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[10k]

Is having 32MB of edram, rumored in the WiiU, a bottleneck, or does it not have any bearing to the size of the texture?

Not a bottleneck. It can help a lot with loading textures or adding some AA without draining the GPU of its memory pool.

All I know is, having played Mass Effect 2 on PC with the texture mod of 4096x4096 for faces and 1024x1024 for bodies it is crisp and clear at1080p, even more so at 720p. No need for 8k textures in consoles. I would be happy with 2k for faces and 1k for bodies instead of the 512x512 and 256x256 used this gen.

 

[EatChildren]

It's not. You're free to post them. If you're not verified, we're free not to believe them. It's really that simple. It's second hand information - as long as it's stated as such, it most likely won't get you banned even if it turns out to be wrong.

Well, even if someone is 'verified' you're free not to believe them.

The devkit spec leak matches up with everything I had been told about the devkits.

 

[Rösti]

This isn't really relevant unless we know when Foxconn's fiscal year end is. If their fiscal year = calendar year, then it hints at something 3DS XL and Wii U during the July - September timeframe. However, if their fiscal year-end =/= calendar year (i.e. Nintendo's fiscal year end is March 31) then it could be that their Q3 encompasses the October-December timeframe. Seeing as how it mentions the release of 3DS XL in Q3, and we know that is releasing July-Aug, we can assume Q3 = July - September. But I think the Wii U part may just be about production of the system and not the fact it is going on sale in Q3.

Foxconn's fiscal year ends on the 31st of December. I don't know about Coxon though, if that's separate.

 

[USC-fan]

Saying a console can be more efficient than a similarly-specced PC is ok. Saying that a console GPU has 2x the flops of a similar PC GPU is plain old BS - you're helping no-one.

And you don't have to quote Carmack or his cat on that - if you have elementary understanding of what Carmack was referring to you could've said it in absolutely understandable way. Like, for instance:

In contrast to desktop graphics APIs, consoles graphics APIs are very thin abstraction layers on top of their GPUs. This allows consoles to be faster in sending commands to their GPUs. The GPUs themselves are absolutely comparable, though: 1 PC GPU flop == 1 console GPU flop, and there's no way around this.

In a way it's comparable (exaggerated example follows) to you driving your car yourself, in one case, and you sitting in the passenger's seat of your car and instructing a professional driver to drive the car for you, in the other. At the end of the day it's the exact same car, and the difference is in the latency between you deciding what to do and the car obeying.

It not about just be faster for command, its being able to code to the metal. You don't have API in the way. I posted many quote from carmack about this.

Comparing an equal computer hardware to a console you get double the performance for many reasons. There is no debate.

When it comes to talking about the nextbox and WiiU leaks/specs etc, all the best rules apply to the Xbox, then with the WiiU, you can barely begrudge yourself to admit it'll play a Pacman arcade port on the eShop lol.

As for all this 'we've already seen what the next gen CAN do', that doesn't include all 5 seconds of 1313 running off the $2000+ PC hardware and UE4 & Square's tech demos... does it? Let's see Samaritan in game graphics before we get ahead of ourselves.

To say your personal evaluations so far of the next consoles is massively bias would probably be the understatement of the century.

I haven't even been talking about x720. I been talking about ps4 since those leaks have been confirmed. Not sure what you mean by "best rules apply" if you mean comparing console parts to PC those also apply to wiiu and never said they didn't.

I sure didn't say anything about pa man arcade.

Those are next Gen engines and games. No debate there, or do you think these companies just built these engines for PC?

How I am biased? Sorry but I have no say with nintendo , not sue how talking about the specs of a console make me biased. If anything I'm pessimistic at most. But I have went into detail many times why I'm pessimistic on the wiiu power.

 

[wsippel]

Well, even if someone is 'verified' you're free not to believe them.

The devkit spec leak matches up with everything I had been told about the devkits.

Sure, but the leak is just vague summary of the feature set - many important details are missing, and it says nothing at all about system performance.

 

[cyberheater]

Has it been confirmed that WiiU contains the Higgs boson particle?

 

[darthdago]

@ Rösti

I know that you are very good in research and maybe you have already posted that...
then I'm sorry but maybe you or someone else can explain to me if that can be relevant for Wii U since it uses ARM and AMD or not?!?

AMD has announced founding of: Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA) Foundation

also ARM and some others are onboard.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Has it been confirmed that WiiU contains the Higgs boson particle?

Yes, only at 720p though.

 

[anchorman128]

Sure, but the leak is just vague summary of the feature set - many important details are missing, and it says nothing at all about system performance.

+1 There are cards in the GTX 5 series with the same feature set of a GTX 570 or 580, but it doesnt mean they are nearly as powerful.

People see the features and combine that with other second hand rumors we have heard about clock speeds and other speculation. Until we reach a date closer to launch im not so sure Nintendo even knows if these numbers are final yet. Except for maybe TDP and target temps.

 

[brainpann]

Has it been confirmed that WiiU contains the Higgs boson particle?

Nintendo being Nintendo, they just opted for the Boson and left out the Higgs.

 

[Nibel]

Has it been confirmed that WiiU contains the Higgs boson particle?

 

[bgassassin]

to save on costs, it comes with an actual brick instead.

XD Nice.

Particles are the new god rays.

I find this so funny about these new tech demos. They're practically overflowing with particles that are flying off of everything everywhere. It's like they just use them because they can and it makes things look flashy.

Yeah that's how I feel about it as well.

Agni's Philosophy looks like a random Final Fantasy cutscene fight and a game using it will have the screen cluttered with battle menus, numbers and character will appear off to the side somewhere and the screen will be so full of effects and lights and dragons and lesbians on motorcycles that all those particles become just noise.

The amount of belts and zippers a next gen Square game will have will be glorious!

Has it been confirmed that WiiU contains the Higgs boson particle?

That will be in the engine used for Metroid. Because of that, Anthony Higgs will not only look like a real person, but particles will randomly fly off of his body for no reason.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Isn't that sort of against the rules? If it wasn't surely someone else would have posted updated details by now?

Well, you're safe here as long as you don't say something like "my uncle works at Nintendo and the Wii-U is made from Dolomite" and then are proven completely wrong later. Giving information is perfectly valid, giving false information as fact while claiming a real reputable source, that's frowned upon.

Of course, those are the rules here on GAF. NDA rules are a different story...

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Has it been confirmed that WiiU contains the Higgs boson particle?

This made me lol way harder than it should have

 

[Dreamwriter]

Particles are the new god rays.

I find this so funny about these new tech demos. They're practically overflowing with particles that are flying off of everything everywhere. It's like they just use them because they can and it makes things look flashy.

Particles are important to show off to developers, because you can do TONS of awesome effects with particles, and the more particles you can use the more fancy things you can do with them. They are more than just 3D dots - any great looking fire effect or smoke or steam is done through particles, for example, and you can do awesome water effects with particles. And particles use less GPU power than anything else, because each one is so simple.

 

[Fourth Storm]

That will be in the engine used for Metroid. Because of that, Anthony Higgs will not only look like a real person, but particles will randomly fly off of his body for no reason.

Yes, but is there enough RAM to remember him after taking into account OS overhead?

(yeah, that was awful)

 

[MDX]

Nintendo being Nintendo, they just opted for the Boson and left out the Higgs.

 

[bgassassin]

Particles are important to show off to developers, because you can do TONS of awesome effects with particles, and the more particles you can use the more fancy things you can do with them. They are more than just 3D dots - any great looking fire effect or smoke or steam is done through particles, for example, and you can do awesome water effects with particles. And particles use less GPU power than anything else, because each one is so simple.

Forgot about their usage for things like that. I was too focused on all the pretty sparks.

Yes, but is there enough RAM to remember him after taking into account OS overhead?

(yeah, that was awful)

But it was bad enough to get a laugh out of me.

 

[EatChildren]

Sure, but the leak is just vague summary of the feature set - many important details are missing, and it says nothing at all about system performance.

Indeed.

 

[bgassassin]

Just passing along another neat little "coincidence" with the E6760 and how Wii U's GPU could have similarities to it.

While looking up wsippel's old compiler post in April for someone, I noticed this post from Azak.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=37234520#post37234520

Quite possible/probabl. I men it want long ago they announced MULTI right? Also, maybe they are using Green Hills RTOS' now and those might have some sort of requirement.

When I came across the GPGPU info on the E6760 about a week ago, I found this.

http://www.altsoftware.com/press-ne...gl-graphics-driver-architecture-embedded-syst

The first supported graphics processor will be the AMD Radeon E6760 GPU, integrated with the Green Hills INTEGRITY RTOS, and targeted for deployment in a next generation situational awareness avionics display system as part of a United States Department of Defense procurement.

 

[jkou]

Hello everyone, another newbie here! I've been lurking around for some time and finally after E3, I thought it would be a good idea to join. Fortunately, it did not take long to verify the account.. Just a huge thanks to all speculators/contributors in the WUSTs, its been a fun journey so far!

Now, onto some other stuff (sorry if complicated - non native English speaker) :
As far as GPU performance goes, I like the speculation going on around here but let's not forget its speculation based on leaked performance targets (WiiU) and comparisons with peak performance (current gen machines) or theoretical performance (next generation machines). After we've seen games running on the HW (not E3 demos or technical showcases) we should be able to find out how much the WiiU fares in comparison to its competitors. In any case, I'm certain that Nintendo will not throw hundreds of millions on producing HW to run real-time Pixar quality visuals, because from a game developers perspective the visuals are there to supplement the gameplay and not the other way around - so lets all keep our expectations in check (especially after the recent hype train crash). I trust them though on this, and hope that the experiences coming will make us forget about parity issues with competitors more so than with the Wii.

 

[D-e-f-]

Particles are important to show off to developers, because you can do TONS of awesome effects with particles, and the more particles you can use the more fancy things you can do with them. They are more than just 3D dots - any great looking fire effect or smoke or steam is done through particles, for example, and you can do awesome water effects with particles. And particles use less GPU power than anything else, because each one is so simple.

They make it look ridiculous though when they go all Twilight on you and throw sparkly fire particles all over the place all the time.

On the subject of water: I'm still waiting for Uncharted's "wet-clothes-after-contact-with-water" to become a standard.

 

[EatChildren]

On the subject of water: I'm still waiting for Uncharted's "wet-clothes-after-contact-with-water" to become a standard.

Don't you mean Twilight Princess?

 

[StevieP]

I realise that GHz isn't necessarily relevant, but are there any sub 2Ghz tri-core CPU's without SMT that could outclass a 3.2GHz tri-core Xenon with 2-way SMT? That's sort of what the rumours were looking at.

In some ways, a Pentium 4 Northwood clocked <2ghz outclasses a Xenon.

It not about just be faster for command, its being able to code to the metal. You don't have API in the way. I posted many quote from carmack about this.

What if the APIs are a lot thicker this gen due to a change in the underlying architecture+operating system? Sure it's still going to be less thick than a full blown Windows OS, but...

Comparing an equal computer hardware to a console you get double the performance for many reasons. There is no debate.

Yes there is, because that statement is completely and utterly wrong.

 

[D-e-f-]

Don't you mean Twilight Princess?

Wait what? TP did that, too? Or do you just mean the dripping water?

I'm putting the game in right now!!!

edit: HOLY MOLY! I never noticed that (or I just forgot since it's been 5,5 years lol) even Link's hair gets darker! (although it's a complete texture swap where Uncharted has gradation depending how far you go in but still wow!)

 

[lostinblue]

Don't you mean Twilight Princess?

Tomb Raider Legends also.

I'm sure the effect on uncharted is more complex than tinting and a few water drops falling out though.

 

[EatChildren]

Wait what? TP did that, too? Or do you just mean the dripping water?

I'm putting the game in right now!!!

If Link jumps into water in Twilight Princess his tunic will darken in colour to show he has soaked up water. His hood thing will hang lower, heavier from the water, and his clothing will drip. After a little while the water will evaporate.

EDIT: I see you noticed. One of the great things about Zelda has always been spotting the little details Nintendo adds. Like Link quickly snapping his head towards a flaming source if the embers crackle.

Uncharted's effect is better, but that's the benefit of Naughty Dog's technical wizardry and stronger hardware leading to a nicer looking shader.

 

[lostinblue]

edit: HOLY MOLY! I never noticed that (or I just forgot since it's been 5,5 years lol) even Link's hair gets darker! (although it's a complete texture swap where Uncharted has gradation depending how far you go in but still wow!)

It's not a texture swap, it's tinting applied to certain textures/surfaces.

The effect is the same as glowing red when hurt, except it lasts longer, instead of going for red goes for darker colors and doesn't apply to skin; it's also cheaper for the hardware to do it that way (than swapping textures).

 

[blu]

It not about just be faster for command, its being able to code to the metal. You don't have API in the way.

You always have an API in the way (it's been like this for generations now) and a shader compiler in the way. It's about how efficient those are, and on consoles they're much more efficient & lean. Well, aside from the compiler, which can be the exact same as the pc version (if the GPUs are the same, that is).

I posted many quote from carmack about this.

Good for you.

Comparing an equal computer hardware to a console you get double the performance for many reasons. There is no debate.

Is that so? How about, fixed target hardware and much faster GPU command-buffers turnaround (via much leaner APIs) account for all the performance advantage a console has over a pc?

Apropos, do you know what a draw call is?

 

[DrWong]

So somebody changed the thread title... ^^

 

[D-e-f-]

It's not a texture swap, it's tinting applied to certain textures/surfaces.

The effect is the same as glowing red when hurt, except it lasts longer, instead of going for red goes for darker colors and doesn't apply to skin; it's also cheaper for the hardware to do it that way (than swapping textures).

alright, now I know what to call it

EDIT: I see you noticed. One of the great things about Zelda has always been spotting the little details Nintendo adds. Like Link quickly snapping his head towards a flaming source if the embers crackle.

Uncharted's effect is better, but that's the benefit of Naughty Dog's technical wizardry and stronger hardware leading to a nicer looking shader.

Yea those little are always pretty nice in Nintendo games. I also noticed that the water blurs everything that's submerged which looks very neat!

 

[Earendil]

It increases performance as greater minds than mind say by 2x. So yes coding to the metal does increase performance. Of course if you place a 3.7 tflop gpu in a closed box you can do the same.

Before or after it catches fire?

 

[Nibel]

That thread title. XD

 

[metalslimer]

Haha like the new thread title.

 

[z0m3le]

So... just to point this out... 1.843 GFLOPs, even doubled, comparing to HD7970 favorably is sort of pointless for 2 reasons... HD7970GHz edition is 4.1TFLOPs, and HD9970 will be launching along side these consoles, with over 5TFLOPs of perfromance.

It's just pointless to compare PS4 to high end computers, and I hope some people stop before I go insane. PS4's GPU power will be equal to a 1.8GFLOPs gpu though it should handle code better, it won't meet favorably with an HD7970.

 

[TunaLover]

So Wii U has a flipper GPU inside confirmed?

 

[Aostia]

So somebody changed the thread title... ^^

can we create now another Wii U community thread about...I don't know: games and so on...?

 

[blu]

No fins?

 

[z0m3le]

can we create now another Wii U community thread about...I don't know: games and so on...?

I imagine so...

 

[D-e-f-]

So Wii U has a flipper GPU inside confirmed?

So, let's get real guys, how many Dolphins duct-taped together is this thing now?

 

[bgassassin]

Nice title change. XD

can we create now another Wii U community thread about...I don't know: games and so on...?

Games? I don't know what it is with you and HylianTom about these things called games.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

If Link jumps into water in Twilight Princess his tunic will darken in colour to show he has soaked up water. His hood thing will hang lower, heavier from the water, and his clothing will drip. After a little while the water will evaporate.

EDIT: I see you noticed. One of the great things about Zelda has always been spotting the little details Nintendo adds. Like Link quickly snapping his head towards a flaming source if the embers crackle.

Uncharted's effect is better, but that's the benefit of Naughty Dog's technical wizardry and stronger hardware leading to a nicer looking shader.

TP had a couple of neat things like that

Like how Link's feet are always touching the ground, even on stairs.

You'd be amazed how many 3D games get that wrong.

 

[Nibel]

So, let's get real guys, how many Dolphins duct-taped together is this thing now?

Dolphin emulator > Wii U

I know twice as much about tech as BG

 

[blu]

Games? I don't know what it is with you and HylianTom about these things called games.

We visit message boards to argue about consoles we don't play.
Yes/No

 

[Aostia]

Nice title change. XD



Games? I don't know what it is with you and HylianTom about these things called games.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

 

[D-e-f-]

Dolphin emulator > Wii U

I'm talking about dolphins!

 

[bgassassin]

TP had a couple of neat things like that

Like how Link's feet are always touching the ground, even on stairs.

You'd be amazed how many 3D games get that wrong.

This is both funny and sad at the same time.

Dolphin emulator > Wii U

I know twice as much about tech as BG

We visit message boards to argue about consoles we don't play.
Yes/No

Play? Not familiar with that either so the answer is no. We visit message boards to argue which console has the most Jigga Whats.

 

[D-e-f-]

We visit message boards to argue which console has the most Jigga Whats.

Jigga Who?

 

[lostinblue]

TP had a couple of neat things like that

Like how Link's feet are always touching the ground, even on stairs.

You'd be amazed how many 3D games get that wrong.

Skeletal Animation, yes.

It was more impressive on the wolf.


They actually added skeletal animation on OoT remake, albeit not as polished, because of the way the game is designed no doubt. It's really flickery at points (in certain frontier-like positions won't stop changing position whilst trying to find the right one).

 

[Nibel]

Skeletal Animation, yes.

It was more impressive on the wolf.


They actually added skeletal animation on OoT remake, albeit not as polished, because of the way the game is designed no doubt. It's really flickery at points (in certain frontier-like positions won't stop changing position whilst trying to find the right one).

I just love Zelda games. Nintendo is crazy when it comes to details like this.