Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto
- Thread starter AceBandage
- Start date
All of that plus aside from it not being good for gamers I can't possibly imagine it being good for developers. In no way shape or form, especially when all signs point to 720 & PS4 being digital download friendly. Add on to that the size and scope of games and DLC and this is going to be a problem.
Definitely deserving of more discussion.
AceBandage
Banned
We shall see.
Again, it'll depend on what feedback they get from third parties.
They'll want to be able to sell as much DLC as possible, and having a better solution for it would benefit them.
Again, it'll depend on what feedback they get from third parties.
They'll want to be able to sell as much DLC as possible, and having a better solution for it would benefit them.
Yeah, they won't do that on the Wii U. Unless they're really dumb.
They already fixed that on the 3DS, were DLC and downloads are automatically stored and read from the SD and on the Wii and DSi it was related to the way the hardware was designed, rather than they doing it on purpose.
They already fixed that on the 3DS, were DLC and downloads are automatically stored and read from the SD and on the Wii and DSi it was related to the way the hardware was designed, rather than they doing it on purpose.
I'm imagining sitting there, waiting to change memory disks, and having to keep track of what's on each one. Yeouch.
Wasn't the rumour that an important WiiU game from Sega "could" be one of the games they're going to axe?
I actually thought his answer wasn't that bad and quite on point for Pachter. Nintendo do have a formula, just like Apple does. If something works, they will keep using it until they need to change. Nintendo ARE slower than the other platform holders in getting into online, social and DD to the extent the others are. He wasn't saying anything bad about Nintendo unless you're being overly defensive.
This sounds like complete madness if true. And if we (and our friends) all need MySpace accounts for Wii U's social interaction, I guess I won't be using that part of their services and maybe I'll make my first "lol Nintendo" post
Blu, you said the same thing I did really. I wasn't defending these ultra high budget, high tech games and systems that turn out shit. I was just saying that those sell. Just look at Skyrim as another great case in point. That thing, on the PS3 especially, was a complete piece of shit and I'd have been embarrassed to have been the one responsible for that. Thing is, consumers do not care. If a fancy trailer can wow them and convince them that they are going to get the most amazing experience ever; read: a movie in a game, they're in like flynn and they'll put up with all manner of shit. Look again, at the 360 RROD fiasco. A high tech console that was totally and utterly broken and MS got away with it, and in fact some people bought 2, 3 or four systems.
Dignity and self respect as you're suggesting has no place in a world sustained by bullshit.
Empty bay takes up casing space thats already tiny as is
AceBandage
Banned
You keep saying DLC and that's true but the real problem is developers selling entire games digitally. And these true next gen games are going to exceed 30 gigs easily. Add the DLC on top of that and now you have developers who have these space requirements and the WiiU has no space they can count on, and with consumers picking their own drives they have varying speeds and specs too.
We shall see, that's for sure. But until we see we can speculate, and I can't think of a single good thing that's going to come from this. I think the storage dilemma is going to hurt WiiU far worse than any lack of power.
TheExplodingHead
Banned
USB 3.0 probably ain't happening. But I doubt it would be any faster than JTAG 360's load/read data off USB vs. the stock dvd drives or internal. Now, Nintendo may opt for a propietary DVD drive that loads slower than a 360 drive, like the PS3's Blu-Ray, but I doubt it. And certainly not enough to not see a huge loading difference between that and a USB drive. I guess I just hope Nintendo opts for a eSATA option or attachable option.
Compared to the complications that are in store, the Nintendo fixation on console size is really quite angering. But I see we've already discussed this.
It wouldn't cost a damn thing, and aid in the inevitable damage control when devs start throwing a fit.
I'm imagining how humorous it would be to see my Wii, my Wii U, and an external hard drive that matches them in size sitting nearby. The size effort would've been for naught, really.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The lack of a proper HDD is typically backwards Nintendo. They've got their reasons, but I guaranty it will burn them in the long run. It's classic short sightedness or disinterest to how technology and the industry is evolving.
Not sure I understand what you mean, haha. I was thinking along the lines of something like the 360 S drive, which is no bigger than a smartphone, really.
True. I still have a cartoonishly disproportionate size image of drives in my old brain
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Ah, my apologies, AzaK. I read your original post largely from the wrong side of the QWERTY.
But at the same time Microsoft did it the entire generation, and Sony adopted it with the Vita (which unlike the 3DS doesn't have internal memory and neither a small 2GB solution included).
Or the new iPad, the 64GB model costing $800+ and you can't use SD or USB or anything else (officially) to expand said storage.
At least Nintendo is giving people the chance of using any USB/SD/HDD rather than mandatory ones. That one-big storage won't be included (probably 2-4GB flash inside) it might open for problems with some developers, we'll see. In most cases, the mandatory installs on PS3 games were mostly to reduce loading times as close as possible to the Xbox 360 versions.
And for downloads, people will just plug any SD or USB, use it and if they want more just buy/plug another one. But guess to see how it will work will have to wait for/after E3.
For all we know, like the Xbox 360 USB solution, there could be limits like the 16GB cap and the up to 2 USB devices at the same time.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I understand why someone would want to use a SSD, so everything is fluid and fast in terms of bringing up the OS while in game or something and doing shit within the OS. But at the same time, I really wonder what their thought processes are because installing games, large file sizes for demos, betas, digital games, etc...is all going up and up and up.
Just seems like an oversight. I only say this because nintendo is all about accessibility and all that, I just find it weird that they'd force people to fend for themselves in terms of expensive sd cards or whatever else, or external drives.
AceBandage
Banned
He made a story about his "sources" on the Wii U that basically just summed up this thread. Word for word.
Also, the link's been taken down.
It's back.
But I'm not buying it, April Fools or not.
Nintendo would go for Facebook, for sure.
The thing is we all know that the 360 without a hard drive is next to worthless. But at least with the 360 there's the alternate sku with the big hard drive and a first party one you can buy to supplement your system if you bought the version without.
PS3 basically same thing.
iPads aren't made to play games that will be over 30 gigs in size.
The WiiU, if it wants these top end games and their DLC, is going to need storage space. Lots of it. Especially as this gen kicks off the digital distribution train. From the rumors popping up about 720 and PS4 being all about digital sales storage is looking pretty mandatory. Plus, blah blah used games are killing the industry blah blah from the devs. And of course consumers now saying things like they won't pay more than $400 for WiiU, which IMO is a reasonable stance for those consumers and a likely price point for WiiU. But you're basically going to need a $100 hard drive on top of that. Let that start spreading like how the Vita memory card issue did.
And that's all just on the business side. Then there's the technical stuff like TEH was talking about with WiiU most likely including a small amount of flash memory, how that's going to interact with games, loading times, disc switching, etc. When developers start taking advantage of the next gen hardware the size of games is going to balloon and if Ninty is using 25 gig discs there's definitely going to be disc switching.
All that is still secondary to the business aspect though. If devs require space and the WiiU doesn't have it or offer the opportunity for full game downloads that 720 and PS4 probably will... bad things. Bad things.
Well, it certainly wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that Nintendo could offer an external HDD with their brand on it. I dunno, there is just some reservation in me about using third-party with Nintendo.
I mean, they do sell a quality electronic. It's a matter of integrity that Nintendo fans seem to adhere to.
I mean, they do sell a quality electronic. It's a matter of integrity that Nintendo fans seem to adhere to.
During the PSOne era I would always buy first party PS memory cards. None of that Mad Catz stuff.
This is like having 38257630572035 different versions of third party memory cards available all with varying degrees of quality and specs. And yet still pretty much mandatory.
boyshine
Member
For ages people have been complaining about overly expensive proprietary storage solutions, and finally Nintendo is opening up for whatever external drive you want, and people still complain? There will be some internal memory (probably 8-16GB) and you have the option to expand with SDXC or USB HDD.
My guess is Nintendo is going to make this super easy to understand through the system interface. A menu window will pop up when you log in to the eShop explaining how a SD card or external USB harddrive is recommended if you want to download demos, games or movies from the service. The internal memory will however be enough for patches, apps and VC games.
I don't think it will matter as long as anyone can use any USB HDD. It didn't hurt the 360 with one SKU not having a HDD at all. It's one of those things where it's safe to assume that those who really want the extra content will have a USB drive connected. I know I've got a 1TB drive already reserved for my system.
Speaking for myself as an average consumer, I think the average consumer would be more comfortable buying a ready-to-go specially purposed HDD ala Apple, no matter how comprehensively Nintendo would try to explain a third-party solution. I don't think more advanced users have any qualms.
Again, speaking on behalf of the "dumb" consumer here (me).
If that's the case, I don't see what all the fuss is about. Does it literally have to be "in the box" for one to be satisfied?
It's not just you though.
How about all these soccer moms that bought a Wii, or anyone who bought a 360 addon HDD?
Now you'll have 5 year olds asking their parents for a WiiU. Parent goes to GameStop WalMart and buys it. Finds out that now they need a 3rd party HDD. I don't even think they sell those in GameStop and Walmart. So they have to go on NewEgg?
I can only picture my own moms face if she ever had to shop for a hard drive on NewEgg. Slackjawed and drooling staring at the screen with no idea of what she's looking at.
You still touting the whole "30GB in size", even when a few pages ago it was mentioned that many of this games are not 30GB in size, and the ones that are are either because of multi-audio or hi-res movies. Heck, name me 50 or 100 games that are currently 30GB on the PS3 or Xbox 360; heck name 50 that are 20GB.
The new iPad storage was a concern to many, because they're promoting everything around the higher-resolution; which takes a good space. So those that get a 4GB or 8GB models won't be able to store many content on that glorious resolution if they want to put more stuff on it; neither they have option to expand it. And when they do, they'll have to buy a separate/new device rather than just more memory.
And while posterior Xbox 360 units included bigger storage, all Xbox 360 games were and are developed with the mentality that there's no storage of any kind. Since originally, Xbox 360s didn't even included 256MB inside...and Microsoft only added it (then 512 and then 4GB) because it was needed for their firmware updates ; more than because developers needed memory.
They also added the USB solution, with a 16GB limit and 2-at the same time limit and can't be used for games that require HDDs.
The system (apparently) will have some sort of internal memory, so no need to convince "parents" to buy anything..immediately.
And why go to Newegg? That soccer mom that bought it at Wal-Mart can also buy 500GB-USB/HDDs at Wal-Mart for under $70. All are just "plug-and-play"; no installations or opening devices involved.
In terms of sales maybe but it's probably responsible for the limitations of patch sizes, and no mandatory installs (which made BF3 look like ass uninstalled, and lots of issues with texture streaming in UE3 games), and some games have less features without an HDD (like no coop in Halo Reach).
-Pyromaniac-
Member
ahh nvm,
I just don't want to have to have my ps3, wiiU, and an external drive all needed. One because the console can't play blurays and 2 because I'll need more memory. Just seems like a bit much.
The more and more I think about the Wii-U in terms of the things we're most likely getting, I begin to absolutely expect a VERY aggressively priced console. If we get what we've been speculating as the "minimum" we are likely to get and it's not aggressively priced, that will just look awful to me.
I just don't want to have to have my ps3, wiiU, and an external drive all needed. One because the console can't play blurays and 2 because I'll need more memory. Just seems like a bit much.
The more and more I think about the Wii-U in terms of the things we're most likely getting, I begin to absolutely expect a VERY aggressively priced console. If we get what we've been speculating as the "minimum" we are likely to get and it's not aggressively priced, that will just look awful to me.
I see what you mean, but actually I'm simply arguing in favour of a first-party solution, that could perhaps be bundled with a second SKU.
Exactly what I was thinking, at least as a best-case scenario.
boiled goose
good with gravy
What if my space is helping nintendo out with social networking functions on the WiiU, but not necessarily linking to myspace profiles like most people are assuming.
Im thinking help with developing online profiles (ie gamertags) that track playtimes, 'achievements', games played, etc. and how these interface with the games themselves and the overall online infrastructure.
No a facebook or myspace app for the WiiU, but integration of social networking into the console itself.
Im thinking help with developing online profiles (ie gamertags) that track playtimes, 'achievements', games played, etc. and how these interface with the games themselves and the overall online infrastructure.
No a facebook or myspace app for the WiiU, but integration of social networking into the console itself.
TheCongressman1
Member
Yeah, Nintendo isn't big on the social scene, but it doesn't take much to find out which one is more popular.
My mind still wonders because of what Reggie said about pricing..
http://allthingsd.com/20111222/nint...iday-and-says-what-he-really-thinks-of-zynga/
Reggie said:
But then again, it could be just Reggie spouting bullshit. The income named seems a bit silly. Who knows?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
1) reggie doesn't know shit, he is probably kept in the dark for a lot of things
2) under-promise and over-deliver is a strategy used in lots of places, so who knows.
bgassassin
Member
You understand the situation too well to fall under that classification. The true average consumer is most likely going to use SD cards to extend storage.
You're making it way more complicated than it will be. As I mentioned that mom will most like be purchasing SD cards. The HDD issue is more for us who do understand what's going on. Also Wal-Mart, Target, and Best Buy sell them so if a person just has to have one then and there they could go to one of them and buy one.
^I would argue that there are indeed average consumers who would be interested and need the HDD option, as my view of "average" is not necessarily "casual." I correlate average more with dudebro, enthusiast etc etc.
But anyways, you're right in respect to parents and the like.
But anyways, you're right in respect to parents and the like.
bgassassin
Member
But if they are interested in that option, then they will either already know where to get one or make the effort to learn where to get one. I'm not defending Nintendo's decision, but it's also not something that's complicated.
Yep..
Plus, it's going to be USB devices. Is not like parents will also need to know about SATA devices, screwdrivers, and RPM.
If they "need" an HDD, they'll go to any store, buy any from 8GB to 1TB (as long as there are no caps on the Wii U per se). Go back to their home plug it in and that's it. If some formatting is required, the system might probably tell you so the moment you plug it in.
I got you.
I'm not sure where these arguments are going, several seem to be overlapping and it's all quite confusing. Can we all agree that it's unfortunate but also not a big deal?
AceBandage
Banned
I got you.
I'm not sure where these arguments are going, several seem to be overlapping and it's all quite confusing. Can we all agree that it's unfortunate but also not a big deal?
That's how I see it.
Consumers know about expandable storage. Pretty much all phones and modern devices already do this.
They can pick up SD cards or HDDs anywhere.
I got you.
I'm not sure where these arguments are going, several seem to be overlapping and it's all quite confusing. Can we all agree that it's unfortunate but also not a big deal?
Not too big a deal.
I also tend to think that Nintendo will release their own branded memory product so that mommy shoppers will know to grab "that Nintendo memory thingy."
bgassassin
Member
And on top of that the prompt would most likely give an option to format it for you.
I got you.
I'm not sure where these arguments are going, several seem to be overlapping and it's all quite confusing. Can we all agree that it's unfortunate but also not a big deal?
The only real issue IMO is what I've been saying for awhile and has been said recently. USB 2.0 is not going to cut it if we are able to use external HDDs. USB 3.0 would be the best option since USB is the most familiar port. But I would be fine with eSATA as well.
What good are SD cards going to do with the size of DLC and full retail game downloads?
The problems are still
Consumer: Buying at GameStop will have to go elsewhere for an HDD. No matter where you buy you still need an HDD likely adding ~$100 to the cost of the system. There's also many options so doing your homework is involved in picking a brand, size, finding a good deal etc. making it way more complicated than just offering a sku with one built in or offering a first party solution.
Developer: So many large space requirements from full game digital sales to DLC to patches to mandatory installs etc. and you can't count on a WiiU user having the space where supposedly 720 and PS4 will be built for that. And with the WiiU users who have a HDD they'll have varying hard drive sizes and brands and speeds and specs that has to effect development somewhat. And wouldn't 3rd party HDDs kinda open the door for hackers?
Use: everything mentioned about load times, how data is shared between the flash memory and the HDD, USB 2.0 etc etc.
There is no positive in this situation. Except for Nintendo who takes another cheap avenue, but this is going to come back and bite them. It's potentially much more limiting than any lack of console power in our digitally distributed future.