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[lherre]

I don't think it's the same problem if you have twice the memory in one case, vs six-to-eight times the memory, in the other.

Wii U haven't 6-8 times ps360 memory (maybe you are refering to ps4-x720) ... so if you have a downport to wii u you can "downport" again from this version. You only have to cut more XD.

Besides a "twice" amount can be 2+ gb of difference, not a "small" difference in my opinion to make downports an easy thing.

 

[Ryoku]

Wii U haven't 6-8 times ps360 memory ... so if you have a downport to wii u you can "downport" again from this version.

He meant PS4 maybe having twice as much RAM as Wii U, and 8 times as much as current gen.

 

[ugoo18]

Just watched the Nintendo Direct > http://youtu.be/NoWr6GHKMd4

As expected it's a 12mn presentation of Demon Training, nothing more. I'm just wondering what Iwata said in the beginning of the vid. about E3 and Wii U, maybe something about a future NinDir.? Waiting for some translation.

Next stop > EA sports event (today and tomorrow).

Is there a live stream or something for that EA event?

 

[The_Lump]

Wii U haven't 6-8 times ps360 memory (maybe you are refering to ps4-x720) ... so if you have a downport to wii u you can "downport" again from this version. You only have to cut more XD.

Besides a "twice" amount can be 2+ gb of difference, not a "small" difference in my opinion to make downports an easy thing.

i tink the 6-8 times thing was referring to 360 and PS3 compared to 720 and PS4.

I'd also think (possibly incorrectly) that as PC games are effectively scalable to suit different levels of hardware (including RAM), that they will always be able to cater to the lowest denominator. For example, lets say a 2015 game can use up to 6GB RAM on its highest settings. Most peoples PCs will still likely have 2-4GB total (with much of that eaten up by OS running in the background). But they'll still be able to buy and play those games, just scaled down. So by default games will always be able to be scaled back to some extent.

In the same way, even if the PS4 had twice the RAM of the WiiU, the games will likely still be able to run on a system with half that amount fo RAM, it will just be scaled back graphically. How difficult that will be or whether anyone will want to bother remains to be seen and is probably entirely circumstantial. But its the norm as far as I had assumed

 

[DrWong]

Is there a live stream or something for that EA event?

Nope : /

 

[z0m3le]

Well, then you will have the same problem with wii U, I think ps4 and x360 will have "at least" twice the memory that wii U has. So it won't be easy to downport in any case.

Hmm, seems counter productive to your comment about being able to port to PS360 if it can port to Wii U. I know you know your stuff far better than me, but I think RAM @ the 720p resolution actually doesn't really need a bump of 4GB and textures can easily be handled at that resolution with 2GB. I know obviously there are other things that will also need the RAM, but textures are usually the most RAM hungry component of a game scene.

I also tend to think without a huge decrease in latency, RAM 4GBs and especially 8GBs will go unused, the more I learn about tech, the more I wonder if people will really see a huge difference in PS4 and XB3, and if not. It could easily lead to Wii U becoming a lead platform for games, not sure if anyone read this article: http://gamasutra.com/view/news/174143/Gamasutras_halfyear_US_video_game_retail_sales_analysis.php -The game market is currently shrinking rapidly, and I don't know if the budgets will be there to really take advantage of the hardware, I mean only $2.2 billion was made this year in software sales so far according to that article, and game market revenue is quickly hitting 2006 levels, and still look to be dropping.

Will new consoles really help software sales? Software sales require a large customer base, so I'm not sure we will be seeing a ton of games hitting $100m budgets for XB3/PS4 until they can realistically expect 7m copies or more sold, and I'm not sure if 100m is enough to take advantage of 4GB of ram, let alone 8GB.

 

[Donnie]

Porting from 4GB to 2GB is one thing, but then porting down to 512MB seems quite another, definitely not the same thing anyway.

While you're here lherre are you still sticking to 2 way SMT for the WiiU CPU?

 

[Stulaw]

So, when do you guys think we'll see the full power of the console being used? And can we be sure it actually is being used at all?

Also, does anyone think any of the 3rd party ports at launch will use the extra RAM at all?

 

[ASIS]

Nintendo Direct is more succssful than they ever imagined.

From now on, as there's often a lot of info to get through, they'll be doing Mini-Directs (Chotto Directs) in order to give more focused and timely info on some titles.

Wii U Direct was mentioned in passing only.

I really do like the idea of Nintendo Directs, they really do give a very good impression on the titles they are promoting.

Here's hoping for more.

 

[z0m3le]

So, when do you guys think we'll see the full power of the console being used? And can we be sure it actually is being used at all?

Also, does anyone think any of the 3rd party ports at launch will use the extra RAM at all?

I would only feel safe saying that 1 title in the entire history of console gaming has used all of a console's power, oddly enough it was a launch title on Gamecube, beyond that there are always improvements that can be made to just about every game on every platform. Some PS3 wizards who coded directly to metal might have also accomplished that level of maximum performance, but what I'm saying is it is unlikely that a developer will draw out every ounce of power from Wii U.

As for potential of hitting it's 80-90% max, I'd say like most consoles, after the third year and especially by the 5th year, so between 2016 and 2018 we will see some really great stuff on Wii U.

 

[MadeInBeats]

So, when do you guys think we'll see the full power of the console being used? And can we be sure it actually is being used at all?

Retro's 2nd, or if we're lucky, 3rd Wii U game

And can we be sure it actually is being used at all?

There's a mind bender, lol... Shit, I don't know. Never really I suppose. I don't know you could ever really say hardware will hit a wall for as long as there are people developing on it. Look at some of the stuff people have done with the Commodore 64 in recent years. But there will be a finite limit eventually.

Also, does anyone think any of the 3rd party ports at launch will use the extra RAM at all?

Sounds like Gearbox will be, and I think you can tell that EA have with AC3 because the textures look better over the PS3 version. Depends on the developer though. After Namco's moaning about the CPU, if they can't be arsed WiiU'ing the code like Gearbox have (and also said they did it with relative ease) you can't imagine them being bothered doing anything other than bare minimum on-par ports.

 

[The_Lump]

While you're here lherre are you still sticking to 2 way SMT for the WiiU CPU?

I was also wondering about 2-way SMT. Recently on B3D they were debating whether 2-SMT was still in given rumours and the recent report of the CPU having less threads than 360. If this was the case and that feature was removed, wouldn't that cause a big headache for devs who were far into development using the hardware Nintendo had given them last year?

Is it somtehing that can be removed without the need to overhaul games etc? If not then that would certainly make me lean towards those rumors being false, as surely Nintendo wouldn't make a fundamental change like that so late on.

 

[The_Lump]

I would only feel safe saying that 1 title in the entire history of console gaming has used all of a console's power, oddly enough it was a launch title on Gamecube.

yeah, dem graphics on Universal Studios Theme Park Adventures were of the hook

Edit: Double post, sorry

 

[EatChildren]

So, when do you guys think we'll see the full power of the console being used? And can we be sure it actually is being used at all?

Also, does anyone think any of the 3rd party ports at launch will use the extra RAM at all?

As with all generations, we won't see the best looking and optimised games until the later end of the generation.

I would only feel safe saying that 1 title in the entire history of console gaming has used all of a console's power, oddly enough it was a launch title on Gamecube

Even then though Factor 5 improved on their own technology with Rebel Strike.

 

[Donnie]

As with all generations, we won't see the best looking and optimised games until the later end of the generation.



Even then though Factor 5 improved on their own technology with Rebel Strike.

Yeah didn't Rebel Strike include a split screen version of Rogue Leader as well?

 

[10k]

For fuck sakes.....Nintendo better get their marketing team to pull something out of their ass. 14 months since its first reveal and we still get this kind of confusion?

Have you ever wanted to play a game but you had to go on a long car trip? No problem! You can take the Wii U gamepad with you and game on the go! Yes you heard right you can continue playing on the gamepad without the TV and it plays the same as it would on the big screen.

http://playestate.com/top-5-highlights-about-the-new-super-mario-bros-u/#.UAa_JWt5mK2

 

[Donnie]

To be fair that's just pure stupidity.

 

[Lachie007]

Nintendo probs think that people can't be THAT stupid!

 

[Nibel]

Not Nintendo's fault

 

[10k]

Are you sure? As I said before, depends on the level S-E want to achieve visually with the next FF entry using luminous.





Yes, but think that (as far as I know, not 100% sure) Crytek didn't port CE3 to Wii U, the responsible is one of the CE3 licensees and it is not available for anyone (other developers) and it hasn't "official" support by Crytek. So with this info I doubt too much about a Crysis 3 port right now.

Isn't it scalable? I don't think the PS4 and 720 will blow the Wii U out of the water. Look at FFXIII, the PS3 was superior to the 360 yet it got a 360 version and it was down rezzed to 576p and compressed cinematics and less lighting.

I think FFXV will make the wii u but getty shitty compromises.

 

[Heathbar]

Do we even know if the tech they are using to stream the video to the control pad allows people to be in another room? (e.g. people talk moving from their living room to their bedroom... while playing on the controller)

 

[10k]

Well, then you will have the same problem with wii U, I think ps4 and x360 will have "at least" twice the memory that wii U has. So it won't be easy to downport in any case.

Every time you post I desire a wii u less and less

Its starting to sound like an overclocked 360. How am I to get final fantasy next gen if it doesnt come to wii u or PC

 

[schuelma]

For all the hand wringing going on right now about marketing, etc., I suspect Wii U is going to very well at launch and most of this will be forgotten.

NSMB U is really being underestimated I think, and I do think the market is ready for a new console.

 

[The_Lump]

For fuck sakes.....Nintendo better get their marketing team to pull something out of their ass. 14 months since its first reveal and we still get this kind of confusion?



http://playestate.com/top-5-highlights-about-the-new-super-mario-bros-u/#.UAa_JWt5mK2

Oh dear. Lets not forget though that although its been "officially unvelived" this year, nintendo still havnt started advertising/promotions for it yet so its not that their incompetent, just not punctual.

 

[EatChildren]

Even then though Factor 5 improved on their own technology with Rebel Strike.

Yep, it did. From memory, the engine was also upgrade to simulate atmospheric light scattering, pushed more polys/objects on screen, more advanced particle and destruction effects, a more complex water shader to simulate flow of tides, and plenty of other goodies.

Factor 5 were wizards though.

EDIT: Err, to Donnie, not me.

Isn't it scalable? I don't think the PS4 and 720 will blow the Wii U out of the water. Look at FFXIII, the PS3 was superior to the 360 yet it got a 360 version and it was down rezzed to 576p and compressed cinematics and less lighting.

I think FFXV will make the wii u but getty shitty compromises.

The gap between the 360 and PS3 is significantly smaller than what the gap between the Wii U and PS4/720 likely will be.

 

[The_Lump]

http://www.gamezone.com/products/wi...ustice-gods-among-us-and-other-fighting-games

Interesting. At least they confirm they arn't just planning on cashing it in.

Quote from Ed Boon from polygon:

“Right now, all the systems are in parity with the same feature sets,” he said. “We’re obviously going to have some conversation about the Wii U’s unique controller and how to use it in a fighting game that’s not just a gimmick. I don’t want to just have a touchscreen that shows all the secret moves and you just press them to fire them off."

 

[z0m3le]

Do we even know if the tech they are using to stream the video to the control pad allows people to be in another room? (e.g. people talk moving from their living room to their bedroom... while playing on the controller)

Well it's a wireless connection and it's not IR communication, so yeah it should go through walls just fine. We do not know the distance, but if it's capable of being in a large living room, it should be able to travel 30 feet and possibly more.

Then again, if you are talking about playing games on just the controller, you could simply plug the console in, inside your room and you'd have access to the console from your bed without a TV. (We saw that you can switch the menu from the screen to the tv, and is default on the screen, which I don't believe we actually saw)

 

[ASIS]

I forgot to mention that RawMeatCowboy posted this and I didn't see it mentioned.

Wii U O-Live?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxa3kBgr1pw&feature=player_detailpage#t=724s

Hooray for arabic videos and comments!

 

[AntMurda]

Yep, it did. From memory, the engine was also upgrade to simulate atmospheric light scattering, pushed more polys/objects on screen, more advanced particle and destruction effects, a more complex water shader to simulate flow of tides, and plenty of other goodies.

Factor 5 were wizards though.

I always feel Factor 5 were great at making games that look great in screen shots. But their major problem was the mechanics were just awful. As soon as you actually interact with the game, there was something seriously lacking. Visually, I think there was always a very evident trace of LOD (what the texture only appears 2 feet in front of me, and texture variety as a whole was subpar. One endless texture over and over. Framerates were also very unstable especially on the N64 and first Rogue Leader.

 

[Nibel]

Did EC just quote himself?

 

[z0m3le]

The gap between the 360 and PS3 is significantly smaller than what the gap between the Wii U and PS4/720 likely will be.

Well, certainly this should be true, except that PS3 does have cell, which when used for graphics, adds quite a bit to the GFLOPs count.

The other major difference will be architecture between PS3 and 360, they are very different, while these other consoles are all using similar parts and even if Wii U uses R700 for it's GPU, a lot of GCN is built on R700, so you won't see a large difference there either, and certainly nothing like cell.

Xenos was also more advanced than PS3's GPU feature wise, and this won't really be the case between Wii U and XB3/PS4.

Comparing PS3 to 360 is comparing apples to oranges.

Comparing Wii U to PS4/XB3 will be oranges to oranges, so ports won't drastically change if it's built exclusively for one console and ported to the others.

 

[EatChildren]

Did EC just quote himself?

Shit.

I meant to quote Donnie.

Well, certainly this should be true, except that PS3 does have cell, which when used for graphics, adds quite a bit to the GFLOPs count.

The other major difference will be architecture between PS3 and 360, they are very different, while these other consoles are all using similar parts and even if Wii U uses R700 for it's GPU, a lot of GCN is built on R700, so you won't see a large difference there either, and certainly nothing like cell.

Xenos was also more advanced than PS3's GPU feature wise, and this won't really be the case between Wii U and XB3/PS4.

Comparing PS3 to 360 is comparing apples to oranges.

Comparing Wii U to PS4/XB3 will be oranges to oranges, so ports won't drastically change if it's built exclusively for one console and ported to the others.

I am fairly confident in saying that regardless of any apples/oranges argument the processing power and graphical capabilities gap between the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 is notably smaller than what the same gap will be between the Wii U and PlayStation 4 / Xbox 720.

 

[Donnie]

Isn't it scalable? I don't think the PS4 and 720 will blow the Wii U out of the water. Look at FFXIII, the PS3 was superior to the 360 yet it got a 360 version and it was down rezzed to 576p and compressed cinematics and less lighting.

I think FFXV will make the wii u but getty shitty compromises.

Outside of the FMV quality (which came down to disc size) I think the differences there were more down to FFXIII being developed exclusively for PS3 at first and then ported to 360 rather than PS3 being much more powerful (both systems are pretty even overall, each better in different ways). Developing a game from the ground up for one system can make porting to another quite difficult even on a system with similar power. There are even examples of PS2 games being ported to XBox and being significantly worse on XBox.

I think as long as the next FF is designed as a multi platform game WiiU would have a chance of getting a port. If its designed from the ground up to take advantage of PS4 hardware then its going to be difficult to port to WiiU. Just like porting a game developed to take advantage of WiiU hardware to 360 or PS3 would be difficult.

 

[Donnie]

Every time you post I desire a wii u less and less

Its starting to sound like an overclocked 360. How am I to get final fantasy next gen if it doesnt come to wii u or PC

Well we know that isn't the case so no need to worry.

 

[schuelma]

If its designed from the ground up to take advantage of PS4 hardware then its going to be difficult to port to WiiU. Just like porting a game developed to take advantage of WiiU hardware to 360 or PS3 would be difficult.

If SEdesigns the next Final Fantasy ground up for the PS4 they are really really stupid.

 

[z0m3le]

I am fairly confident in saying that regardless of any apples/oranges argument the processing power and graphical capabilities gap between the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 is notably smaller than what the same gap will be between the Wii U and PlayStation 4 / Xbox 720.

Well, certainly this should be true

People make the power difference sound pretty drastic, but we see it with PCs all the time, it's harder to add effects that don't exist in the hardware (like crytek is doing for crysis 3 on the consoles) when you exclusively create a game with one console in mind, you build it to that console's strengths. That is why often the lead platform is compromised to meet other consoles needs (for example I've heard 360 multiplatform games usually only use 1 core, because the PS3 only has 1 PPE) When Square built FF13 with PS3 in mind, they used cell, and they probably used the extra bandwidth in the XDR memory banks, this is something that reduced the quality of the 360 game.

That sort of thing will happen with Wii U when it comes to latency, it will be more a matter of scaling the same game down, just like you see on PCs going from a Desktop to a Laptop for instance, and not so much about cutting effects entirely.

Outside of the FMV quality (which came down to disc size) I think the differences there were more down to FFXV being developed exclusively for PS3 at first and then ported to 360 rather than PS3 being much more powerful (both systems are pretty even overall, each better in different ways). Developing a game from the ground up for one system can make porting to another quite difficult even on a system with similar power. There are examples of PS2 games being ported to XBox and being significantly worse than the original.

I think as long as the next FF is designed as a multi platform game WiiU would have a chance of getting a port. If its designed from the ground up to take advantage of PS4 hardware then its going to be difficult to port to WiiU. Just like porting a game developed to take advantage of WiiU hardware to 360 or PS3 would be difficult.

Exactly what I'm trying to say, architecture matters a great deal more than power levels, I'd say something about all the next gen consoles being super saiyans, unlike this generation where you had Krillian, SSJ Goku and Freiza.

 

[ozfunghi]

For fuck sakes.....Nintendo better get their marketing team to pull something out of their ass. 14 months since its first reveal and we still get this kind of confusion?



http://playestate.com/top-5-highlights-about-the-new-super-mario-bros-u/#.UAa_JWt5mK2

Actually... this would be possible if you take the console in the car and plug it into the cigarette lighter?

 

[MadeInBeats]

Actually... this would be possible if you take the console in the car and plug it into the cigarette lighter?

The future of Pimp My Ride.

 

[Donnie]

If Sony designs the next Final Fantasy ground up for the PS4 they are really really stupid.

I assume you mean Square, and I agree I doubt they'll focus to much on any one platform this time.

 

[schuelma]

I assume you mean Square, and I agree I doubt they'll focus to much on any one platform this time.

Ha, yup.

 

[anothercreativename]

So does anyone know when this EA Sports event is suppose to start?

 

[schuelma]

So does anyone know when this EA Sports event is suppose to start?

I would assume it is on the west coast and so will probably be at the earliest late afternoon EST. Probably a while.

 

[TunaLover]

I forgot to mention that RawMeatCowboy posted this and I didn't see it mentioned.

Wii U O-Live?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxa3kBgr1pw&feature=player_detailpage#t=724s

I didn't know that it had online multiplayer, did you play as "enemy" zombi after you die?

 

[Pineconn]

I have a feeling that O-Live is just what they called Miiverse before it was, well, called Miiverse.

Shit.

I meant to quote Donnie.

Bahahahaha. It took great control not to burst out laughing at work.

So does anyone know when this EA Sports event is suppose to start?

My apologies that I cannot help with the time, but I hope that we get to see something running on Wii U resources. An EA Sports dev said that they were serious about Madden on Wii U, so it'll be nice if they can deliver. I wouldn't be against buying a new one (the latest I own is Madden 97 for the Sega Genesis, haha).

 

[Nibel]

 

[schuelma]

Ha perfect

 

[Earendil]

You mean to tell me that developers were not even able to use the DSP properly in the dev kits until 2 days ago??? No wonder they were having CPU issues.......goodness gracious.

Not necessarily. wsippel was only speaking for that particular middleware solution. Not all devs are using it as they may have their own audio system.

Thank you.

You are being a gentleman about this which I greatly appreciate and respect.

I would not normally have reacted in that way to such a comment but it really pushed my button yesterday.

However, after sleeping on it, I came to a realisation that should [hopefully] make it less likely that I would react in such a way; which I would not have come to otherwise.

So from that perspective I am indebted to you; thank you .

No hard feelings I trust?

No hard feelings whatsoever.

 

[Lyude77]

For all the hand wringing going on right now about marketing, etc., I suspect Wii U is going to very well at launch and most of this will be forgotten.

NSMB U is really being underestimated I think, and I do think the market is ready for a new console.

Agreed. NSMB is always underestimated. Maybe if NSMB2 and NSMBU both sell over 20 million, people will see that they're huge sellers, but I doubt it.

 

[specialguy]

I would only feel safe saying that 1 title in the entire history of console gaming has used all of a console's power,

There's really no such thing. More optimization is always possible, in contrast, even a crap trivial function (EG, furmark on PC) could probably max a consoles ALU's more than any game, but so what if it doesnt output anything useful?

Though, titles like Halo 4 are probably getting reasonably close to using all the power that can be expected.

Then again the limiting factor many times now is manpower. A 1,000 person team could probably eke 5-10% more than the best so far on current consoles, it just wouldn't be worth it.

 

[specialguy]

Shit.

I meant to quote Donnie.




I am fairly confident in saying that regardless of any apples/oranges argument the processing power and graphical capabilities gap between the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 is notably smaller than what the same gap will be between the Wii U and PlayStation 4 / Xbox 720.

I am not convinced. And besides that, I'd argue it doesnt matter all that much.

Imagine Wii was 50, 75% more powerful than it was in reality. Would it have garnered more 3rd party support? I'd argue, not really.

I used to argue Nintendo should have equipped Wii with a X1600XT GPU. A nice, very featured, fast, cheap, GPU of the time, that would have ran circles around Hollywood, but still not challenged RSX/Xenos. But I have to admit in my heart of hearts, I realized it probably would have made no difference except cost Nintendo more money.

You need to be in the ballpark. Even a modest 30% less powerful is probably a death sentence imo.