Support NeoGAF

[ArynCrinn]

Everybody think about how many years they've been gaming. For sixteen of those years Nintendo has been playing second fiddle to other consoles when it comes to third party support. 16 years.

It's not going to change any time soon.

I think people hope it changes, when it comes to policy and sales issues, and rightfully so. But unless Nintendo were to empower a competent and strong NoA and NoE, and be willing to pay money, play the aggressive PR game, and maybe be willing to take a slight loss, nothing will change, period.

Third parties are far too invested in their own corner of the market, which doesn't include Nintendo, nor does Nintendo proactively attempt to change that. And to be quite honest I can easily see a valid case to be made by many third-parties to calculate they make more than enough money on Xbox3, Ps4 and GFWL, Steam or Origin to not need to justify a WiiU release. And I think taking into account the calculator would probably support that sentiment shows that it's primarily Nintendo that will need to do the majority of the leg work to gain more third-party support, fair or not.

Realistically, I'm of the mind that in the interim considering where we stand now it's projects like P-100 that will yield the best results from third parties. Publishing partnerships, marketing and maybe even development support would do wonders for at least gaining traction for non-Nintendo IP. But then again Nintendo didn't even highlight P-100 at E3, which goes to show they still have their heads up the wrong horse's ass, they are slowing losing sight of what wide consumer appeal means and are confusing it with something else.

 

[EDarkness]

The audience and it's attentiveness to 3rd or 1st party titles is developed in the first year of the system. If 3rd parties only drop test games or half ass games, and no quality in that first year, while Nintendo releases they're usual high quality titles, then you'll have the same results as the Wii. It's not Nintendo's fault that 3rd parties had a hard time on the Wii, it's their own. The general public learned really quickly on the Wii not to trust 3rd parties because of shitty cash ins.

It's like anything else you can't build a market base, or a fan base on test games, and b/c teams. It doesn't work that way. You would think people who do this shit for a living would understand this.

Release quality AAA games from the start and the market base to buy them will be there from the start. Don't do that, and good luck building it up 2 years later. You have to be there as the foundation is being set.

I totally agree with this. I know lots of people who were burned by crappy Wii 3rd party games. I tell my developer friends this all the time. However, a couple of them always tell me that they have no say in the quality of Wii games. People who get paid more money make those decisions, but it's obvious they don't understand the consumer's perspective. I would have loved to have Peter Moore explain to the guy who got Madden '08 for the Wii for his birthday only to find out it was worse than the previous year. The guy was so pissed off. We didn't know what to say other than to give him store credit for returning it. I was working at GameStop at the time.

 

[Disco Sam]

16 years was the N64 onwards, SNES was released over 20 years ago now!

 

[ASIS]

I hope those 16 years don't include the NES, SNES, GB, GBA, and DS.

it's from N64 to Wii, he's talking about home consoles only.

 

[Karsticles]

Everybody think about how many years they've been gaming. For sixteen of those years Nintendo has been playing second fiddle to other consoles when it comes to third party support. 16 years.

It's not going to change any time soon.

I'm inclined to agree, but it depends on how Sony handles the next generation. If Sony continues to falter, it makes sense for most Japanese third party companies to go to Nintendo over Microsoft. Yeah, western developers will always stick to Microsoft - that's a given.

Edit: Plus, Nintendo did get some of the best third party games this last generation. I put almost 500 hours into Monster Hunter Tri.

 

[Meelow]

Nintendo did say they are prepared to invest to make sure the Wii U gets third party support

"We think it very important to make several hits from the third-party software publishers within the first year from the release of the platform, while offering Nintendo software seamlessly," Satoru Iwata said at a recent shareholder meeting.



"In order to achieve this goal, we have shared information about the new hardware with the software publishers earlier than we did previously and built a cooperative structure, and we are developing several titles in collaboration with these publishers," he continued. "I cannot talk in detail about the names of the titles, or with which publishers we are currently collaborating, because we have not announced this information yet, but what we are aiming for with the Nintendo 3DS and the Wii U is, platforms which have much more software and a wider variety of software than the former Nintendo DS or Wii."



"Therefore, we are thinking of creating an environment where software from other companies will become hits. Please understand that Nintendo is prepared to invest in order to make this a reality."

I might just be hoping for too much but I feel Nintendo can get third party support on Wii U right.

 

[DjRoomba]

It's rather simple: it started in the N64 era, but it wasn't until the Gamecube years it became more common for multiplatform releases to skip Nintendo platforms. Or when they did release a game, there was something wrong with it. That was Nintendo's fault as well because of the limited space available on the mini-dvd's, but they saw that third parties didn't release as much games for Nintendo's consoles compared to the other two. Then we have the Wii-age, where the big blockbusters skipped the console and more importantly, the games that were released on Wii missed features which were becoming the standard of every release on the other two: online play and achievements.

On Wii U, talk about online play is pretty scarce and we still don't know if the Wii U has an achievement system. It's all very vague and nobody knows anything for sure. So why go for the uncertainty of the Wii U version if you could go out and buy the PS3/360 version: it has all of the standard stuff in a modern game release.

If Nintendo wants consumers to buy Wii U versions of third party software, they need to convince them right from the start. That won't be easy. Perception regarding third party software on Nintendo hardware didn't exactly change for the last couple of years.

Nintendo's own software made such a name for itself... it's pretty amazing if you think about it.

Are you kidding me with achievement stuff, cool Miyamoto? I think of all things, noones blaming Nintendo for not having that nonsense. And I think they've now been pretty clear about their Online.

 

[donny2112]

I hope those 16 years don't include the NES, SNES, GB, GBA, and DS.

Consoles != Handhelds

1996-2012 = 16 years

In other words if your main bread and butter is third-party games, and you've been gaming for 15 years or less, your main console has likely never been a Nintendo system coming into this next generation.

I feel Nintendo can get third party support on Wii U right.

They'll get it better. "How much better?" is the question.

 

[ASIS]

Nintendo did say they are prepared to invest to make sure the Wii U gets third party support



I might just be hoping for too much but I feel Nintendo can get third party support on Wii U right.

Nintendo hoping to have more variety on the 3DS than the DS? WOW. I can understand the Wii but the DS has the absolute best library of any handheld to date and one of the best libraries... ever! I'm not sure how on earth they are going to achieve this.

 

[AzaK]

Everybody think about how many years they've been gaming. For sixteen of those years Nintendo has been playing second fiddle to other consoles when it comes to third party support. 16 years.

It's not going to change any time soon.

Or you could look at it like it's going to change sooner that it would have last gen.

 

[Pittree]

Nintendo did say they are prepared to invest to make sure the Wii U gets third party support



I might just be hoping for too much but I feel Nintendo can get third party support on Wii U right.

What Mr. Iwata said will be extremely important for the destiny of the console. If the first year of advantage they have against their competitors is lost in quick ports, poor support, bad exclusives, low third party sales and incomplete infrastructure then It would be wasted because when the others arrive, developers wont have much reason to invest their time and money on versions of 720/ps4 for Wii U. So here is hoping Nintendo is serious about investing on it (even in their own way). We need to see first and third party games fully realized on the console before the new guys arrive, games that take advantage of graphics technology, unique functions and infraestructure with good budget behind on production and marketing.

Now if a exclusive, good mainstreamed concept with nice production values and marketing does not sell ok...then Wii U would be in trouble. So lets try to do our part when te time arrives.

 

[AzaK]

What Mr. Iwata said will be extremely important for the destiny of the console. If the first year of advantage they have against their competitors is lost in quick ports, poor support, bad exclusives, low third party sales and incomplete infrastructure then It would be wasted because when the others arrive, developers wont have much reason to invest their time and money on versions of 720/ps4 for Wii U. So here is hoping Nintendo is serious about investing on it (even in their own way). We need to see first and third party games fully realized on the console before the new guys arrive, games that take advantage of graphics technology, unique functions and infraestructure with good budget behind on production and marketing.

Now if a exclusive, good mainstreamed concept with nice production values and marketing does not sell ok...then Wii U would be in trouble. So lets try to do our part when te time arrives.

Problem is that even if Nintendo opens up, and third parties give it their all, it's the gamers that make the decision to buy. Most unfortunately will be waiting for the big hardware upgrades in the 720 and PS4, or have a PC. Hopefully there's enough of the consumer like myself that won't have those options to generate enough money for publishers.

 

[metalslimer]

Nintendo's arrogance during the SNES and N64 days haunts them to this day in regards to western 3rd party relations. Slowly but surely they have been winning 3rd parties back. I would say they have excellent relations with Square Enix, Capcom, Tecmo Koei, and Namco which pretty much covers the Japanese side. And they seem to have formed a great relationship with Ubisoft during the Wii era. It will be up to Nintendo to get companies like 2K, Epic, Crytek, Bethesda, etc. interested in the Wii U. These things don't change overnight because Nintendo certainly doesn't have the unlimited bank account MS did to buy their way into the video game business.

Nintendo needs something like Gears of War level of co production with a 3rd party. perhaps giving Epic one of their franchises to make an UE4 game with. This is the kind of thing that builds up relationships.

 

[Effect]

Nintendo's arrogance during the SNES and N64 days haunts them to this day in regards to western 3rd party relations. Slowly but surely they have been winning 3rd parties back. I would say they have excellent relations with Square Enix, Capcom, Tecmo Koei, and Namco which pretty much covers the Japanese side. And they seem to have formed a great relationship with Ubisoft during the Wii era. It will be up to Nintendo to get companies like 2K, Epic, Crytek, Bethesda, etc. interested in the Wii U. These things don't change overnight because Nintendo certainly doesn't have the unlimited bank account MS did to buy their way into the video game business.

Nintendo needs something like Gears of War level of co production with a 3rd party. perhaps giving Epic one of their franchises to make an UE4 game with. This is the kind of thing that builds up relationships.

Until I see a numbered Final Fantasy on a Nintendo console and Capcom's big titles then and only then will I agree that Nintendo has excellent relations with them. Until then it's all talk.

On the subject of test games. To hell with any publisher and developer pushing something like that and acknowledging it is that. I fell for that crap on the Wii and I will not waste my money again doing that on the Wii U.

 

[metalslimer]

Until I see a numbered Final Fantasy on a Nintendo console and Capcom's big titles then and only then will I agree that Nintendo has excellent relations with them. Until then it's all talk.

On the subject of test games. To hell with any publisher and developer pushing something like that and acknowledging it is that. I fell for that crap on the Wii and I will not waste my money again doing that on the Wii U.

The fact that Dragon Quest X is on Wii U should say they at least have a good relationship with the Japanese side. And I have very little doubt Wii U will receive Resident Evil 6. Whether or not Wii U gets games like Final Fantasy 15 or Dragon's Dogma 2 depends on how well the system sells imo because the way things are going with Sony Wii U could be the best viable option for a lot of japanese 3rd parties

And for what its worth Capcom made Tatsunoko vs Capcom and Monster Hunter Tri exclusively for Wii and Square Enix has been pretty much dead on every console.

 

[schuelma]

The fact that Dragon Quest X is on Wii U should say they at least have a good relationship with the Japanese side. .

Dragon Quest is an odd case because SE really has little say in where the series goes.

Though DQX coming to Wii U can't be a bad thing.

 

[metalslimer]

Dragon Quest is an odd case because SE really has little say in where the series goes.

Though DQX coming to Wii U can't be a bad thing.

They obviously do since they broke the usual Dragon Quest rule of it going to the highest base platform. They're making a game for a system with 0 userbase. Nintendo definitely gave Square Enix an incentive to also release the game on Wii U.

 

[Aguila]

I think I can understand the lack of third party support during the N64 and Gamecube eras (PS consoles had a better disk format and bigger userbases) but for third parties to abandon the Wii was just plain stupid.

 

[Meelow]

Dragon Quest is an odd case because SE really has little say in where the series goes.

Though DQX coming to Wii U can't be a bad thing.

I think it's a really good thing, It's known that Dragon Quest only goes to the highest selling console, and it's good that Nintendo convinced them to bring it to Wii U knowing the Wii U doesn't have a userbase yet.

I think I can understand the lack of third party support during the N64 and Gamecube eras (PS consoles had a better disk format and bigger userbases) but for third parties to abandon the Wii was just plain stupid.

It's because of how weak it was, if the Wii was on par with the PS3/360 hardware wise and still had the same sales it could of easily been the SNES/PS2 of this gen.

 

[metalslimer]

I think I can understand the lack of third party support during the N64 and Gamecube eras (PS consoles had a better disk format and bigger userbases) but for third parties to abandon the Wii was just plain stupid.

Not at all. By the time people realized the Wii was going to be a success it was too late. They had already been working on HD engines for years and had begun making games. It takes years to make big games for the system and by the time they came out with the games they had already established bases on the other two systems. Not to mention a large amount of Japanese support shifted to handhelds so the one place that had a good shot of making Wii games was on DS/PSP

 

[schuelma]

I think it's a really good thing, It's known that Dragon Quest only goes to the highest selling console, and it's good that Nintendo convinced them to bring it to Wii U knowing the Wii U doesn't have a userbase yet.



It's because of how weak it was, if the Wii was on par with the PS3/360 hardware wise and still had the same sales it could of easily been the PS2 of this gen.

Oh I agree its a good thing.

But remember X is going to sell a fraction of what the usual mainline entries do, so its not as huge as it might have been.

Still a good thing though.

 

[schuelma]

Something interesting to think about with Japanese support is I think there is a lot of evidence that PSP actually took a lot of support from the Wii.

Its early, but it certainly looks like Vita is not going to be in that position.

 

[metalslimer]

I'm sure Nintendo agreed to potentially publish and market Dragon Quest X Wii U heavily when it hits the store shelves. It would be a good for Nintendo to establish an MMO base as early as possible especially if DQX is actually going to be good (which honestly I'm not too sure of, it might fall into the MMO plague that has killed a bunch a turned others F2P)

Something interesting to think about with Japanese support is I think there is a lot of evidence that PSP actually took a lot of support from the Wii.

Its early, but it certainly looks like Vita is not going to be in that position.

No but 3DS certainly could be in that position. It has basically become the biggest viable platform in Japan which is both good for Nintendo but potentially terrible for Wii U.

 

[Meelow]

Something interesting to think about with Japanese support is I think there is a lot of evidence that PSP actually took a lot of support from the Wii.

Its early, but it certainly looks like Vita is not going to be in that position.

We know the 3DS is getting a lot of Japanese support so I think it could of been a plan of Nintendo from the start, steal Japanese support from Sony, and than focus on getting western developers to develop on the Wii U and 3DS.

 

[metalslimer]

Nintendo will never get western publishers to focus on 3DS. Never....ever...never. Western 3rd parties operate on 2 mentalities now. Big multiplatform projects or 99 cent/F2P iOS games.

 

[EatChildren]

The third party situation can change, but it will be gradual. Sixteen years is a long time. If your focus is on third party software, you need to pick a different platform. Going Nintendo-only is a recipe for disaster and you miss out on a significant chunk of what makes gaming so special.

And yes, as others have stated I was speaking of consoles only, from the Nintendo 64 onwards. Most of Nintendo's consoles have had middling third party offerings compared to other platforms. It the norm (annoyingly so).

I think I can understand the lack of third party support during the N64 and Gamecube eras (PS consoles had a better disk format and bigger userbases) but for third parties to abandon the Wii was just plain stupid.

The Wii's shitty third party support was due to two reasons.

Firstly, third parties foresaw the Wii as a failure, and continued to see it as such for too long. They predicted it would go belly up at any moment. It didn't. When they then tried to push a bit of software the software market had already stabilised on one that didn't really support their games. As I've said before, I guarantee numerous third parties would revise their Wii support if we were able to go back to the start of this generation with today's knowledge. They missed out on making a lot more money than they could have off the platform.

Secondly, the Wii's hardware is shit, and third parties were doing quite well on 360/PS3/PC. It isn't like the Wii was their only option. Every major game invested on the latter platforms was too difficult, time consuming and expensive to port to the Wii, and rightly so. Nintendo essentially made the most difficult console to port, to the point where it stood alone. I don't know if Nintendo predicted this, but if they didn't they made a tremendous mistake in that area.

Wii U could be different. It might get great support. Crap support. Okay support. I just don't expect it to be a change that happens over night. And again, if you want third party games, pick a different platform, because the home of third parties has not been Nintendo consoles for sixteen years.

I should note I loved a lot of the third party exclusives on the Wii. But part of loving those exclusives came from knowing I could get non-Wii third party games on my PC. I could appreciate both without missing out.

 

[Meelow]

Nintendo will never get western publishers to focus on 3DS. Never....ever...never. Western 3rd parties operate on 2 mentalities now. Big multiplatform projects or 99 cent/F2P iOS games.

I mean focus on getting western developers to want to develop on the Wii U and 3DS

 

[Pittree]

Problem is that even if Nintendo opens up, and third parties give it their all, it's the gamers that make the decision to buy. Most unfortunately will be waiting for the big hardware upgrades in the 720 and PS4, or have a PC. Hopefully there's enough of the consumer like myself that won't have those options to generate enough money for publishers.

In these 16 years of bad support we are talking about, a lot of gamers have developed some kind of attachment to brands like XBOX and PlayStation wich in some way also influenced them on this whole "holy grail" idea of graphics. However lots of those gamers where Nintendo fans once too, and I think that "nostalgia" would make them at least interested on the new "Nintendo HD games" and Third party exclusives or enanced ports. In addition I think this generation have lasted a little too much, so those two factors could prove to be the little push they need for buying a Wii U and therefore expand the "mainstream hardcore" market on the console.

To be honest I'm feeling tired of this generation in gameplay mechanics and graphics. And I know I am not the only one, so if Nintendo hits the right price point with Wii U, I could see a lot jumping even if it is "just for the kicks". I think this generation brought a lot of improvements on the table but fun is not one of them. (with a few exceptions.)

 

[Gahiggidy]

Everybody think about how many years they've been gaming. For sixteen of those years Nintendo has been playing second fiddle to other consoles when it comes to third party support. 16 years.

It's not going to change any time soon.

That was all before the age of twitter. Now we have twitter.

 

[JordanN]

The third party situation can change, but it will be gradual. Sixteen years is a long time. If your focus is on third party software, you need to pick a different platform. Going Nintendo-only is a recipe for disaster and you miss out on a significant chunk of what makes gaming so special.

Eh, I'm interested in what this "special" is.

If I was given the chance, I would have no qualms going Gamecube only with the occasional PC support.

At least then, it was nice knowing I could go into a store and see mid or high tier games like Tony Hawk or Soul Calibur available for the platform.

 

[GameplayWhore]

That was all before the age of twitter. Now we have twitter.

So Vince McMahon reminds my friends two or three times a week. How does that make a difference except for perhaps allowing developers to bolster their already existing opinions of the industry?





bonus snarky response that I forgot to post earlier but copypasted:

I never expected the GamePad pro (such a stupid name, where's the pad!)

Thank goodness there is no "GamePad pro".

There's the "GamePad", which has a giant pad in the center, and there's a "Pro Controller". Congratulations, you made up the stupid name.

 

[Terrell]

The third party situation can change, but it will be gradual. Sixteen years is a long time. If your focus is on third party software, you need to pick a different platform. Going Nintendo-only is a recipe for disaster and you miss out on a significant chunk of what makes gaming so special.

And yes, as others have stated I was speaking of consoles only, from the Nintendo 64 onwards. Most of Nintendo's consoles have had middling third party offerings compared to other platforms. It the norm (annoyingly so).



The Wii's shitty third party support was due to two reasons.

Firstly, third parties foresaw the Wii as a failure, and continued to see it as such for too long. They predicted it would go belly up at any moment. It didn't. When they then tried to push a bit of software the software market had already stabilised on one that didn't really support their games. As I've said before, I guarantee numerous third parties would revise their Wii support if we were able to go back to the start of this generation with today's knowledge. They missed out on making a lot more money than they could have off the platform.

Secondly, the Wii's hardware is shit, and third parties were doing quite well on 360/PS3/PC. It isn't like the Wii was their only option. Every major game invested on the latter platforms was too difficult, time consuming and expensive to port to the Wii, and rightly so. Nintendo essentially made the most difficult console to port, to the point where it stood alone. I don't know if Nintendo predicted this, but if they didn't they made a tremendous mistake in that area.

Wii U could be different. It might get great support. Crap support. Okay support. I just don't expect it to be a change that happens over night. And again, if you want third party games, pick a different platform, because the home of third parties has not been Nintendo consoles for sixteen years.

I should note I loved a lot of the third party exclusives on the Wii. But part of loving those exclusives came from knowing I could get non-Wii third party games on my PC. I could appreciate both without missing out.

Question to you: considering Sony has all but abandoned Japan at this point, where do you think that leaves Japanese 3rd party developers?
One could suggest that the Vita is ailing so badly for games because Japan's development community has largely put no faith in SONY, not just the Vita itself.

 

[EatChildren]

Question to you: considering Sony has all but abandoned Japan at this point, where do you think that leaves Japanese 3rd party developers?
One could suggest that the Vita is ailing so badly for games because Japan's development community has largely put no faith in SONY, not just the Vita itself.

Japan needs to sort it's own shit out to a certain degree. Their backwards top down development policy had lead to vapourware games sucking money out of studios and big budget failures. Plus they've missed out on Western bonuses like well marketed, heavily supported middleware. This will hopefully change next generation.

Japanese developers will probably move to portables and iOS for any game that isn't guaranteed worldwide success. The latter game will be big budget blockbusters designed with heavy appeal to the West.

Eh, I'm interested in what this "special" is.

This generation?

Bayonetta, The Witcher 2, Vanquish, Nier, Shadows of the Damned, Portal 2, Mirror's Edge, Total War: Shogun 2, Arkham Asylum/City, Alpha Protocol, Alan Wake (American Nightmare), Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Serious Sam 3, Team Fortress 2, Super Meat Boy, Amnesia, Bastion, The Blind of Isaac, Cryostasis, Half-Life 2 Ep1/2, Dear Esther, Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light, Bulletstorm, Dead Space 1/2, Uncharted series, Mass Effect trilogy, Max Anarchy, Demon's/Dark Soul, El Shaddai, etc.

You might like them all. You might like only some. But if you like none, you're from a world I don't really want to be a part of. Nintendo makes excellent games I have to play. They do not make the only games worth playing, and they do not define the medium. To miss out the above is something I could never do.

 

[Pineconn]

Please tell me if I'm wrong.

Nintendo had difficulty with 3rd party support for the N64 because it still used catridges and Nintendo was crummy with their 3rd party relations.

Nintendo had difficulty with 3rd party support for the GCN because the disc size was lacking and Nintendo was crummy with their 3rd party relations.

Nintendo had difficulty with 3rd party support for the Wii because the disc size was lacking, the hardware was weak, Internet capabilities were poor, and Nintendo was crummy with their 3rd party relations.

Obviously I overgeneralized it a lot, but Nintendo seems to have fixed most or all of these areas (we have not seen the fidelity of their online infrastructure). So, either 3rd party support will be on Wii U, or they will come up with other absurd excuses.

It is certainly possible, however, that the install base is not there and the leap between the Wii U and PS4/Nextbox is greater than we expect.

 

[AzaK]

Nintendo essentially made the most difficult console to port, to the point where it stood alone. I don't know if Nintendo predicted this, but if they didn't they made a tremendous mistake in that area.

Iwata original said that the Wii would be great for developers because they were used to the Gamecube. He could have been PR'ing to get support, but if we believe him it displays to me a complete lack of understanding as to what was about to happen regarding the difficulty in porting modern tech games to Wii.

Wii U could be different. It might get great support. Crap support. Okay support. I just don't expect it to be a change that happens over night. And again, if you want third party games, pick a different platform, because the home of third parties has not been Nintendo consoles for sixteen years.

I'm basically screwed then if this happens. And it's the reason I am vassilating and trying to take a more wait and see approach despite how difficult it will be when the thing actually launches. At least there's 4 more months to see what's coming before I have to decide.

 

[Terrell]

Japan needs to sort it's own shit out to a certain degree. Their backwards top down development policy had lead to vapourware games sucking money out of studios and big budget failures. Plus they've missed out on Western bonuses like well marketed, heavily supported middleware. This will hopefully change next generation.

Japanese developers will probably move to portables and iOS for any game that isn't guaranteed worldwide success. The latter game will be big budget blockbusters designed with heavy appeal to the West.

So, ceding the console market to the West ENTIRELY then, is what you're saying. Well then, glad I'm sticking with my Nintendo console.

 

[JordanN]

This generation?

Bayonetta, The Witcher 2, Vanquish, Nier, Shadows of the Damned, Portal 2, Mirror's Edge, Total War: Shogun 2, Arkham Asylum/City, Alpha Protocol, Alan Wake (American Nightmare), Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Serious Sam 3, Team Fortress 2, Super Meat Boy, Amnesia, Bastion, The Blind of Isaac, Cryostasis, Half-Life 2 Ep1/2, Dear Esther, Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light, Bulletstorm, Dead Space 1/2, Uncharted series, Mass Effect trilogy, Max Anarchy, Demon's/Dark Soul, El Shaddai, etc.

You might like them all. You might like only some. But if you like none, you're from a world I don't really want to be a part of. Nintendo makes excellent games I have to play. They do not make the only games worth playing, and they do not define the medium. To miss out the above is something I could never do.

Eh, I was looking for something that applies in general. With the Wii I wouldn't of liked it, others may have though.

Sticking with Gamecube, I wouldn't feel any less left out about gaming. Maybe GTA but that's what the PC would be for.

 

[EatChildren]

So, ceding the console market to the West ENTIRELY then, is what you're saying.

Pretty much, but it depends on whether or not they can adapt to modern distribution.

Big console games are expensive, and this has hit a lot of Japanese developers. So we'll see them (as we already are) ensuring worldwide success of their console franchises. Yes, this will mean then targeting the West quite heavily.

'Big' games that publishers/developers are concerned wont see extreme success in the West will shift to portable titles. We saw this a lot over the DS generation actually, and we're seeing it again with Shin Megami Tensei IV. That way they can keep budgets in check, and given the heavy increase of portable gaming in Japan be able to ensure success on the most profitable platform.

You'll still get a lot of niche Japanese console games that either wont leave Japan (for obvious cultural/franchise reasons), or will be picked up by Western publishers for a niche release.

The other alternative is that Japan will finally jump on PC (we're seeing this a bit more now) and digital distribution. I expect Sony and Microsoft's consoles to heavily adopt digital distribution, and for many Japanese developers this could be seen as an easy way to distribute certain niche games worldwide without the financial burden of printing, shipping and store marketing.

 

[Earendil]

It's interesting. I walk down the gaming isle at Best Buy or Target, and I see very little on the HD systems that interests me.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Please tell me if I'm wrong.

Nintendo had difficulty with 3rd party support for the N64 because it still used catridges and Nintendo was crummy with their 3rd party relations.

Nintendo had difficulty with 3rd party support for the GCN because the disc size was lacking and Nintendo was crummy with their 3rd party relations.

Nintendo had difficulty with 3rd party support for the Wii because the disc size was lacking, the hardware was weak, Internet capabilities were poor, and Nintendo was crummy with their 3rd party relations.

Obviously I overgeneralized it a lot, but Nintendo seems to have fixed most or all of these areas (we have not seen the fidelity of their online infrastructure). So, either 3rd party support will be on Wii U, or they will come up with other absurd excuses.

It is certainly possible, however, that the install base is not there and the leap between the Wii U and PS4/Nextbox is greater than we expect.

You forgot the biggest excuse for 3rd parties: "Our games don't sell on Nintendo platforms"

It's not that 3rd parties hate Nintendo, they hate that their games don't seem to sell as much as the other systems. No matter how great the online, how powerful or how affordable the Wii U is, it will always come down to that. The only systems that ever got it right for Nintendo completely was the NES and SNES. I do hope that the Wii U can be more universal like the SNES though......raises glass.....cheers.

 

[HylianTom]

I remain convinced that Nintendo's third-party issue will remain roughly where it is until there is some sort of industry earthquake, wherein one console maker exits or a huge new player enters the scene. Something has to alter the landscape.

Nintendo has sinned in the past. Normally, sinning is forgiveable (see: RROD, $599, etc) - but when combined with anemic sales of third-party titles for a company's systems, I can understand why they avoid Nintendo's consoles.. somewhat.

Still, there is shared blame for those anemic sales. It's not black and white, not entirely on Nintendo, and not entirely on third parties. There's a chicken-and-egg dynamic going-on: third parties don't trust Nintendo fans, and Nintendo fans don't trust third parties. :/

If Nintendo somehow surprises everyone again and grabs a large market share (something I am kinda skeptical of) while "core"/"traditional" games sell relatively well early on, thus demonstrating that there is indeed an audience awaiting such titles.. well, then, third parties who ignore this opportunity will get no pity from me.

 

[ugoo18]

I remain convinced that Nintendo's third-party issue will remain roughly where it is until there is some sort of industry earthquake, wherein one console maker exits or a huge new player enters the scene. Something has to alter the landscape.

Essentially a big 3rd party dev (EA or Activision for example) pumps in tons of money (Dwarfs GTA IV's 100 million) into a AAA game and releases it for only the PS4/720 where it flops horribly and sinks them?

Or Nintendo swoops on a 3rd Party dev and makes them their own?

 

[AzaK]

I remain convinced that Nintendo's third-party issue will remain roughly where it is until there is some sort of industry earthquake, wherein one console maker exits or a huge new player enters the scene. Something has to alter the landscape.

Nintendo has sinned in the past. Normally, sinning is forgiveable (see: RROD, $599, etc) - but when combined with anemic sales of third-party titles for a company's systems, I can understand why they avoid Nintendo's consoles.. somewhat.

Still, there is shared blame for those anemic sales. It's not black and white, not entirely on Nintendo, and not entirely on third parties. There's a chicken-and-egg dynamic going-on: third parties don't trust Nintendo fans, and Nintendo fans don't trust third parties. :/

If Nintendo somehow surprises everyone again and grabs a large market share (something I am kinda skeptical of) while "core"/"traditional" games sell relatively well early on, thus demonstrating that there is indeed an audience awaiting such titles.. well, then, third parties who ignore this opportunity will get no pity from me.

Nintendo know that core gamers buy their consoles. They also know that core gamers like to play non-Nintendo games like Tomb Raider, DarkSiders and all that jazz. All that I believe Nintendo are attempting is to keep those gamers from buying another system, or minimising how many software units they buy for another platform. To do that they need a high proportion of third party games coming to Wii U or else it'll be Wii all over again as most publishers slowly lose interest as they sell primarily on the 720/PS4.

They have 1 year to establish themselves as a solid platform for multiplats before the competition come out because those consoles will likely be primary SKUs as they were this gen.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Nintendo was top dog with the NES not only because of lacking competition but also because the games were great from everyone. The SNES had Genesis as competition but it still out shinned it in almost every way.

Ever since the SNES, there has been a "but" after each system Nintendo has released.

N64: Carts were expensive to sell and made games expensive (Turok 1 was $79.99!) and due to this, less games were released on it and less developers made games on it.

Gamecube: Got off to a good start actually but was priced too high at a $199.99 launch and did less than the other systems but not enough to make it unique to stand out as better besides some great games. There was also a big shortage of games in early 2002 while Halo 1 on Xbox was making a name for itself. Third Parties slowly started releasing games but it was a little late and while they sold decent on Gamecube at first, they were outclassed by PS2 and Xbox sales, sans a few gems like Soul Calibur 2 and Timesplitters 2.

The Wii: Third Parties didn't believe in the system at all because it was a radical change from the norm. The system sold insane numbers it's first 3 years but by that time Third Parties were just starting to release original games on the system after 2 years of PS2 ports with waggle it was too late for them to really make a dent with good sales. Big Third Party games missed the Wii entirely due to the system not being able to port from HD systems without complete overhauls. Also, Nintendo's own lack of support of the Wii in the entire year of 2011 and so far in 2012 really makes the Wii name weaker.


The Wii U: This system doesn't really have a downside that I can think of yet, with the only thing being that Third Parties will judge what has just happened in the past 15 years and will need a few hit games that sell a lot in order to put more faith in Nintendo.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Why are people surprised by the 2K thing... it's a subsidiary of Take-Two Interactive, and the CEO has already gone on record as being "skeptical" and essentially taking a wait and see approach.

 

[ShadowFox08]

Please tell me if I'm wrong. Nintendo had difficulty with 3rd party support for the Wii because the disc size was lacking, the hardware was weak, Internet capabilities were poor, and Nintendo was crummy with their 3rd party relations.

No, the Wii's disc space was not a problem for the vast majority of games. It was a standard DVD disc(4.7GB for regular, or 8.54 for dual disc) which was the exactly the same kind of disc used for the 360--which I believe most developers working on the 360, didn't have a problem with either.

Here's some notable examples of Wii games:
Sizes in GB from biggest to smallest:
Metroid Prime Trilogy – 7.45
Metroid: Other M – 7.28
Super Smash Bros. Brawl – 6.77
Xenoblade Chronicles – 5.98
The Legend Of Zelda: Skyward Sword – 4.09
Punch-Out!! – 3.66
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn – 3.59
Kirby’s Epic Yarn – 3.59
Wario Land: The Shake Dimension – 3.55
Donkey Kong Country Returns – 3.34
Super Mario Galaxy – 3.28
WarioWare: Smooth Moves – 3.27
Mario Kart Wii – 2.60
Super Mario Galaxy 2 – 1.30
Pokemon Battle Revolution – 1.24
Kirby’s Adventure Wii – 1.19
Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree – 1.19
The Legend Of Zelda: Twilight Princess – 1.09
Link’s Crossbow Training – 0.23
Super Mario All-Stars – 0.03

*To this day... I feel that Nintendo should have included Link's Crossbow Training with Twilight Princess, instead of separate. Would have made TP so much more amazing.. I'm sure they had it done already for the most part.. Felt like Nintendo was being a cash cow..


Anyway, I'm a newb here who's been lurking on this board for a while, and I like to say, its nice to meet you all. I do have a question that's been raised, but not really to my satisfaction(also googled countless times as well, but just couldn't find answer to my question on a technical level)). I keep hearing on neogaf, gamefaqs, and other boards, that the PS3/360 is 20X more powerful than PS2(some people even have said the Wii instead of Ps2)? I'm just wondering, how do you guys measure that? I've tried measuring that based on CPU clockspeed alone, and it does seem from that alone, that the 360 is nearly 20X more than that of the PS2's.. But of course, we would have to take in different architectures into account as well. Aso.. What about GPU/graphics? Would PS3/360 be 5-10x more powerful than last gen? I know clock speed can't be the majority factor in this.. sigh.

And yes, I've definitely been up to date on the rumors about next gen vs wii U won't be much of a gap in power vs Wii Vs PS3/360.

thanks

 

[Drago]

No, the Wii's disc space was not a problem for the vast majority of games. It was a standard DVD disc, which was the exactly the same kind of disc used for the 360--which I believe most developers working on the 360, didn't have a problem with either.

Anyway, I'm a newb here who's been lurking on this board for a while, and I do have a question that's been raised, but not really to my satisfaction(also googled countless times as well). I keep hearing on neogaf, gamefaqs, and other boards, that the PS3/360 is 20X more powerful than PS2(some people even have said the Wii instead of Ps2)? I'm just wondering, how do you guys measure that? I've tried measuring that based on CPU clockspeed alone, and it does seem from that alone, that the 360 is nearly 20X more than that of the PS2's.. But of course, we would have to take in different architectures into account as well. Aso.. What about GPU/graphics? Would PS3/360 be 5-10x more powerful than last gen? I know clock speed can't be the majority factor in this.. sigh.

And yes, I've definitely been up to date on the rumors about next gen vs wii U won't be much of a gap in power vs Wii Vs PS3/360.


thanks

It's all a bunch of bullshit.

 

[ShadowFox08]

It's all a bunch of bullshit.

Then why are do people keep throwing that variable number around, especially when comparing it to rumors about PS4/720 being up to 10x more powerful than 360/720, and how next gen won't be at a big of a gap vs current gen(Wii U supposedly being up to 2-3x more powerful than 360/PS3, and PS3/720 being 3-5x more powerful than the Wii U?)?

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Then why are do people keep throwing that variable number around, especially when comparing it to rumors about PS4/720 being up to 10x more powerful than 360/720, and how next gen won't be at a big of a gap vs current gen(Wii U supposedly being up to 2-3x more powerful than 360/PS3, and PS3/720 being 3-5x more powerful than the Wii U?)?

I agree, raw numbers of 3-5x more powerful won't mean anything if all the games end up looking basically the same.

 

[Fatalmephisto]

It's interesting. I walk down the gaming isle at Best Buy or Target, and I see very little on the HD systems that interests me.

I run into that every time I'm at Gamestop now. It takes me about 45 mins to an hour on deciding what game i want. I hate it.