• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Why Women Had Better Sex Under Socialism (NY Times)

Hmm yes, its kinda hard to not collapse when a global superpower is actively working to sabotage everything you do. But hey, guess only capitalism can work!

A successful economic system has to be able to survive in the real world in competition with hostile powers, not Candyland. Just because I think 20th century Communism is a failed ideology doesn't mean I think capitalism is the endgame. Also the Soviet Union was also a global superpower working to sabotage the United States. You probably didn't think of it as a capable competitor because its unsustainable economic system lead to its collapse in 1991.
 

Not Drake

Member
Most Eastern european nations have large parts of their people who feel that life got worse, even with the possiblity of eating bubble gum now.

As someone living in Eastern Poland having my family and friends spread across Poland, Belarus and Ukraine, I call total bullshit on that. Stop that, commie. The only group that wishes for the soviet rule to come back are people who directly benefited from the oppressing the people in the old system - members of the ruling party and ex-service forces.
 
As someone living in Eastern Poland having my family and friends spread across Poland, Belarus and Ukraine, I call total bullshit on that. Stop that, commie.

He might be right. People THINK things get worse all the time. They don't realize how much better things have gotten.
"But people say it was better" is a garbage argument when we have actual numbers to show the opposite.
 

Kill3r7

Member
There is plenty of evidence of people thinking their lives got worse after the collapse of the soviet union. Not hard to find. But i guess its all just nostalgia because nothing can be better than struggling for jobs and food under liberal capitalism!

But here: Majority of Eastern Germans Feel Life Better under Communism. Most Eastern european nations have large parts of their
people who feel that life got worse, even with the possiblity of eating bubble gum now.

Have you lived in any of these Eastern European countries? It is not that life was better under communism but rather that for some people democracy and capitalism has yet to bear fruit. Predominantly the elderly and folks who were close to retirement age when the transition occurred. By most accounts the Czech Republic had the smoothest transition from communism to democracy/socialism. Why not poll those folks about how democracy is working out for them?

http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/05/19/czech-commitment-to-free-markets-and-democracy/

1598-2.gif
 

gabbo

Member
I often wonder why western society doesn't put as many resources into daycare and formal supports for new mothers. It's better for society and the economy if their needs are met.

Because 'domestic' work, the work done at home to raise a family is not considered to have a monetary value, at least it hasn't for the most part, thus there's no reason to put money towards it. It's a very rigid way of looking at the roles of parents and gender
 
He might be right. People THINK things get worse all the time. They don't realize how much better things have gotten.
"But people say it was better" is a garbage argument when we have actual numbers to show the opposite.

It's because human memory is malleable and fallible. Like how people in America bemoan the violence and crime rate when it's lower than ever. We don't even need the numbers. We have the remnants of a physical wall they had to build to stem a mass exodus and brain drain. Maybe it was a paradise nobody wanted to live in because it was just so awesome?
 

cromofo

Member
My parents and family lived through communism and experienced it first hand. I'll take their word that it was fucking shit. It was "great" for people who leeched off the system and were in place of power.

My parents still remember the times our German friends used to send us big packages of sweets and food during Christmas and holidays so we could make it through the winter.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Theoretical communism is non-authoritarian. It's a stateless, without currencies, and classless but transitioning from our current world to a stateless one needs a "Vanguard Party" as Lenin put it, a single-party rule to move into the new world. These turn into authoritarianism. They've never worked, they never will work.

Just tell me would you be fine if the GOP became the single-ruling party of America? No, you wouldn't. Because why? It. Doesn't. Work.
The larger issue I would say is that historically the material conditions haven't allowed for a transition to socialism that could exist via popular consensus. Too many people would be worse off during the lengthy transition process. To maintain itself such systems developed into totalitarian regimes, with all the corruption that entails

Conditions are... significant better for that sort of change now if you look inside a single country like the US. Globally it's much tricker, you're going to have to take too much from nations that are well off to aid those we have exploited. I dont know the answer here
 
Women will be happier and less stressed in a society that protects maternity leave, subsidizes day care and encourages an equal division of household labor, for sure. Most of the working mothers I know (myself included) are constantly running ourselves ragged, trying to keep up with all expectations. It's not surprising that this generally interferes with the quality of sex.
True, but it seems like a lot don't want it as they've pledged undying loyalty to trump and the GOP:/
 
The idea that the Soviet Union and other soviet-controlled states in Eastern europe were egalitarian or fair for the sexes is a complete and utter myth that has been thoroughly debunked, and was patently clear to be a myth throughout the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. That some people long for dictatorship after the authoritarian dictatorship crumbles is no surprise, this is incredibly common in all forms of structured societies, a form of Stockholm Syndrome: Former liberated cult members who might still long for the cult, people being abused in extremely religious cultures who block out the abuse and have good things to say about their life, children who are sexually abused by their parents or caretakers, former prisoners who are often bewildered and lonely after leaving prison who can't adjust to the outside world. Peddling articles like, "Well some women want to go back to the Soviet dictatorship," is like the ignorant racist drivel by White Supremacists that "Some blacks longed for the plantation after the Civil War! Life was simpler, happier then! Master provided food for all and our poor, boorish negro didn't have to worry about such difficult things like learning to read and write." Good grief.

There were no feminist movements in the Soviet bloc in the 1960s and 70s, despite feminist movements gaining popularity in every Western country. Why? Well, the Soviets would have told you, "Look! These women need to fight for their rights in these countries -- but the soviet women already have rights!" Is it true? Did women have rights in Soviet Russia all along, and so they never needed women's liberation movements? Well, that's what Grandfather Josef says so it must be true!

There's an old Russian joke that the NYT Moscow bureau chief Hendrick Smith popularized in the West...

Hendrick Smith NYT Moscow Bureau Chief said:
Under capitalism, women are not liberated because they have no opportunity to work. They have to stay at home, go shopping, do the cooking, keep house and take care of the children.
But under socialism, women are liberated. They have the opportunity to work all day and then go home, go shopping, do the cooking, keep house and take care of the children.

The patriarchal dominance in the West is a problem, in Western Europe and the United States, but Soviet bloc countries are the textbook definition of a patriarchy the model with which any Men's Rights Activists strives for. Propaganda posters would celebrate the freedom that Soviet women had, wow, look at the political freedom our women have, they were enfranchised 5 full years before women in the United States! And yet... think... Can anybody think of any woman who ever served in the Soviet politburo? Is there any photo of famous Soviet leadership -- not just the highest leadership but any leadership councils, "representatives," regional boards, advisory groups -- with women serving on them? Of course not.

In the 70 years of Soviet Communism, four women served in government. Four, two of which were under Gorbachev in the waning years of of the Soviet dictatorship, and their is virtually nothing written about their careers, while one was forced to commit suicide due "to scandals," while the KGB covered it up that she died of sudden heart failure.

Women's movements in the fall of the USSR exploded from 1990 to 1999. If the USSR were such a harmonious egalitarian paradise as Pravda and the Kremlin wanted the world to believe, there would have been no women's liberation movement in the former Soviet Union, and yet, there was. And then, by the late 1990s and the rise of Putin and the return of Russian dictatorship, those were brought to a halt. Russia is now known as one of the most mysoginistic, patriarchal societies in the developed world... It's not like this came out of nowhere: It was part of the fabric of Soviet society, woven into the collective consciousness. When the wall came down and a flurry of liberal movements sprouted, and then within a decade, the patriarchic police state had resoundingly reigned them in.

The West, Europe, the United States, is no egalitarian utopia. We all know that. Many of us know that. But if you are trying to convince yourself that the Soviet Union was some paradise of equality, then you're lying to yourself. If you're trying to convince other people that the Soviet Union was a paradise of gender equality, then you're a dishonest ignorant liar.
 
Women will be happier and less stressed in a society that protects maternity leave, subsidizes day care and encourages an equal division of household labor, for sure. Most of the working mothers I know (myself included) are constantly running ourselves ragged, trying to keep up with all expectations. It's not surprising that this generally interferes with the quality of sex.

True words. My wife is experiencing the same. I told her she can quit her job if she wants and focus on the baby. Luckily I have a high salary so we can do that.

Can't imagine how single mothers do it with minimum wage.

I also want to add that women should have at least get one years off when they have a baby.
 
This is the kind of situation in which one shouldn't have a baby.

Sometimes it's not how you plan it tho.

Let's say you have a baby with a good job. Loose your job and can't find another job but a minimum wage one.

Sometimes people break up etc.

Your right tho. Don't get a baby when you have a hard time alone already.
 
The larger issue I would say is that historically the material conditions haven't allowed for a transition to socialism that could exist via popular consensus. Too many people would be worse off during the lengthy transition process. To maintain itself such systems developed into totalitarian regimes, with all the corruption that entails

Conditions are... significant better for that sort of change now if you look inside a single country like the US. Globally it's much tricker, you're going to have to take too much from nations that are well off to aid those we have exploited. I dont know the answer here

Explain how giving total power to one party in a country absolutely rife with greed and corruption like America would be much better than what it was back in the Soviet era.
 
I agree, it's much better to ignore the mass incarceration of non-whites America does. Or the rampant racism of American police who seems to actively search for opportunities to kill non-white people. Or the wars it started to place friendly dictators in places of power to protect financial interests. Or the fact that millions of Americans go hungry every day. Or that child poverty is reaching a level of 43%(!) of all kids in the richest country in the world.

I don't understand this post, it makes no sense at all.

If it's trying to be a critique of the US (and/or our version of capitalism), it's a pretty poor one, due to: (1) hyperbolic terminology being used without statistics; (2) the fact that no one has said capitalism is perfect; (3) there are social and economic issues that people are not ignoring, so not sure where your "let's ignore..." comes from.

0/10 post, try again.
 
As a liberal, I'm often critical of the Right's What Aboutism, when it comes to defending Donald Trump.

Trump does something disgusting, stupid, or destructive, and the Right marches out with:

What about Hillary's emails?
What about Benghazi?
What about Obama's racist pastor!

But if you want to see real What Aboutism, click into a thread where a bunch of delusional No True Scotsmen try to defend Communism and/or the USSR.
 

Kill3r7

Member
True words. My wife is experiencing the same. I told her she can quit her job if she wants and focus on the baby. Luckily I have a high salary so we can do that.

Can't imagine how single mothers do it with minimum wage.

I also want to add that women should have at least get one years off when they have a baby.

Yep. 👍
 
The idea that the Soviet Union and other soviet-controlled states in Eastern europe were egalitarian or fair for the sexes is a complete and utter myth that has been thoroughly debunked, and was patently clear to be a myth throughout the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. That some people long for dictatorship after the authoritarian dictatorship crumbles is no surprise, this is incredibly common in all forms of structured societies, a form of Stockholm Syndrome: Former liberated cult members who might still long for the cult, people being abused in extremely religious cultures who block out the abuse and have good things to say about their life, children who are sexually abused by their parents or caretakers, former prisoners who are often bewildered and lonely after leaving prison who can't adjust to the outside world. Peddling articles like, "Well some women want to go back to the Soviet dictatorship," is like the ignorant racist drivel by White Supremacists that "Some blacks longed for the plantation after the Civil War! Life was simpler, happier then! Master provided food for all and our poor, boorish negro didn't have to worry about such difficult things like learning to read and write." Good grief.

There were no feminist movements in the Soviet bloc in the 1960s and 70s, despite feminist movements gaining popularity in every Western country. Why? Well, the Soviets would have told you, "Look! These women need to fight for their rights in these countries -- but the soviet women already have rights!" Is it true? Did women have rights in Soviet Russia all along, and so they never needed women's liberation movements? Well, that's what Grandfather Josef says so it must be true!

There's an old Russian joke that the NYT Moscow bureau chief Hendrick Smith popularized in the West...



The patriarchal dominance in the West is a problem, in Western Europe and the United States, but Soviet bloc countries are the textbook definition of a patriarchy the model with which any Men's Rights Activists strives for. Propaganda posters would celebrate the freedom that Soviet women had, wow, look at the political freedom our women have, they were enfranchised 5 full years before women in the United States! And yet... think... Can anybody think of any woman who ever served in the Soviet politburo? Is there any photo of famous Soviet leadership -- not just the highest leadership but any leadership councils, "representatives," regional boards, advisory groups -- with women serving on them? Of course not.

In the 70 years of Soviet Communism, four women served in government. Four, two of which were under Gorbachev in the waning years of of the Soviet dictatorship, and their is virtually nothing written about their careers, while one was forced to commit suicide due "to scandals," while the KGB covered it up that she died of sudden heart failure.

Women's movements in the fall of the USSR exploded from 1990 to 1999. If the USSR were such a harmonious egalitarian paradise as Pravda and the Kremlin wanted the world to believe, there would have been no women's liberation movement in the former Soviet Union, and yet, there was. And then, by the late 1990s and the rise of Putin and the return of Russian dictatorship, those were brought to a halt. Russia is now known as one of the most mysoginistic, patriarchal societies in the developed world... It's not like this came out of nowhere: It was part of the fabric of Soviet society, woven into the collective consciousness. When the wall came down and a flurry of liberal movements sprouted, and then within a decade, the patriarchic police state had resoundingly reigned them in.

The West, Europe, the United States, is no egalitarian utopia. We all know that. Many of us know that. But if you are trying to convince yourself that the Soviet Union was some paradise of equality, then you're lying to yourself. If you're trying to convince other people that the Soviet Union was a paradise of gender equality, then you're a dishonest ignorant liar.

Incredibly informative post.
 
Explain how giving total power to one party in a country absolutely rife with greed and corruption like America would be much better than what it was back in the Soviet era.
You don't need to give total power to one party to achieve techno-communism. It's a natural evolution of a naturally liberal free society that is sufficiently technologically advanced.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
My theory is that the rise of young people in the US lusting after totalitarian regimes (right or left) is entirely due to basically 12 years of gridlock in the US political system. So people wish for a fanciful political system where whatever ideas they have can magically be put into law with no political compromises or vote.

As for East Germany, my theory is that if there is limited food then married couples don't get fat and therefore have more sex lol.
 
Women will be happier and less stressed in a society that protects maternity leave, subsidizes day care and encourages an equal division of household labor, for sure. Most of the working mothers I know (myself included) are constantly running ourselves ragged, trying to keep up with all expectations. It's not surprising that this generally interferes with the quality of sex.
Exactly.

I think most people in general are too stressed to have a healthy sex life.

The rat race is showing one of its many effects on quality of life.
 
As a liberal, I'm often critical of the Right's What Aboutism, when it comes to defending Donald Trump.

Trump does something disgusting, stupid, or destructive, and the Right marches out with:

What about Hillary's emails?
What about Benghazi?
What about Obama's racist pastor!

But if you want to see real What Aboutism, click into a thread where a bunch of delusional No True Scotsmen try to defend Communism and/or the USSR.
It baffles my mind. History has taught us time and time again that communism just doesn't work. Communist countries suppress and murder their citizens, and more often than not face utter economic collapse.
 

Mivey

Member
Maybe being a devout Communist who strives to take down Capitalism just makes you better in bed? We shouldn't overthink this.
 
The idea that the Soviet Union and other soviet-controlled states in Eastern europe were egalitarian or fair for the sexes is a complete and utter myth that has been thoroughly debunked, and was patently clear to be a myth throughout the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. That some people long for dictatorship after the authoritarian dictatorship crumbles is no surprise, this is incredibly common in all forms of structured societies, a form of Stockholm Syndrome: Former liberated cult members who might still long for the cult, people being abused in extremely religious cultures who block out the abuse and have good things to say about their life, children who are sexually abused by their parents or caretakers, former prisoners who are often bewildered and lonely after leaving prison who can't adjust to the outside world. Peddling articles like, "Well some women want to go back to the Soviet dictatorship," is like the ignorant racist drivel by White Supremacists that "Some blacks longed for the plantation after the Civil War! Life was simpler, happier then! Master provided food for all and our poor, boorish negro didn't have to worry about such difficult things like learning to read and write." Good grief.

There were no feminist movements in the Soviet bloc in the 1960s and 70s, despite feminist movements gaining popularity in every Western country. Why? Well, the Soviets would have told you, "Look! These women need to fight for their rights in these countries -- but the soviet women already have rights!" Is it true? Did women have rights in Soviet Russia all along, and so they never needed women's liberation movements? Well, that's what Grandfather Josef says so it must be true!

There's an old Russian joke that the NYT Moscow bureau chief Hendrick Smith popularized in the West...



The patriarchal dominance in the West is a problem, in Western Europe and the United States, but Soviet bloc countries are the textbook definition of a patriarchy the model with which any Men's Rights Activists strives for. Propaganda posters would celebrate the freedom that Soviet women had, wow, look at the political freedom our women have, they were enfranchised 5 full years before women in the United States! And yet... think... Can anybody think of any woman who ever served in the Soviet politburo? Is there any photo of famous Soviet leadership -- not just the highest leadership but any leadership councils, "representatives," regional boards, advisory groups -- with women serving on them? Of course not.

In the 70 years of Soviet Communism, four women served in government. Four, two of which were under Gorbachev in the waning years of of the Soviet dictatorship, and their is virtually nothing written about their careers, while one was forced to commit suicide due "to scandals," while the KGB covered it up that she died of sudden heart failure.

Women's movements in the fall of the USSR exploded from 1990 to 1999. If the USSR were such a harmonious egalitarian paradise as Pravda and the Kremlin wanted the world to believe, there would have been no women's liberation movement in the former Soviet Union, and yet, there was. And then, by the late 1990s and the rise of Putin and the return of Russian dictatorship, those were brought to a halt. Russia is now known as one of the most mysoginistic, patriarchal societies in the developed world... It's not like this came out of nowhere: It was part of the fabric of Soviet society, woven into the collective consciousness. When the wall came down and a flurry of liberal movements sprouted, and then within a decade, the patriarchic police state had resoundingly reigned them in.

The West, Europe, the United States, is no egalitarian utopia. We all know that. Many of us know that. But if you are trying to convince yourself that the Soviet Union was some paradise of equality, then you're lying to yourself. If you're trying to convince other people that the Soviet Union was a paradise of gender equality, then you're a dishonest ignorant liar.
Thank you! If anyone is interested in learning more about the Soviet Union read some of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's works. He lived through it and won a Nobel Prize for his writings.
 
Women will be happier and less stressed in a society that protects maternity leave, subsidizes day care and encourages an equal division of household labor, for sure. Most of the working mothers I know (myself included) are constantly running ourselves ragged, trying to keep up with all expectations. It's not surprising that this generally interferes with the quality of sex.

Reading the OP, THIS is my only take-away from the article. So many husbands expect sex from their wives, but don't put 2 + 2 together of why she might be too tired, stressed, resentful, distracted, etc. to want to have sex.

On the issue of socialism vs free markets, we can have capitalism, but it requires a government that actively fights against the consolidation of corporate power, on behalf of the people and workers. "Kill or be killed", "FUCK you I GOT MINE!" capitalism that cares for the short-term individual gains while devouring its own is ultimately bound to collapse.

A "free market" will justify global conglomerates (that control up to 80% of all food supply) introducing poison in foods to cut costs, and buyers fucking beware. Good luck getting food elsewhere. A "free market" will justify corporations buying off politicians like they buy computer desks, to advance policies that are zero-sum games against communities, workers, smaller players, etc.

We don't need a state-controlled communist hell hole in the US, and I don't know a single progressive that would advocate for that (sure enough the "free market" corporate media will try to paint every grassroots progressives as hysterical antifa communists. The free market makes corporate propaganda par for the course). If history is a pendulum that swings back and forth between two extremes, the pendulum of government actions has swung in favor of the wealthy in a grotesque disproportionate way since the 1970's in America (read The Powell Memo). They have captured many of the democratic institutions at every level of civic society (because money makes monkeys dance). This is why our society is collapsing in front of our eyes, why cursory issues of racism and class-ism are reaching a fever pitch in the country, why a radical anti-intellectual demagogue could fool voters through economic nationalism/populism, and why there is a growing movement within the Democratic party to overthrow the imperial corrupted Democrats that have let American workers fall by the wayside (because profits and stocks are guuuud...).
 
As a liberal, I'm often critical of the Right's What Aboutism, when it comes to defending Donald Trump.

Trump does something disgusting, stupid, or destructive, and the Right marches out with:

What about Hillary's emails?
What about Benghazi?
What about Obama's racist pastor!

But if you want to see real What Aboutism, click into a thread where a bunch of delusional No True Scotsmen try to defend Communism and/or the USSR.

I didn't see more than a couple of posters attempting to defend the USSR and communism. One of them linked a meme from r/fullcommunism and tried to pass it off as real, so I'm guessing he's one of those insufferable joke posters whose knowledge of communism starts and ends on reddit and facebook pages like sassy socialist memes.

On the contrary I see heaps of whataboutism from the other side. An article is posted about women having better sex in East Germany and suddenly there's a rush of "what about the failure of the DDR? what about Stalin's great famine in the 1930s? what about the fact that socialism and communism never worked and therefore will never work? what about all the murders, gender inequality and blatant homophobia in the USSR?"

I don't think anyone here in good conscience can claim East Germany was a beacon of equality and a sexual paradise for women, and that's not what the article is about. If you wish to debunk their findings, do so with related evidence.
 
Maybe being a devout Communist who strives to take down Capitalism just makes you better in bed? We shouldn't overthink this.

Be a devout capitalist in the living room and a devout communist in the bedroom..

You don't need to give total power to one party to achieve techno-communism. It's a natural evolution of a naturally liberal free society that is sufficiently technologically advanced.

You mean something like china a one party meritocracy with a semi capitalist market
 

trembli0s

Member
The idea that the Soviet Union and other soviet-controlled states in Eastern europe were egalitarian or fair for the sexes is a complete and utter myth that has been thoroughly debunked, and was patently clear to be a myth throughout the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. That some people long for dictatorship after the authoritarian dictatorship crumbles is no surprise, this is incredibly common in all forms of structured societies, a form of Stockholm Syndrome: Former liberated cult members who might still long for the cult, people being abused in extremely religious cultures who block out the abuse and have good things to say about their life, children who are sexually abused by their parents or caretakers, former prisoners who are often bewildered and lonely after leaving prison who can't adjust to the outside world. Peddling articles like, "Well some women want to go back to the Soviet dictatorship," is like the ignorant racist drivel by White Supremacists that "Some blacks longed for the plantation after the Civil War! Life was simpler, happier then! Master provided food for all and our poor, boorish negro didn't have to worry about such difficult things like learning to read and write." Good grief.

There were no feminist movements in the Soviet bloc in the 1960s and 70s, despite feminist movements gaining popularity in every Western country. Why? Well, the Soviets would have told you, "Look! These women need to fight for their rights in these countries -- but the soviet women already have rights!" Is it true? Did women have rights in Soviet Russia all along, and so they never needed women's liberation movements? Well, that's what Grandfather Josef says so it must be true!

There's an old Russian joke that the NYT Moscow bureau chief Hendrick Smith popularized in the West...



The patriarchal dominance in the West is a problem, in Western Europe and the United States, but Soviet bloc countries are the textbook definition of a patriarchy the model with which any Men's Rights Activists strives for. Propaganda posters would celebrate the freedom that Soviet women had, wow, look at the political freedom our women have, they were enfranchised 5 full years before women in the United States! And yet... think... Can anybody think of any woman who ever served in the Soviet politburo? Is there any photo of famous Soviet leadership -- not just the highest leadership but any leadership councils, "representatives," regional boards, advisory groups -- with women serving on them? Of course not.

In the 70 years of Soviet Communism, four women served in government. Four, two of which were under Gorbachev in the waning years of of the Soviet dictatorship, and their is virtually nothing written about their careers, while one was forced to commit suicide due "to scandals," while the KGB covered it up that she died of sudden heart failure.

Women's movements in the fall of the USSR exploded from 1990 to 1999. If the USSR were such a harmonious egalitarian paradise as Pravda and the Kremlin wanted the world to believe, there would have been no women's liberation movement in the former Soviet Union, and yet, there was. And then, by the late 1990s and the rise of Putin and the return of Russian dictatorship, those were brought to a halt. Russia is now known as one of the most mysoginistic, patriarchal societies in the developed world... It's not like this came out of nowhere: It was part of the fabric of Soviet society, woven into the collective consciousness. When the wall came down and a flurry of liberal movements sprouted, and then within a decade, the patriarchic police state had resoundingly reigned them in.

The West, Europe, the United States, is no egalitarian utopia. We all know that. Many of us know that. But if you are trying to convince yourself that the Soviet Union was some paradise of equality, then you're lying to yourself. If you're trying to convince other people that the Soviet Union was a paradise of gender equality, then you're a dishonest ignorant liar.

Heavens, what a post. Absolutely glorious and thank you for taking the time to share that. Far too many people, on both sides, are willing to overlook the worst parts of their systematic beliefs.
 

iamblades

Member
No stats, of course.

The whole "Red Century" series by the New York Times, which seems to be glorifying socialism/communism, is outright disgusting.


Yes, let's ignore the massive oppression of freedoms. Yes, let's ignore dictators imprisoning and sometimes even killing the political opposition. Yes, let's ignore the massive starvation in both the USSR and the PRC. (There's documented evidence of Ukrainians just starving and dying in the middle of the streets when stuff was at its worst in the 1930s.) Yes, let's ignore that Venezuela's economy was recently run to the ground. And so many other documented examples of the failures of communism that it will take me a whole day to type out.

Yes, let's ignore all of that documented history and economic data because a couple of women anecdotally had orgasms.

Get the hell out of my face, NYT, y'all are a bunch of clowns.

The NYT has been doing this shit since Walter Duranty won a Pulitzer for fellating Josef Stalin and denying the Holodomor.

Shit is consistent through like 80 years of editorial content and is never really effectively retracted when proven to be full of shit, and is the reason I will never respect the NYT as a journalistic source.
 

mlclmtckr

Banned
The NYT has been doing this shit since Walter Duranty won a Pulitzer for fellating Josef Stalin and denying the Holodomor.

Shit is consistent through like 80 years of editorial content and is never really effectively retracted when proven to be full of shit, and is the reason I will never respect the NYT as a journalistic source.

Really? Really?

Not for being instrumental in the run up to the Iraq war?
 
Not to defend that miserable failure of a state the GDR was, but seem people here seem to lump all the ex-east bloc states together. Yes, there were shortages of supplies in the GDR and the living standards were lagging behind the west, but let's not paint the state as some kind of post-apocalyptic wasteland. The only time in the post WW2-era that people were actually starving in Germany were the first years after the war, and mostly in cities that were destroyed during said war.
What was lacking was diversity in the food supply. If anything, people in the GDR ate to much and unhealthy: http://www.kas.de/wf/de/71.6635/
Yes, the range of goods was a joke compared to Western Germany or other developed western countries, but people in the GDR still had living standards the people in other states of the Eastern Bloc (sadly) could only dream of.
 
Be a devout capitalist in the living room and a devout communist in the bedroom..



You mean something like china a one party meritocracy with a semi capitalist market
No I mean a form of society where technology has rendered labor obsolete and worthless. One that capitalism can't adapt to. It's one that has never been possible before and never attempted.
 

sphagnum

Banned
The larger issue I would say is that historically the material conditions haven't allowed for a transition to socialism that could exist via popular consensus. Too many people would be worse off during the lengthy transition process. To maintain itself such systems developed into totalitarian regimes, with all the corruption that entails

This is a spot on materialist analysis.
 

Ogodei

Member
Is this a serious question? East Germany, no question. Relative to the rest of the Eastern bloc, East Germany was quite successful however it was still an economic black hole compared to the West. Currency exchange gave way to a barter economy due to government price fixing. Basic goods were in short supply. Skilled workers, including doctors escaped the country left and right leading to a degradation in healthcare services. Childcare, while state-run and financed, was subject to the same indoctrination that was happening throughout the rest of the Eastern bloc.

It wasn't WW2 Germany, but it wasn't a happy existence either.

I would be curious to know how the alleged notion that women had better sex under a communist regime could possibly correlate with the exceedingly low birth rate in Eastern Germany.

Widely available government-subsidized abortions (was basically the go-to birth control because they often lacked more sophisticated methods).
 
I think the NYT calling brutal communist dictatorships "Socialism" is not very helpful for socialism as a political movement.

Though communism is a form of socialism.
 

Eylos

Banned
There's some incomplete informations on posts above me.


"The legal equality of women and men was established during the Bolshevik revolution in 1917. Lenin saw women as a force of labor, that had previously been untapped and encouraged women to partake in the communist revolution. He stated, “Petty housework crushes, strangles, stultifies and degrades [the woman], chains her to the kitchen and to the nursery, and wastes her labor on barbarously unproductive, petty, nerve-racking, stultifying and crushing drudgery."[28] Women needed to be economically free from men, and this meant that there had to be an allowance of women to enter the work force. The number of women who entered the work force rose from 423,200 in 1923 to 885,00 in 1930.[29]

To achieve this increase of women in the work force, the new communist government issued the First Family Code. This code separated marriage from the church, allowed a couple to choose a surname, gave illegitimate children the same rights as legitimate children, gave rights to maternal entitlements, health and safety protections at work, and provided women with the right to a divorce on extended grounds.[30] In 1920, Soviet government legalized abortion. Labor laws also assisted women. Women were given equal rights in regards to insurance in case of illness, eight-week paid maternity-leave, and a minimum wage standard that was set for both men and women. Both sexes were also afforded paid holiday leave.[31] These measures were put into place to produce a quality labor force from both of the sexes. While the reality was that not all women were granted these rights, they established a pivot from the traditional systems of the Russian imperialist.[31]

To oversee this code and women’s freedoms, the communist party created a specialist women’s department, called the Zhenotdel.[32] The department produced propaganda encouraging more women to become a part of the urban population and the communist revolutionary party. The 1920s experienced changes in the urban centers of family policy, sexuality, and women’s political activism. The creation of the “new soviet woman”, who was self-sacrificing and dedicated to the revolutionary cause, paved the way for the expectation of women to come. In 1925, with the number of divorces increasing, Zhenotdel created the second family plan, proposing a common law marriage for couples that were living together. However, a year later, the government created a marriage law as a reaction to the de facto marriages that were causing inequality for women.[33] As a result of the policy implementation of the New Economic Plan (NEP), if a man left his de facto wife, she was left unable to secure assistance. Men had no legal ties and as such, if a woman got pregnant, he would be able to leave, and not be legally responsible to assist the woman or child; this led to an increase in the number of homeless children.[33] Because a de facto wife enjoyed no rights, the government sought to resolve this through the 1926 marriage law, granting registered and unregistered marriages equal rights and emphasized the obligations that came with marriage.

By 1930, the Zhenotdel was disbanded, as the government claimed that their work was completed. Women began to enter the Soviet workforce at a scale that had never before been seen. However, in the mid-1930s, there was a return to the more traditional and conservative values in many areas of social and family policy. Abortion was made illegal, homosexuality was declared a crime, legal differences between legitimate and illegitimate children were restored, and divorce was once again difficult to attain."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Russia


To sumarize:
Divorce, abortion, same sex marriages, equal work rights etc.

Stalin fucked up Everything If you noticed the return of conservatives views on ussr comes with stalin.
 
Top Bottom