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[bgassassin]

Is it possible that we are looking at graphical power differences between all three consoles in the range of this (below) for next generation or will it be more broad? if wii u was using a 28nm gpu what would be the TDP for something along the lines of a 7750 equivalent in power designed for the console?

Radeon HD 7750 Wii U
Radeon HD 7770 XBOX
Radeon HD 7790 PS4

If we get a 7750 or 7770 in range of power for next gen I would be very happy for all three to be in that range and ecstatic if WiiU was even 7750 equivalent

I am not even sure if it is a given that the wii GPU will be over 1200GFLOPS in performance but if it is then would that be around 5 times more graphical processing than the GPU on the XBOX 360?

What would be the Max TDP the GPU would have to be to fit in the WiiU case? if it is under 66W for GPU then something like a 7750 in power would be out of the question. What if we looked at something in the mobility range and if tweaked it up to meet a power equivalent to about 5x the xbox 360.

5870M TDP 50W 40nm 1120GFLOPS
6950M TDP 50W 40nm 1113GFLOPS

What is the concensus on what TDP the WiiU is likely to consume? how much goes into the GPU-CPU-drive and other parts?

I'm expecting ~100w for the total console. One of the times we were looking at the POWER7, blu found documentation showing the cores at around ~23w (can't remember if that included to cache for the core). Knowing Nintendo I wouldn't be shocked to see theirs at ~10w/core, and the overall CPU being ~30-35w.

As for the GPU IMO the easiest way for Nintendo to reach 1.2TFLOPs would be a part that has 960 ALUs clocked at 625Mhz. And while I'm not saying it's impossible, there's been no indication that they were going in that specific route (e.g. over 800 ALUs), but just one mention that it was over a TFLOP. I've been expecting the GPU to be a part of an LSI like what Wii had and I can see that being ~60w since I believe it will be on something smaller than 40nm.

I don't know if it was posted before but spanish game sites and blogs are reporting that Mat Atkinson, former Director of Technology in Crytek is working in Nintendo as Consultant Software Engineer.
He worked in Lionhead and Ignition.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/markatkinson99

http://www.revogamers.net/noticias/wii-u/nintendo-ficha-al-director-tecnologia-del-cryengine-3-7948.html

Apparently one of his achievements has been the adaptation of the CryEngine 3 to PS3 and Xbox 360.

Very nice find.

 

[AceBandage]

With all these various guys that nintendo has been reported to have hired, my hype just keeps building. We've waited a long time to see the various nintendo franchises we love in hd and in about 5-6 months will see them all (hopefully).

Yeah, they're getting some good WESTERN talent.
Hopefully that means Retro is going to have two teams for games now.

 

[K444WSR]

The thought of Retro being able to stretch their artistic talent on an engine similar to Cryengine is mindboggling. What they achieved in the Prime games and also DKCR, has me salivating in anticipation for their next game.

 

[Boerseun]

Retro Studios on their own isn't enough though. They really should consider taking ownership in companies like n-Space or Eurocom, i.e. people who have shown potential for greatness and would surely benefit from Nintendo's leadership. High Voltage Software are also worth a look in, in my opinion, as their Quantum 3 technology has been impressive on Wii. And they put out Conduit 2, which is a genuinely great on-line game married to a solid single-player campaign, and in general a good demonstration of HVS's strongest areas.

 

[Penguin]

Came across this and was curious, what do you think Nintendo can do to curb this type of attitude/stigma?

http://nintendoeverything.com/82009...ys-non-published-nintendo-games-dont-do-well/

“Well, we’ve already announced versions of Stranger and Munch for the Vita, but with regards to Nintendo, currently I’m not interested in working with them, or on their platform. Having developed a number of titles over the years for their various platforms, it’s become increasingly apparent that unless you are published by Nintendo you don’t tend to do very well.

 

[Exterminieren]

Came across this and was curious, what do you think Nintendo can do to curb this type of attitude/stigma?

http://nintendoeverything.com/82009...ys-non-published-nintendo-games-dont-do-well/

Ignore devs which only put out godawful shovelware on Nintendo systems and are shocked that it doesn't sell, for a start off.

 

[AceBandage]

Ignore devs which only put out godawful shovelware on Nintendo systems and are shocked that it doesn't sell, for a start off.

Seriously...
I'll never get developers/publishers that make the dumbest excuses for why they suck.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Came across this and was curious, what do you think Nintendo can do to curb this type of attitude/stigma?

http://nintendoeverything.com/82009...ys-non-published-nintendo-games-dont-do-well/

lol wut...they haven't developed a single game for any of Nintendos systems..

 

[Door2Dawn]

This bullshit how we have to wait this long.

 

[brochiller]

Ignore devs which only put out godawful shovelware on Nintendo systems and are shocked that it doesn't sell, for a start off.

Who's fault is it that they can't compete with Nintendo games now?

 

[AceBandage]

This bullshit how we have to wait this long.

Wait this long for what?

 

[Penguin]

Who's fault is it that they can't compete with Nintendo games now?

Who's fault is it indeed?

I mean the blame can be spread in so many directions, but at the end of the day its really up to Nintendo in some fashion to resolve it.

But yeah looking at the company's profile.. doesn't look like ever worked with Nintendo.

And the CEO himself.. looks like have to go back a few generations for when he had a game published on Nintendo's consoles.

 

[Door2Dawn]

Wait this long for what?

for E3

 

[specialguy]

Ignore devs which only put out godawful shovelware on Nintendo systems and are shocked that it doesn't sell, for a start off.

Yeah, it's all the devs fault, none Nintendo's.

 

[Kokonoe]

And I personally would like to see the dualshock evolve beyond its 1990s design.

Which is why the regression back to dual-analog for Nintendo as their default controller is actually a step back, in my opinion. (we all have those, see?)

It's not just Dualshock. PC, On Live, 360, all controllers now utilize this setup. It isn't like previous generations where controllers are different all over the place.
I understand Nintendo is about innovation, but this isn't really an innovation, it's essentially what they did with the DS.

There's a reason they made the Classic Controller Pro, and Circle Pad Pro.
I'm just saying for people like me who have no interest in this stuff, they should make a standard controller.

 

[The Boat]

Who's fault is it indeed?

I mean the blame can be spread in so many directions, but at the end of the day its really up to Nintendo in some fashion to resolve it.

But yeah looking at the company's profile.. doesn't look like ever worked with Nintendo.

And the CEO himself.. looks like have to go back a few generations for when he had a game published on Nintendo's consoles.

What exactly can Nintendo do, other than market 3rd party games out of their own pocket? Should Nintendo make worse games? Devs that don't put thought, work, talent and even money behind their efforts can't expect Nintendo levels of success and there isn't a lot that Nintendo can do about it.

 

[wsippel]

lol wut...they haven't developed a single game for any of Nintendos systems..

The guy who enlightened us did. High quality stuff. I wonder why it didn't sell millions.

 

[AceBandage]

Yeah, it's all the devs fault, none Nintendo's.

Was Nintendo publishing their games?

 

[HylianTom]

"Third party games tend to not do well on Nintendo consoles."

So.. is this going to be the Standard Excuse for Skipping Nintendo This Generation? It's pretty weak, but we should be used to bullshit excuses by now.

How long 'til G4 and the major core gaming websites reach consensus on it and start parroting it ad nauseam as if it were truth?

 

[royalan]

It's not just Dualshock. PC, On Live, 360, all controllers now utilize this setup. It isn't like previous generations where controllers are different all over the place.
I understand Nintendo is about innovation, but this isn't really aa innovation, it's essentially what they did with the DS.

There's a reason they made the Classic Controller Pro, and Circle Pad Pro.
I'm just saying for people like me who have no interest in this stuff, they should make a standard controller.

Not to mention 3rd parties.

Can you imagine if Capcom brought their Street Fighter series to the Wii U? Based on what we know now, in order to do local multiplier, one person would get to use the traditional controls of the upad, while a second player would have to either use the wiimote, or the classic controller pro...plugged into the wiimote. Neither are very elegant solutions.

I really want to see what Nintendo's solution to local multiplayer controls will be. They can't rest with the wiimote...

 

[wsippel]

Was Nintendo publishing their games?

Publish their games? The shit this guy developed in the past is so terrible, they'd probably not even hire him as a janitor.

 

[AceBandage]

Publish their games? The shit this guy developed in the past is so terrible, they'd probably not even hire him as a janitor.

Yeah, that was my point.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

The guy who enlightened us did. High quality stuff. I wonder why it didn't sell millions.

How can we be sure Nintendo isn't behind those reviews? I would like to see Iwata try to defend this with hard evidence.

 

[jump_button]

How is Wii U pad not a standard controller was the DC pad not as well? I think Big N do right in have it from the start and not just some add on like Move and kinect or any other thing

and how is have a big screen DS a bad thing?

 

[MDX]

Err. I'm not even into all this Wii U power shit, and even I can tell this article has so many things wrong. Less power than PS3/360? Come on.

So basically WiiU will be less powerful than this generation's HD consoles because is smaller.
Hmmm... yep, makes perfect sense to me. I bet its probably weaker than the 5200.

 

[GameE]

The guy who enlightened us did. High quality stuff. I wonder why it didn't sell millions.

damn.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Came across this and was curious, what do you think Nintendo can do to curb this type of attitude/stigma?

http://nintendoeverything.com/82009...ys-non-published-nintendo-games-dont-do-well/

Wait, JAW is saying this?

The guys who put out entirely broken PC versions because they wanted it out for the Steam sale and didn't give a fuck if it was unplayable?

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

The guy who enlightened us did. High quality stuff. I wonder why it didn't sell millions.

lol thanks for that, was worth a laugh.

 

[HylianTom]

Just for grins and giggles..

If there's only one piece of advice that I could give to the managers of third party companies, it would be that a lot of times it seems that when they're putting games out on Nintendo hardware, those games are being developed by their third-string team or their fourth-string team. Maybe that's because they see those products as being unique projects or somewhat smaller-scale projects. But when Nintendo puts out a title that is designed to really support and sell its hardware, that title is always developed by one of our number one teams. And so I think that when it comes to the question of trying to compete with our software, I would really like to see the parties try to do that with their number one teams rather than with the third- or fourth-string teams.

Five years later..?

 

[AceBandage]

Just for grins and giggles..



Five years later..?

Seriously.
You get the sales you deserve for the money you put into it.

 

[specialguy]

What exactly can Nintendo do, other than market 3rd party games out of their own pocket? Should Nintendo make worse games? Devs that don't put thought, work, talent and even money behind their efforts can't expect Nintendo levels of success and there isn't a lot that Nintendo can do about it.

The reason devs dont support the Wii is simple, third party hardcore games dont sell on it. The only third party success I can think of on Wii is Just Dance, a extremely popular flimsy gimmick game worthy of Nintendo themselves (Wii fit, Wii party, Mario Kart reskinned, etc) and with Nintendo levels of sales as well.

The reasons third party hardcore games dont sell on it is because it has poor graphics. Not rocket science here.

You can blame the devs instead of Nintendo till the cows come home, the results wont change.

With the Wii U, presumably the graphics will come up to par with PS360, but the devs will probably be looking to XB3/PS4 that will likely be much more powerful (delusions aside). We already see a whole lot of lukewarm attitudes towards Wii U from third parties. Further, the tablet controller will probably scare devs off, that's the sense I get, who wants to mess with it? If I'm making COD Wii U, it's like great, now I have to figure out what the hell to do with this huge tablet, never mind, I'll just stick to PS360.

Dont blame third parties for Nintendo's bad decisions. Wii U looks like a bad, no, horrible, idea from a mile away. I guess in fairness to Nintendo, there isn't a whole lot they could do to be successful. They're kind of between a rock and a hard place.

One thing I'm pretty sure of, when Wii U comes out we're all going to be pretty disappointed in it's power level, and that's on Nintendo, nobody else. If I'm wrong, great. Prove me wrong, Nintendo, if you can.

 

[AceBandage]

The reason devs dont support the Wii is simple, third party hardcore games dont sell on it. The only third party success I can think of on Wii is Just Dance, a extremely popular flimsy gimmick game worthy of Nintendo themselves (Wii fit, Wii party, Mario Kart reskinned, etc) and with Nintendo levels of sales as well.

The reasons third party hardcore games dont sell on it is because it has poor graphics. Not rocket science here.

You can blame the devs instead of Nintendo till the cows come home, the results wont change.

With the Wii U, presumably the graphics will come up to par with PS360, but the devs will probably be looking to XB3/PS4 that will likely be much more powerful (delusions aside). We already see a whole lot of lukewarm attitudes towards Wii U from third parties. Further, the tablet controller will probably scare devs off, that's the sense I get, who wants to mess with it? If I'm making COD Wii U, it's like great, now I have to figure out what the hell to do with this huge tablet, never mind, I'll just stick to PS360.

Dont blame third parties for Nintendo's bad decisions. Wii U looks like a bad, no, horrible, idea from a mile away.

1. What third party game was released for the Wii that would have sold a lot better on the PS3/360?

2. In what way does the Wii U look like a bad idea?

 

[blu]

The reason devs dont support the Wii is simple, third party hardcore games dont sell on it. The only third party success I can think of on Wii is Just Dance, a extremely popular flimsy gimmick game worthy of Nintendo themselves (Wii fit, Wii party, Mario Kart reskinned, etc) and with Nintendo levels of sales as well.

The reasons third party hardcore games dont sell on it is because it has poor graphics. Not rocket science here.

You can blame the devs instead of Nintendo till the cows come home, the results wont change.

With the Wii U, presumably the graphics will come up to par with PS360, but the devs will probably be looking to XB3/PS4 that will likely be much more powerful (delusions aside). We already see a whole lot of lukewarm attitudes towards Wii U from third parties. Further, the tablet controller will probably scare devs off, that's the sense I get, who wants to mess with it? If I'm making COD Wii U, it's like great, now I have to figure out what the hell to do with this huge tablet, never mind, I'll just stick to PS360.

Dont blame third parties for Nintendo's bad decisions. Wii U looks like a bad, no, horrible, idea from a mile away.

Never change, specialguy.

 

[Penguin]

The reason devs dont support the Wii is simple, third party hardcore games dont sell on it. The only third party success I can think of on Wii is Just Dance, a extremely popular flimsy gimmick game worthy of Nintendo themselves (Wii fit, Wii party, Mario Kart reskinned, etc) and with Nintendo levels of sales as well.

This isn't necessarily true, but it also depends on how you describe success.

Resident Evil 4, Umbrella Chronicles, the LEGO games, Sonic games, House of the Dead, Raving Rabbids have all done terrific on the Wii at random points in its life. And that's only off the top of my head.

The Wii got so few mainstream games that people tend to just point at the ones that didn't do so hot like The Conduit or MadWorld, and use it to justify an audience not existing... and less the overall appeal of such titles.

No one will ever say the Xbox/Ps3 are weak for 3rd party titles based on the sales of Dark Void, Catherine, Vanquish, Shadows of the Damned, Bionic Commando, etc.

The reasons third party hardcore games dont sell on it is because it has poor graphics. Not rocket science here.

That accounts for one console though. This isn't just a Wii or new problem.
And this isn't exactly a new excuse either.

 

[StevieP]

The reason devs dont support the Wii is simple, third party hardcore games dont sell on it. The only third party success I can think of on Wii is Just Dance, a extremely popular flimsy gimmick game worthy of Nintendo themselves (Wii fit, Wii party, Mario Kart reskinned, etc) and with Nintendo levels of sales as well.

The reasons third party hardcore games dont sell on it is because it has poor graphics. Not rocket science here.

You can blame the devs instead of Nintendo till the cows come home, the results wont change.

With the Wii U, presumably the graphics will come up to par with PS360, but the devs will probably be looking to XB3/PS4 that will likely be much more powerful (delusions aside). We already see a whole lot of lukewarm attitudes towards Wii U from third parties. Further, the tablet controller will probably scare devs off, that's the sense I get, who wants to mess with it? If I'm making COD Wii U, it's like great, now I have to figure out what the hell to do with this huge tablet, never mind, I'll just stick to PS360.

Dont blame third parties for Nintendo's bad decisions. Wii U looks like a bad, no, horrible, idea from a mile away.

Besides the majority of post, which is a joke and easily debunkable (other consoles will be more powerful but not out of porting range, tablet still is a dual-analog pad, mario kart "reskinned" being - literally- the second highest selling game this entire generation below Wii Sports - yes, more than CoD even), let me post this for you:

Do some basic math multiplication (number of consoles sold x tie ratio) and refute it.

1. What third party game was released for the Wii that would have sold a lot better on the PS3/360?

Vanquish. Wait, nevermind that. No More Heroes would definitely sell better if they released it on PS360.

You do know that the specs for the next Xbox are not as powerful as once thought and are comparable to Wii U, right?

We don't know that just yet. We just know what thermal envelope you can expect from a next gen console released in 2012-2014 (has to be a midrange part, in other words, as no high range parts can shrink small enough to work). We also know that the all of the latest rumours and dev kit leaks point to a midrange part slightly newer than the customized GPU in Wii U. But we don't KNOW what it will be. I'm sure Microsoft is going to defy physics, however, and include a console equivalent to a 7990. Crossfired 7990s.

 

[sfried]

Dont blame third parties for Nintendo's bad decisions. Wii U looks like a bad, no, horrible, idea from a mile away.

...and yet we still don't know what it is really capable off. And there were quite many successful non-casual third party Wii games, but most of them are attributed to their quality of gameplay, which these thrid parties tend to not realize.

I guess Nintendo haters...gonna hate.

Edit: When will we get more news or has this become a GAF "There's no reason you should like Nintendo and you can't blame thrid parties" thread?

 

[EloquentM]

specialguy gets paid to troll, I know it, I'm sure of it.

 

[richiek]

With the Wii U, presumably the graphics will come up to par with PS360, but the devs will probably be looking to XB3/PS4 that will likely be much more powerful (delusions aside).

You do know that the specs for the next Xbox are not as powerful as once thought and are comparable to Wii U, right?

 

[JJConrad]

The reason devs dont support the Wii is simple, third party hardcore games dont sell on it. The only third party success I can think of on Wii is Just Dance, a extremely popular flimsy gimmick game worthy of Nintendo themselves (Wii fit, Wii party, Mario Kart reskinned, etc) and with Nintendo levels of sales as well.

The reasons third party hardcore games dont sell on it is because it has poor graphics. Not rocket science here.

You can blame the devs instead of Nintendo till the cows come home, the results wont change.

With the Wii U, presumably the graphics will come up to par with PS360, but the devs will probably be looking to XB3/PS4 that will likely be much more powerful (delusions aside). We already see a whole lot of lukewarm attitudes towards Wii U from third parties. Further, the tablet controller will probably scare devs off, that's the sense I get, who wants to mess with it? If I'm making COD Wii U, it's like great, now I have to figure out what the hell to do with this huge tablet, never mind, I'll just stick to PS360.

Dont blame third parties for Nintendo's bad decisions. Wii U looks like a bad, no, horrible, idea from a mile away.

25 million in just over 2 years... If that's the bar you're setting for success then the PS3 and 360 aren't looking so great either.

 

[HylianTom]

I guess Nintendo haters...gonna hate.

True. I just wish they'd have the balls to come out and admit their allegiances, rather than inventing paper-thin bullshit reason-of-the-month excuses.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

You do know that the specs for the next Xbox are not as powerful as once thought and are comparable to Wii U, right?

No one knows what the specs are for any upcoming system or at least, they aren't saying.

With that said, the excuses for third party developers not making games for a Nintendo system are running out.

 

[TheCongressman1]

2. In what way does the Wii U look like a bad idea?

Because it's Nintendo, apparently. I can't wait for the inevitable PStablet to see how many people act as if it's the most original and greatest idea ever.

 

[AceBandage]

Because it's Nintendo, apparently.

Seems logical.

 

[EloquentM]

that's uncharacteristic of him. Specialguy doesn't usually specialize in hit-and-run posts.

 

[royalan]

1. What third party game was released for the Wii that would have sold a lot better on the PS3/360?

Psst...

Spoiler

No More Heroes. A game that was, at the time, harolded as an example of Wii getting quality 3rd party support with real games but then went on to sell dismally on the platform. Later it was ported to the PS3 and 360...where it sold better on both platforms, and spawned a sequel.

Shame too...I was really excited for the Wii version of that game.

 

[AceBandage]

Psst...

Spoiler

No More Heroes. A game that was, at the time, harolded as an example of Wii getting quality 3rd party support with real games but then went on to sell dismally on the platform. Later it was ported to the PS3 and 360...where it sold better on both platforms, and spawned a sequel.

Shame too...I was really excited for the Wii version of that game.

Can't tell if serious...

 

[DragonSworne]

Hate to break it to developers, but just because you publish your games on another platform doesn't mean you are no longer competing against Nintendo....

I don't know about you, but my gaming cash isn't split into 360, Wii, and PS3 buckets. Any cash I have for gaming will be considered for all games out at the time.

I have bought Nintendo games instead of third parties games on 360 and PS3 a number of times, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[specialguy]

...and yet we still don't know what it is really capable off. And there were quite many successful non-casual third party Wii games, but most of them are attributed to their quality of gameplay, which these thrid parties tend to not realize.

What are successful non-casual third party Wii games?

I can think of like, Xenoblade and Last Story, those look cool, but they'll only be a niche supported by videogamephiles, the type of people that read GAF and listen to gaming podcasts and play everything on all systems. Not big sellers.

 

[wrowa]

What are successful non-casual third party Wii games?

I can think of like, Xenoblade and Last Story, those look cool, but they'll only be a niche supported by videogamephiles, the type of people that read GAF and listen to gaming podcasts and play everything on all systems. Not big sellers.

You shouldn't be talking about this topic if you can't even distinguish between 3rd party and 1st party games. Both Xenoblade (developed by a Nintendo owned studio, published by Nintendo) and Last Story (funded and published by Nintendo) aren't 3rd party games.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Psst...

Spoiler

No More Heroes. A game that was, at the time, harolded as an example of Wii getting quality 3rd party support with real games but then went on to sell dismally on the platform. Later it was ported to the PS3 and 360...where it sold better on both platforms, and spawned a sequel.

Shame too...I was really excited for the Wii version of that game.

lol wut?