Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!

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Speaking of Project CARS, the Wii U logo isn't up on the main page anymore.

Well, I think that, along with the absence of a Wii U logo from the newest Darksiders II trailer, thoroughly debunks any speculation that Nintendo doesn't have absurdly restrictive NDAs in place. There certainly is some legitimate cause for concern about the platform's multiplatform support, but at least wait for E3* before freaking out...

*or alternately, explicit disconfirmation of Wii U versions for more late 2012/2013 multiplatform titles
 
Well, I think that, along with the absence of a Wii U logo from the newest Darksiders II trailer, thoroughly debunks any speculation that Nintendo doesn't have absurdly restrictive NDAs in place. There certainly is some legitimate cause for concern about the platform's multiplatform support, but at least wait for E3 before freaking out...

Now now, I wasn't saying it was canned. I'm pretty sure Nintendo is being strict as all hell, and won't let anyone show the Wii U logo in a trailer or a picture 'till they say "Go ahead, we don't give a fuck anymore"
Either that or the Wii U logo isn't final...lol

PS: Whens that investors meeting? Tonight or tomorrow in the morning? (EST)
 
If the rumours are true about rough parity between Nintendo and Microsoft, and I can see that being the case, then it basically kneecaps Sony. Especially if they are running later, which they probably are.

As far as Microsoft is concerned, their battle was won this generation. Everything was thrown at the 360 to stop Sony gaining dominance of the living room. It worked better than they could have hoped, and reversed the previous generation. Their focus has always been services and content delivery, locking people into Live. All they have to do is reinforce it now, and they have Kinect as their other angle. They don't need to repeat the same approach as last time, their battle has been won.

Nintendo's priority is just to maintain parity with the others, so they inherit all the 3rd party games they missed out on this time. And if the rumours turn out true then they were obviously pretty clued-up on what direction Microsoft would take. Nintendo will have the tablet to define themselves, if they can solidify all that with a killer-app and get the message across simply, plus their natural strength of 1st party games.

There is no desire from publishers to sky-rocket the costs of development any more than needed, this generation has been damaging enough. The risks are getting too high. So with Nintendo and Microsoft drawing the battle line, it puts Sony in an impossible position. If they come to market later, higher-specs won't have much impact because the market has changed and games will be developed for the easiest common denominator. Plus the systems will most likely be cheaper, and have been on the market a lot longer. Especially in the case of Nintendo.

So it puts Sony in a difficult position of how to differentiate the PS4. They don't have the Wii or Kinect to play off, Move has bombed, and going the high-spec route later is a very high-risk strategy without any guarantee of reward.

It's a pincer-movement by Nintendo/Microsoft.
 
Ok everyone,
I came accross that one here.
http://www.nintengen.com/2012/01/speculation-wii-u-gpu-vs-xbox-720-gpu.html
But if that is true what is written there and even if the performance differs a bit in real gaming...
Then the gpu choosen by Nintendo is very powerful isn't it??
Then we dont need to worry or?
Why is that (if true) that the performance of a newer gpu can be worse than the one of an older??
I'm confused with that...

That site is likely using GAF as their source...
 
No, they will probably be completely different. Even if the Wii U chip isn't going to be different, then definitely the Next Xbox chip will be. The comparison is useless. Development hardware is not the same as final console hardware. And the Next Xbox doesn't even have development hardware yet!

ok, consoles are based on some stuff (GPU/CPU).
Based on means the manufacturers build something around or out of it, right?!
So if I read here that the WiiU GPU is based on a RV770
-> the RV770 is used in the HD4850 <-
it means for me that if I try to find something out about the stuff if not getting any information from Nintendo, I look out for things that are there ""HD4850""!!

So a comparisson of PC components that are rumored to be used, can give me a first idea.
And with that dreams will come up how they will probably customize it...
 
The HD4850 comparison is sort of justified, it's probably just inaccurate. The HD6670 comparison for the next Xbox is probably very far from the truth, however.
 
Sorry to ask this again, but I didn't get a reply last time...

anyone know when the investor relations conference is? I know its Thursday Japan-time, but is it morning or afternoon?

9am Morning = midnight UK-time / around 5pm-7pm for US GAF

Just wondering if I'm staying up late tonight or getting up to a bounty of news and/or disappointaton
 
Sorry to ask this again, but I didn't get a reply last time...

anyone know when the investor relations conference is? I know its Thursday Japan-time, but is it morning or afternoon?

9am Morning = midnight UK-time / around 5pm-7pm for US GAF

Just wondering if I'm staying up late tonight or getting up to a bounty of news and/or disappointaton
if it's on thursday morning in japan, then it's wednesday night eastern time, that's all I know.
 
ok, consoles are based on some stuff (GPU/CPU).
Based on means the manufacturers build something around or out of it, right?!
So if I read here that the WiiU GPU is based on a RV770
-> the RV770 is used in the HD4850 <-
it means for me that if I try to find something out about the stuff if not getting any information from Nintendo, I look out for things that are there ""HD4850""!!

So a comparisson of PC components that are rumored to be used, can give me a first idea.
And with that dreams will come up how they will probably customize it...

There's nothing at all to say that WiiU is based on the RV770, only that earlier development kits used a RV770 based GPU.
 
Well, I think that, along with the absence of a Wii U logo from the newest Darksiders II trailer, thoroughly debunks any speculation that Nintendo doesn't have absurdly restrictive NDAs in place. There certainly is some legitimate cause for concern about the platform's multiplatform support, but at least wait for E3* before freaking out...

*or alternately, explicit disconfirmation of Wii U versions for more late 2012/2013 multiplatform titles
The Wii U logo in DQX site still there, how can we explain that?
 
Sorry to ask this again, but I didn't get a reply last time...

anyone know when the investor relations conference is? I know its Thursday Japan-time, but is it morning or afternoon?

9am Morning = midnight UK-time / around 5pm-7pm for US GAF

Just wondering if I'm staying up late tonight or getting up to a bounty of news and/or disappointaton

Earnings release: around 3 AM EST tomorrow

Investor briefing: around 9-10 PM EST tomorrow (may be live-tweeted by @gibbogame, covered by andriasang based on JP media reports)

Release of English transcript of Iwata's presentation: morning 1/27 EST

English transcript of Q & A - early-to-mid-next week

The Wii U logo in DQX site still there, how can we explain that?

Iwata was at the press conference in September, so that's all the explanation needed - it's still the only Wii U game to be properly announced since E3, after all.
 
If the rumours are true about rough parity between Nintendo and Microsoft, and I can see that being the case, then it basically kneecaps Sony. Especially if they are running later, which they probably are.

As far as Microsoft is concerned, their battle was won this generation. Everything was thrown at the 360 to stop Sony gaining dominance of the living room. It worked better than they could have hoped, and reversed the previous generation. Their focus has always been services and content delivery, locking people into Live. All they have to do is reinforce it now, and they have Kinect as their other angle. They don't need to repeat the same approach as last time, their battle has been won.

Nintendo's priority is just to maintain parity with the others, so they inherit all the 3rd party games they missed out on this time. And if the rumours turn out true then they were obviously pretty clued-up on what direction Microsoft would take. Nintendo will have the tablet to define themselves, if they can solidify all that with a killer-app and get the message across simply, plus their natural strength of 1st party games.

There is no desire from publishers to sky-rocket the costs of development any more than needed, this generation has been damaging enough. The risks are getting too high. So with Nintendo and Microsoft drawing the battle line, it puts Sony in an impossible position. If they come to market later, higher-specs won't have much impact because the market has changed and games will be developed for the easiest common denominator. Plus the systems will most likely be cheaper, and have been on the market a lot longer. Especially in the case of Nintendo.

So it puts Sony in a difficult position of how to differentiate the PS4. They don't have the Wii or Kinect to play off, Move has bombed, and going the high-spec route later is a very high-risk strategy without any guarantee of reward.

It's a pincer-movement by Nintendo/Microsoft.
Don't underestimate Sony.
Nintendo makes shoulder buttons, Sony makes dual shoulder buttons.
Nintendo makes analog stick, Sony makes dual analogs with stick click.
Nintendo makes rumble, Sony makes Dual Shock.
Nintendo makes Wii waggle with wired nunchuck, Sony makes Move with better precision and wireless nunchuck.
Nintendo makes resistive touch gaming, Sony makes dual capacitive touch gaming.
Etc.
Sony is expert at optimizing what others have done before them. It won't always work when it comes to sales, but technically they're always awesome. And launching late, in 2014 or later, might be just what they need. With the best hardware, new Move tech, awesome first party games, and some tech similar to 720 and WiiU with better optimization - then I don't think it will matter much that they're the last one out if the gate.
 
Don't underestimate Sony.
Nintendo makes shoulder buttons, Sony makes dual shoulder buttons.
Nintendo makes analog stick, Sony makes dual analogs with stick click.
Nintendo makes rumble, Sony makes Dual Shock.
Nintendo makes Wii waggle with wired nunchuck, Sony makes Move with better precision and wireless nunchuck.
Nintendo makes resistive touch gaming, Sony makes dual capacitive touch gaming.
Etc.
Sony is expert at optimizing what others have done before them. It won't always work when it comes to sales, but technically they're always awesome. And launching late, in 2014 or later, might be just what they need. With the best hardware, new Move tech, awesome first party games, and some tech similar to 720 and WiiU with better optimization - then I don't think it will matter much that they're the last one out if the gate.


Copying ?
 
Don't underestimate Sony.
Nintendo makes shoulder buttons, Sony makes dual shoulder buttons.
Nintendo makes analog stick, Sony makes dual analogs with stick click.
Nintendo makes rumble, Sony makes Dual Shock.
Nintendo makes Wii waggle with wired nunchuck, Sony makes Move with better precision and wireless nunchuck.
Nintendo makes resistive touch gaming, Sony makes dual capacitive touch gaming.
Etc.
Sony is expert at stealing what others have done before them then claiming to have been working on it years before. It won't always work when it comes to sales, but technically they're always awesome. And launching late, in 2014 or later, might be just what they need. With the best hardware, new Move tech, awesome first party games, and some tech similar to 720 and WiiU with better optimization - then I don't think it will matter much that they're the last one out if the gate.
fixed.
 
Wow, I guess Nintendo really has NDA's all over the place if the Wii U logo at Project C.A.R.S. really did disapear.

Does this mean we can start hype training about new title announcements from the quarterly report?

the answer is yes, but that doesn't mean there'll be any announcements
 
Don't underestimate Sony.
Nintendo makes shoulder buttons, Sony makes dual shoulder buttons.
Nintendo makes analog stick, Sony makes dual analogs with stick click.
Nintendo makes rumble, Sony makes Dual Shock.
Nintendo makes Wii waggle with wired nunchuck, Sony makes Move with better precision and wireless nunchuck.
Nintendo makes resistive touch gaming, Sony makes dual capacitive touch gaming.
Etc.
Sony is expert at optimizing what others have done before them. It won't always work when it comes to sales, but technically they're always awesome. And launching late, in 2014 or later, might be just what they need. With the best hardware, new Move tech, awesome first party games, and some tech similar to 720 and WiiU with better optimization - then I don't think it will matter much that they're the last one out if the gate.

Nintendo makes Super Smash Bros, Sony makes Title Fight.
Now what we see here, is that Sony must follow in Nintendo's footsteps by copying Nintendo's ideas.
One could say that "you don't get far in the industry without cutting off a few limbs stealing some ideas." But that person is a sociopath and you shouldn't listen to them.
 
Nintendo makes Super Smash Bros, Sony makes Title Fight.
Now what we see here, is that Sony must follow in Nintendo's footsteps by copying Nintendo's ideas.
One could say that "you don't get far in the industry without cutting off a few limbs stealing some ideas." But that person is a sociopath and you shouldn't listen to them.

Nintendo has stated their secrecy is due to competitors stealing ideas.
My feeling is that the Wii Relax announcement was to throw Sony and MS off.
And I think the tablet is only a piece of the puzzle regarding WiiU.
 
Nintendo has stated their secrecy is due to competitors stealing ideas.
My feeling is that the Wii Relax announcement was to throw Sony and MS off.
And I think the tablet is only a piece of the puzzle regarding WiiU.

Wii Relax was then copied by Ubisoft (you remember O.Zen?), but that just disappeared like Wii Relax.
 
Nintendo has stated their secrecy is due to competitors stealing ideas.
My feeling is that the Wii Relax announcement was to throw Sony and MS off.
And I think the tablet is only a piece of the puzzle regarding WiiU.
Do tell. Do you think they have some other a e up their sleeve? Hardware? Software?
 
The CPU won't have access to the GPU's eDRAM, unless they're on a SoC, and even then it would be an utterly bizarre decision to have some sort of combined managed cache/frame buffer thing going on, basically the opposite direction Nintendo should be going with making the console simple to code for.

Posts I've seen in the past on B3D seem to prefer having the eDRAM be flexible like that as opposed to what you're suggesting.

I also wouldn't read too much into whether Nintendo have said anything about particular aspects of the cache or not. Cache is automatically managed in hardware, so there's no immediate need to know the particulars of it when programming for the chip. Knowing about the existence of a shared cache is handy when it comes to multi-threaded code, but other than that it's not as important for devs to know compared to clock speeds, threadedness, memory bandwidth, etc.

Maybe so, but considering the organization of the cache I'd assume that is also important for devs to know for their code.

As I say it's entirely possible that the CPU has 3MB of shared L2 eDRAM cache, which is asymmetrically distributed to give one of the cores low-latency access to perhaps 1.5 MB of it, and the other two low-latency access to 768kB each. It's also possible that IBM have reduced the latency of their eDRAM since the POWER7 to negate the need for any SRAM. This would fit entirely within the reports we've heard, it would just be a little disappointing from my point of view, given the densities that eDRAM is able to achieve, and comments like "lots of eDRAM" that we heard about the CPU when the console was unveiled.

Well there's been no indications of the cache being shared. Only that each core has it's own, one core has more than the other two, and the total amount is 3MB.

And to take a page from that poster from B3D from awhile back, 3MB is a lot of eDRAM when considering there was none in the previous consoles. Unless the way the article wrote that comment throws that comment out of context and in reality means the CPU can access that 32MB also.

DDR3, the absolute fastest on wikipedia (DDR 2133) has a transfer rate of ~17GB/s if I'm understanding right (and somehow I doubt Nintendo will go with bleeding edge, but lets say they do). Now if you go dual channel you'd have ~34 GB/s, again if I'm doing it right.

360 has ~20GB/s but has the EDRAM setup, PS3 has ~40GB/s between two busses (no EDRAM), and HD 7970 has 264 GB/s. It seems to me like Wii U bandwidth would be firmly in this generation then if so.



R700 obviously comes from the 01.net rumors and are credible, the question to me is whether RV730 or one of the beefier two RV740 or 770. I believe in RV730 until convinced otherwise. So on that note, no offense but could you point me too lherre's post on the matter? I trust bgassasin's source somewhat, but only somewhat. I trust lherre a lot though.

Source(s). :)

And why do you keep referring to the 7970? That GPU is totally irrelevant.

Here's the rundown. Back around E3 and before we had IGN going with a 4850, wsippel being told a 4830, and that article I mentioned indicating a 4870. That's three different sources all hitting on essentially the same GPU class.

Your RV730 is based on what? A speculated guess made by Digital Foundry looking at a video of an unpolished tech demo on early hardware. Honestly there's no reason to try to convince you otherwise because you choose to stick to the weakest bit of proof out there when much stronger proof shows otherwise.
 
If the rumours are true about rough parity between Nintendo and Microsoft, and I can see that being the case, then it basically kneecaps Sony. Especially if they are running later, which they probably are.

As far as Microsoft is concerned, their battle was won this generation. Everything was thrown at the 360 to stop Sony gaining dominance of the living room. It worked better than they could have hoped, and reversed the previous generation. Their focus has always been services and content delivery, locking people into Live. All they have to do is reinforce it now, and they have Kinect as their other angle. They don't need to repeat the same approach as last time, their battle has been won.
More of a moral victory than anything. The goal of stopping Sony from gaining dominance in the living room implied that they would have it instead. They failed at that and now need a whole new approach to go against Nintendo. This roaming target without their own firm foundation will leave them always playing catch up to someone.
 
You know, thinking about it, it's not completely impossible that the Wii U ends up more powerful than Microsoft's next console. Very unlikely, yes, but not quite impossible.

What got me thinking about it were the repeated rumours of the CPU/GPU of the next XBox being a SoC (System on a Chip). I'm not taking too much heed to the current round of rumours, but it's interesting to consider.

First off, we have to think about why MS got in the console race in the first place. It wasn't because they love videogames, or even that they particularly wanted to be in the videogames business, it was because they wanted to get into the living room. The Xbox was their best chance of being able to get a Microsoft box into people's living rooms, and hence they were willing to sink billions into the project.

With the XBox360, they have, to a large part, achieved that goal. The XBox platform is now strong enough that they can use it to develop the project's original purpose, and reposition the next model as a multimedia/entertainment hub for the living room. The idea of using a SoC fits into this. SoCs, due to thermal limitations, are ill-suited to chasing very high performance when compared to discrete CPU/GPUs. They are however cheaper, they have lower power consumption and they can fit in smaller casings. This fits a strategy where Microsoft release two very different models of the new XBox:

- A small, low cost unit with no optical drive, no hard drive, some flash memory and a Kinect bundled in (but no traditional controller). This would be marketed as a Kinect-controlled entertainment hub, with the ability to stream movies, TV shows and music, and play downloadable Kinect games.

- A larger more expensive model with optical drive, hard drive, traditional controller and Kinect, and B/C with the XBox360. This would be the "gamer" model, more like people are expecting.

Sometime before or around the launch of the new console, MS would introduce a new media streaming brand/service, pushed heavily across Windows 8, Windows Phone 8 and the new XBox. The first model would be their attempt at replicating the success of the Wii, and using that as a lever to push their new content service. The second model would be there so that they can hang onto the core gamer fan base they've built over the years. Importantly, though, they'd both be based on the same internals. The use of a single SoC across both lines, produced at very high volumes, would allow them to bring the price of the first model down as much as possible to try to hit the mass market, perhaps as low as a loss-leading $250. The second model would have perhaps a higher amount of RAM, but the same CPU/GPU combo nonetheless.

On this strategy, attempting to put out a low-cost SoC based device with a Kinect bundled in, Microsoft could actually end up with a console which isn't as powerful as the Wii U, even if they do launch a year later than it.

Of course, I don't actually expect this to pan out, but it is an interesting scenario. It's particularly interesting when you consider what Microsoft's broader intentions are. They're not fighting Nintendo over the future of motion gaming, and they're not fighting Sony over the future of console horsepower. They're fighting Apple over the future of the living room, and the XBox is pretty much just a pawn in that game.
 
You know, thinking about it, it's not completely impossible that the Wii U ends up more powerful than Microsoft's next console. Very unlikely, yes, but not quite impossible.

If I could, I'd gamble everything I own on the Wii U being weaker than the next Microsoft and Sony systems.
 
You know, thinking about it, it's not completely impossible that the Wii U ends up more powerful than Microsoft's next console. Very unlikely, yes, but not quite impossible.

No, it's impossible.
 
I see this is a circle jerk of Nintendo fans. Wowzer.

Emperor-Palpatine.jpg


Gooood. Let the hate flow through you.
 
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