Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!

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BY2K said:
But...

Nintendo has only been under the other 2 in term of power for ONE gen, because Nintendo made a gamble of Gameplay and Accessibility > Graphics and Horsepower.
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People's memories are short and six years is a long time, especially for people who got in to gaming this gen (people who got an Xbox 360 around launch in their early teens would be around college age now, for example).
 
StreetsAhead said:
People's memories are short and six years is a long time, especially for people who got in to gaming this gen (people who got an Xbox 360 around launch in their early teens would be around college age now, for example).
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Yep. And not acknowledging things outside of this gen has caused some screwed up thinking IMO about future expectations.
 
AceBandage said:
Not exactly equal, but not weak enough to matter.
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I'm starting to believe this more and more. I just can't see the logic in 720/PS4 going all out in the power direction when it's clear that consumers really don't give a shit. As long as it looks "good" on their HDTVs, they're content. If you want "fucking gorgeous", upgrade your PC.

Besides, I think this gen in 1080p with stable frame rates and no graphical updates whatsoever would be a pretty large jump in itself.
 
bgassassin said:
Yep. And not acknowledging things outside of this gen has caused some screwed up thinking IMO about future expectations.
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Indeed. I also think a lot of this is just a form of cognitive dissonance.

Many children grow up with Nintendo games - handhelds or consoles - and then 'rebel' in their teen years, and go looking for the 'Xtreme' games with guns and tits and swearing to assert their 'maturity' over people who play the same games they did as a child - teenagers are Nintendo's weakest demographic, afterall. That Nintendo was weaker this gen, in terms of graphics (important when you're 14) only served as extra ammo. Now that Xbox, current home of the Xtreme game for teens in the States might be copying Nintendo, in power-jump or controller people feel threatened.

Also, people don't like change.

(Not sure I'm articulating what I want to say very well, but I'm in the middle of translating medical documents and my brain is fried).
 
Box said:
I had no idea that people are so many Xbox fans are so appalled at the idea of a tablet controller. I thought it was really cool and actually made a lot of sense unlike the Wii Remote.

Was it because Nintendo introduced it first? I don't want to be cynical, but it's like it's ruined because Nintendo came up with it.
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Pretty much. Obviously, the ironic thing is that if Microsoft did it first, then the fans would be jumping for joy and bashing Nintendo for it. Fanboys will be fanboys.
 
Box said:
I had no idea that people are so many Xbox fans are so appalled at the idea of a tablet controller. I thought it was really cool and actually made a lot of sense unlike the Wii Remote.

Was it because Nintendo introduced it first? I don't want to be cynical, but it's like it's ruined because Nintendo came up with it.
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I do believe Nintendo announcing it first plays somewhat into those reactions.


StreetsAhead said:
Indeed. I also think a lot of this is just a form of cognitive dissonance.

Many children grow up with Nintendo games - handhelds or consoles - and then 'rebel' in their teen years, and go looking for the 'Xtreme' games with guns and tits and swearing to assert their 'maturity' over people who play the same games they did as a child - teenagers are Nintendo's weakest demographic, afterall. That Nintendo was weaker this gen, in terms of graphics (important when you're 14) only served as extra ammo. Now that Xbox, current home of the Xtreme game for teens in the States might be copying Nintendo, in power-jump or controller people feel threatened.

Also, people don't like change.

(Not sure I'm articulating what I want to say very well, but I'm in the middle of translating medical documents and my brain is fried).
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After making a thread discussing this, I came to the conclusion that the main issue is that the younger groups came up when it was being established that PS1 and on was for the "hardcore", while N64 and on was "kiddie". That affected judgment at well. I still remember some thinking PS2 was more powerful than GC because of that. Once that trend was established, new gens of gamers just accepted it as the norm. At the same time though Nintendo hasn't done too much to counter that ideology either with some of their decisions. That to me is what will make it tough for them in their direction with Wii U. They are going after a segment they never really had to begin with since they started out on PS1. Nintendo will have to pick off certain gaming groups IMO if they want to make a dent in that market.
 
Nintendo will have the best controller inputs for next gen, Wiimote Plus, classic controller, IR pointer, touchscreen. I really like they push Wiimote+, it was so under appreciated device, it only show its potential with Skyward Sword, they need include at least 1 Wiimote+ in the box.
 
BY2K said:
But...

Nintendo has only been under the other 2 in term of power for ONE gen, because Nintendo made a gamble of Gameplay and Accessibility > Graphics and Horsepower.
Click to expand...

It's just an article of faith amongst the graphics cult - Nintendo has inferior graphics. Been that way since the SNES days. It's not based on anything rational.

IMO, it has less to do with the merits of the various systems, and more to do with how "mainstream" Nintendo's image is. It also has to do with the tendency of many people to go with raw numbers when comparing systems, rather than understand how all the components interconnect with one another.
 
bgassassin said:
^ I do believe Nintendo announcing it first plays somewhat into those reactions.



After making a thread discussing this, I came to the conclusion that the main issue is that the younger groups came up when it was being established that PS1 and on was for the "hardcore", while N64 and on was "kiddie". That affected judgment at well. I still remember some thinking PS2 was more powerful than GC because of that. Once that trend was established, new gens of gamers just accepted it as the norm. At the same time though Nintendo hasn't done too much to counter that ideology either with some of their decisions. That to me is what will make it tough for them in their direction with Wii U. They are going after a segment they never really had to begin with since they started out on PS1. Nintendo will have to pick off certain gaming groups IMO if they want to make a dent in that market.
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I think you're 100% right, this perception that PS (Xbox, now) is 'hardcore, mature, adult' and Nintendo is 'Kiddie, stagnant, casual' goes back to the PS1 days and that those gamers and those that still buy into that perception will be hard to convince because they never had them in the first place.

I think it's an uphill battle and I think Nintendo is going to need, not just ports of those games that sell to that market (although, long-term, that might help to shift perceptions), they need exclusivity or superiority in games that appeal to those people. In other words, pander a little bit to that 'dudebro' market.
 
StreetsAhead said:
I think you're 100% right, this perception that PS (Xbox, now) is 'hardcore, mature, adult' and Nintendo is 'Kiddie, stagnant, casual' goes back to the PS1 days and that those gamers and those that still buy into that perception will be hard to convince because they never had them in the first place.
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Goes back to the MD/Genesis days. I mean, Mortal Kombat with blood, NHL '94, Madden '95...
 
I remember those old Sega commercials.
I hated them.
Especially those stupid Blast Processing commercials.
FUCK YOU SEGA AND YOUR STUPID HEDGEHOG TOO!
 
TunaLover said:
Nintendo will have the best controller inputs for next gen, Wiimote Plus, classic controller, IR pointer, touchscreen. I really like they push Wiimote+, it was so under appreciated device, it only show its potential with Skyward Sword, they need include at least 1 Wiimote+ in the box.
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I actually like the fact that there are plenty of control schemes it makes the games more interesting that way and helps you gain more skill with your fingers haveing all these different experiences. Kind of like how the big arcades used to be. I mean we have multi touchscreen controls, stylus controls, mouse and Keyboard, dual analog, arcade sticks, steering wheels, motion controls, motion controls with pointing, kinect style controls. classic digital controls. I still use all of these setups for different games I enjoy so I don't see any standard that should be adhered to since it should depend on each game what the best control method should be.

I think people are too caught up with this idea of an all in one device that does everything these days. variety+novelty is always good keep old play styles while introducing new ones helps propel new gaming mechanics
 
Box said:
I had no idea that people are so many Xbox fans are so appalled at the idea of a tablet controller. I thought it was really cool and actually made a lot of sense unlike the Wii Remote.

Was it because Nintendo introduced it first? I don't want to be cynical, but it's like it's ruined because Nintendo came up with it.
Click to expand...

Funny enough, it reminds me of American politics: Politician from Party A introduces Bill #1 in Congress. Bill #1 would be fully supported by Party B's platform, but because it came from a politician from Party A, it will likely find little-to-no-support among Party B's ranks.
 
TunaLover said:
Nintendo will have the best controller inputs for next gen, Wiimote Plus, classic controller, IR pointer, touchscreen. I really like they push Wiimote+, it was so under appreciated device, it only show its potential with Skyward Sword, they need include at least 1 Wiimote+ in the box.
Click to expand...

Yepp, I hope for that, too. I also hope they upgrade their Wiimotes again. They're near perfect now, but I'd just really like to see it happen.
 
StreetsAhead said:
I think you're 100% right, this perception that PS (Xbox, now) is 'hardcore, mature, adult' and Nintendo is 'Kiddie, stagnant, casual' goes back to the PS1 days and that those gamers and those that still buy into that perception will be hard to convince because they never had them in the first place.

I think it's an uphill battle and I think Nintendo is going to need, not just ports of those games that sell to that market (although, long-term, that might help to shift perceptions), they need exclusivity or superiority in games that appeal to those people. In other words, pander a little bit to that 'dudebro' market.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I doubt Nintendo can get much of that crowd. There's no way Nintendo are going to be "more hardcore" than the 360 or PS3, and people have invested a lot in their gamertags, trophies and friends lists to switch to another platform. The graphics, while better than 360/PS3 may not be so far ahead to get people to switch, especially with new consoles on the horizon in the next year or so.

Now that said, I do think they may have a bit of a chance to recapture some people they LOST last generation - those that used to be Nintendo fans - but those who grew up on PS and XBox will be pretty set in their ways I imagine.

About the only way I can see it changing is if Nintendo throw money at developers for massive exclusives like, say Diablo III year long exclusive on Wii U. This would give gamers basically zero choice but to get a Wii U. Of course, we know things like this will NEVER happen.
 
AzaK said:
About the only way I can see it changing is if Nintendo throw money at developers for massive exclusives like, say Diablo III year long exclusive on Wii U. This would give gamers basically zero choice but to get a Wii U. Of course, we know things like this will NEVER happen.
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I doubt Square-Enix let Wii U get the first HD Dragon Quest out of the goodness of their hearts.
 
IceDoesntHelp said:
Did Sonic just touch a no-no place?
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SAsMX.gif
 
AzaK said:
To be honest, I doubt Nintendo can get much of that crowd. There's no way Nintendo are going to be "more hardcore" than the 360 or PS3, and people have invested a lot in their gamertags, trophies and friends lists to switch to another platform. The graphics, while better than 360/PS3 may not be so far ahead to get people to switch, especially with new consoles on the horizon in the next year or so.

Now that said, I do think they may have a bit of a chance to recapture some people they LOST last generation - those that used to be Nintendo fans - but those who grew up on PS and XBox will be pretty set in their ways I imagine.

About the only way I can see it changing is if Nintendo throw money at developers for massive exclusives like, say Diablo III year long exclusive on Wii U. This would give gamers basically zero choice but to get a Wii U. Of course, we know things like this will NEVER happen.
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First, I'd guess that Nintendo doesn't even want that crowd. Catering to them alienates the rest of the market in various ways, because that crowd is going to be turned off by Nintendo's most valuable IPs even existing on the same platform. The only way to get them back would be to downplay what makes Nintendo money in the first place, and that's just terrible business.

Even Diablo wouldn't work - the sort of people in question would hold out for the PC version, because of the "superior" mouse-and-keyboard interface, and because the graphics would be "obviously" better.

Not only that, but the people who grew up on particular systems have a tendency to buy all three consoles. It's families with younger children who tend to limit their purchases to one console. Young adults with disposable income (i.e. "hardcore gamers") will spend whatever money it takes to play the most compelling titles.
 
OMT said:
First, I'd guess that Nintendo doesn't even want that crowd. Catering to them alienates the rest of the market in various ways, because that crowd is going to be turned off by Nintendo's most valuable IPs even existing on the same platform. The only way to get them back would be to downplay what makes Nintendo money in the first place, and that's just terrible business.

Even Diablo wouldn't work - the sort of people in question would hold out for the PC version, because of the "superior" mouse-and-keyboard interface, and because the graphics would be "obviously" better.

Not only that, but the people who grew up on particular systems have a tendency to buy all three consoles. It's families with younger children who tend to limit their purchases to one console. Young adults with disposable income (i.e. "hardcore gamers") will spend whatever money it takes to play the most compelling titles.
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Nope.
They've specifically said several times that they do want that audience.
But they also want the expanded audience they had on the Wii.
They'll do whatever they can to get both.
WHATEVER they can.
 
Why do some people think that Nintendo should upgrade the Wii remote again for Wii U? It just seems unnecessary as MotionPlus can live on through the Wii U. Quite frankly, not even all Wii games necessarily needed to use motionplus anyway as some games like Mario Galaxy and MadWorld worked fine without the extra level of precision and responsiveness. Of course, Nintendo could just simply make the Wii remote obsolete and continue to sell Wii motion plus controllers at retail for people who didn't own a Wii.
 
OMT said:
First, I'd guess that Nintendo doesn't even want that crowd. Catering to them alienates the rest of the market in various ways, because that crowd is going to be turned off by Nintendo's most valuable IPs even existing on the same platform. The only way to get them back would be to downplay what makes Nintendo money in the first place, and that's just terrible business.

Even Diablo wouldn't work - the sort of people in question would hold out for the PC version, because of the "superior" mouse-and-keyboard interface, and because the graphics would be "obviously" better.

Not only that, but the people who grew up on particular systems have a tendency to buy all three consoles. It's families with younger children who tend to limit their purchases to one console. Young adults with disposable income (i.e. "hardcore gamers") will spend whatever money it takes to play the most compelling titles.
Click to expand...

As Ace said, Nintendo very much want that crowd. That is the crowd that constantly buys games. That is the crowd that preaches to others how amazing the console is. That is the crowd that's first out the gate and early-adopts, thereby creating the momentum needed for a system.

I agree that Diablo is more friendly for PC owners wrt controls, I was just using a high profile game as an example. Basically what I'm saying is that top of the line, AAA 3rd party exclusives might get people to get a Wii U and invest in that ecosystem, but I don't think Nintendo will do this.
 
People need to come to grips with the fact that the uPad is the primary controller focus for next-generation nintendo. No need to upgrade the remotes at all, leave them as is, and leave them optional for whoever wants to use them for whatever games implement that option. No more needs to be done.
 
AzaK said:
To be honest, I doubt Nintendo can get much of that crowd. There's no way Nintendo are going to be "more hardcore" than the 360 or PS3, and people have invested a lot in their gamertags, trophies and friends lists to switch to another platform. The graphics, while better than 360/PS3 may not be so far ahead to get people to switch, especially with new consoles on the horizon in the next year or so.
Click to expand...

Maybe nobody needs to switch. 8 year olds that got a Wii for christmass 6 years ago, are 14 year olds now. They will turn 20 in the coming console generation. Not losing customers might be just as important as winning them back.
 
Even if MS somehow managed to bundle a 4-5 inch vita-like tablets with deluxe 720 SKUs, there's no way they could sell it for a price near the Wii U's speculative price (350 USD). Their more likely to sell a stand-alone tablet/phone that can be used as a 720 controller or just make an app that turns select windows phones into controllers.
 
Doesn't the Wii U pretty much do all of that already? I mean its all in the patents that were posted a while back. If you take the time to read through it there is actually a lot there: Remote for TV, box checked. Augmented reality, box checked. Browser for internet box checked. Extra buttons and info on games, box checked. There's a lot more than that too, its just a long technical read.
 
AntMurda said:
But motion control is still in its infancy.
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But the technology is fine. Third-parties stopped carrying about supporting the Wii with core exclusive games when most of the sales were underwhelming. Developers like Capcom and Ubisoft withdrew future plans for major support of core games on the Wii before Summer 2010, leaving motionplus in the dust. Nintendo obviously didn't put in the time to pump out enough games to support it despite the commercial success of Wii Sports Resort and Skyward Sword. Of course, they also had several upcoming games in development slightly before or after 2009 that weren't based on motion control such as Donkey Kong Country, Xenoblade, Kirby's Return to Dreamland, and Rhythm Heaven Fever. Plus, they made the transition from DS to 3DS and also began preperations for Wii U.
 
ozfunghi said:
Maybe nobody needs to switch. 8 year olds that got a Wii for christmass 6 years ago, are 14 year olds now. They will turn 20 in the coming console generation. Not losing customers might be just as important as winning them back.
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They're 14-year-olds that need to be told what's "cool." If their friends and television tells them that Nintendo is no longer "cool", they'll drop it like it's hot.

Not all teens, mind, but most are just way too image-conscious and worried about what others think. Plus they're trying to be adults already, and want to shy away from anything too "kiddy."

/opinion
 
Jarsonot said:
They're 14-year-olds that need to be told what's "cool." If their friends and television tells them that Nintendo is no longer "cool", they'll drop it like it's hot.

Not all teens, mind, but most are just way too image-conscious and worried about what others think. Plus they're trying to be adults already, and want to shy away from anything too "kiddy."

/opinion
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That phase doesn't last too long.
For healthy individuals.
 
AceBandage said:
Nope.
They've specifically said several times that they do want that audience.
But they also want the expanded audience they had on the Wii.
They'll do whatever they can to get both.
WHATEVER they can.
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Of course PR will say that they want to include every type of gamer. They're not going to alienate a potential customer. They may not particularly try to attract that customer either, though.

As Ace said, Nintendo very much want that crowd. That is the crowd that constantly buys games. That is the crowd that preaches to others how amazing the console is. That is the crowd that's first out the gate and early-adopts, thereby creating the momentum needed for a system.

I agree that Diablo is more friendly for PC owners wrt controls, I was just using a high profile game as an example. Basically what I'm saying is that top of the line, AAA 3rd party exclusives might get people to get a Wii U and invest in that ecosystem, but I don't think Nintendo will do this.
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Third parties want that crowd for the reasons you state. If Nintendo wants that crowd at all, it would most likely only be to enhance their third party relationships. Otherwise, better to sell consoles at a profit and sell a mountain of AAA first-and-second-party titles than have to deal with all the crap that comes with dealing with modern third parties (moneyhats, getting stuck with buggy ports on your own console, getting "exclusives" pulled out from under you at the last minute, etc). If anything, I think Nintendo is emphasizing third party relationships this generation only because the cost of developing HD games is so inordinately high.

I don't believe there is such a thing as "sales momentum." In my opinion, the "momentum effect" is better explained by other, more conventional business and economic factors, such as cost control, inventory management, and accurately gauging demand.
 
TunaLover said:
Nintendo will have the best controller inputs for next gen, Wiimote Plus, classic controller, IR pointer, touchscreen. I really like they push Wiimote+, it was so under appreciated device, it only show its potential with Skyward Sword, they need include at least 1 Wiimote+ in the box.
Click to expand...

And the only thing that will be fully used will be the dual circle pads.[/sarcasmorisit?]

-Pyromaniac- said:
People need to come to grips with the fact that the uPad is the primary controller focus for next-generation nintendo. No need to upgrade the remotes at all, leave them as is, and leave them optional for whoever wants to use them for whatever games implement that option. No more needs to be done.
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But I want dual pointer controls. :(
 
Ahh, luckily when I was 14 it was at the cusp of SSBM. So many wasted hours with my friends :)
Actually now on our early 20s, everyone now plays CoD but me. We were victim of slower SSBB :/ I do like CoD, but not really to play as much as some people do.
 
OMT said:
First, I'd guess that Nintendo doesn't even want that crowd. Catering to them alienates the rest of the market in various ways, because that crowd is going to be turned off by Nintendo's most valuable IPs even existing on the same platform. The only way to get them back would be to downplay what makes Nintendo money in the first place, and that's just terrible business.

Even Diablo wouldn't work - the sort of people in question would hold out for the PC version, because of the "superior" mouse-and-keyboard interface, and because the graphics would be "obviously" better.

Not only that, but the people who grew up on particular systems have a tendency to buy all three consoles. It's families with younger children who tend to limit their purchases to one console. Young adults with disposable income (i.e. "hardcore gamers") will spend whatever money it takes to play the most compelling titles.
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You'd be surprised by a lot of things about "That crowd." Nintendo had a lot of that crowd on the n64, thanks to Goldeneye. Turns out people who played a lot of Goldeney also had Mario Kart in their dorm multiplayer rotation. Some blindly dismiss Nintendo franchises as kiddy, others do so as a defense mechanism due to those games not being availabel on the platform they chose.
 
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