shit we have all forgotten him ( i can't remember his name it's in the top of my tongue) that wonderful tech guy, with the long threads full of software and hardware jargon, and mind blowing cientifical explanations, and links links everywhere,... i think i remember his last crusade being _ ps4 br player his 4k ready secret sauce, only needed hdmi port software update! something they were great reading!

So tell me how a Blu-ray drive can somehow make tech that's making load times go from 15 seconds to under 1 second useless & void?

Cerny was lying, didn't you read the all post?!

HeresJohny obsessed with $399
FreedomCo obsessed with BluRay
Afro obsessed with Poll
Voost obssesed with anticonsumer
KageyK obsessed with the word astroturf
Monsterkillah obsessed with Brie Larson giff

Anything else im missing?

I'm obsessed with peanuts
(jk after this post I'm obsessed with you!... Should have been the first post! )

My head is spinning and hurting... I love Gaf!

 

[alabtrosMyster]

There is so much wrong in this post, but I'll concentrate on these two "points"

2. You can't tout that you are going to have a "fast SSD Drive" in the PS5 and say loads will take one second if you are still using Bluray. When you install from Bluray you're also running the Bluray data and codecs on the machine, which an SSD drive won't do much to increase the speed of because that format is naturally slow, especially since it checks DRM. Even if you were to add a bit of laser disc read, it would only marginally increase the speed. It's like you having a 20watt phone wanting a 30wat charge from the charger, you can't charge at 30 wats if the phone is capped at 20, the SSD drive is basically useless outside Digital games.

3. With #2 being true it begs the question for why they don't either go with the new Advanced Digital discs or just scrap discs altogether and go all digital for the PS5? It doesn't make sense to hype an SSD drive if the SSD drive doesn't do anything. Actually having games load in a second would be a great sales pitch and would be considerably more profitable. It would also result in your console being cheaper to produce.

TLDR: Downloading a game v.s. copying it from a physical disk is pretty much the same as far as the bits are concerned. I'd like to have a bit of what you're smoking, it seems to be very good material.

On the PS4, the bluray disk image is copied bit-by-bit to the disk drive before the game can be used - however you can start playing without a performance hit BEFORE the game has finished copying itself... Same goes for downloads, all this because of dedicated hardware, and well oiled software.

The only difference between the downloaded games, and their bluray counter part, is how the DRM key is handled, on the physical games, the media acts as the key (proof of ownership) on the downloaded versions your Sony account stores the access rights to specific software.

The Bluray drive as a delivery mechanism is still pretty fast compared to most internet connections, even if you add the drive to the store to purchase the game.

Benefits of Bluray
+ You can resell your disks, if you want to
+ You can buy cheap used games yourself
+ No need to develop a new media storage system that really only serves to speed up the install time
+ You can still play your games once Sony decided to close its online store, or discontinue support for the PS4, even if you un-installed them
+
Benefits of Downloaded games
+ Convenience (you can buy them from the couch, change game without having to get up, etc.)
+ They take up no space, outside the console
+ Pre-orders can be pre-loaded and played instantly upon "release"
+ If you have a fast internet connection they can install pretty fast
+ Transparently unlimited storage capability (well, limited to the free space on your console)

Equivalent between the two
+ Most games are the same price on release day
+ Performance is identical once they are installed on the machine's HardDrive/SSD drive
+ Games look as good either way

It's really a choice between valuing your ability to keep your games as long as you want (or resell them ASAP), and convenience (believe me you pay a lot for that convenience, it's just so transparent that I think most people will just do it in the end).

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Yeah, Sony should go cartridge. It would also be in-line with their evolving plans to make PS VR more portable and wireless. I could imagine a cartridge-only (no Blu Ray drive), "PS5 Portable VR" console unit that is small enough to carry in a backpack so that people could try VR in the wild.

Sony should still include a disc tray for backwards compatibility and movie-watching, of course. Even for a "dead format", Blu Ray is still popular among general consumers.

Nah cartridges cost too much compared to discs, and there's hassle if many are manufactured and they don't sell.

Their new ssd solution solves practically all issues, they can sell larger upgrades and newer models with more capacity throughout the ps5's life.

Digital only is not worth it because there are caps, and also the games are getting too massive. Cartridges are still expensive especially 100+GB ones, and especially compared to 10cent discs.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Nah cartridges cost too much compared to discs, and there's hassle if many are manufactured and they don't sell.

Their new ssd solution solves practically all issues, they can sell larger upgrades and newer models with more capacity throughout the ps5's life.

Digital only is not worth it because there are caps, and also the games are getting too massive. Cartridges are still expensive especially 100+GB ones, and especially compared to 10cent discs.

If they have any plans to make a portability-focused PS5 (which then offers a relatively mobile VR experience), cartridges would be a good match. It's just speculation, though, and since we know they're already including a Blu Ray drive for BC, it's highly unlikely they would include a second format specific to the PS5.

 

[Three]

Just in time for Xbone SAD edition. Now the random 'Blu-ray is the devil' posts out of the blu make sense.

How many times have you linked the same article in your post too.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Everyone is waving/yelling for Freedom to come back for another pass by.

 

[Virex]

Isn't this like the 100th "I hate Blu-ray" thread from the same OP? It's seriously getting a bit old now.

 

[GermanZepp]

If the spiderman load times demo were real point two of your list is crap.

 

[Ar¢tos]

 

[Starlight Lotice]

BRING BACK LASERDISC!

 

[Afro Republican]

Isn't this like the 100th "I hate Blu-ray" thread from the same OP? It's seriously getting a bit old now.

No just two, they just drag so long it feels like multiple threads. Lol.

Speaking of. Isn't today the day Op reveals to us the professional analysts of a one Mr.Timothy Button?

 

[Dabaus]

I said this in another thread:

Cerny coming out stating that the PS5 will have a disc drive is a very interesting talking point. Why did he bother to bring up something which would seem so obvious as a talking point? Did sony hear Microsoft is considering not having a disc drive? Is sony telegraphing to gamestop, best buy, target, etc. that they arent going all in on digital like Microsoft is and bartering for preferential treatment from them? Maybe since Microsoft is aiming for more power they have to cut costs in other areas and a disc drive is something they cut out? Small point he made but has alot of implications.

 

[spawn]

The system is downloading and installing the game off of the Blu-ray once it's inserted. Once it's installed the blu-ray acts as a DRM check that you still own the game. I don't think what you're saying here is correct. The world is going more digital, but people still own dvd's and blu-rays. I don't want to have to buy a separate Blu-ray player.

 

[onQ123]

BRING BACK LASERDISC!

I'll see your Laserdisc & I raise you a Capacitance Electronic Disc

 

[Pagusas]

So much wrong with the OP....

 

[nowhat]

I frequent the Internet, so I see a lot of retarded shit on regular basis.

But I have to say, even by Internet standards this thread has been exceptionally retarded shit. Bravo OP.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I frequent the Internet, so I see a lot of retarded shit on regular basis.

But I have to say, even by Internet standards this thread has been exceptionally retarded shit. Bravo OP.

Kotaku should do an article on it.

 

[Afro Republican]

He's taking longer than expected. Probably trying to photoshop an article from 2006. Lol

 

[AgentP]

Blu-Ray for movies is kind of dead, as a delivery device for bytes, who cares? The name is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is price. Media price and drive prices are low due to mass production. Using anything else is suicide, it will be expensive or proprietary and expensive.

 

[Orenji Neko]

Shit we have all forgotten him ( i can't remember his name it's in the top of my tongue) that wonderful tech guy, with the long threads full of software and hardware jargon, and mind blowing cientifical explanations, and links links everywhere,... i think i remember his last crusade being _ ps4 br player his 4k ready secret sauce, only needed hdmi port software update! something they were great reading!

I remember that guy from when I read GAF but wasn’t a member lol. I think his name was Jeff Rigby or something.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Kotaku should do an article on it.

Even better, a Forbes contributor article.