Support NeoGAF

[EDarkness]

Not wanting to release an expensive systems or take a big loss on hardware isn't enough reason for them to not want to release something close to the current generation?

I just really don't understand the mentality some people have in regards to Nintendo. It's like none of you think Nintendo would take the opportunity to brag about how much more powerful Wii U was compared to what is out now if they were able to.

No one wants to bring out an "expensive" system, but I do think they'll go for a relatively high end to keep devs basically happy. Which means, I don't expect a $199-249 system. My guess is around $299-349 where they can get as much tech as they can in the box without breaking the bank. The Wii will probably drop in price to cover those who want something cheap. I believe Reggie said as much a few months back.

Still, I'm not a huge Nintendo fan, but I am interested in the Wii U (as I am with the next Xbox), but from what I know about them now, I doubt seriously they'd brag about it. Since they're coming out first the other systems WILL be more powerful. That simply can't be helped, so why get into that discussion in the first place. If I were in their shoes, I'd do the same thing. If they were coming out last, then I could see them taking a little jab at the competition, but even that doesn't really mean anything. It sure didn't help Sony.

 

[HylianTom]

sooo uhhhh



and since then we know that there was a notable boost in one of the final dev kits that was apparently a bit significant

yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Not valid because.. it's Nintendo.

(yuk yuk!)

 

[Van Owen]

Because their competition is the Ps4 and the NextBox? Give concretes numbers and rivals will have solid metrics to base how much their systems will beat yours in their presentation at E3 2013. (Note: None doubts that the Ps4 and NextBox will be considerably more powerful, 20% IGN rumor be damned). Did Nintendo ever said by for how much the 3DS beats the PSP? The let their tech demos and games speak for themselves.

Wii U tech demos speak to 360 and PS3 games.

 

[Glorified G]

Yet he could mean 'on par' as in portability cross-coding etc.? He could be talking about architecture, not power, hence the ease to develop with.

Simply put, the Wii U cannot be on par with the 360 for 3 reasons - we've heard more sources on the contrary (dev comments etc.), Nintendo won't be releasing what is essentially now a 6 year old console in 2012, and we have already seen what the system is capable of, at an early stage, and it surpasses that of current capabilities, by a significant amount!

1 step forward 2 steps back much? It renders the idea of the console being 360 level near impossible.

My point was it's foolish to try to spin the article as something it's not. Nothing was missing or taken out of context, it was clear as day.

If he said "The Wii U blows the current gen out of the water. Huge leap!" Nobody hear would be dissecting the article and try to find some subliminal meaning that's not there.

 

[pieatorium]

As i said, what arkam stated (well, i've not read all of these posts) could be explained by tons of parameters and STILL could fit the more and more precise image of the Wii U power range that informed people can have after reading infos from developers, manufacturers, hardware "leaks", educated speculations, etc. These two waves of data aren't conflicting at all, when, again, you take into consideration all the context (dev kit used by its studio, what they intend to do with the upad, the nature of their project, a port or not, when in the development process of their title his impressions were made, etc.).

When i read some of you, it's like the world is either black or white. Wii U is underpowered OR Wii U is truly next-gen. A Wii U port on par with Xbox360 mean Wii U is underpowered, etc. Take a long breath and consider all the context, then you'll see the information under a very different light.

Like I said previously my post had absolutley nothing to do with whether WiiU will be powerful or not but solely to do with Arkham being called a liar and such whereass you are practically deified in here.

 

[z0m3le]

Wow. The Nintendo haters are out in force today.

Yep, this is the last thing I read in the other thread.

My personal belief is that the Wii-U will be more powerful than current-gen consoles, but not by an order of magnitude. And that's fine. Let's say the Wii-U is like the Xbox compared to the Dreamcast - same generation, but clearly capable of better graphics, due to more memory and a new graphical feature or two. Since it costs a hell of a lot of money and time to make game assets which fully take advantage of even PS3/Xbox 360 hardware, few next-gen games are going to be amazing-looking no matter how powerful the hardware.

With the Wii, Nintendo hasn't gotten the biggest games ported from other consoles not only because their system was weak, but because it was just too different from the competition. Lack of standard pixel/fragment shaders and low texture memory, coupled with the completely different controls meant that any game would have to be completely rewritten for the Nintendo hardware, and that is too pricey for publishers to take a risk on. The Wii-U, however, is fixing all of this. The graphics system is going to be standardized and the controller is pretty much a standard game controller with a screen hacked in, so the system should get all the big releases.

Also consider this: Wii-U is coming out this year. Both Sony and Microsoft have clearly stated that they will not be even discussing new gaming hardware during E3 this year, which means it's likely that their consoles aren't coming out until 2014 (game consoles don't get released less than a year after their announcement). If Nintendo can be hardware top-dog for over a year, even if it isn't a huge jump, that will get plenty of third party developers used-to developing for it, and give it time to get a large pool of owners, which will keep the games coming regardless of how powerful the competition is.

I am glad it was posted, I tried myself to reasonably discuss the hardware in that thread, but it got me no where fast. "Hatred originating from disreputable gentlemen, is going to continually persist." -joseph ducreux

 

[Lonely1]

Wii U tech demos speak to 360 and PS3 games.

Nintendo should have learned from Sony and release a bunch of "Target renders" as real footage when the hardware was at least a year away. You are missing that very important point, Nintendo will present the Wii U on its final form at E3 2012. At E3 2011 they had overheating early kits.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Not valid because.. it's Nintendo.

(yuk yuk!)

ALL THE FUCKING SPIN

LOL

 

[HylianTom]

ALL THE FUCKING SPIN

LOL

It's amazing how it can all be distilled into one succinct saying. So very perfect.

Reggie, my man.. if you (or one of your people) are reading this, you have to sarcastically work this into your E3 conference! Do it as a wink-and-nod to your NeoGAF peeps!

 

[Instro]

sooo uhhhh



and since then we know that there was a notable boost in one of the final dev kits that was apparently a bit significant

so yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

When was that quote from though, E3?

Like I said previously my post had absolutley nothing to do with whether WiiU will be powerful or not but solely to do with Arkham being called a liar and such whereass you are practically deified in here.

To be fair people called him a liar prior to him being confirmed, and it was because it seemed to contradict posts from lherre and other stuff that had come out.

 

[Glorified G]

Not valid because.. it's Nintendo.

(yuk yuk!)

Not valid because there is no contradiction. It's possible to be on par & be more powerful at the same time.

Dreamcast was on par with the gamecube, yet tech wise wasn't as strong.

 

[Van Owen]

Nintendo should have learned from Sony and MS and release a bunch of Target renders when the hardware was at least a year away.

Killzone 2 and 3 look pretty similar to Sony's target, imo.

I really hate the WHAT WE SAW WHAT WE GOT shit people post with the Zelda Gamecube tech demo and Twilight Princess. The truth is, if there was a Zelda game where everyone/thing on the screen had the visual quality and polycounts of what was in the Zelda tech demo, it would be more technically impressive than Twilight Princess. Even if the Link and Ganon models in the demo look shitty looking due to the way they were modeled and art, they're still more technically impressive than what is in Twilight Princess.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

If Wii U is 1terraflop of computing power what is the 360 and PS3.

Kotaku said the 360 was 0.25 then some sites say the PS3 is nearly two ?.

Also didnt someone say in here they had Unreal Engine 4 running on it and that takes 2.5 terraflops of power ?.

Cheers.

Nvidia used to add all the operations its GPU could to and translate that to GFLOPS/TFLOPS, that old way of measuring was often called "NvFlops". The PS3 doesn't have anywhere near two TFLOPs, it more like 400~450 GFLOPS (CPu+GPU) while the Xbox 360 is 355 GFLOPs (CPU+GPU). Nvidia claimed 80 GFLOPS for the NV2A, the original Xbox GPU. The Book "Opening The Xbox" stated Xbox was 21 GFLOPs (page 270). Only in more recent years have AMD and Nvidia stopped using their rediculas method of counting FLOPs, Now it's more standard. programmable FLOPs. Even so, I'm told that FLOPs between AMD and Nvidia are not directly commparable, there are other factors. Someone smarter than me in these areas could explain far better than I could.


p.s. I just woke up and missed like 2 pages of this thread, anything going on GAF?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Not valid because there is no contradiction. It's possible to be on par & be more powerful at the same time.

Dreamcast was on par with the gamecube, yet tech wise wasn't as strong.

and you have the gall to call people out on spin lol. He says it's more powerful, flat out. This is post e3, they've already had dev kits.

And now consider the fact that we know that the dev kits received a notable bump towards the end and it is more than just "more powerful".

 

[IdeaMan]

Like I said previously my post had absolutley nothing to do with whether WiiU will be powerful or not but solely to do with Arkham being called a liar and such whereass you are practically deified in here.

I wasn't around when arkam posted its messages, but the situation is not as simple as that, some gafers directly believed him or tried to explain its messages. And me deified ? I'm getting on the nerves of quite a bunch of people because of my way to disclose my info, drop by drop with tease

It's because some are too quick to jump to conclusions, and don't see the information of arkam for example, in their context. Now if a part of this community tend to be harsh against data that doesn't please them on the first sight, it's a problem yes.

 

[Lonely1]

Killzone 2 and 3 look pretty similar to Sony's target, imo.

Not, it does not. But anyway, did the Ps3 launched with Killzone 2? No. Did launch games looked as good as Sony's Target? No, they didn't. Then, why do you expect then that games and demos shown a year (at least) before release be the end of what we can expect of the system?

The truth is, if there was a Zelda game where everyone/thing on the screen had the visual quality and polycounts of what was in the Zelda tech demo, it would be more technically impressive than Twilight Princess. Even if the Link and Ganon models in the demo look shitty looking due to the way they were modeled and art, they're still more technically impressive than what is in Twilight Princess.

Exactly the sames applies to KZ Target render and what we got. Better art does wonders to hide technical deficiencies. Character models were lower poly, lower res textures, lighting was not as accurate, animation wasn't nearly as smooth, frame rate was lower and the AA wasn't as good.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I mean...yeah, it's on par with PS360. It is more like that than it will be like the next XBox, I guarantee you that.

But "on par" is a pretty broad term. You might get more effects, better resolution, better framerate. Or you might get none of that from most games, who knows. Most people likely won't notice a difference. I'd also wager most people won't care, but that's neither here nor there.

If your value estimation of a system that has literally almost no announced exclusive games for it is based on what generation you can most closely tie the hardware to, then you're in for a rough year.

For everyone else, it's March. June is in a few months. I'd probably stomp pouncing on every little thing and just wait.

 

[EDarkness]

My point was it's foolish to try to spin the article as something it's not. Nothing was missing or taken out of context, it was clear as day.

If he said "The Wii U blows the current gen out of the water. Huge leap!" Nobody hear would be dissecting the article and try to find some subliminal meaning that's not there.

I'm sure there would be people out there arguing against what he said and would use the demos as a way to prove that he was wrong.

In this case, the context of the video was porting, getting the game running, and extra features. In that area he said so far the hardware was on par with the current generation. He also said, "Based on what I understand the resolution (and) textures, poly counts and all that stuff-- we're not going to be doing anything to up-res the game."

Which means he's getting this information second hand and there could be anything that could drive him to the conclusion he gave us. He's not the foremost expert on the subject.

 

[Glorified G]

I mean...yeah, it's on par with PS360. It is more like that than it will be like the next XBox, I guarantee you that.

But "on par" is a pretty broad term. You might get more effects, better resolution, better framerate. Or you might get none of that from most games, who knows. Most people likely won't notice a difference. I'd also wager most people won't care, but that's neither here nor there.

If your value estimation of a system that has literally almost no announced exclusive games for it is based on what generation you can most closely tie the hardware to, then you're in for a rough year.

For everyone else, it's March. June is in a few months. I'd probably stomp pouncing on every little thing and just wait.

Exactly my point. This quote doesn't contradict the others from a year ago. Same as my GC>>Dreamcast comparison post.

 

[HylianTom]

I mean...yeah, it's on par with PS360. It is more like that than it will be like the next XBox, I guarantee you that.

But "on par" is a pretty broad term. You might get more effects, better resolution, better framerate. Or you might get none of that from most games, who knows. Most people likely won't notice a difference. I'd also wager most people won't care, but that's neither here nor there.

If your value estimation of a system that has literally almost no announced exclusive games for it is based on what generation you can most closely tie the hardware to, then you're in for a rough year.

For everyone else, it's March. June is in a few months. I'd probably stomp pouncing on every little thing and just wait.

"On par" is indeed quite vague. Part of me is convinced that the wording was chosen very, very deliberately.

As of late, people of all fanstripes here seem to be wound-up very tightly.

I think I like this place much, much more when we're discussing E3 possibilities, or potential games, or uses for the pad. The hardware hostilities look silly in time.

 

[Van Owen]

No, they didn't. Then, why do you expect then that games and demos shown a year (at least) before release be the end of what we can expect of the system?

The same way I didn't expect Wii games to look significantly better than what games looked like at the end of the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox cycle, which they didn't.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I mean...yeah, it's on par with PS360. It is more like that than it will be like the next XBox, I guarantee you that.

But "on par" is a pretty broad term. You might get more effects, better resolution, better framerate. Or you might get none of that from most games, who knows. Most people likely won't notice a difference. I'd also wager most people won't care, but that's neither here nor there.

If your value estimation of a system that has literally almost no announced exclusive games for it is based on what generation you can most closely tie the hardware to, then you're in for a rough year.

For everyone else, it's March. June is in a few months. I'd probably stomp pouncing on every little thing and just wait.

like usual, if a console is stronger than another console, the claims will rarely ever be proved by 3rd parties, it'll have to be the next zelda that shows it, or the next metroid. But like you said, for the majority of games, they'll be ps360 ports, and then when the ps4/720 comes out it'll be downscaled ports, but when it's all said and done we're speaking in margins that aren't the same as this generation. That much we can agree on.

All this hoopla is gonna look pretty ridiculous in a few months, and in a year, and then a year after that. But the worst part is the pouncing on news and confirming is as the undeniable and horrible truth every time something comes out, even if it conflicts a truth we heard a week or a month earlier.

 

[pieatorium]

I wasn't around when arkam posted its messages, but the situation is not as simple as that, some gafers directly believed him or tried to explain its messages. And me deified ? I'm getting on the nerves of quite a bunch of people because of my way to disclose my info, drop by drop with tease

It's because some are too quick to jump to conclusions, and don't see the information of arkam for example, in their context. Now if a part of this community tend to be harsh against information that doesn't please them on the first sight, it's a problem yes.

Not until well after he was confirmed was there an attempt to explain how what he said could fit with what we had already heard and even then there were people who were still hostile to the information.

As for getting on the nerves of people I have been away from the thread for a couple of days but prior to that there was days of people getting exited because you announced that you would be bringing new runours.

 

[IdeaMan]

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the second screen will be used as an inventory or status or powerup (think: DS Mario games) screen while more power is delegated to the TV screen.

Then, when the controller screen is used, power may be shifted away from the TV for dramatic effect. For example, if you hold the controller up as though you're scanning an area in Metroid (heat visor? xray visor?), the TV may go blurry or less-defined (artistically speaking) while you're focused on you controller interface.

I could see some developers using the power distribution in this manner..

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36169423&postcount=5668

We can even imagine another way to dynamically allocate/dispatch the power for the main or the subscreen.

This is exactly what i wanted to hint in this message. HylianTom rocks !!!!! And you can go even further in your speculation

 

[Anth0ny]

At this point, I believe it is going to be "on par" with 360/PS3 graphically... but with a 480p image going to the controller at the same time.

 

[+Aliken+]

This on par thing is pretty generic...
I mean he said on par with Ps3 and 360.
Well if we look in detail the Ps3 is more powerful than the 360.

So something cannot really be on par with two things that aren't on par with each other.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I remember a post on GAF, in 2006, arguing that the Wii was actually weaker than the Gamecube.

He got a lot of "You know, maybe" replies and one guy pointed out that using GC hardware for backwards compatibility would not make sense if that were the case.

You're going to see the same kind of craziness this time and a lot of it is going to be on the backs of expectations of the hardware being built up (that IGN article probably did more harm than good). At E3, the games are not going to look like a generational leap forward. They will look good, and a lot will look better than PS360 games, but it won't be what some people are expecting and/or hoping for.

 

[Lonely1]

The same way I didn't expect Wii games to look significantly better than what games looked like at the end of the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox cycle, which they didn't.

Wii =/= Wii U. Wii was 1999's hardware with a 50% overclock. My post from the other thread:

Again, the main issue the Wii was its archaic and exotic GPU architecture. Had they chosen the same power but now used on a modern GPU things would have gone on a different direction. Think on mobile GPUs, that what we would have gotten.

Now, there's zero chance that that will be repeated with Wii U. On the worst case, we are getting a Dx10.1 GPU, which is feature wise a gen ahead of Ps3's RSX.

 

[Übermatik]

My point was it's foolish to try to spin the article as something it's not. Nothing was missing or taken out of context, it was clear as day.

If he said "The Wii U blows the current gen out of the water. Huge leap!" Nobody hear would be dissecting the article and try to find some subliminal meaning that's not there.

You've just used your own argument against you? The wording isn't clear as day at all. It's very vague, in fact. What does 'on par' mean in technical terms? Is this with the Pad streaming the game world twice on top of the TV output as well? Is he talking about hardware build, or system specs? CPU clock speeds? What?

We don't know, and thus we're sat here 'dissecting' the article because of this.

 

[DarkChild]

This on par thing is pretty generic...
I mean he said on par with Ps3 and 360.
Well if we look in detail the Ps3 is more powerful than the 360.

So something cannot really be on par with two things that aren't on par with each other.

Yes they can. PS3 and 360 are on par.

 

[EDarkness]

The same way I didn't expect Wii games to look significantly better than what games looked like at the end of the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox cycle, which they didn't.

People had every reason to believe the Wii was going to be "weak". It was written all over the place. No press real releases about power, Nintendo avoiding the subject about even basic graphic capability, no tech demos, bullshots of Red Steel, etc. This is not the case this time. They've shown demos, talked about capabilities, others have talked about capabilities, etc. Not the same situation as with the Wii at all.

 

[IdeaMan]

Not until well after he was confirmed was there an attempt to explain how what he said could fit with what we had already heard and even then there were people who were still hostile to the information.

As for getting on the nerves of people I have been away from the thread for a couple of days but prior to that there was days of people getting exited because you announced that you would be bringing new runours.

Well i'm sorry for Arkam or anyone if some in this thread were hard on him/them, it's an entertainment guys, take all this in a more light-hearted way
It's clearly very passionate around here, people just need to take their time to read all these kind of message ("leaks") fully, put them under the context perspective, question further the poster if they have some misunderstandings, before jumping to hastily conclusions like "arkam stated wii u = 0,8 x xbox360".

 

[blu]

Like I said previously my post had absolutley nothing to do with whether WiiU will be powerful or not but solely to do with Arkham being called a liar and such whereass you are practically deified in here.

Hyperbolic a tad? I've seen more than a few posts questioning IdeaMan's integrity in this thread. I'm sure you'd be able to track those down (if you've forgotten about them).

If you really try to recall, though, Arkam had his 'posting hygiene' issues:
(1) the factual way of stating his (obviously) 2nd hand info, combined with
(2) his infrequent 'drive-by' style of posting.

Raising him to some status of official 'WiiU speculation threads martyrdom' is a bit too much. I, for one, would not mind his continued participation in this thread, if he ever cared to resurface, and definitely would love to hear more about the hinted difficulties his company had in their ps360-originating ports from a purely technical standpoint.

 

[suracity]

Not until well after he was confirmed was there an attempt to explain how what he said could fit with what we had already heard and even then there were people who were still hostile to the information.

As for getting on the nerves of people I have been away from the thread for a couple of days but prior to that there was days of people getting exited because you announced that you would be bringing new runours.

No the second part is not true. Back then many gaffers questioned IdeaMan's credibility and asked him to check his credibility with a Mod. But because he is not a dev so there is no real way for Mod to check. I didn't check thread frequently at that time. But later according to Ace IdeaMan pm-ed with Iherre and he seemed to agree that IdeaMan knows quite a bit about the system. Then less people question and take what he said as some hints about inside info.

 

[Glorified G]

You've just used your own argument against you? The wording isn't clear as day at all. It's very vague, in fact. What does 'on par' mean in technical terms? Is this with the Pad streaming the game world twice on top of the TV output as well? Is he talking about hardware build, or system specs? CPU clock speeds? What?

We don't know, and thus we're sat here 'dissecting' the article because of this.

No i'm not, you said this

You know, I don't think Vigil were saying the Wii U is underpowered, or on par with the PS3/360. They were talking about the game itself.

And he wasn't talking about just the game itself. He specifically mentioned the hardware.
There would be no "dissecting" if the quote was overwhelmingly positive and you know it.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Wii =/= Wii U. Wii was 1999's hardware with a 50% overclock. My post from the other thread:

Exactly, Flipper was designed in 1999, and the GameCube has a whole sometime during the late 1990s. Wii is simply an overclocked GameCube with more RAM.

ATI on the design of Flipper: http://cube.ign.com/articles/099/099520p1.html

IGNcube: You say you began talking to Nintendo® in 1998. So from white paper designs and initial design to final mass production silicon how long was the development process?

Greg Buchner: Well, there was a period of time where we were in the brainstorm period, figuring out what to build, what's the right thing to create. We spent a reasonable amount of time on that, a really big chunk of 1998 was spend doing that, figuring out just what [Flipper] was going to be. In 1999 we pretty much cranked out the gates, cranked out the silicon and produced the first part. In 2000 we got it ready for production, so what you saw at Space World last year was basically what became final silicon.

We've probably tweaked it a bunch since then and even [after the September 14 Japan launch] other versions are being tweaked. It will forever be in a cost production mode, so to say there is final silicon is something that doesn't really happen because these products live for so long. All the tweaking is for costs, everything for the last six months or even more than that has been related to getting the cost down. So over time, you know it's debuting at $199 obviously that's not the end game. We want to keep pushing the price lower and lower. So we'll continue to help NEC and their cost production efforts.

 

[Van Owen]

People had every reason to believe the Wii was going to be "weak". It was written all over the place. No press real releases about power, Nintendo avoiding the subject about even basic graphic capability, no tech demos, bullshots of Red Steel, etc. This is not the case this time. They've shown demos, talked about capabilities, others have talked about capabilities, etc. Not the same situation as with the Wii at all.

I actually remember retards on IGN telling me that Wii games would look great because Shrek DVDs looked awesome even though they were only 480p lol.

Nintendo does still avoid talking about what Wii U is capable of though. It's basically "we now have HD graphics check that box" nonsense. And didn't Miyamoto say it was comparable to what is out now too?

Again, the demos don't lead me to believe the system is going to be substantially more powerful than what is currently available.

I think the Zelda demo looks great and I plan on buying Wii U day 1 like I have with every Nintendo systems, but I don't think it's an impossibility that something similar could be made with 360 hardware.

 

[pieatorium]

No the second part is not true. Back then many gaffers questioned IdeaMan's credibility and asked him to check his credibility with a Mod. But because he is not a dev so there is no real way for Mod to check. I didn't check thread frequently at that time. But later according to Ace IdeaMan pm-ed with Iherre and he seemed to agree that IdeaMan knows quite a bit about the system. Then less people question and take what he said as some hints about inside info.

I didn't mention anything about that in that post but there is still a severe difference between being sceptical and being outright hostile.

 

[Roo]

Didn't the first generation of PS360 games looked like prettier Xbox/PS2 games?
couldn't the same happen with Wii U once the developers get to know the system?
I mean, there's a HUGE difference between Uncharted: Drake's fortune and The Last Of Us
idk... all these ups and downs about Wii U's power is getting on my nerves

 

[Van Owen]

Exactly, Flipper was designed in 1999, and the GameCube has a whole sometime during the late 1990s. Wii is simply an overclocked GameCube with more RAM.

ATI on the design of Flipper: http://cube.ign.com/articles/099/099520p1.html

So Wii has a GPU architecture designed in 1999 and released in 2006, and Wii U has a GPU architecture designed in 2008 and released in 2012?

 

[daakusedo]

I'm wondering in kid icarus intensity system how will be the successor of "it looks worse than the ps360 version".

 

[Anth0ny]

Didn't the first generation of PS360 games looked like prettier Xbox/PS2 games?
couldn't the same happen with Wii U once the developers get to know the system?
I mean, there's a HUGE difference between Uncharted: Drake's fortune and The Last Of Us
idk... all these ups and downs about Wii U's power is getting on my nerves

Or Perfect Dark Zero vs. any fps since

Or GTAIV vs. GTAV... like night and day.

 

[schuelma]

You're going to see the same kind of craziness this time and a lot of it is going to be on the backs of expectations of the hardware being built up (that IGN article probably did more harm than good). At E3, the games are not going to look like a generational leap forward. They will look good, and a lot will look better than PS360 games, but it won't be what some people are expecting and/or hoping for.

Sounds right.

 

[Lonely1]

So Wii has a GPU architecture designed in 1999 and released in 2006, and Wii U has a GPU architecture designed in 2008 and released in 2012?

Wii GPU was designed before a mayor paradigm shift in GPU design, one that is still used by GPUs today. Yes.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Honestly, nice IQ and heavier AA would go a long way to making games look better.

Naruto UNS would be inarguably one of the best looking games this generation if it had more AA.

 

[EDarkness]

I actually remember retards on IGN telling me that Wii games would look great because Shrek DVDs looked awesome even though they were only 480p lol.

Nintendo does still avoid talking about what Wii U is capable of though. It's basically "we now have HD graphics check that box" nonsense. And didn't Miyamoto say it was comparable to what is out now too?

Again, the demos don't lead me to believe the system is going to be substantially more powerful than what is currently available.

I think the Zelda demo looks great and I plan on buying Wii U day 1 like I have with every Nintendo systems, but I don't think it's an impossibility that something similar could be made with 360 hardware.

Well, in their defense, the whole system is in a state of flux. The video with the Vigil director even stated as much, so I doubt they could even give people an idea about how much is under the hood (though, I imagine they're getting closer to that). Dev kits are still changing and looks like there may even be one more iteration before the final.

Miyamoto talking about the hardware I took to simply mean we can all expect what we have now. Which is what they've been trying to stress from day one. People don't need to worry about whether or not the system will look good. Though, holding back some games does kinda make you wonder since the Vigil guys said they had the game working on the hardware, but it could be a case of them knowing that if they show games that look the same it may come back to bite them, so they'll wait until they have their own flagship game to show off the technical aspects of the system. Look what happened in the Nintendo E3 thread. It was a madhouse with people saying games looked like 360 games (that actually were 360 games). So the game reveal is going to have to be good. I think we all know that.

Anyway, this is simply my interpretation of the situation. There's just too much we don't know and it's hard to believe it's been almost a year since we first started talking about this and we don't know much more than we did back then.

 

[blu]

So Wii has a GPU architecture designed in 1999 and released in 2006, and Wii U has a GPU architecture designed in 2008 and released in 2012?

Aside from the fact a design from 2012 cannot launch in a 2012 product, the advancements in GPU architectures from the 2008-2012 period are not even in the same ballpark of significance as those made between 1999 and 2006.

 

[wsippel]

So Wii has a GPU architecture designed in 1999 and released in 2006, and Wii U has a GPU architecture designed in 2008 and released in 2012?

After more than two years in development, the Wii U GPU wasn't finished until June 2011 or later. It's more modern than Northern Islands.

 

[zoukka]

Why do you think that they couldn't have developed TP before WW?

TP is bigger and has a lot more unique assets. They didn't even have time to properly finish WW at the time...

 

[Roo]

Or Perfect Dark Zero vs. any fps since

Or GTAIV vs. GTAV... like night and day.

I didn't know GTA IV looked so shitty :O
Anyway, the first year will be the toughest
so here I am hoping the guys at Nintendo have some tricks under their sleeve