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[ozfunghi]

You're getting confused here. The CPU doesn't render any viewpoint, the GPU does that. (1) Any extra use of the CPU when producing two scenes will be marginal. More than made up for by the fact that it'll be more powerful and won't have to process sound, (2) 360 uses at least 16% of its CPU (1 thread) for sound processing.

1/ Thanks, that's basically what i thought. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36492344&postcount=12150

2/ Thanks, i didn't know it was such a big chunk of resources! I always assumed it would be somewhere between 5-10%.

 

[wsippel]

1/ Thanks, that's basically what i thought. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36492344&postcount=12150

2/ Thanks, i didn't know it was such a big chunk of resources! I always assumed it would be somewhere between 5-10%.

Sound processing is often underestimated. We're talking realtime 3D surround mixing with up to several dozen channels, dozens or even hundreds of compressed samples, not to mention sample rate conversions and effects. The audio thread is typically the highest priority thread as well and needs privileged memory access, as stutter or other audio artifacts are usually far more noticable and distracting than framerate drops. Our ears are more unforgiving than our eyes.

 

[Nibel]

Our ears are more unforgiving than our eyes.

After reading through your post and thinking about it I have to say I agree with your conclusion. I notice sound problems instantly. Good point.

 

[aeroslash]

Sound processing is often underestimated. We're talking realtime 3D surround mixing with up to several dozen channels, dozens or even hundreds of compressed samples, not to mention sample rate conversions and effects. The audio thread is typically the highest priority thread as well and needs privileged memory access, as stutter or other audio artifacts are usually far more noticable and distracting than framerate drops. Our ears are more unforgiving than our eyes.

So, even if the CPU as you said ends being a little bit more powerful than the 360, having a separate chip (is it confirmed?) for the audio, means the CPU will run about 15% more free than the x360 one? That's already a nice improvement, isn't it?

 

[magash]

Sound processing is often underestimated. We're talking realtime 3D surround mixing with up to several dozen channels, dozens or even hundreds of compressed samples, not to mention sample rate conversions and effects. The audio thread is typically the highest priority thread as well and needs privileged memory access, as stutter or other audio artifacts are usually far more noticable and distracting than framerate drops. Our ears are more unforgiving than our eyes.

I concur. I recently brought out my PlayStation One from storage and plugged in Metal Gear Solid. The graphics are outdated by today's standards but what really broke the immersion for me was the sound kept on skipping (I think it's because the CD has many scratches on it). I couldn't play it for more than an hour because more often than not the audio just ceases or sometimes goes silent. It was really frustrating.

 

[klier]

Is it healthy to check these speculation threads three times a day for months?

I'm slowly going insane....

 

[ozfunghi]

So, even if the CPU as you said ends being a little bit more powerful than the 360, having a separate chip (is it confirmed?) for the audio, means the CPU will run about 15% more free than the x360 one? That's already a nice improvement, isn't it?

It's confirmed to have an audio DSP so, yes.

 

[wsippel]

So, even if the CPU as you said ends being a little bit more powerful than the 360, having a separate chip (is it confirmed?) for the audio, means the CPU will run about 15% more free than the x360 one? That's already a nice improvement, isn't it?

Yes, it's confirmed, and yes, it frees up some ressources. But I don't know the DSP specs. It probably does mixing, sample rate conversions and a couple of effects. DSPs typically also have local buffers to relieve the memory bus. If the DSP supports on the fly sample decompression (which is something previous Nintendo DSPs did as far as I'm aware), it would also either free up some RAM or save even more processing power.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Then maybe you should actually watch the far more impressive Garden demo for yourself. Just make sure you watch the full version from the showfloor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Nsa06KRLo

I didn't notice all the texture pop-ups and framerate hits before. The transparency and snow looks better than anything on consoles now, but if this is any indication of final performance I'm beginning to see why some devs are saying it's better in some areas and worse in others.

 

[aeroslash]

It's confirmed to have an audio DSP so, yes.

Thanks!

Yes, it's confirmed, and yes, it frees up some ressources. But I don't know the DSP specs. It probably does mixing, sample rate conversions and a couple of effects. DSPs typically also have local buffers to relieve the memory bus. If the DSP supports on the fly sample decompression (which is something previous Nintendo DSPs did as far as I'm aware), it would also either free up some RAM or save even more processing power.

Thanks for that! And now the tricky question..Can you provide an example of what a cpu can do with that extra power? Maybe a little better AI or some extra physics?

I didn't notice all the texture pop-ups and framerate hits before. The transparency and snow looks better than anything on consoles now, but if this is any indication of final performance I'm beginning to see why some devs are saying it's better in some areas and worse in others.

The garden demo on the sowfloor was different that the conference one, so i'm sure it's safe to say that that demo was made really quickly and upgraded as E3 approached. Maybe with some additional weeks, the texture pop-up wouldn't be noticeable.

I other words...i don't know what's so special on the snow..

 

[TwilightPrincess]

I didn't notice all the texture pop-ups and framerate hits before. The transparency and snow looks better than anything on consoles now, but if this is any indication of final performance I'm beginning to see why some devs are saying it's better in some areas and worse in others.

The demo was rushed... it speaks for itself that there were two versions. That said it runs on a very old devkit. I think with all optimations done we could at least expect those graphics with a smoother framerate and no texture popups. Just my thoughts. Would be nice to see an updatet demo at E3 (this time in directfeed please)

 

[MadOdorMachine]

I other words...i don't know what's so special on the snow..

I thought it was neat that the bird kept knocking the snowflakes off and the way the snow reacted to the bird walking thru it at the end. Maybe that's not so special though? The only games I can remember snow in was Lost Planet and Uncharted 2 and my memory isn't that great with the physics.

 

[cyberheater]

You're getting confused here. The CPU doesn't render any viewpoint, the GPU does that.

I'm not getting confused. From a simplified perspective, the GPU mearly responds to rendering commands. The CPU has to set up all the world geometry, animation, collision detection, calculate all the particle and light locations and a ton of other stuff and then it sends out the calls to the GPU.

If you've got a screen and a padlet showing two different viewpoints. It has to do all that stuff twice.

 

[TwilightPrincess]

I thought it was neat that the bird kept knocking the snowflakes off and the way the snow reacted to the bird walking thru it at the end. Maybe that's not so special though? The only games I can remember snow in was Lost Planet and Uncharted 2 and my memory isn't that great with the physics.

Yes, i also liked that scene at the end, looks very nice.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

The demo was rushed... it speaks for itself that there were two versions. That said it runs on a very old devkit. I think with all optimations done we could at least expect those graphics with a smoother framerate and no texture popups. Just my thoughts. Would be nice to see an updatet demo at E3 (this time in directfeed please)

You know for sure it was rushed? I know some of the third party games were, but I thought the bird and Zelda demo had a little more time in the oven. Regardless, it doesn't look terrible, it's just a bit disappointing. In the end, the games are what matters for me. If Nintendo can get third parties on board as well as secure some exclusives, I'll be more than happy.

 

[DCKing]

I'm not getting confused. From a simplified perspective, the GPU mearly responds to rendering commands. The CPU has to set up all the world geometry, animation, collision detection, calculate all the particle and light locations and a ton of other stuff and then it sends out the calls to the GPU.

If you've got a screen and a padlet showing two different viewpoints. It has to do all that stuff twice.

No, you're wrong.

If you have calculated all colisions/locations/everything about the scene, why would you have to calculate it all again if you're rendering another viewpoint of the same scene? You really don't seem to be understanding this.

 

[ozfunghi]

I'm not getting confused. From a simplified perspective, the GPU mearly responds to rendering commands. The CPU has to set up all the world geometry, animation, collision detection, calculate all the particle and light locations and a ton of other stuff and then it sends out the calls to the GPU.

If you've got a screen and a padlet showing two different viewpoints. It has to do all that stuff twice.

And most of that stuff only has to be calculated once, even if it's rendered from different perspectives. So you are wrong, it doesn't need to do all that stuff twice.

You know for sure it was rushed?

When the showfloor version differs so much from the version showed during the conference, i think that's a safe assumption.

http://www.nintengen.com/2011/06/wii-u-garden-demo-had-better-graphics.html

 

[ElFly]

Bird demo was probably finished just in time for E3. Remember that a recording of it was shown at the keynote, and it differs on a lot of details with the one that was on the floor the next day (the recorded one has a lot of less details).

Chances are, Nintendo wanted to show it, it wasn't completely ready so they taped what they had and gave it to reggie/iwata to put together the presentation, and then kept working on it to have it ready for the on hands demo.

 

[TwilightPrincess]

You know for sure it was rushed? I know some of the third party games were, but I thought the bird and Zelda demo had a little more time in the oven. Regardless, it doesn't look terrible, it's just a bit disappointing. In the end, the games are what matters for me. If Nintendo can get third parties on board as well as secure some exclusives, I'll be more than happy.

I think it was Iwata that said the Zelda Demo was put together in a very short timeframe (few weeks?). It was an answer to the question if Nintendo would have problems making HD Games. Reggie told us at E3 that the demos run on an outdatet Devkit. And like i and others stated before, there were two different versions of the Garden Demo which looks like they rushed it. I don´t know it for shure, but otherwise it makes no sense for me.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

And most of that stuff only has to be calculated once, even if it's rendered from different perspectives.

Depends how different is different. One screen shows an area from a first person perspective while the other shows it from an overhead perspective, a lot would be the same. TV shows what you're doing, pad lets you see what your AI ally is doing, maybe a lot is different if you're not always right next to each other.

 

[Krev]

Don't get me wrong - I don't dislike those styles, and you won't find me bashing them for it. But - and I know that this will sound sappy - the Wind Waker's style was very effective for creating moments that were very emotionally touching. I can immediately think of several moments from Wind Waker that grab my heartstrings in a very effective manner, but for Twilight Princess, I have to sit and think for a bit.

I know what you mean. Wind Waker's world had so much charm and it felt special to be a part of. Parts of Twilight Princess were striking, but parts were very bland.
The art style really helped connect the player emotionally with Link, too. The super expressive eyes were perfect for a silent protagonist. He felt relatable. On the other hand, the Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword Link is a dumb mannequin. I never felt like he was an extension of myself.
He really should have spoken in those games.

 

[bgassassin]

I'm no expert, but this sounds highly inefficient, and detrimental to get 3rd party ports. I guess the Nintendo designed stuff has more to do with running GC and Wii games without latency. But then again, I know nothing about this.

Also just a quick questio of n: Do we even know which Chip design was used before cusomization began? Isn't the current speculated chip to start from an educated guess at best?

You're right, these things could very well deal with BC though I would assume this doesn't. I'm trying to keep people from getting too hung up on what me or wsippel came up with because it's not fact and shouldn't be taken as such. We were just trying to fill in the holes based on what Nintendo's personal features could be. That's what people should be focusing on as to me it sounded like a traditional GPU with Nintendo-centric additions. So I would heavily suggest speculating on what they may have added, not what we came up with.

And we have no true idea what the base is. All we know is that an underclocked RV770 was used in the dev kits.

Bg, apart from heat is there any other advantage to this mixed system? Also, other than fixed, what other options are there?

The whole thing seems so bizarre because couldn't Nintendo achieve the same thing with regular shaders and then 3rd parties could make use of them off the bat without reworking engines. And same for engine makers too of course. A bit of heat can be solved with better cooling case so it would seem to me that there would have to be a pretty damned big advantage to some sort of crazy spilt method.

And lastly.....is there something you know about something or other <nudge nudge wink wink>?

Cost and graphical efficiency. As I said a long time ago in the first thread, Wii U would be a modern Gamecube. We know that costs can shoot up real quick to gain more power. People like to say PS3 would be a lot cheaper without Blu-ray. The consensus was that PS3 cost $800 at launch. Some estimates had the BR drive as high as $300. If that were the case and they went with something that cost them like $50, even though they could have sold it for $399, the loss per console wouldn't be that much less than it was at $599.

Again don't get hung up on fixed, I mentioned a few times that they wouldn't have to only be fixed. At the same time these things could be related to how it functions as a memory controller. The way it acts as a Northbridge. Personal tweaks to Eyefinity for output to the controller. The interaction with the ARM I/O controller. Like I said it could be a number of things.

What I proposed was only based on the idea of the GPU not being a traditional one based also on when they started development. It's an idea of Nintendo still being Nintendo since at that stage of development they wouldn't be taking 3rd party input. And at the same time relating it to some things we've heard. It's definitely not something to be taken as accurate.

Is it healthy to check these speculation threads three times a day for months?

I'm slowly going insane....

Yes. It's when you reach double-digits like some people that you should start being concerned.

Yes, it's confirmed, and yes, it frees up some ressources. But I don't know the DSP specs. It probably does mixing, sample rate conversions and a couple of effects. DSPs typically also have local buffers to relieve the memory bus. If the DSP supports on the fly sample decompression (which is something previous Nintendo DSPs did as far as I'm aware), it would also either free up some RAM or save even more processing power.

I would also add that the ARM I/O doesn't get enough talk in how it will relieve the burden as well based on the patent.

I didn't notice all the texture pop-ups and framerate hits before. The transparency and snow looks better than anything on consoles now, but if this is any indication of final performance I'm beginning to see why some devs are saying it's better in some areas and worse in others.

I did. That's another part of why my take has always been that it can get better.

 

[ozfunghi]

Depends how different is different. One screen shows an area from a first person perspective while the other shows it from an overhead perspective, a lot would be the same. TV shows what you're doing, pad lets you see what your AI ally is doing, maybe a lot is different if you're not always right next to each other.

Like i said in an earlier post, if it's simply 2 viewports of the same scene, the AI and physics etc, need to be calculated even when not viewed. If you view them from 2 or 10 different viewports, won't make any difference. If we are talking about 2 different scenes, each displayed on a different screen, that's a totally different issue.

 

[cyberheater]

No, you're wrong.

If you have calculated all colisions/locations/everything about the scene, why would you have to calculate it all again if you're rendering another viewpoint of the same scene? You really don't seem to be understanding this.

It completely depends on what's being rendered. Worse case scenario. You are doubling up on the work required.
Also, it's not known how much CPU resource is required to stream stuff to the padlet. Hopefully, this is handled completely in hardware but you never know.

 

[ozfunghi]

It completely depends on what's being rendered.

That's the point: it doesn't. AI and physics need to be calculated even if the player is facing away from it at that point and not being rendered by the GPU. They still need to be calculated, and it doesn't matter if it's being rendered once or a dozen times, they need to be calculated just once.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

bgassassin - I might have missed it, but what do you think of Thraktor's speculation a few pages back, specifically the GPU?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36437354&postcount=11334

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36430804&postcount=11177

 

[DCKing]

It completely depends on what's being rendered.

No, it doesn't.

Normal console

1. CPU runs game logic
2. GPU renders one viewport

Wii U

1. CPU runs game logic
2. GPU renders one viewport
3. GPU renders another

It's really that simple.

Also, it's not known how much CPU resource is required to stream stuff to the padlet. Hopefully, this is handled completely in hardware but you never know.

Yeah we are talking about Nintendo lol. On-the-fly H.264 encoding of images on the CPU would be so them.

 

[bgassassin]

bgassassin - I might have missed it, but what do you think of Thraktor's speculation a few pages back, specifically the GPU?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36437354&postcount=11334

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36430804&postcount=11177

Agree with the CPU. Disagree with the GPU because I just don't see them using CUs. And since I don't see them using CUs, 32nm will most likely be the smallest process the GPU would use.

Yeah we are talking about Nintendo lol. On-the-fly H.264 encoding of images on the CPU would be so them.

The patent showed a hardware codec. This is another thing beside the ARM and audio DSP that should help alleviate the CPU/GPU.

 

[DCKing]

The patent showed a hardware codec. This is another thing beside the ARM and audio DSP that should help alleviate the CPU/GPU.

It still surprises me that Nintendo has such a conventional setup for streaming to the Upad. Where did you get confirmation that there's an I/O processor in there? I figured there would be one seeing how the Wii put one to good use.

 

[bgassassin]

It still surprises me that Nintendo has such a conventional setup for streaming to the Upad. Where did you get confirmation that there's an I/O processor in there? I figured there would be one seeing how the Wii put one to good use.

The patent. If you go back and check it out, the I/O controller at least in the patent plays a rather significant role in Wii U. It also talked about the controller and console having hardware codecs. At least based on that, Nintendo seemed to do a lot keep the CPU and GPU free to do what it's primarily supposed to do.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Agree with the CPU. Disagree with the GPU because I just don't see them using CUs. And since I don't see them using CUs, 32nm will most likely be the smallest process the GPU would use.

Are you talking about heatsinks?

 

[DCKing]

Are you talking about heatsinks?

CU is short for compute unit, which is the term AMD uses for the groups of shader/other stuff processors they put on their Southern Islands line of graphics chips. For example, the HD7770 has 10 compute units. Each unit has 4 texture units and 16 shaders with 4 'processors' each. Therefore the HD7770 has 640 SPUs and 40 texture units.

Compute units are different from what AMD used before, which was usually called VLIW5 or VLIW4. CUs are considered to be somewhat less efficient because the changes they made in the design seemed to focus more on improving performance in general purpose computation instead of improving graphics performance.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

CU is short for compute unit, which is the term AMD uses for the groups of shader/other stuff processors they put on their Southern Islands line of graphics chips. For example, the HD7770 has 10 compute units. Each unit has 4 texture units and 16 shaders with 4 'processors' each. Therefore the HD7770 has 640 SPUs and 40 texture units.

Compute units are different from what AMD used before, which was usually called VLIW5 or VLIW4. CUs are considered to be somewhat less efficient because the changes they made in the design seemed to focus more on improving performance in general purpose computation instead of improving graphics performance.

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess CUs make for smaller chips then? Since Nintendo are making a customized chip, couldn't they use VLIW5 or VLIW4 instead or would this not be possible?

 

[cyberheater]

No, it doesn't.

Normal console

1. CPU runs game logic
2. GPU renders one viewport

Wii U

1. CPU runs game logic
2. GPU renders one viewport
3. GPU renders another

It's really that simple.

Really. If it's that simple. Where does the GPU get all the information from to render the scene. It has to be generated by the game engine which uses CPU.

 

[TheCongressman1]

It has to be generated by the game engine which uses CPU.

Yes, once.

 

[wsippel]

I would also add that the ARM I/O doesn't get enough talk in how it will relieve the burden as well based on the patent.

What patent? Sure, the ARM core takes load off the CPU as well, but is there anything hinting at a more capable IO processor this time?

 

[TheCongressman1]

I know what you mean. Wind Waker's world had so much charm and it felt special to be a part of. Parts of Twilight Princess were striking, but parts were very bland.
The art style really helped connect the player emotionally with Link, too. The super expressive eyes were perfect for a silent protagonist. He felt relatable. On the other hand, the Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword Link is a dumb mannequin. I never felt like he was an extension of myself.
He really should have spoken in those games.

The emotion doesn't have much to do with how Link looks, it's just the tone they wanted to go with. They could make a more realistic Link just as expressive if they wanted to.

 

[bgassassin]

What patent? Sure, the ARM core takes load off the CPU as well, but is there anything hinting at a more capable IO processor this time?

Remember the patent that came out last year? It talks a lot about what the I/O controller will do. And it seems to be quite a bit from what I remember.

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess CUs make for smaller chips then? Since Nintendo are making a customized chip, couldn't they use VLIW5 or VLIW4 instead or would this not be possible?

No, the fab size is what makes it smaller and in turn probably allowed them to implement things with the CUs that they couldn't before because it would have caused the die size to be too big. AMD left things out of Cayman because using the 40nm process would have made it even bigger than it ended up.

While it's most likely that it would use VLIW5, I'm not willing to rule out the possibility that it's not VLIW-based just like how Xenos is not VLIW-based.

 

[Thraktor]

Since you bring up the RT/PT subject: the issue with that is not so much in the amount or rays that need to be cast, the amount of bounces, or the parallelization of the problem (it's well parallelizable). It's in the narrowing down of potential ray targets. Apparently the 'bruteforce' approach to check every ray against every poly in the scene is not an option outside of simple examples (bad linear complexity), so RT's 'holy grail' has pretty much been an efficient search algorithm, with the added condition it should be of low repartitioning overhead (so it could handle dynamic scenes, not just 'still lifes').

That said, I'm not expecting any RT-dedicated transistors in the WiiU ; )

Yeah, a brute-force search would obviously be horrendously inefficient. As far as I understand it, most of the dedicated ray-tracing hardware is focussed on calculating traversal along the KD-tree (or similar) which represents the geometry. Actually generating and updating such a tree is a different matter, though, and although the paper I linked to describes the hardware being used for dynamic scenes, I would imagine the extent of movement is pretty limited, as an arbitrarily complex dynamic scene would effectively require the tree to be recomputed from scratch each frame.

What I was imagining would be a programmable traversal unit on the GPU to accelerate the traversal calculations, and then leaving the generation and updating of the actual geometry tree up to the developers, to implement on the SPUs/CPU using whatever techniques or algorithms they want. Not going to happen on the Wii U, but interesting to theorise about.

 

[IdeaMan]

Again don't get hung up on fixed, I mentioned a few times that they wouldn't have to only be fixed. At the same time these things could be related to how it functions as a memory controller. The way it acts as a Northbridge. Personal tweaks to Eyefinity for output to the controller. The interaction with the ARM I/O controller. Like I said it could be a number of things.

I was writing an answer similar to that to explain how a GPU could receive "special Nintendo features" without being a strange hybrid component with TEV, fixed graphical functions, etc, that seems to scare some people. I think i talked about a more powerful, an evolution of the starlet in this message, and a customized GPU + starlet 2 (including for example a lot of refinements for the streaming) could simply be the "Nintendo featured GPU".

 

[DCKing]

Really. If it's that simple. Where does the GPU get all the information from to render the scene. It has to be generated by the game engine which uses CPU.

How about from the same place the first viewport gets it.

Spoiler

Please stop arguing this

 

[Sadist]

Two more months... arggghh

 

[Forsaken82]

Has anyone else thought that Nintendo should buy THQ..? $40m or $50m should be enough to buy the publisher and all studios I reckon. It would give them some much needed Western developers as well as an extra publishing arm in the West. They've got plenty of strong IPs with the likes of Saints Row, Darksiders, Metro, various wrestling IPs and partnerships, Red Faction, UFC and de Blob.

Seems like a no-brainer to me. Buy them, finish the multiplatform titles and then have your studios working on the Wii, DS, 3DS and U exclusively.

Definitely worth more than that. Volition is easily worth over 100million on their own (especially after the success of saints row 3).

 

[cyberheater]

Yes, once.

As an example. If you're playing an RPG and your using the padlet to virtually pick a lock. You're going to need to render two completely different scenes. I could think of other examples.

 

[DCKing]

As an example. If you're playing an RPG and your using the padlet to virtually pick a lock. You're going to need to render two completely different scenes. I could think of other examples.

Yes, but we weren't talking about different scenes were we?

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Game Speculation:
I would love that Garden Demo as a quick demo included on the U for a remix of Duck Hunt. Let me us the padlet or the Wiimote and walk around and shoot things or catch fish. Can just be a big single stage with multiple things to do.

BTW, this thread is so much easier now that I gave up on reading/skimming thru everything. There's always someone who comes in every 5 pages and asks for an update and if something big drops, there will be another thread about it. I'm really not missing anything.

 

[Coolwhip]

I'm in an awkward spot, I have been looking forward to E3 for months like all the crazy people in this thread. But now I found out I have a medical procedure in June

Spoiler

(they're going to tinker in my heart, it should be nothing serious but still creepy)

. I'm being torn between emotions pretty badly. I wanted June to come fast almost since E3 2011, but now I'm not sure anymore >_<

 

[cyberheater]

Yes, but we weren't talking about different scenes were we?

Okay. Even if we had something fairly simple like the main screen is rendering a viewpoint from a first person shooter and the padlet is rendering a spy cam mounted on a remote control car. You've still a fair bit of work to do CPU wise. And what happens when the spy cam goes into a room where that you're not in.

You've got to calculate geometry for both scenes. Calculate animations, different collision detections, cull objects against the viewing frustum to improve performance etc... Basically set up two completely different scenes. It'a a lot of work.

Unless you're displaying something really simple (2d menu's) on the padlet or pausing the action on the main screen. Performance is going to take a nose dive.

 

[darthdago]

I'm in an awkward spot, I have been looking forward to E3 for months like all the crazy people in this thread. But now I found out I have a medical procedure in June

Spoiler

(they're going to tinker in my heart, it should be nothing serious but still creepy)

. I'm being torn between emotions pretty badly. I wanted June to come fast almost since E3 2011, but now I'm not sure anymore >_<

...wish u all the best for your medical procedure...

 

[TheCongressman1]

Unless you're displaying something really simple (2d menu's) on the padlet or pausing the action on the main screen. Performance is going to take a nose dive.

I don't think that will be the case at all. What you're talking about is pretty much like having split screen coop, except the other screen is on the controller.