Support NeoGAF

[Shikamaru Ninja]

if nintendo is legitimately serious about making a play for folk who like more complicated longer-play games, one of the best things they could do is have a really good one available at/near launch that no one else has... ideally something they developed internally, or by a more-or-less internal studio.

having it be a *new* ip that doesn't stick too obviously to either of "mushroom kingdom" or "bald space marine" aesthetics seems advisable as well...

The hardware and software are going to have to meet at a junction in order for the more typical xbox/ps3 core to take the Wii U seriously. This demographic is now used to trophies, robust online features, and dlc content as a standard for their games. I hope Nintendo understands that Darksiders 2 stripped off all this content, is going to not fare so well on the platform. The rest of third party software will follow as the XBOX/PS3 versions outsell it.

 

[birdchili]

they can't even *get* the third party stuff they want without some bare minimum online functionality.

i don't have a good read on how important achievements are. for the people that value them the most highly, i expect their current platform has a near-insurmountable advantage in that they'd lose their score by changing.

i really think nintendo themselves really needs to make a new core-like ip that leverages their tech really well in the very early days, or no one will take them seriously.

with most third-party multiplatform stuff, and similar output to wii from nintendo (franchise games and new ip of the "simpler gameplay" variety), i don't see them doing really well with wii u. the first party output needs to change a bit if they want to re-expand their audience.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

how much do dev kits cost and what's in it other than the hardware and controller?

 

[BurntPork]

how much do dev kits cost and what's in it other than the hardware and controller?

An arm and a leg.

No idea how much it costs, though.

 

[ii Stryker]

Anyone expecting anything mindblowing from the launch will be disappointed. The system's best chance at a good launch is that it comes out right around the time of Darksiders 2 and that game is best on Wii U. I think THQ might aim for that, as well, as being the premiere game on the system would mean a lot of extra sales for them.

If Nintendo doesn't have 1 mindblowing first party launch title its going to be a veery slow uptake of the WiiU for them. Their first party ip is what separates them from sony and ms and is what will drive sales of the WiiU

Darksiders 2 will be multiplatform and subsequently irrelevant to the WiiU's launch.

First party is what drives initial sales.

 

[BurntPork]

If Nintendo doesn't have 1 mindblowing first party launch title its going to be a veery slow uptake of the WiiU for them. Their first party ip is what separates them from sony and ms and is what will drive sales of the WiiU

Darksiders 2 will be multiplatform and subsequently irrelevant to the WiiU's launch.

First party is what drives initial sales.

It'll probably have Pikmin 3, NSMBMii, and Wii U Sports at launch, so, barring an insane price, it'll have a successful launch.

 

[ii Stryker]

Quit shitting on Pit's grave.

Spoiler

You too, Sora

It would be better then that unholy abomination rail shooter on the 3DS.

Besides with Retro developing and Miyamoto overseeing they made Metroid one of the best FPS's ever. The same awesomeness is possible for Kid Icarus.

 

[ii Stryker]

... Or maybe a new IP?

I don't really see Nintendo letting Retro loose on a new IP.

I seriously think its Kid Icarus. I can see Retro doing for it, what they did with Metroid on GC.

 

[TheNatural]

It'll probably have Pikmin 3, NSMBMii, and Wii U Sports at launch, so, barring an insane price, it'll have a successful launch.

That's decent, but I still don't know what Nintendo is working on, and its odd because they haven't done jack shit outside of Kirby's Epic Yarn in house as far as big console releases go, and we could be talking two franchise Nintendo console games coming out in two years, starting at the release of Mario Galaxy 2 to the Wii U launch, that could be two years plus and the only in house big franchise games ground up for the Wii released could be Kirby's Epic Yarn and Skyward Sword. That's just pretty damn bad.

Things just seem poorly mismanaged, despite Iwata saying they won't make the same mistake, but I mean they just made mistakes with the 3DS launch. It seems like their development cycles are not only extremely slow, but badly misplaced. Skyward Sword probably should have been out last year - how do you go 5 years between Zelda titles, and have them BOTH be at the start/end cycle of your current console and next console?

Meanwhile you have your makers of Smash Bros saying they haven't even started pre-pre production of it, and he's bottlenecked working on a 3DS game that looks *okay* but I mean its not mind blowing or anything, and there's virtually no hype for it - its just another release really.

That's basically Nintendo's problem, they seem completely under prepared for the 3DS launch and now under prepared for the next launch, and they have their development teams spending time on things that could be better spent elsewhere.

Here's how I would sum up what Nintendo needs to do. First off, their in house development teams, along with Retro and the Paper Mario makers, need to focus on their MAJOR franchises or new franchises. What the hell are you doing spending time on things like Pilotwings, Nintendogs, and Animal Crossing? Do you really need to waste an internal development team to work on the 50th port of Animal Crossing, or work on a pet simulator? You have about 500 second parties to work with of various games, let them do that shit and supervise it, it's not like any value has been added to these games being developed internally. It's just a resource burner.

Start doing what the Galaxy team did for Mario and start taking franchises in new directions instead of being so rigid on what they are. Does every Mario RPG series game have to be in the style of Paper Mario? Take your franchises in new directions and start working on new games, and let the second parties handle all the port filler you are wasting your resources on.

 

[StevieP]

Rushing game production always produces better results. It's why Nintendo, Valve, and Blizzard are among the garbage-bin of developers and studios like Bethesda, Lionhead and Bioware are the cream of the crop.

 

[walking fiend]

Nintendo was prepared for 3DS in terms of 1st party development, they specifically said they had games ready, but hold of to let 3rd party space to breath (which didn't work for several reasons)

They have almost 25 studios, and if we assume they should put out a (quality) game every 18 months, it would amount to 4 games every generation for each studio. I believe Nintendo has produced around that number (4*25) of games on DS + Wii combined past 6 years.

specifocally, EAD 3 released TP in 2006, PH in 2007, ST in 2009, and SS in 2011.

 

[Strife91]

I hate it when they leave us hanging like this. They haven't told us about any first party launch games either.

 

[walking fiend]

I hate it when they leave us hanging like this. They haven't told us about any first party launch games either.

Nintendo being Nintendo. We are actually really lucky to know pikmin 3 is on the way.

 

[DefectiveReject]

Retro will be making a FPS. Maybe set in space as I'm not overly sure Nintendo have ever made any real world war games.

Either that or an F-Zero game.

 

[watershed]

I hate it when they leave us hanging like this. They haven't told us about any first party launch games either.

Its way to early to expect anything like that. Think of E3 as a proof of concept reveal not a blow out. The system itself isn't even finalized yet.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I hate it when they leave us hanging like this. They haven't told us about any first party launch games either.

Aside from Twilight Princess, we didn't know about a single Wii title from the reveal at E3 2005, to the controller reveal at TGS 2005, until E3 2006.

That we know about Pikmin 3 at all is pretty shocking.

 

[BurntPork]

That's decent, but I still don't know what Nintendo is working on, and its odd because they haven't done jack shit outside of Kirby's Epic Yarn in house as far as big console releases go, and we could be talking two franchise Nintendo console games coming out in two years, starting at the release of Mario Galaxy 2 to the Wii U launch, that could be two years plus and the only in house big franchise games ground up for the Wii released could be Kirby's Epic Yarn and Skyward Sword. That's just pretty damn bad.

Things just seem poorly mismanaged, despite Iwata saying they won't make the same mistake, but I mean they just made mistakes with the 3DS launch. It seems like their development cycles are not only extremely slow, but badly misplaced. Skyward Sword probably should have been out last year - how do you go 5 years between Zelda titles, and have them BOTH be at the start/end cycle of your current console and next console?

Meanwhile you have your makers of Smash Bros saying they haven't even started pre-pre production of it, and he's bottlenecked working on a 3DS game that looks *okay* but I mean its not mind blowing or anything, and there's virtually no hype for it - its just another release really.

That's basically Nintendo's problem, they seem completely under prepared for the 3DS launch and now under prepared for the next launch, and they have their development teams spending time on things that could be better spent elsewhere.

Here's how I would sum up what Nintendo needs to do. First off, their in house development teams, along with Retro and the Paper Mario makers, need to focus on their MAJOR franchises or new franchises. What the hell are you doing spending time on things like Pilotwings, Nintendogs, and Animal Crossing? Do you really need to waste an internal development team to work on the 50th port of Animal Crossing, or work on a pet simulator? You have about 500 second parties to work with of various games, let them do that shit and supervise it, it's not like any value has been added to these games being developed internally. It's just a resource burner.

Start doing what the Galaxy team did for Mario and start taking franchises in new directions instead of being so rigid on what they are. Does every Mario RPG series game have to be in the style of Paper Mario? Take your franchises in new directions and start working on new games, and let the second parties handle all the port filler you are wasting your resources on.

It's a launch. How many systems have launched with a huge title? 4?

 

[TheNatural]

It's a launch. How many systems have launched with a huge title? 4?

Well they haven't been working on anything, that's my point. It's one thing if they release a crapload of games recently, but they'll be going into the Wii U launch with all of 2 ground up console games in 2 years. I mean, there's not really any reason to not have a major title of some sort, its not like they're doing a lot.

 

[hatchx]

Meanwhile you have your makers of Smash Bros saying they haven't even started pre-pre production of it, and he's bottlenecked working on a 3DS game that looks *okay* but I mean its not mind blowing or anything, and there's virtually no hype for it - its just another release really.

Ye of little Sakurai faith. Kid Icarus is going to be epic

Spoiler

when it comes out in summer 2012

 

[bgassassin]

At this point, we might as well let this thread die and just create a new thread when some actual new information is released.

The problem was that every time something non-thread worthy came out it got a thread. This thread is to keep that from happening. Even though we still ended up seeing a Wii U online thread from that Reggie article that gave no more information than we already knew. The idea of this thread isn't to prevent actual news from getting a thread. We just haven't really gotten it.

Plus if someone had a Wii U related question, they wouldn't have to make a thread just to ask it.

 

[Hiltz]

That's decent, but I still don't know what Nintendo is working on, and its odd because they haven't done jack shit outside of Kirby's Epic Yarn in house as far as big console releases go, and we could be talking two franchise Nintendo console games coming out in two years, starting at the release of Mario Galaxy 2 to the Wii U launch, that could be two years plus and the only in house big franchise games ground up for the Wii released could be Kirby's Epic Yarn and Skyward Sword. That's just pretty damn bad.

Donkey Kong Country was the last big first-party home console release. Kirby's Epic Yarn came out before, but only the PAL version was delayed. In addition, Epic Yarn was made by Good Feel, a second-party developer.

As for this year, we obviously know Nintendo's in-house development teams are working on Skyward Sword and Rhythm Heaven Wii. Only Monolith Soft has confirmed to be working on a Wii U title.Hal Labs, a second-party developer, is working on Kirby Wii.

Back on the Wii launch lineup, the only big title was Twilight Princess, a GameCube port. Nintendo had nothing to offer in terms of first-party titles besides Wii Sports. Monster Games, a second-party developer, had ExciteTruck ready at launch. Super Paper Mario, Mario Galaxy, and Metroid Prime 3 came out at a later time the following year. PAL Gamers had to wait until September 2007 to play Paper Mario while Japan got it in February and North America in April. Prime 3 wasn't ready until Q3 2007 and Mario Galaxy was the big holiday title.

With the Wii U, I think it will have a better overall aunch lineup with more variety of software because third-parties will be there to offer filler. Of course, most of it will probably consist of current-gen ports. On the bright side, those games are mature so the platform will have a lot of mature games available right from the start.

Things just seem poorly mismanaged, despite Iwata saying they won't make the same mistake, but I mean they just made mistakes with the 3DS launch. It seems like their development cycles are not only extremely slow, but badly misplaced. Skyward Sword probably should have been out last year - how do you go 5 years between Zelda titles, and have them BOTH be at the start/end cycle of your current console and next console?

I agree that Nintendo was not well prepared for the 3DS launch. There just was no killer-app software and third-parties still haven't stepped up to the plate (I suppose Capcom comes the closest). However, the second half of the year is going to be better, at least in terms of first-party software. Ocarina of Time already came out and there's Mario 3DS, Starfox 64 and Mario Kart to look forward to. Plus, Luigi's Mansion 2 is scheduled for next year. Animal Crossing and Paper Mario are most likely coming out in 2012 as well. As for as Zelda goes, Nintendo began development of Phantom Hourglass in May 2004 but the game didn't really take shape until a year later. In 2005, Iwata confirmed Phantom Hourglass was in development for the DS. The game was first shown in 2006 but came out in 2007. The title came out in October 2007. Spirit Track's was announced and released in 2009. Miyamoto said that Skyward Sword was being worked in 2008. However, Skyward sword's development began after Phantom Hourglass was finished but before the development of Spirit Tracks. Skyward SWord wasn't officially shown until 2010. As for Ocarina of Time 3DS, it was made by Grezzo, a second-party developer. Nintendo released Wind Waker for the GameCube in 2003. Then Twilight development began in 2003 . Of course, the game got delayed by a year in order to polish the game and offer a Wii port in time for the Wii's launch. The game was shown off in 2004 and orignially scheduled for release in 2005. Aonuma was also busy working on directing Zelda: Minish Cup at the time of TP's development.

Meanwhile you have your makers of Smash Bros saying they haven't even started pre-pre production of it, and he's bottlenecked working on a 3DS game that looks *okay* but I mean its not mind blowing or anything, and there's virtually no hype for it - its just another release really.

Obviously, it was Iwata's fault for announcing Smash Bros 4 prematurely. I am a bit concerned about how development is going to be. Sakurai said he'll once again be teaming up with outside developers to work on the project. However, it's hard enough making 1 big game but now he's got to make a second but different version for the 3DS and with some form of cross-platform play. It sounds like it will be a potentially chaotic development cycle for Sakurai and his team. Smash Bros. Brawl took somewhere around 16-20 months to make .I think we'd be lucky to get Smash Bros 4 by holiday 2013. Besides, Sakurai probably won't even be able to have teaser trailer ready for E3 2012.

 

[opi1saved]

An arm and a leg.

No idea how much it costs, though.

This was awesome.

 

[Rolf NB]

It'll probably have Pikmin 3, NSMBMii, and Wii U Sports at launch, so, barring an insane price, it'll have a successful launch.

How would that even work with the new default controller? Can you picture yourself playing bowling, tennis and baseball with a tablet?

 

[Sennorin]

It's a launch. How many systems have launched with a huge title? 4?

What Nintendo-system didn´t launch with a *huge title*?

The prospect of Wii U launching with something like Pikmin 3, NSMB and Wii Sports is extremely sad, disappointing and worrying. It´s like there is nothing *new* about this system. When I got the N64 with Mario 64, it felt revolutionary new. When I got a GameCube with Lugi´s Mansion and Rogue Leader, it felt vastly new. When I got a Wii with Wii Sports, it felt new.
When I will get a Wii U with Pikmin 3 and Wii Sports 2, I doubt that it´s going to feel *new*.

I´ve seen at least on other person here on Gaf post this, and I agree: Nintendo has to prove that they still have this *vision* that can create epic, big adventures that impress not only Nintendo-fans, but the whole industry. Basically, Portal 1 & 2 should have been from Nintendo. Can they create Wii U-games that induce this kind of excitement and freshness to the industry and all of its consumers? This is the big challenge Nintendo is going to face. It´s what will make them or break them.

 

[goomba]

How would that even work with the new default controller? Can you picture yourself playing bowling, tennis and baseball with a tablet?

Did you even watch the wii u demos ?

You still use the remote primarily, the tablet is used as a second screen e.g on the floor so you can see the golf ball.

 

[MDX]

There are two Crytek studios, so maybe only the Germany based studio has devkits.

Either that, or, developers are giving mixed signals to console manufactures to have them pay to not put titles on their competitors respective consoles.

If we start to see western developers decide not to develop for WiiU, or put mediocre titles on the machine, we can bet that there were some backdoor deals made.

 

[AceBandage]

Either that, or, developers are giving mixed signals to console manufactures to have them pay to not put titles on their competitors respective consoles.

If we start to see western developers decide not to develop for WiiU, or put mediocre titles on the machine, we can bet that there were some backdoor deals made.

That would take more money than it's worth...

 

[Furianshi]

cdon.com, a Swedish retailer, has posted a listing for Legend of Zelda Paper (Wii U)

Probably more a stab in the dark than a definite upcoming title, but it's something else to talk about I guess. I wouldn't be all that surprised with a paper Zelda after producer Eiji Aonuma basically hinted at something like this.

 

[Axkil aka StabMasterArson]

cdon.com, a Swedish retailer, has posted a listing for Legend of Zelda Paper (Wii U)

Probably more a stab in the dark than a definite upcoming title, but it's something else to talk about I guess. I wouldn't be all that surprised with a paper Zelda after producer Eiji Aonuma basically hinted at something like this.

Your avatar is king!

 

[BurntPork]

How would that even work with the new default controller? Can you picture yourself playing bowling, tennis and baseball with a tablet?

It wouldn't. You'll need a Wii Remote Plus to use with it. Go look at the E3 intro teaser.

 

[bgassassin]

cdon.com, a Swedish retailer, has posted a listing for Legend of Zelda Paper (Wii U)

Probably more a stab in the dark than a definite upcoming title, but it's something else to talk about I guess. I wouldn't be all that surprised with a paper Zelda after producer Eiji Aonuma basically hinted at something like this.

They probably got it from that old, fake, pre-E3 list.

 

[Rolf NB]

It wouldn't. You'll need a Wii Remote Plus to use with it. Go look at the E3 intro teaser.

Is a Wii remote packed in with the system?

 

[Axkil aka StabMasterArson]

Is a Wii remote packed in with the system?

facepalm. who cares, you know how many Wiimotes are out there? Every card carrying gamer owns or no where to find one, plus i'm sure any game that requires one will prolly pack one in.

 

[TheNatural]

DKC was made by Retro, how was that first party? I've always assumed Kirby was made in house by someone at Nintendo. If so, it's even worse then, because they've literally only been working on 3DS game, which shouldn't be THAT time consuming. Nintendo's development cycles have increased a ton from what they used to be, and the hardware hasn't even gotten more powerful for them with the Wii. I don't know if they've been messing with a lot of R&D to get motion controls to work, or what, but I don't get it.

Compare the Wii to Wii U end of console life jump to what was the N64 to Gamecube. You had Majora's Mask come out in late 2000, then in 2001 a couple of major releases to a virtually dead N64 from second parties, in Paper Mario and Conker's Bad Fur Day. Then the Gamecube launched with Luigi's Mansion and Waverace, and not three weeks later Smash Bros Melee and Pikmin. Then a few months later a new Mario. This all during the release of the Game Boy Advance. That was a SHITLOAD of output and Nintendo timed it really well with support and major games. I don't understand why they can't do the same now?

Donkey Kong Country was the last big first-party home console release. Kirby's Epic Yarn came out before, but only the PAL version was delayed. In addition, Epic Yarn was made by Good Feel, a second-party developer.

As for this year, we obviously know Nintendo's in-house development teams are working on Skyward Sword and Rhythm Heaven Wii. Only Monolith Soft has confirmed to be working on a Wii U title.Hal Labs, a second-party developer, is working on Kirby Wii.

Back on the Wii launch lineup, the only big title was Twilight Princess, a GameCube port. Nintendo had nothing to offer in terms of first-party titles besides Wii Sports. Monster Games, a second-party developer, had ExciteTruck ready at launch. Super Paper Mario, Mario Galaxy, and Metroid Prime 3 came out at a later time the following year. PAL Gamers had to wait until September 2007 to play Paper Mario while Japan got it in February and North America in April. Prime 3 wasn't ready until Q3 2007 and Mario Galaxy was the big holiday title.

With the Wii U, I think it will have a better overall aunch lineup with more variety of software because third-parties will be there to offer filler. Of course, most of it will probably consist of current-gen ports. On the bright side, those games are mature so the platform will have a lot of mature games available right from the start.



I agree that Nintendo was not well prepared for the 3DS launch. There just was no killer-app software and third-parties still haven't stepped up to the plate (I suppose Capcom comes the closest). However, the second half of the year is going to be better, at least in terms of first-party software. Ocarina of Time already came out and there's Mario 3DS, Starfox 64 and Mario Kart to look forward to. Plus, Luigi's Mansion 2 is scheduled for next year. Animal Crossing and Paper Mario are most likely coming out in 2012 as well. As for as Zelda goes, Nintendo began development of Phantom Hourglass in May 2004 but the game didn't really take shape until a year later. In 2005, Iwata confirmed Phantom Hourglass was in development for the DS. The game was first shown in 2006 but came out in 2007. The title came out in October 2007. Spirit Track's was announced and released in 2009. Miyamoto said that Skyward Sword was being worked in 2008. However, Skyward sword's development began after Phantom Hourglass was finished but before the development of Spirit Tracks. Skyward SWord wasn't officially shown until 2010. As for Ocarina of Time 3DS, it was made by Grezzo, a second-party developer. Nintendo released Wind Waker for the GameCube in 2003. Then Twilight development began in 2003 . Of course, the game got delayed by a year in order to polish the game and offer a Wii port in time for the Wii's launch. The game was shown off in 2004 and orignially scheduled for release in 2005. Aonuma was also busy working on directing Zelda: Minish Cup at the time of TP's development.




Obviously, it was Iwata's fault for announcing Smash Bros 4 prematurely. I am a bit concerned about how development is going to be. Sakurai said he'll once again be teaming up with outside developers to work on the project. However, it's hard enough making 1 big game but now he's got to make a second but different version for the 3DS and with some form of cross-platform play. It sounds like it will be a potentially chaotic development cycle for Sakurai and his team. Smash Bros. Brawl took somewhere around 16-20 months to make .I think we'd be lucky to get Smash Bros 4 by holiday 2013. Besides, Sakurai probably won't even be able to have teaser trailer ready for E3 2012.

 

[civilstrife]

You know, I have to say. I don't think Nintendo is going for the hardcore market in the way we think they are. I think Nintendo wants WiiU to be the DS of consoles: Perfectly capable of either casual or core games, cheaper than the competition, and with a controller hook that the competition won't have.

I think we all read way too far into the ramblings of some leaky shlub from Ubisoft claiming this to be Nintendo's glorious return to hardcore gaming.

 

[MDX]

facepalm. who cares, you know how many Wiimotes are out there? Every card carrying gamer owns or no where to find one, plus i'm sure any game that requires one will prolly pack one in.

Im sure that Nintendo is not planning for everyone who has bought a Wii to buy a WiiU. There are plenty of Xbox & Playstation owners who have not bought Wii's. And Nintendo is all about expanding markets, so they will be looking to get first time console owners.

Lets not forget not every Wii owner has Wiimotion plus. Plus we dont even know if there will be a Wiimote redesign as well.

 

[Truth101]

DKC was made by Retro, how was that first party? I've always assumed Kirby was made in house by someone at Nintendo. If so, it's even worse then, because they've literally only been working on 3DS game, which shouldn't be THAT time consuming. Nintendo's development cycles have increased a ton from what they used to be, and the hardware hasn't even gotten more powerful for them with the Wii. I don't know if they've been messing with a lot of R&D to get motion controls to work, or what, but I don't get it.

Compare the Wii to Wii U end of console life jump to what was the N64 to Gamecube. You had Majora's Mask come out in late 2000, then in 2001 a couple of major releases to a virtually dead N64 from second parties, in Paper Mario and Conker's Bad Fur Day. Then the Gamecube launched with Luigi's Mansion and Waverace, and not three weeks later Smash Bros Melee and Pikmin. Then a few months later a new Mario. This all during the release of the Game Boy Advance. That was a SHITLOAD of output and Nintendo timed it really well with support and major games. I don't understand why they can't do the same now?

Nintendo owns Retro. It's not hard to grasp.

 

[MDX]

DKC was made by Retro, how was that first party?

Maybe you werent aware of this, but Retro is as first party.

 

[TheNatural]

Nintendo owns Retro. It's not hard to grasp.

Well I thought second parties were considered owned subsidiaries like Rare was for example.

Either way, whatever the term means or not, second or first, I'm referring to what Nintendo itself in Japan has made on it's own, not any of its subsidiaries they have purchased and now own. Like Nintendo EAD, SPD, and so on. Anyway you want to cut it, inside Nintendo main studios in Japan they haven't been doing a hell of a lot console wise.

 

[Truth101]

Well I thought second parties were considered owned subsidiaries like Rare was for example.

Either way, whatever the term means or not, second or first, I'm referring to what Nintendo itself in Japan has made on it's own, not any of its subsidiaries they have purchased and now own. Like Nintendo EAD, SPD, and so on. Anyway you want to cut it, inside Nintendo main studios in Japan they haven't been doing a hell of a lot console wise.

It is no more a subsidiary than EAD is.

 

[TheNatural]

It is no more a subsidiary than EAD is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Entertainment_Analysis_and_Development

EAD is Nintendo itself and all the name major players. That's who I'm wondering WHY they're so out of balance on what they're working on, along with their longtime close other affiliates like Sora and HAL who have long made up the core of Nintendo. Why is it taking them so long to release shit?

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Well I thought second parties were considered owned subsidiaries like Rare was for example.

Either way, whatever the term means or not, second or first, I'm referring to what Nintendo itself in Japan has made on it's own, not any of its subsidiaries they have purchased and now own. Like Nintendo EAD, SPD, and so on. Anyway you want to cut it, inside Nintendo main studios in Japan they haven't been doing a hell of a lot console wise.

Even if you consider Retro Studios an outside source. All Retro Studios games have thus far been co-developed by Nintendo SPD3 and Kensuke Tanabe. Basically Production, Music, and Planning. Just like games from Monster Games. That would still give claim to Nintendo development.

But if you theoretically want to dissect games by direct Nintendo Company Limited employees and not subsidiaries or satellites. Then you also have to consider there are games that are in development that just do not get released. Metroid Dread. Wii Relax. Stage Debut. Roll-O-Rama. Wii Cooking. Are just the software publicly mentioned that has failed to see release. Who knows how many other prototypes or unfinished side projects there are.

It is no more a subsidiary than EAD is.

Well not necessarily true. EAD/SPD/IRD/RED/etc. are sectors of Nintendo Company Limited. Basically fragmented departments inside of Nintendo's 3 main buildings. (2 in Kyoto, 1 Tokyo). Personnel can be reassigned to different departments.

First-party subsidiaries like Nintendo of America, Nintendo Software Technology Corp, Nintendo Technology Development Inc, Retro Studios Inc, Nd Cube Inc, etc, are first-party development and nintendo extensions. But they are one step away from the core.

 

[Truth101]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Entertainment_Analysis_and_Development

EAD is Nintendo itself and all the name major players. That's who I'm wondering WHY they're so out of balance on what they're working on, along with their longtime close other affiliates like Sora and HAL who have long made up the core of Nintendo. Why is it taking them so long to release shit?

I always thought Nintendo kept a nice pace in releasing their games.

 

[TheNatural]

Even if you consider Retro Studios an outside source. All Retro Studios games have thus far been co-developed by Nintendo SPD3 and Kensuke Tanabe. Basically Production, Music, and Planning. Just like games from Monster Games. That would still give claim to Nintendo development.

But if you theoretically want to dissect games by direct Nintendo Company Limited employees and not subsidiaries or satellites. Then you also have to consider there are games that are in development that just do not get released. Metroid Dread. Wii Relax. Stage Debut. Roll-O-Rama. Wii Cooking. Are just the software publicly mentioned that has failed to see release. Who knows how many other prototypes or unfinished side projects there are.

Well that's what I'm wondering, it seems like their time is spend on prototype stuff that's trashed or rebuilt or something and their development cycles take forever. And this on a console that wasn't even HD, it could be even longer next generation, especially with more required of portable development. It seems to be a trend that Japanese companies all around have fallen off and taken forever to develop games compared to US developers. I'm not saying rush things, but there really isn't any reason to be ill prepared for the Wii U launch, Nintendo hasn't been putting anything out directly to need to be so delayed.

 

[MDX]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Entertainment_Analysis_and_Development

EAD is Nintendo itself and all the name major players. That's who I'm wondering WHY they're so out of balance on what they're working on, along with their longtime close other affiliates like Sora and HAL who have long made up the core of Nintendo. Why is it taking them so long to release shit?

I suppose the imbalance comes from East vs West way of thinking, working and communication. But why it has taken so long to come with games, it could be that Retro has been doing more than just developing games, maybe working on engines, etc.

Could very well be that they are also sitting on titles (probably not fully finished). But when it comes down to it, I dont see them moving any slower than Nintendo's other premier teams.

 

[Furianshi]

Your avatar is king!

haha thanks! I found it on google and just made the background transparent.

I was going to use this one, but then I read you can't use animated gifs for your avatar here. The filesize was too large anyway.

 

[Hiltz]

Yeah, Retro Studios is a first-party developer because Nintendo owns the company. However, Retro Studios is located in Texas so it's considered to be an external first-party developer. I believe all of Nintendo's other current first-party developers are located in Japan, including Project Sora and Monolith Soft.

Kirby was originally made by HAL Laboratory, which is a first-party developer. It is the main developer of Kirby games like Super Star, Adventure, Dreamland, Dream Course, Air Ride, and Kirby 64 as well as Kirby Wii and Mass Attack for DS.However, Nintendo has let other developers make Kirby games. For example, Kirby's Epic Yarn was made by Good Feel, a second-party developer. Kirby's Amazing Mirror was made through a collaboration with first-party developer HAL Labs, second-party developer Flagship, and third-party developer, Dimps. Another title like Kirby: Squeak Squad, made by Flagship and third-party developer, Natsume.

note: Flagship is a first-party developer for Capcom since it owns the company. However, the developer receives funds to make projects for Nintendo and Sega as well so it also acts as a second-party developer for them.

 

[EatChildren]

Retro Studios is every bit as much 'Nintendo' as EAD. Where they studio is located is meaningless. They're a complete branch of Nintendo, and everything they make is first party Nintendo software.

They just happen to have an identifiable name, much like HAL.

 

[TheNatural]

Retro Studios is every bit as much 'Nintendo' as EAD. Where they studio is located is meaningless. They're a complete branch of Nintendo, and everything they make is first party Nintendo software.

They just happen to have an identifiable name, much like HAL.

Can we get over the nitpicking over what is or isn't Nintendo? That's completely missing the point. We already KNOW what Retro is doing because they just released a game LAST year. They do their work, I have no problem with Retro.




The point is, what the hell is this core part of Nintendo doing, which has huge gaps in releases in some of their teams:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Entertainment_Analysis_and_Development

Like SDG #1 for example, a 3 year gap between Mario Kart Wii and Nintendogs 3DS and Mario Kart 3DS later this year. I don't know how many people are on this team or what, but it doesn't make sense to me some of these gaps. It's really taking you three years to make two games at a time, one of which is nothing more than a simple pet simulator? And the other series, you've basically been dealing with the SAME style of graphics for 3 games (Mario Kart GC, Wii, and 3DS.) Then you look at SDG #2 and they "co-produced" Starfox 3DS, but before that it was two years since Wii Sports Resort and then it's going to be another year before the next Animal Crossing comes out - a 4 year gap between games in that series that look and play almost completely identical!

I don't get it, that's all I'm saying. I'm hoping there's a bunch of stuff they haven't shown and the tech demo stuff really wasn't what was just "ready." We're in an era where a talented PERSON not people can put together a great indie game in a matter of MONTHS and then you look at the greatest videogame company in history, and their teams are spending years on stuff like Animal Crossing and Nintendogs. It doesn't add up.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Can we get over the nitpicking over what is or isn't Nintendo? That's completely missing the point. We already KNOW what Retro is doing because they just released a game LAST year. They do their work, I have no problem with Retro.




The point is, what the hell is this core part of Nintendo doing, which has huge gaps in releases in some of their teams:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Entertainment_Analysis_and_Development

Like SDG #1 for example, a 3 year gap between Mario Kart Wii and Nintendogs 3DS and Mario Kart 3DS later this year. I don't know how many people are on this team or what, but it doesn't make sense to me some of these gaps. It's really taking you three years to make two games at a time, one of which is nothing more than a simple pet simulator? And the other series, you've basically been dealing with the SAME style of graphics for 3 games (Mario Kart GC, Wii, and 3DS.) Then you look at SDG #2 and they "co-produced" Starfox 3DS, but before that it was two years since Wii Sports Resort and then it's going to be another year before the next Animal Crossing comes out - a 4 year gap between games in that series that look and play almost completely identical!

I don't get it, that's all I'm saying. I'm hoping there's a bunch of stuff they haven't shown and the tech demo stuff really wasn't what was just "ready." We're in an era where a talented PERSON not people can put together a great indie game in a matter of MONTHS and then you look at the greatest videogame company in history, and their teams are spending years on stuff like Animal Crossing and Nintendogs. It doesn't add up.

I believe the core of those teams are personal who prototype and design and at certain stages of completion, when miyamoto certifies the fun, man power from across the company is brought in to complete the project. That man power is determined by the scope of the project. Animal crossing is not being made by 60+ people that only work on that project. They move around alot where needed. They scale development accordingly and prototype constantly which explains those gaps. You cant look at those teams inside Nintendo as a dedicated developer like western companies. At least that is what i remember being told by some posters much smarter than me years ago.