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[Thunder Monkey]

Oh hey.

I'm also finally joining the HD era. Or at least HD console era.

Should be playing 360 in HD within a week.

Been playing it on an S-Video capable TV that's lasted for 12 years.

 

[DynamicG]

I wonder what your response be if one of the big 3 decided to go with n64 quality hardware at $399 each.

"Hardware means nothing! Go build a PC if you care about tech!"

It's not that hardware means nothing, but it's also not everything. There are points inbetween the extreme perspectives, and that seems to be where things usually lie. I know nuance is not the strong suit of neogaf, so I understand.

But yeah, I guess I would buy it at a price point that was reasonable. Your $399 is a little too extreme even to make the simple point you were trying to make. The DS produces less than N64 level graphics and I paid less than half of your quoted price and was quite satisfied. Wii produces GCN level graphics (I know it did more, but I'm making it sound worse to work here) and I paid $250 for that.

Oh yeah, and I built a gaming PC too!

Oh hey.

I'm also finally joining the HD era. Or at least HD console era.

Should be playing 360 in HD within a week.

Been playing it on an S-Video capable TV that's lasted for 12 years.

How did you live? Do the figs help calm you after all those years of having to bear with sub-HD graphix? Do they at least help with the lack of flops?

 

[Glorified G]

It's not that hardware means nothing, but it's also not everything. There are points inbetween the extreme perspectives, and that seems to be where things usually lie. I know nuance is not the strong suit of neogaf, so I understand.

But yeah, I guess I would buy it at a price point that was reasonable. Your $399 is a little too extreme even to make the simple point you were trying to make. The DS produces less than N64 level graphics and I paid less than half of your quoted price and was quite satisfied. Wii produces GCN level graphics and I paid $250 for that.

Oh yeah, and I built a gaming PC too!

I don't disagree with this at all. But this was the post I was responding too.

As for me, the most important aspect about a console is the games not the hardware. Hardware means nothing to me and should mean nothing to any gamers in this world. If you want that bad to discuss about hardware, go make a PC gaming where the technology will always evolve.

 

[jerd]

Oh hey.

I'm also finally joining the HD era. Or at least HD console era.

Should be playing 360 in HD within a week.

Been playing it on an S-Video capable TV that's lasted for 12 years.

Same here! I'm selling plasma to afford it

I plan on getting it the same night I get the Wii U to maximize my tech happiness.

My current tv is 28" and weighs no less than 100lbs

 

[DynamicG]

I don't disagree with this at all. But this was the post I was responding too.

I know who you were responding to. I read the exchange. You know his statement was hyperbolic and outlandish and yet you responded with a statement just as uninformed.

This thread can be so tiring to read with people wobbling back and forth between extremes. It's kinda like Poligaf in many ways.

 

[HylianTom]

This thread can be so tiring to read with people wobbling back and forth between extremes. It's kinda like Poligaf in many ways.

Indeed, I've made the politics comparison several times.

I find it even more humorous when haters and fanboys are hesitant to publicly acknowledge their stances, as though we can't tell, haha..

 

[Glorified G]

I know who you were responding to. I read the exchange. You know his statement was hyperbolic and outlandish and yet you responded with a statement just as uninformed.

This thread can be so tiring to read with people wobbling back and forth between extremes. It's kinda like Poligaf in many ways.

Duh, That was the point. To show how hyperbolic his statement was in the first place.

This thread & the Poligaf would be a lot easier for you to follow if you understood the context of what you were reading.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Then what's the complaint? It's still based on a POWER7 in one form or another. There is no "true" version of it.

There is a "true" version of POWER7 used in servers. It's 8 cores, with 4-way SMT, and 32 MB L3 cache. It's a 64 bit processor with 4 dual-channel DDR3 controllers. The WiiU CPU looks to have not one of these things in common. I'm in the camp with wsippel and company who think it will be a modified 476fp core which also includes elements from a variety of other IBM designs (Broadway, Cell, A2). It's pretty intriguing, but it's obviously being designed with power consumption as a priority over performance.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Flatly, if nintendo was still making SNES units, and all new Mario and Zelda games were on the SNES, I'd be buying mario and zelda games for the SNES.

Same goes for NES, N64, Gamecube, and Wii.

I like those games.

Am I excited for new hardware to play those games on - yes. Would I rather have a personal one console future - yes. Do I think 3rd parties will co-operate with my intentions - no.

I'm buying a Wii U for the next generation, and I will buy a competing console (or a PC) when there's a 3rd party game that I just can't live without.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Flatly, if nintendo was still making SNES units, and all new Mario and Zelda games were on the SNES, I'd be buying mario and zelda games for the SNES.

Same goes for NES, N64, Gamecube, and Wii.

I like those games.

Am I excited for new hardware to play those games on - yes. Would I rather have a personal one console future - yes. Do I think 3rd parties will co-operate with my intentions - no.

I'm buying a Wii U for the next generation, and I will buy a competing console (or a PC) when there's a 3rd party game that I just can't live without.

Because you're not a twat.

Just twatlike.

 

[DynamicG]

Duh, That was the point. To show how hyperbolic his statement was in the first place.

This thread & the Poligaf would be a lot easier for you to follow if you understood the context of what you were reading.

Ah yes, the old expose a hyperbolic statement by making a hyperbolic statement. I recall that from my youth. Thanks bud.

Is there a guide you can recommend for me to understand all this whacky hardware stuff?

Flatly, if nintendo was still making SNES units, and all new Mario and Zelda games were on the SNES, I'd be buying mario and zelda games for the SNES.

Same goes for NES, N64, Gamecube, and Wii.

I like those games.

Am I excited for new hardware to play those games on - yes. Would I rather have a personal one console future - yes. Do I think 3rd parties will co-operate with my intentions - no.

I'm buying a Wii U for the next generation, and I will buy a competing console (or a PC) when there's a 3rd party game that I just can't live without.

Whoa now. This type of thinking in this thread makes you quite the rebel.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

He'd be exposed as a troll if we were only talking about games, or he wouldn't even come in here. When discussing things like hypothetical CPU power, he can just drop a "Well that settles that. Just lol @ this. Pathetic. Slower CPU than hardware that released 7 years ago" and watch it all burn around him.

I kind of appreciate that he confessed to heading straight over here when he heard that news though. At least Heavy is honest about being that uncle that enjoys making vague news sound as negative as possible.

Advanced hardware greatly helps facilitate good software, in my eyes. Plenty of evidence this gen.

 

[lostinblue]

From the spec sheet the 476fp can run at up to 2.0ghz but more than 1.2watts per core compared to running at 1.6ghz but at 2.71 DMIPS per mhz it is a pretty efficient processor. The gamecube and wii cpu is 2.31 DMIPS per mhz on a single core. Something based on this architecture is something nintendo would go for.

Oh, I doubt they're going with a 32 bit solution in 2012, and saying a PPC 4xx is based on Power7 would be like intel saying the Atom is based on I7 (when it's based on the original Pentium/586).

The ARM Cortex A15 for reference runs at 20,000DMIPS at 4 cores and at a speed of a miserly 2.0ghz, this chip incidentally beats the xbox 360 gpu at 3.2ghz

you meant cpu, right? Anyway not hard to do in dhrystones.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Been gone awhile with real life stuff and trying to catch up on my gaming backlog, did the thread title change? And any notable news in the last week?

 

[JordanN]

There is a "true" version of POWER7 used in servers. It's 8 cores, with 4-way SMT, and 32 MB L3 cache. It's a 64 bit processor with 4 dual-channel DDR3 controllers. The WiiU CPU looks to have not one of these things in common. I'm in the camp with wsippel and company who think it will be a modified 476fp core which also includes elements from a variety of other IBM designs (Broadway, Cell, A2). It's pretty intriguing, but it's obviously being designed with power consumption as a priority over performance.

Wii U offers the same large level 3 cache found in the POWER7 line and processing technology as Watson (another POWER7).

Anyways, this is getting wack. IBM called it. You can disagree on its definition (i.e opinion) but facts are fact.

 

[DynamicG]

Advanced hardware greatly helps facilitate good software, in my eyes. Plenty of evidence this gen.

To some degree yes, but it is not a completely linear relationship. Some great games from this gen were not possible on GCN era hardware, hence why we didn't see Wii versions.

There are also plenty of counter examples from this gen where the advanced hardware was a hindrance in some cases and in others didn't really add anything. It's more complex than advanced hardware = better games. But if you want believe that, then it's totally fine, we have that freedom.

Indeed, I've made the politics comparison several times.

I find it even more humorous when haters and fanboys are hesitant to publicly acknowledge their stances, as though we can't tell, haha..

I don't understand the need to appear impartial either. What does it matter if you admit that you prefer one hardware manufacturer over the other?

 

[Meelow]

Been gone awhile with real life stuff and trying to catch up on my gaming backlog, did the thread title change? And any notable news in the last week?

Tekken Producer said the Wii U CPU is slightly slower than the PS3/360 CPU and a lot of people are taking it that the Wii U CPU sucks even though that's not what it means.

 

[lostinblue]

There is a "true" version of POWER7 used in servers. It's 8 cores, with 4-way SMT, and 32 MB L3 cache. It's a 64 bit processor with 4 dual-channel DDR3 controllers. The WiiU CPU looks to have not one of these things in common. I'm in the camp with wsippel and company who think it will be a modified 476fp core which also includes elements from a variety of other IBM designs (Broadway, Cell, A2). It's pretty intriguing, but it's obviously being designed with power consumption as a priority over performance.

It's mass produced in 4, 6 and 8 core configurations. I'd call all of those "true"

By "true" we mean with a base feature set that the original cpu's have. That is VSX, 12 execution units per core and 4-way smt. I'd even call a dual core processor version of it true if the feature set was intact to be honest (probably not single core as it's designed for multicore though).

As for 476FP, I need more data about it, but as said, I doubt it: 32-bit architecture being the kicker. Can't see Nintendo going for that.


PowerPC A2 is much more likely, it has a 4x1.4 GHz version @ 20 W and at least has the same Power ISA version as a Power7.

 

[Meelow]

This is off topic but this site says E3 2013 is June 11-13, does anyone know if that is correct?.

E3 2013 — June 11-13, Los Angeles Convention Center

 

[Pittree]

As far as specs go Gamecube CPU speed was 486 Mhz vs 733 Mhz of the original Xbox and 299 Mhz of the PS2 latest models. That is roughly 60% faster in clock speed for Xbox against GC and something along 140% for PS2.
This clock difference while substantial didn't make for a general situation where ports where impossible or games in general lagging one generation behind for the slower consoles. What we are talking now is about a difference of a "little bit" so it obviously couldn't make much difference.
Now for the argument of "in the past generation what made the difference was not Mhz, but architecture". That is my point. Wii U while a "little" bit slower than 360 is likely going to be better on CPU general terms and comparable on functions with their counterparts. The difference on Mhz against current and next gen, could be pretty much neglible

 

[bgassassin]

It's mass produced in 4, 6 and 8 core configurations. I'd call all of those "true"

By "true" we mean with a base feature set that the original cpu's have. That is VSX, 12 execution units per core and 4-way smt. I'd even call a dual core processor version of it true if the feature set was intact to be honest (probably not single core as it's designed for multicore though).

As for 476FP, I need more data about it, but as said, I doubt it: 32-bit architecture being the kicker. Can't see Nintendo going for that.


PowerPC A2 is much more likely, it has a 4x1.4 GHz version @ 20 W and at least has the same Power ISA version as a Power7.

From what I remember POWER7 is only made with eight cores. The 4 and 6-core versions are just the 8-core with disabled cores.

A2 is in-order.


So now we have an anonymous dev and a public dev both talking about the CPU having a "low" clock.

 

[lostinblue]

From what I remember POWER7 is only made with eight cores. The 4 and 6-core versions are just the 8-core with disabled cores.

Ah, I see. I'll take your word for it.

I gotta say, I was out of the reading tech data for cpu's for too long (years). Not much changed, but damn am I making mistakes today, I started with the notion that Power PC G5/970 was a Power5 cpu (it's a power4) and called a gamecube cpu the equivalent of a G4 cpu, when it's a G3. Makes me kinda mad, because my spider-sense actually was tingling in both occasions but I was too busy writing to check. (checked later though)

As for the reason I'm writing so much... exams. I really don't want to study.

A2 is in-order

Could be somewhat based on it still; seems the kind of CPU IBM might market as Power7 derivate (might be, actually)

Certainly more likely than being a tri-core 32 bit PPC 4xx.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

So now we have an anonymous dev and a public dev both talking about the CPU having a "low" clock.

What's your take on it?

 

[ASIS]

No one using useless multipliers I can say that much.

I will never, ever, understand those multipliers.

What's not to understand?

720= 6x 360

Wii U= 2x PS360

My refrigerator= 3x My microwave, but only when the ice maker is turned off. That hurts performance.

It's human nature to want to quantify things, even when it is impossible to do so. Unfortunately, multipliers seem to be all people care about. Silly.

Again, not all of us here know about specs. The multipliers are inaccurate, yes we know that, but it is the easiest way to estimate the power of consoles in relation to each other. It is FAR more complex than that, I've been asking questions here about what everything means and what is the conclusion of every piece of information coming out, but that is just no enough. Since I am not an enthusiast about specs and I'm not studying it, there's just no way for me to know exactly what they mean. So yes, I do rely on these multipliers as rough, inaccurate estimates about what to expect in terms of performance. If you know more, good for you, but I don't.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Wii U offers the same large level 3 cache found in the POWER7 line and processing technology as Watson (another POWER7).

Anyways, this is getting wack. IBM called it. You can disagree on its definition (i.e opinion) but facts are fact.

It's only wack to those who get all riled up over the subject. I'd double check your facts. Nowhere has it been coonfirmed that WiiU's CPU has l3 cache. All info points to 3 MB edram being used as l2.

 

[donny2112]

Been playing it on an S-Video capable TV that's lasted for 12 years.

:'(

Always sad to see a long-lasting TV go. My main one is 10 years old with S-Video.

 

[Sadist]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=481954

From the gamingside, Little Inferno. Devs are the Hatsworth/World of Goo guys

 

[Agent Unknown]

Farming Simulator 2013 is coming to Wii U.

Buh?

Tekken Producer said the Wii U CPU is slightly slower than the PS3/360 CPU and a lot of people are taking it that the Wii U CPU sucks even though that's not what it means.

That's too bad. I'm not worried either but it seems like a dumb comment to make if he wants core Tekken fans to be excited for the game.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

:'(

Always sad to see a long-lasting TV go. My main one is 10 years old with S-Video.

It has just become a clusterfuck lately. A/V receiver fell into the TV, literally into the TV, as I was plugging in the Wii, and now you have to keep the S-video connection in a specific direction or you lose color.

Which, it was cool playing the Arkham Asylum demo in black and white, but enough was enough and I splurged.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Aren't the Tekken team supposed to be working on SSB U as well - or will be at least. They should learn a lot about developing on the WiiU on that project especially alongside Nintendo, but that's probably all too late for Tekken.

 

[BlackJace]

Low clock speed doesn't dictate power right?

I'm not the most tech-savvy person, so I wouldn't know.

 

[Meelow]

Low clock speed doesn't dictate power right?

I'm not the most tech-savvy person, so I wouldn't know.

Nope.

 

[JordanN]

Low clock speed doesn't dictate power right?

I'm not the most tech-savvy person, so I wouldn't know.

Clockspeed can only be used as a measurement when comparing CPU's of the same architecture.

It does not work for CPU's that are different.

 

[BlackJace]

Nope.

Clockspeed can only be used as a measurement of power when comparing CPU's of the same architecture.

It does not work for CPU's that are different.

Ah, I saw it on the scroll this morning when I was watching something on MTV (for shame, I know). I thought it was really bad news, but I guess not.

 

[schuelma]

I will not vouch for whether this is legit, but hey its a speculation thread right? Go Nintendo has a link to a supposed list from Game Stop Italy showing some Wii U titles. The only real notable new entries are Warriors Orochi 3 and PES13.

 

[Pittree]

Low clock speed doesn't dictate power right?

I'm not the most tech-savvy person, so I wouldn't know.

Clock Speed is like Horse Power in a car. You can make a fast car trough tons of HP, but it can also be done with less HP and more fine tuning. If history is worth something Nintendo usally aims for a fine tuned vs a muscle car of their competitors. However it is worth mentioning that both haver their downsides.

 

[radio_apeshot]

Oh hey.

I'm also finally joining the HD era. Or at least HD console era.

Should be playing 360 in HD within a week.

Been playing it on an S-Video capable TV that's lasted for 12 years.

Same here! I'm selling plasma to afford it

I plan on getting it the same night I get the Wii U to maximize my tech happiness.

My current tv is 28" and weighs no less than 100lbs

I think Nintendo will greatly benefit from joining the HD race until now. Here where I live not everyone had an HD tv with PS360 but now everyone is getting an HD tv in 2012.. I see more people getting Tv's when I go to Walmart or something than what I noticed last year.

Nintendo should really market and take advantage of the Wii U finally being HD, even if it soulds silly to us who have played in HD for many years already.

 

[Redford]

Ooo, sparks.

 

[DrLyme]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=481954

From the gamingside, Little Inferno. Devs are the Hatsworth/World of Goo guys

This made my day. World of Goo was one of the best WiiWare games out there, and I've been waiting for these guys to do something new.

Also, I'm yet another new person!

 

[Captain Smoker]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=481954

From the gamingside, Little Inferno. Devs are the Hatsworth/World of Goo guys

*Updating the "less known Wii U games" - list*



eShop:
+ Little Inferno (World of Goo devs)
- Mighty Switch Force HD (at launch)
- Shantae Wii U
- New game by Shin'en
- Cloudberry Kingdom

Retail:
- Madden 13
- Project CARS
- NBA 2K13
- Smash Bros. Wii U (w/ Bandai Namco)
- Monolith Game for Wii U

Rumour:
+ Pro Evolution Soccer 13 (...eventually)
- Dead or Alive 5 (Rumour)
- Black Ops 2 (Rumour)


AAA-list:
- Farming Simulator 2013

 

[MadeInBeats]

Low clock speed doesn't dictate power right?

I'm not the most tech-savvy person, so I wouldn't know.

Nope.

Clockspeed can only be used as a measurement when comparing CPU's of the same architecture.

It does not work for CPU's that are different.

Clock Speed is like Horse Power in a car. You can make a fast car trough tons of HP, but it can also be done with less HP and more fine tuning. If history is worth something Nintendo usally aims for a fine tuned vs a muscle car of their competitors. However it is worth mentioning that both haver their downsides.

Which is all well and good, but the guy felt the need to mention the CPU in a negative way, seemingly so, at least. Why not just say something like, the CPU is new and different so we need to work to make our code work with it. Why just imply there's an issue with a low clocked CPU?

That's what isn't adding up for me. But there isn't much to go on and the guy is only a director, not a programmer, and who knows in what context the question was asked or answered and translated.

 

[Captain Smoker]

The list is missing the secret killer app, Farming Simulator 2013.

Updated the post with a new section.

 

[bgassassin]

Ah, I see. I'll take your word for it.

I gotta say, I was out of the reading tech data for cpu's for too long (years). Not much changed, but damn am I making mistakes today, I started with the notion that Power PC G5/970 was a Power5 cpu (it's a power4) and called a gamecube cpu the equivalent of a G4 cpu, when it's a G3. Makes me kinda mad, because my spider-sense actually was tingling in both occasions but I was too busy writing to check. (checked later though)

As for the reason I'm writing so much... exams. I really don't want to study.

Been there before. I was screwing up with GC's memory back in the first thread one day when I know it like the back of my hand.

Could be somewhat based on it still; seems the kind of CPU IBM might market as Power7 derivate (might be, actually)

Certainly more likely than being a tri-core 32 bit PPC 4xx.

I felt the only influence from an A2 would be the usage of eDRAM as L2 cache.

What's your take on it?

Nintendo being Nintendo. It's always for better or worse and in this case it's pointing to the latter.

It's not surprising since we've had indications the CPU was the problem since Arkam's posts back in Jan. or Feb. pointed in that direction. But doing it for no other (possible) reasons than keeping power consumption as low as possible and to have the console quiet as possible is asinine. I'm not saying they should push it to the point where it can cause a high failure rate, but Nintendo has a bad habit of overdoing it with stuff like this and it's ugly head is rearing again. Hopefully they will back off of that some before launch since clocks can still be changed at this point at least.

Which is all well and good, but the guy felt the need to mention the CPU in a negative way, seemingly so, at least. Why not just say something like, the CPU is new and different so we need to work to make our code work with it. Why just imply there's an issue with a low clocked CPU?

That's what isn't adding up for me. But there isn't much to go on and the guy is only a director, not a programmer, and who knows in what context the question was asked or answered and translated.

If it makes Nintendo blink and up the clock I support it. The CPU as a problem has been pointed to for too long and like I mentioned this is likely Nintendo unnecessarily doing it for some perceived need.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Ah, I saw it on the scroll this morning when I was watching something on MTV (for shame, I know). I thought it was really bad news, but I guess not.

On a somewhat unrelated note, it's been about nine years since I watched MTV, that channel has been a joke for over 14 years and is one of the main reasons I no longer bother to get cable or satellite. MTV2 was an awesome music source for its first two years then they gutted that too. Oh yeah and they cancelled Sifl and Olly which was a crime against humanity and still won't let Liam Lynch release seasons and two on DVD. Worst channel on cable and a stinking, festering piece of excrement that stands for everything loathsomely fake and unlikeable about pop culture. Not even their airing of the Wii U E3 presentation was enough to get me to break my boycott. Rant over.

 

[Meelow]

Remember that comment yesterday from Katsuhiro Harada stating "it would be distracting that the Gamepad plays a big role with fighting games" well apparently he never said that, he said "difficult for fighting games" he's mad at Gamespot for changing his words, makes you wonder if the CPU comment is wrong too.

“Looking at the small screen [Wii U GamePad] and the big [TV] screen at the same time is pretty difficult for a fighting game. So we’re thinking of making it useful as a way of having shortcuts.”

“Or, by making progressing through the game more convenient. Or by playing alone on the GamePad screen.”

https://twitter.com/Harada_TEKKEN/status/222703388025032704

Also he said

https://twitter.com/Harada_TEKKEN/status/222711445886996480

"WiiU gets 'trolled' too much as it is. I like Namco on Nintendo platforms"

 

[AzaK]

I think Nintendo is again looking for affordability first and foremost.

For the consumers and for themselves. Nintendo doesn't want to take a loss on hardware. I can appreciate them wanting to "play it safe" as far as their business model goes. It's refreshingly non-suicidal!

I still think that Nintendo could avoid a loss on hardware and build something gruntier. Sell us a $350 or $400 console with less profit up front. But we also really know that Nintendo likes mainstream price points for as much adoption as possible.

Nintendo being Nintendo. It's always for better or worse and in this case it's pointing to the latter.

It's not surprising since we've had indications the CPU was the problem since Arkam's posts back in Jan. or Feb. pointed in that direction. But doing it for no other (possible) reasons than keeping power consumption as low as possible and to have the console quiet as possible is asinine. I'm not saying they should push it to the point where it can cause a high failure rate, but Nintendo has a bad habit of overdoing it with stuff like this and it's ugly head is rearing again. Hopefully they will back off of that some before launch since clocks can still be changed at this point at least.

Can they be changed though? The machines will already be in manufacturing.

If it makes Nintendo blink and up the clock I support it. The CPU as a problem has been pointed to for too long and like I mentioned this is likely Nintendo unnecessarily doing it for some perceived need.

Is this just a case of going overboard for the Japanese market who prefer small devices? I too think its stupid to go too overboard like they seem to be. Especially when it's creating issues with developers when port issues are one of the things that Nintendo has to really try and avoid.

 

[MadeInBeats]

If it makes Nintendo blink and up the clock I support it. The CPU as a problem has been pointed to for too long and like I mentioned this is likely Nintendo unnecessarily doing it for some perceived need.

So all this OoOE, efficiency, modern talk makes no difference? Jesus, how low have they clocked it exactly if a PS360 fighting game is struggling? There's no way it's going to make it through a generation if that's the case.

But then again, my thought is how can that be the case when games like ME3, Arkam City, ACIII etc, must all need much more processing power than Tekken? Those devs must be having some real headaches if so.

There's just so much that doesn't add up... so much doesn't add up... ummm, shit, I jst realised this is Nintendo we're talking about !

 

[bgassassin]

Can they be changed though? The machines will already be in manufacturing.

Is this just a case of going overboard for the Japanese market who prefer small devices? I too think its stupid to go too overboard like they seem to be. Especially when it's creating issues with developers when port issues are one of the things that Nintendo has to really try and avoid.

Looking back Nintendo launched GC in Sept. and announced they changed the clocks in May. So if we're looking at a Nov. or so release, now is the time they would likely do it.

 

[lostinblue]

I still think that Nintendo could avoid a loss on hardware and build something gruntier. Sell us a $350 or $400 console with less profit up front. But we also really know that Nintendo likes mainstream price points for as much adoption as possible.

They certainly could, but bare in mind they're probably the only one's designing the console from the ground up to be power efficient and stuck in a tiny box/form factor.

Low clock on the CPU is probably happening because of that. GPU could also probably be clocked higher if power rating and heat dissipation weren't so much of an issue.

 

[StevieP]

Been there before. I was screwing up with GC's memory back in the first thread one day when I know it like the back of my hand.



I felt the only influence from an A2 would be the usage of eDRAM as L2 cache.




Nintendo being Nintendo. It's always for better or worse and in this case it's pointing to the latter.

It's not surprising since we've had indications the CPU was the problem since Arkam's posts back in Jan. or Feb. pointed in that direction. But doing it for no other (possible) reasons than keeping power consumption as low as possible and to have the console quiet as possible is asinine. I'm not saying they should push it to the point where it can cause a high failure rate, but Nintendo has a bad habit of overdoing it with stuff like this and it's ugly head is rearing again. Hopefully they will back off of that some before launch since clocks can still be changed at this point at least.



If it makes Nintendo blink and up the clock I support it. The CPU as a problem has been pointed to for too long and like I mentioned this is likely Nintendo unnecessarily doing it for some perceived need.

I wouldn't necessarily say its "Nintendo being Nintendo" (stingy with clocks) if they've decided to go with an architecture like the 47x series. I don't think there are any historical examples of those bad boys going higher than 2ghz (or even 1.6 really) and running straight code from Xenon isn't going to produce any ground-breaking results. Of note: in the 60 or so watts the box is going to be pushing, most of it is going to be the gpu. Most of ibm's embedded solutions like the aforementioned 47x's eat up <2w per core.