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[M-PG71C]

I know this, it has been six years since we had a Nintendo console launch. I'm ready.

I need some Nintendo HD, now. I absolutely cannot wait to see what they can do with the power they have in their hands now. Both interface and graphics.

(And hopefully, we get a damn Pikmin game at launch. MAKE IT HAPPEN!)

 

[AceBandage]

I'd say Pikmin 3 is a good bet for launch, or near launch.
It's been in development for a long while.

 

[bgassassin]

"Nintendo."

Maybe it's Myst.

Am I doing it right?

 

[Christine]

someone explain the MYST joke

 

[AceBandage]

Maybe it's Myst.

Am I doing it right?

No, needs to be an image and then a question.
D:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=30718128#post30718128

 

[Azure J]

Marc Diana supposedly told Game Watch that Wii U's GPU was beyond 1TFLOP.

Who's that and is he credible at all?

[/totally hopes he isn't met with a facepalm/is just a little out of the loop with regards to names]

 

[AceBandage]

Who's that and is he credible at all?

[/totally hopes he isn't met with a facepalm/is just a little out of the loop with regards to names]

He's the marketing director for AMD (who are making the Wii U's GPU).

 

[Instro]

Who's that and is he credible at all?

[/totally hopes he isn't met with a facepalm/is just a little out of the loop with regards to names]

AMD guy I believe.

damn, beaten.

 

[watershed]

He's the marketing director for AMD (who are making the Wii U's GPU).

So that's good news if true?

 

[AceBandage]

So that's good news if true?

Beyond a Tera Flop would put it in a very good position, yes.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Honestly isn't TFLOPS something of a useless number?

 

[TheCongressman1]

Its just the rumor of the Wii U being 5x stronger then the current generation from IGN. But sure...

You act as if I'm crazy for asking, but thanks.

 

[EloquentM]

Are the game cube era engineer wizards at Nintendo designing wiiu

 

[AceBandage]

Are the game cube era engineer wizards at Nintendo designing wiiu

No, just the crazy guy that designed the PS3.

 

[bgassassin]

No, needs to be an image and then a question.
D:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=30718128#post30718128

Ok. So this the new "What is the orange port for?" then.



And yeah that's who Marc Diana is and it was from this article back around E3.

By the way, say system RADEON HD4000, but does not have to RADEON HD4890 high-end RADEON HD4350 low-end AMD and it is beyond the 1TFLOPS performance arithmetic I had information from another system, in the specifications middle RADEON HD4000 series instead of the range class may be close to high-end systems based perhaps RADEON HD4800.

But if someone could better translate that, it would be more than welcomed.

 

[Azure J]

He's the marketing director for AMD (who are making the Wii U's GPU).

Well fuck me, that's pleasant to hear from someone that high up.

 

[Somnid]

Honestly isn't TFLOPS something of a useless number?

Up there with speed (x2, x3) multipliers.

 

[wsippel]

Are the game cube era engineer wizards at Nintendo designing wiiu

Some of them, yes.

 

[Omega.Blaze]

Anyone knows when GDC announces the keynotes for the event? I hope Iwata is there to do a "prelude" of the WiiU.

 

[Terrell]

I think it's Myst.

OH YOU. I seriously laughed so hard at that thread for a lot of reasons, but that moment was when I realized I needed an Off-Topic break.



So yeah, since that AMD quote was from a while ago, I still have to re-ask, especially with the new rumor about the next Xbox....

Could we be seeing a Radeon HD 5000 (Evergreen) series chip in final WiiU hardware? I want something that supports modern OpenGL and I don't know what could go into the tweaks on WiiU's GPU that could make OpenGL 4.2 support magically appear.

 

[Oddduck]

I'd say Pikmin 3 is a good bet for launch, or near launch.
It's been in development for a long while.

Yeah Pikmin 3 is basically a shoe-in for launch. And if Pikmin 3 isn't for launch, it'll for sure make it out before Christmas.

 

[JJConrad]

...

And for the last time, show me an example of where I've done this or stop putting words in my mouth. You're just going to have to accept the fact that I've repeatedly denied this and get over it.

Over the last few weeks, you've argued that Nintendo should not focus on the casual market because they can't compete with Kinect, you've also called NSMBMii, WiiU Sports, WiiU Fit, and a new HD Racer an "absolutely godawful launch lineup," and have argued why those (particularly the first two) or "any existing Nintendo franchise" would be ineffective. This isn't your first go-around. You've now backpedaled your argument down "why can't they just try" backed up by nothing but a strawman and multiple accusations of being misrepresented.

 

[bgassassin]

OH YOU. I seriously laughed so hard at that thread for a lot of reasons, but that moment was when I realized I needed an Off-Topic break.



So yeah, since that AMD quote was from a while ago, I still have to re-ask, especially with the new rumor about the next Xbox....

Could we be seeing a Radeon HD 5000 (Evergreen) series chip in final WiiU hardware? I want something that supports modern OpenGL and I don't know what could go into the tweaks on WiiU's GPU that could make OpenGL 4.2 support magically appear.

That's going to depend on the customizations. The hope would be that they'd use more modern modifications than what went into an Evergreen. And there could also be modifications that don't line up with any GPU line.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Beyond a Tera Flop would put it in a very good position, yes.

Agreed.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Said it a while ago, but the earnings release isn't on Wednesday, it's Thursday. So many people saying it's Wednesday made me confused, so I checked the IR calendar: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/schedule/index.html

I'm not seeing a time on the calendar... when is it scheduled?

9am Tokyo time is midnight tonight in the UK for example, between 5 and 7pm in the US. If it's early afternoon, then it'd be early morning in the UK, late night US.

 

[NinjaTehFish]

Chucking this here so as not to stir shit in the "other" thread but....Goddamn its as if people cant see that if we can get what we do from current gen closed boxes that anything using even remotely current parts is going provide tons of improvement over this gen for devs.
Specifically ppl saying dual or even single 6670's isn't enough for next gen, ARGHHHHHHHHH.

/End Rant

I too remember mention of outsiders doing that Zelda (and bird?) demo and Iwata not wanting to say who.

 

[Aostia]

Yeah Pikmin 3 is basically a shoe-in for launch. And if Pikmin 3 isn't for launch, it'll for sure make it out before Christmas.

I really hope you're right.
I mean: I was looking for Pikmin for awhile to play int on my Wii.
They HAVE TO launch it soon.
And, after having postponed it from the Wii to the Wii U they must show us good tabletpad use and very hi quality graphics for this new episode.

 

[MrGreencastle]

This is going to be awesome to see what Nintendo has in store for launch. Mario or Zelda, perhaps? Pikmin? Metroid?

One things for sure, it'll look awesome. Nintendo's games rarely, if ever, look bland. Hopefully "next-gen" is colourful and un-brown.

 

[Deguello]

I'm putting my thinking cap on for possible non-game software for Nintendo to make/contract for the Wii U.
The Street Demo got me thinking that you could do panorama for a whole slew of things.


Autobahn - Get a higher quality camera and a competent driver and record a really fast drive-through.

Museum Tours - Allows for people to visit famous museums like the Louvre and the Guggenheim without having to pay a lot to go. You could update the the images as the exhibits do (for another charge, of course.)

Archaeological Dig Sites - This one might be tricky, but it would be pretty neat to have a panorama view of places like Angkor Wat and those caves in Chauvet.

Lighthouse - Enjoy a seascape view with a time elapse to advance to the sunset and different seasons.

Mii Globe - Plot the locations of all your Miis that you've collected, and even have a mode where you stand up and "face" the Miis in their direction relative to you.

 

[DCKing]

To me its crazier to assume the Wii U is 5x the current gen than it is to assume the Next Box is 6 x. I think the Wii U will be closer to 3 x and Next Box a doubling of htat.

Of course the IGN article is likely selling next Xbox short a bit, but they really can't double the Wii U's likely performance with any GPU in that category.

My main worry as of now is that it's going to be a lot cheaper...

 

[sfried]

The gamecube motherboard was a work of goddamn art.

Seriously, Steve Jobs must have marveled at it.

In before Apple G4 Cube comments.

Marc Diana supposedly told Game Watch that Wii U's GPU was beyond 1TFLOP.

Edit 2: Somehow I'm not too keep on rapport with PR people. They tend to spout out...stuff all the time.

 

[MDX]

With this demo, what is Nintendo trying to tell us with the WiiU?
What will their focus be?

How does it compare to the PC games out there?
Especially assuming they used a graphics card similar to the
supposed GPU of the WiiU.

How much of this is achieved because of the CPU?

 

[Terrell]

That's going to depend on the customizations. The hope would be that they'd use more modern modifications than what went into an Evergreen. And there could also be modifications that don't line up with any GPU line.

So I can hold out hope for OpenGL 4.x then. GOOD.

This is going to be awesome to see what Nintendo has in store for launch. Mario or Zelda, perhaps? Pikmin? Metroid?

One things for sure, it'll look awesome. Nintendo's games rarely, if ever, look bland. Hopefully "next-gen" is colourful and un-brown.

I have a theory......

What would you all think about Nintendo re-defining the next-gen battleground to games with IQ/art design direction for their system vs. raw performance from the rest?

The reason I ask is because by doing that, Nintendo could have a LOT to gain, and not just with their own franchises.

3rd-parties in Japan have struggled with this generation simply because too many of them tried to follow Sony into their aping of Microsoft's fanbase, thinking it would earn them a larger piece of the North American gamer pie, and failing. We all know how that turned out, so it doesn't need repeating.

This, in my opinion, is why we see SO much good content from Japanese studios on portable machines now, because for the developers and publishers in Japan, they think that's the only place their aesthetic approach still holds relevance and can be done on the cheap to boot.

Perhaps, and I know this is a stretch, THAT is why Dragon Quest X ended up on Wii and WiiU on top of everything else. If it was just a user base thing as many DQ fans claim, a WiiU up-port is unnecessary. I think there's a lot more to it than that, and a freedom from the Western game industry's ideas of what's required visually in games to make them appealing is the key.

With Nintendo leading the way, we'll see Japanese developers take their very unique and somewhat defining contribution to artistic direction in games and refine it to perfection without ALL the next-gen bells and whistles. Basically, take what they were doing in the PS2 generation and polish it to absolute perfection. Cuz you have to admit, art direction was FANTASTIC in that gen in a lot of ways and I was sad to see it go, for the most part. Put that in 1080p with modern polish and tell me people won't queue up for it.


It's a bit out there of an idea, but I honestly think this is Nintendo's game plan: to help bring the Japanese side of the console industry back from the dead and reap every reward that comes with it.

 

[blu]

But Nintendo has never made an HD game! They cant manage to make something that could look better! Their hundreds of engineers and programmers cant possibly design an HD engine.

This dream will never be a reality!

How is shadder formed.

 

[DCKing]

How much of this is achieved because of the CPU?

None of it. Because the demo is scripted it probably could have run on a Wii CPU and still look like that when paired with the GPU.

This was all run on an early devkit, likely with the non-final GPU being underclocked. So that's the good news. The demo still had problems because there was no AA (might be a problem with the EDRAM not working or not being in the devkit) and there apparently were framedrops as well.

The early devkit might even have used a modified Xbox 360 CPU. It doesn't matter. The thing is, the CPU matters very little. Almost all graphics processing has moved to the GPU.

 

[Bumhead]

Good point, Terrell.

In a complete reversal from this gen, I can actually see the Wii U becoming the console of choice for lots and lots of people. I think Nintendo are preparing a generally more conservative approach to power than Microsoft and particularly Sony are believed to be. Obviously the system won't be a slouch graphically, but it'll probably be a "safer" development option than throwing even more money and risk at the next big step up that the PS4 might demand. I think that given all the troubles studios have experienced this gen, the Wii U might find itself becoming the preferred option for devs.

 

[MrGreencastle]

None of it. Because the demo is scripted it probably could have run on a Wii CPU and still look like that when paired with the GPU.

This was all run on an early devkit, likely with the non-final GPU being underclocked. So that's the good news. The demo still had problems because there was no AA (might be a problem with the EDRAM not working or not being in the devkit) and there apparently were framedrops as well.

The early devkit might even have used a modified Xbox 360 CPU. It doesn't matter. The thing is, the CPU matters very little. Almost all graphics processing has moved to the GPU.

Yes. People seem to forget that it's much easier (or, at least, more likely) to get the most out of hardware on a console versus more powerful PC components.

Good point, Terrell.

In a complete reversal from this gen, I can actually see the Wii U becoming the console of choice for lots and lots of people. I think Nintendo are preparing a generally more conservative approach to power than Microsoft and particularly Sony are believed to be. Obviously the system won't be a slouch graphically, but it'll probably be a "safer" development option than throwing even more money and risk at the next big step up that the PS4 might demand. I think that given all the troubles studios have experienced this gen, the Wii U might find itself becoming the preferred option for devs.

This may even be the generation where "graphics" become mostly irrelevant. As long as the machine can have decent IQ, I think art direction will be much more important, with the margin of quality between more powerful hardware skewing in the eyes of the consumer (this has happened already, to an extent).

Also, I'm not sure I would consider the Wii-U becoming the console of choice a reversal. The Wii already was the console of choice, if sales figures are a good measure of that. It's the "core" gamer crowd that will require enticing.

 

[brain_stew]

Marc Diana supposedly told Game Watch that Wii U's GPU was beyond 1TFLOP.



Image quality

Who's Marc Diana? A teraflop GPU blows past my high end estimates (and the current Xbox3 rumors lol).

 

[jump_button]

Next gen its going to be harder for MS and Sony I think we not going to see a big leap games to most they will look just a little better then what we have now, but then if they wait longer they could lose out but they not going to have that WOW look at that

Wii U get that from being first from Big N to be in HD wii owers are ready to update cant say same for PS3 and 360 owers

 

[Bumhead]

This may even be the generation where "graphics" become mostly irrelevant. As long as the machine can have decent IQ, I think art direction will be much more important, with the margin of quality between more powerful hardware skewing in the eyes of the consumer (this has happened already, to an extent).

Also, I'm not sure I would consider the Wii-U becoming the console of choice a reversal. The Wii already was the console of choice, if sales figures are a good measure of that. It's the "core" gamer crowd that will require enticing.

Yes, agreed. If a console released that offered a slight visual bump, higher image quality, full HD and an increased chance of achieving a stable 60FPS across the board, id be happy with that. I think that's a fairly modest set of expectations, should be achievable by the Wii U. Factor in Nintendo's first party design and, personally, id be absolutely fine with that for the forseeable future.

When I said "console of choice" I was referring to the "core", "traditional gamers" or however else you want to put it. The Wii sold crazy numbers but I think lots of gamers were burnt by the Wii. In my opinion, the Wii U has the potential to bring those people back.

 

[specialguy]

OH YOU. I seriously laughed so hard at that thread for a lot of reasons, but that moment was when I realized I needed an Off-Topic break.



So yeah, since that AMD quote was from a while ago, I still have to re-ask, especially with the new rumor about the next Xbox....

Could we be seeing a Radeon HD 5000 (Evergreen) series chip in final WiiU hardware? I want something that supports modern OpenGL and I don't know what could go into the tweaks on WiiU's GPU that could make OpenGL 4.2 support magically appear.

If a 4850 is in Wii U as the likes of BGassasin think, and a 6670 is in next xbox as the latest ign nonsense, then there's no doubt the Wii U will be significantly more powerful. A 4850 is 800 SP's and a 6670 is 480 SP's.


I mean, I guess that's where we're at now, the natural evolution of this thread. Sorry but I'm not buying it for a second. You can if you like.

Personally I'm sure a 6670 isn't in next box, and pretty sure less than a 4850 is in Wii U.

 

[Optical_Matrix]

Yes, agreed. If a console released that offered a slight visual bump, higher image quality, full HD and an increased chance of achieving a stable 60FPS across the board, id be happy with that. I think that's a fairly modest set of expectations, should be achievable by the Wii U. Factor in Nintendo's first party design and, personally, id be absolutely fine with that for the forseeable future.

When I said "console of choice" I was referring to the "core", "traditional gamers" or however else you want to put it. The Wii sold crazy numbers but I think lots of gamers were burnt by the Wii. In my opinion, the Wii U has the potential to bring those people back.

This is exactly why I said, in the Xbox Fusion rumour thread that next gen there needs to be a higher focus on creativity and artistic integrity. This generation has been far too focused on shallow cinematics, graphics, textures and lighting. With the next consoles looking to have relative parity across the board, I'm more interested to see unique gameplay innovations and artistic directions. There's a reason why I'm more excited about the Wii-U than I about PS4 and Xbox Fusion. Nintendo's creative and artistic genius in the realms of 1080p/60fps thresholds.....oh boy

 

[DCKing]

Who's Marc Diana? A teraflop GPU blows past my high end estimates (and the current Xbox3 rumors lol).

This seems to be the guy.

To be fair I don't think the next Xbox will be an HD6670 as that would put the GPU behind what we know of the earlier devkits of the Wii U. It could also be that they clocked that chip beyond 1 GHz however, considering it's going to be a SoC.

 

[Thraktor]

Well, for a multicore design, you probably want a level of cache which all the CPU cores can share (before hitting main memory)...

Well, an L2 cache could be shared between all cores. The eDRAM IBM uses could even do so in a way which is asymmetric in terms of latency.

I was thinking in the latter view. In my view/hypothesis, there won't be any SRAM used as cache. The L2 cache would consist only of IBM's eDRAM to keep the die size down as much as possible since one core will have decent amount of that cache.

And again Nintendo hasn't talked at all about including L3 cache. There's really no reason to pose scenarios including it since it's likely that the CPU can access the 32MB of eDRAM on the graphics LSI if necessary.

I guess I just answered this at the end of the other response. But at the same time they'll each have their own L2 cache.

The CPU won't have access to the GPU's eDRAM, unless they're on a SoC, and even then it would be an utterly bizarre decision to have some sort of combined managed cache/frame buffer thing going on, basically the opposite direction Nintendo should be going with making the console simple to code for.

I also wouldn't read too much into whether Nintendo have said anything about particular aspects of the cache or not. Cache is automatically managed in hardware, so there's no immediate need to know the particulars of it when programming for the chip. Knowing about the existence of a shared cache is handy when it comes to multi-threaded code, but other than that it's not as important for devs to know compared to clock speeds, threadedness, memory bandwidth, etc.

As I say it's entirely possible that the CPU has 3MB of shared L2 eDRAM cache, which is asymmetrically distributed to give one of the cores low-latency access to perhaps 1.5 MB of it, and the other two low-latency access to 768kB each. It's also possible that IBM have reduced the latency of their eDRAM since the POWER7 to negate the need for any SRAM. This would fit entirely within the reports we've heard, it would just be a little disappointing from my point of view, given the densities that eDRAM is able to achieve, and comments like "lots of eDRAM" that we heard about the CPU when the console was unveiled.

 

[guek]

Who's Marc Diana? A teraflop GPU blows past my high end estimates (and the current Xbox3 rumors lol).

Product Marketing Manager at AMD

 

[seady]

Even taking out 'graphics', Nintendo 'service' department is still very lacking compare to other console makers.

I don't like Xbox Live, but I gotta admit it nurture a huge community that will be hard to break apart. Similar to Facebook, when all your friends are on that single network, it's hard to move to a different network.

Nintendo :
1. Did not do anything to nurture a online community.
2. Did a horrible job at recording your online purchase / keep track of your digital library.
3. Did not do something like gamerscore or trophy kind of tallying system that makes you want to keep staying due to it being a part of your gaming record/history.

A lot of people keep stick with Live / PSN because they have all their purchases there, all their friends there, all their gaming record / gamerscore / trophy there, and in the future, all their previous game saves (due to cloud saving).

 

[guek]

Personally I'm sure a 6670 isn't in next box, and pretty sure less than a 4850 is in Wii U.

Again, why do you think a rv730 is in the wii u? Come on, give a reason.

 

[[Nintex]]

Product

Ah he probably knows...

Marketing Manager at AMD

ah, so Avatar Graphics

 

[darthdago]

What is the other thread ? Yay omg next xbox is weak piece of shit! Bump!

Then there's the other "yay Ps4 gonna be way more powerful than Xbox!" one.

they're all about power too, just like this one.

That's all we care about.

I've known this for years, the frustrating thing is how much people OBVIOUSLY know it's true yet refuse to admit it in the next breath.

Of course power is something important.
And it was important to know if WiiU has the power to display HD (1080p).
We know now that WiiU is capable of that -> only thing is will programmers use that power.

Like others said before it depends how good Nintendo market their console and how good they use the headstart.

The WiiU is probably like a baboon (power wise)
The nextBox is probably like a lion (also power wise)
In raw power that will probably mean the lion is stronger....
But the baboon is more intelligent and if using the headstart wise could be above the lion all the time....
Just see for explanaition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0L02LkpcMo

)

with the GPU, isn't it still be possible that they have put a custom RV870/Cypress like found in the HD 5850??
That GPU is also above 1TFLOP and also matches the Mhz and everything else.
And it saw market in late 2009.

 

[AceBandage]

I R Baboon?