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[Westbahnhof]

Please dont confuse the inaccurate horseshoe theory with the completely accurate fish hook theory.

You cannot be serious
Edit: Okay, I googled it and it's basically a communist meme, not a real theory.

 

[SuperBanana]

Yes, but most liberals (and people in general) don't think big enough. What's going to happen in a society where labor has no value and everything from a taxi to food service to an accountant is automated? No one wants to talk about that.

Visit North Korea and the Eastern Bloc then tell me communism is good. On paper it sounds wonderful but then you give total power to a person and total power corrupts and suddenly you have a dictator on your hands.

 

[sasliquid]

I've said it already here, the far-left is tolerated and seen with good eyes on Gaf. As another user pointed out, sickle and hammer are accepted here, the swastika is not, and it shouldn't, of course, but there is no difference between them. They represent murder, dictatorship, surpressing of human rights, starvation and so on.

I'd argue that the former (communism) in theory does not rely on the violent suppression on others due to their race.

Nazism does.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Visit North Korea and the Eastern Bloc then tell me communism is good. On paper it sounds wonderful but then you give total power to a person and total power corrupts and suddenly you have a dictator on your hands.

You are conflating authoritarianism with communism. The two aren't instrinsticly linked.

As I explained on the last page communism is perfectly achievable within a technologically advanced free democratic society.

 

[cromofo]

Yes, but most liberals (and people in general) don't think big enough. What's going to happen in a society where labor has no value and everything from a taxi to food service to an accountant is automated? No one wants to talk about that.

Isn't social democracy what you want then? Nordic model?

I'm keen on it myself and I think it paves a way for the future. As for full automation and AI, that is left to be seen and society will develop towards it slowly.

Communism with robots or without is wrong and it will lead to collapse as it led numerous times throughout history.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Isn't social democracy what you want then? Nordic model?

I'm keen on it myself and I think it paves a way for the future.

Communism with robots or without is wrong.

Social democracy is a step. It still relies on a capitalist economic system. Pure egalitarianism cannot be achieved in an economic system that values profits over people. Welfare capitalism is even more insidious. It's like a mosquito, it injects you with a numbing agent so you don't feel it drain the blood from you.

 

[PeskyToaster]

It was so awesome they had to build a wall to keep people away.

 

[Mihos]

Socialism is like having a nation wide HOA. Fuck that.

 

[Oersted]

When did I bring up West Germany in my post or said that it was or wasn't more male dominated?

Also, even if it was more male dominated than East (which it wasn't besides them being more open to have women on the work force because they wanted everyone in labour), East Germany literally abused, suppressed and manipulated its people, spied on them and fostered a culture of surveillance where people should report everyone on the government's behalf. What is even the point of your post?



Huh, not sure how I didn't knew about this term before

Considered reading the OP? The article is about the life of women in Eastern and Western Germany. Western Germany was closer to USA than to a free society in many social matters.

This doesn't change the fact that the DDR was a regime which was deadwrong (mildly put) on many things, don't worry about that.

 

[cromofo]

Social democracy is a step. It still relies on a capitalist economic system. Pure egalitarianism cannot be achieved in an economic system that values profits over people. Welfare capitalism is even more insidious. It's like a mosquito, it injects you with a numbing agent so you don't feel it drain the blood from you.

Utopia is a very far reach.

I'll stick with improving on and within capitalism and learning from history.

 

[SuperBanana]

You are conflating authoritarianism with communism. The two aren't instrinsticly linked.

As I explained on the last page communism is perfectly achievable within a technologically advanced free democratic society.

What? Communism IS Authoritarianism. They go hand in hand. The government controls everything. America is already extremely corrupt politically and you think they'd be all good and pure with MORE power? Imagine Trump and GOP with the complete and total power over the people. Holy shit. In a perfect, magical world communism can work but we're not in a perfect world and total power corrupts.

 

[ViviOggi]

If it is better for society the free market will take care of it.

LUL

 

[Drencrom]

Considered reading the OP? The article is about the life of women in Eastern and Western Germany. Western Germany was closer to USA than to a free society in many social matters.

This doesn't change the fact that the DDR was a regime which was deadwrong (mildly put) on many things, don't worry about that.

I know this study was comparing East with West Germany, I still don't get how and why I was supposedly a history revisionist with my original post.

 

[TTOOLL]

I'd argue that the former (communism) in theory does not rely on the violent suppression on others due to their race.

Nazism does.

It's a shame it does in practice, right? Every single Communism regimen is/was violent. Communism has killed way more people than Nazism. Both are trash and should be prohibited.

 

[SuperBanana]

Theoretical communism is non-authoritarian. It's a stateless, without currencies, and classless but transitioning from our current world to a stateless one needs a "Vanguard Party" as Lenin put it, a single-party rule to move into the new world. These turn into authoritarianism. They've never worked, they never will work.

Just tell me would you be fine if the GOP became the single-ruling party of America? No, you wouldn't. Because why? It. Doesn't. Work.

 

[Kill3r7]

Someone should do a modern study of women in Cuba and Miami.

 

[themagicalkitsune]

It's good to see that a thread about socialism lured in all these insecure posters trying to take a jab at communism.

 

[typist]

Another explanation being that in a state where any other form of entertainment is either heavily censored (so practically unusable) or semi-illegal, sex is the best entertainment left. Also, the often lack of electricity and usage of candle lights instead might prove very romantic.

Sure, having your job guaranteed no matter how poor you are at your job makes everybody relaxed too.

This seems like a plausible explanation which doesn't whitewash but in fact highlights the problems that existed in East Germany.

Hunter gatherers might have enjoyed better sex lives too, that doesn't mean that their societies were better in other ways.

 

[curls]

Utopia is a very far reach.

I'll stick with improving on and within capitalism and learning from history.

That doesn't sound very sustainable.

 

[cromofo]

That doesn't sound very sustainable.

Certainly is for the most prosperous countries in the world.

 

[Oersted]

I know this study was comparing East with West Germany, I still don't get how and why I was supposedly a history revisionist with my original post.

Eastern Germany: Allowed to work, maternity leave, great childcare system

Western Germany: He owned her stuff and she needed his approval for work, lol, lol


Some things were better. Doesn't outweight the shit the regime did or make it any better.

 

[sasliquid]

Certainly is for the most prosperous countries in the world.

*looks at current climate catastrophe*

*looks at how capitalism helps drive said climate catastrophe but giving the fossil fuel industry a disproportionate amount of power etc*

Yes very sustainable

 

[Drencrom]

Eastern Germany: Allowed to work, maternity leave, great childcare system

Western Germany: He owned her stuff and she needed his approval for work, lol, lol


Some things were better. Doesn't outweight the shit the regime did or make it any better.

Exactly, that was the point of my post.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Sex is always better when you're in constant fear of it being your last night alive.

 

[LosDaddie]

What the hell is up with all the posters in here insinuating that people in East fucking Germany had better living standards than in a modern western society and that East Germany wasn't a horrible dictatorship that completely crippled its people?

Fuck outta here with that delusional history revisionism

Can't revision history if you never knew it to begin with

There are quite a few self-declared communists on this board. It would be funny if it weren't sad.

Savage.

 

[cromofo]

*looks at current climate catastrophe*

*looks at how capitalism helps drive said climate catastrophe but giving the fossil fuel industry a disproportionate amount of power etc*

Yes very sustainable

Some of the countries are doing their bit to counter that, excluding the US at the moment.

That's what improving on and within capitalism means.

I don't think capitalism is perfect.

 

[Oersted]

Exactly, that was the point of my post.

I read your post as people in East fucking Germany didn't have better living standards. Sorry for that. My point was while overall this being indeed the case, in some cases it simply isn't.

And these few cases did effect women in particular in their everyday life.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Theoretical communism is non-authoritarian. It's a stateless, without currencies, and classless but transitioning from our current world to a stateless one needs a "Vanguard Party" as Lenin put it, a single-party rule to move into the new world. These turn into authoritarianism. They've never worked, they never will work.

Just tell me would you be fine if the GOP became the single-ruling party of America? No, you wouldn't. Because why? It. Doesn't. Work.

Marx didn't get everything right. 19th century or even 20th century communist theory doesn't apply anymore. We've made vast technological advances that they could never dream of. Communism doesn't need to be stateless, there doesn't need to be a "Vanguard Party". Communism in the second half of the 21st century can exist within a free democratic framework. This is techno-communism, not anarcho-communism. The means of production will be in every home.

We Will take steps. Make small and large reforms over decades to the point where capitalism is gone and you didn't even realize it happened.

 

[AbsolutBro]

It was so awesome they had to build a wall to keep people away.

I grew up in Germany during the 80s, and went to see the wall at Checkpoint Charlie. Crazy to think it came down right after we left. Well, we left shortly after the border was opened, but before the actual wall came down.

 

[sasliquid]

Some of the countries are doing their bit to counter that, excluding the US at the moment.

That's what improving on and within capitalism means.

I don't think capitalism is perfect.

They aren't doing enough though even with America under Obama, millions will still die and billions will have their lives be made worse due to the climate catastrophe capitalism has made worse.

Tbf when i say I consider myself socialist I mean I just want state provided options for the health, education, transport and energy sectors with higher minimum wages and strickter laws to limit financial inequality. Because I'm happy for some industries to be private I could be seen an capitalist but my ideas would be seen as far left in many countries.

 

[AbsolutBro]

The means of production will be in every home.

Do the means of production create themselves? Do homes full of these means of production suddenly become free?

 

[Drencrom]

I read your post as people in East fucking Germany didn't have better living standards. Sorry for that. My point was while overall this being indeed the case, in some cases it simply isn't.

And these few cases did effect women in particular in their everyday life.

East Germany most definitely didn't have better living standards overall. The few aspects women had it better than their West counterparts was something out of necessity, like having women in the workforce. Having a huge portion of your population not working in an authorian/communist society will result in an collapse and they knew it. Daycare was something women all had so that they could work more, simple as that.

 

[patapuf]

*looks at current climate catastrophe*

*looks at how capitalism helps drive said climate catastrophe but giving the fossil fuel industry a disproportionate amount of power etc*

Yes very sustainable

I mean, if we compare the ecological track record of communist states it's not exactly a worthy alternative. Looking at the wastelands of the Aral lake and other catastrophes.

Unless they make a conscious effort to, humans in general don't take good care of their environment. Even societies where money and modern technology doesn't exist.

 

[biggersmaller]

Do we have any actual details on the stats behind this batshit thesis? This is worse than the cancer causes/cancer prevents stories on the 10:00 news.

"Yes, academics overwhelmingly risked their lives fleeing communism to avoid censorship and starvation - but let's suggest Soviet employment and daycare centers meant increased female orgasms. Let's base a click bait article off a handful of testimonies!!!!"

You know what actual historical evidence suggests? East Berlin was the most successful region of Soviet Expansion, but even then it was a fucking shit hole that women risked their livelihoods and lives of their children to desperately escape. Finding one woman to say she experienced "freedom" under communism doesn't make it so. Listen, capitalism isn't perfect - but everyone enjoys so SO many more fundamental rights. Anyone would rather be poor in any modern western culture than any communist country. To romanticize communisms only reveals the ignorant elitism afforded by the orgasm denying culture you so detest.

 

[FiggyCal]

Which do you think is worse for a woman, modern day US society or Eastern Germany's?

Just to make is clear I'm not making a statement either way, just curious.

Honestly, I think it's safe to take a stance on that one.

Women getting orgasms doesn't make East Germany lest despotic.

 

[HarryHengst]

Isn't social democracy what you want then? Nordic model?

I'm keen on it myself and I think it paves a way for the future. As for full automation and AI, that is left to be seen and society will develop towards it slowly.

Communism with robots or without is wrong and it will lead to collapse as it led numerous times throughout history.

Ah yes, all those past times we had communism with robots. I still fondly remember the global collapse of 2008 caused by communist robots!

 

[cromofo]

Ah yes, all those past times we had communism with robots. I still fondly remember the global collapse of 2008 caused by communist robots!

Proofreading is not hard.

Scratch that; reading is not hard.

 

[sasliquid]

I mean, if we compare the ecological track record of communist states it's not exactly a worthy alternative. Looking at the wastelands of the Aral lake and other catastrophes.

Unless they make a conscious effort to, humans in general don't take good care of their environment. Even societies where money and modern technology doesn't exist.

Yes but those are local environmental issues, the increase in discussion in climate change only occurred post Soviet Union so there is little way to show "communist" countries have more effectively curbed emissions but a government with its hand more firmly over the energy sector would have a much better ability to curtail the issue.

It's hard not to see the link between capitalism and climate change after all.

 

[HarryHengst]

Do we have any actual details on the stats behind this batshit thesis? This is worse than the cancer causes/cancer prevents stories on the 10:00 news.

"Yes, academics overwhelmingly risked their lives fleeing communism to avoid censorship and starvation - but let's suggest Soviet employment and daycare centers meant increased female orgasms. Let's base a click bait article off a handful of testimonies!!!!"

You know what actual historical evidence suggests? East Berlin was the most successful region of Soviet Expansion, but even then it was a fucking shit hole that women risked their livelihoods and lives of their children to desperately escape. Finding one woman to say she experienced "freedom" under communism doesn't make it so. Listen, capitalism isn't perfect - but everyone enjoys so SO many more fundamental rights. Anyone would rather be poor in any modern western culture than any communist country. To romanticize communisms only reveals the ignorant elitism afforded by the orgasm denying culture you so detest.

There is plenty of evidence of people thinking their lives got worse after the collapse of the soviet union. Not hard to find. But i guess its all just nostalgia because nothing can be better than struggling for jobs and food under liberal capitalism!

But here: Majority of Eastern Germans Feel Life Better under Communism. Most Eastern european nations have large parts of their people who feel that life got worse, even with the possiblity of eating bubble gum now.

 

[biggersmaller]

Doesn't surprise me at all, makes total sense. I'm sure everyone had better sex, not just women. Women are happier and in turn men too.

You know what was a real damper on communist sex? Censorship and starving to death.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Ah yes, all those past times we had communism with robots. I still fondly remember the global collapse of 2008 caused by communist robots!

He's saying that communism will collapse with or without robots. Probably because it has proven to not be able to handle external pressure from competing nations very well. Can't expect the current economic situation to last forever. Nothing does. I expect "the next big thing" will evolve from successful capitalist countries rather than failed communist ideology. Most of the biggest proponents of Communism collapsed (Soviet Union), are introducing capitalism (China), or on the verge of something (Venezuela) while capitalism is still going strong but clearly there's some clamor for change.

 

[HarryHengst]

He's saying that communism will collapse with or without robots. Probably because it has proven to not be able to handle external pressure from competing nations very well. Can't expect the current economic situation to last forever. Nothing does. I expect "the next big thing" will evolve from successful capitalist countries rather than failed communist ideology. Most of the biggest proponents of Communism collapsed (Soviet Union), are introducing capitalism (China), or on the verge of something (Venezuela) while capitalism is still going strong but clearly there's some clamor for change.

Hmm yes, its kinda hard to not collapse when a global superpower is actively working to sabotage everything you do. But hey, guess only capitalism can work!

 

[The Albatross]

Oh give me a fucking break.

The sex was great!

I mean, our children starved to death, we were forced to eat our parents, and our homosexual friends were sent to concentration camp, but think about the sex!

 

[HarryHengst]

You know what was a real damper on communist sex? Censorship and starving to death.

Birth rates in Russia are still below those of the Soviet Union,even after 28 years of capitalism.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Do we have any actual details on the stats behind this batshit thesis? This is worse than the cancer causes/cancer prevents stories on the 10:00 news.

"Yes, academics overwhelmingly risked their lives fleeing communism to avoid censorship and starvation - but let's suggest Soviet employment and daycare centers meant increased female orgasms. Let's base a click bait article off a handful of testimonies!!!!"

You know what actual historical evidence suggests? East Berlin was the most successful region of Soviet Expansion, but even then it was a fucking shit hole that women risked their livelihoods and lives of their children to desperately escape. Finding one woman to say she experienced "freedom" under communism doesn't make it so. Listen, capitalism isn't perfect - but everyone enjoys so SO many more fundamental rights. Anyone would rather be poor in any modern western culture than any communist country. To romanticize communisms only reveals the ignorant elitism afforded by the orgasm denying culture you so detest.

No stats, of course.

The whole "Red Century" series by the New York Times, which seems to be glorifying socialism/communism, is outright disgusting.


Yes, let's ignore the massive oppression of freedoms. Yes, let's ignore dictators imprisoning and sometimes even killing the political opposition. Yes, let's ignore the massive starvation in both the USSR and the PRC. (There's documented evidence of Ukrainians just starving and dying in the middle of the streets when stuff was at its worst in the 1930s.) Yes, let's ignore that Venezuela's economy was recently run to the ground. And so many other documented examples of the failures of communism that it will take me a whole day to type out.

Yes, let's ignore all of that documented history and economic data because a couple of women anecdotally had orgasms.

Get the hell out of my face, NYT, y'all are a bunch of clowns.

 

[jackissocool]

Everything is better under socialism

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Oh give me a fucking break.

The sex was great!

I mean, our children starved to death, we were forced to eat our parents because the politburo starved us to death, and our homosexual friends were sent to concentration camp, but think about the sex!

Eating your parents is the greatest aphrodisiac.

 

[HarryHengst]

No stats, of course.

The whole "Red Century" series by the New York Times, which seems to be glorifying socialism/communism, is outright disgusting.


Yes, let's ignore the massive oppression of freedoms. Yes, let's ignore dictators imprisoning and sometimes even killing the political opposition. Yes, let's ignore the massive starvation in both the USSR and the PRC. (There's documented evidence of Ukrainians just starving and dying in the middle of the streets when stuff was at its worst in the 1930s.) Yes, let's ignore that Venezuela's economy was recently run to the ground. And so many other documented examples of the failures of communism that it will take me a whole day to type out.

Yes, let's ignore all of that documented history and economic data because a couple of women anecdotally had orgasms.

Get the hell out of my face, NYT, y'all are a bunch of clowns.

I agree, it's much better to ignore the mass incarceration of non-whites America does. Or the rampant racism of American police who seems to actively search for opportunities to kill non-white people. Or the wars it started to place friendly dictators in places of power to protect financial interests. Or the fact that millions of Americans go hungry every day. Or that child poverty is reaching a level of 43%(!) of all kids in the richest country in the world.

 

[The Albatross]

Eating your parents is the greatest aphrodisiac.

Yeah, the West will never know such eroticism because those CAPITALIST SWINE prevent the truest form of carnal pleasure -- forced, desperate cannibalism.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I've said it already here, the far-left is tolerated and seen with good eyes on Gaf. As another user pointed out, sickle and hammer are accepted here, the swastika is not, and it shouldn't, of course, but there is no difference between them. They represent murder, dictatorship, surpressing of human rights, starvation and so on.

But you might get laid more