A bad situation I could see is Nintendo recycling the same flash-to-SD solution the Wii had. Which would be horrible. In this case you'd save the DLC/DD on the USB HDD and whenever you wanted to play it, you could play it straight off the USB or load it into flash (if you have enough space) and play from there. The problem is speed, both ways.
If you load onto flash to play, first there's the space management issue depending on the size we're talking about, and coupled with that the annoying time it takes to load onto flash. So we're still talking about a arbitrary "waiting period" that has plagued Nintendo services for a long time. And if you're loading straight from USB, that's just another slowdown issue when it comes to loading, as well as potential DLC integration problems vs. the stock DVD Rom. It's not a good option for gamers.
All of that plus aside from it not being good for gamers I can't possibly imagine it being good for developers. In no way shape or form, especially when all signs point to 720 & PS4 being digital download friendly. Add on to that the size and scope of games and DLC and this is going to be a problem.
Definitely deserving of more discussion.
I don't know that it's canceled, but a lot of unnanounced stuff got the axe this past week at Sega.
Combined with the rumors that Sega axed "an important Wii U game" but with strict clarification from Sega that Sonic is going to stay one of their major franchises, it seems logical.
I actually thought his answer wasn't that bad and quite on point for Pachter. Nintendo do have a formula, just like Apple does. If something works, they will keep using it until they need to change. Nintendo ARE slower than the other platform holders in getting into online, social and DD to the extent the others are. He wasn't saying anything bad about Nintendo unless you're being overly defensive.
Nintendo is collaborating with Myspace on Wii U's social media according to NintendoEnthusiast.
Says it's not an April Fools day joke.
Forum post: http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/rumor-nintendo-collaborating-with-myspace-on-wii-u.250123161/
Link to article: http://www.nintendoenthusiast.com/myspace-nintendo-wii-u/
I want to think that it's OBVIOUSLY fake but the "lol nintendo" inside me makes me think anything is possible.
This is how things look at prima vista. Until you make the simple observation: something is terribly off with this setup.
(warning: things are getting very anecdotal from here through the end of this post)
Take for instance the Mass Effect franchise - one of the highlights of this gen's sci-fi (space-opera) RPGs - BioWare's saving grace for the genre, the return of space Jesus, etc. A franchise that has been made by this gen's textbook - by a competent sizable team, running on glorified modern middleware, giving the whole nine yards of that 'epic HD experience'. Do you want to know what the predominant thought of yours truly has been while LTTP-style progressing through ME's second installment over the past month? It's been: 'Nintendo would have never released this shit (and neither should have BioWare)'.
The sad part is, I can see all the gargantuan effort that went into the making of the game pretty - into all the assets and graphics bells and whistles - all of it. (Almost) none of those speak 'weak' or 'not given proper attention' to me, and yet, the sum of all those and the rest of the components somehow ended up as a buggy, patience-testing, cheap fan-servicing, cliche-ridden western equivalence of a 'J-RPG' when uttered in disdain by your neighbor next door. So why? Perhaps because by the time BW had finished with all those intricate parts, there were no resources left to actually polish it all to a level of a truly good game? So why did they release it like this? Here's my guess: 'Oh the HD AAA experience! The crowd is gonna eat it and love it like the fist one, so why bother producing a properly polished game?' And if that was the case, they surly were right. Despite the disturbingly-frequent mission-breaking bug where the player character gets stuck in the most trivial places. Despite the 'wtf were they thinking' 15s loading screens between the decks of your vessel. Despite the sub-20ish fps in some scenes. Despite the laughable teenage-targeting writing in some of the parts. Despite all that, the producers knew the game would fly. Because it was pre-tagged a goddamn 'AAA HD experience' from its conception.
So here's the deal: Dear publishers, the consumer should not give a rat's ass how much you spent on the development of a game, less so on its marketing campaign. It's the consumer's job to decide whether you ultimately delivered, while your job is to make sure the resources poured into the project resulted in a finished game. So you can drop that 'next-gen'/'HD AAA'/'AAA..A'/'Christ on a stick' mantra you've been chanting at the consumer. Doing so would only make you look less ridiculous.
Is there any logistical reason for there to not be at least an empty bay for a future proprietary HDD?
I'm imagining sitting there, waiting to change memory disks, and having to keep track of what's on each one. Yeouch.
We shall see.
Again, it'll depend on what feedback they get from third parties.
They'll want to be able to sell as much DLC as possible, and having a better solution for it would benefit them.
Yes, it'll load straight from the USB.
We don't really know how fast it'll be.
They maybe (hopefully) will upgrade to at least one USB 3.0, which would drastically reduce loading.
Empty bay takes up casing space thats already tiny as is
Compared to the complications that are in store, the Nintendo fixation on console size is really quite angering. But I see we've already discussed this.
It wouldn't cost a damn thing, and aid in the inevitable damage control when devs start throwing a fit.
I'm imagining how humorous it would be to see my Wii, my Wii U, and an external hard drive that matches them in size sitting nearby. The size effort would've been for naught, really.
Not sure I understand what you mean, haha. I was thinking along the lines of something like the 360 S drive, which is no bigger than a smartphone, really.
Ah, my apologies, AzaK. I read your original post largely from the wrong side of the QWERTY.Blu, you said the same thing I did really. I wasn't defending these ultra high budget, high tech games and systems that turn out shit. I was just saying that those sell. Just look at Skyrim as another great case in point. That thing, on the PS3 especially, was a complete piece of shit and I'd have been embarrassed to have been the one responsible for that. Thing is, consumers do not care. If a fancy trailer can wow them and convince them that they are going to get the most amazing experience ever; read: a movie in a game, they're in like flynn and they'll put up with all manner of shit. Look again, at the 360 RROD fiasco. A high tech console that was totally and utterly broken and MS got away with it, and in fact some people bought 2, 3 or four systems.
Dignity and self respect as you're suggesting has no place in a world sustained by bullshit.
But at the same time Microsoft did it the entire generation, and Sony adopted it with the Vita (which unlike the 3DS doesn't have internal memory and neither a small 2GB solution included).The lack of a proper HDD is typically backwards Nintendo. They've got their reasons, but I guaranty it will burn them in the long run. It's classic short sightedness or disinterest to how technology and the industry is evolving.
I understand why someone would want to use a SSD, so everything is fluid and fast in terms of bringing up the OS while in game or something and doing shit within the OS. But at the same time, I really wonder what their thought processes are because installing games, large file sizes for demos, betas, digital games, etc...is all going up and up and up.The lack of a proper HDD is typically backwards Nintendo. They've got their reasons, but I guaranty it will burn them in the long run. It's classic short sightedness or disinterest to how technology and the industry is evolving.
Nintendo is collaborating with Myspace on Wii U's social media according to NintendoEnthusiast.
Says it's not an April Fools day joke.
Forum post: http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/rumor-nintendo-collaborating-with-myspace-on-wii-u.250123161/
Link to article: http://www.nintendoenthusiast.com/myspace-nintendo-wii-u/
Disclaimer #2: I know a lot of people got upset last time we posted a rumor and everyone claimed it was from neogaf.
What's that supposed to mean?
He made a story about his "sources" on the Wii U that basically just summed up this thread. Word for word.
Also, the link's been taken down.
But at the same time Microsoft did it the entire generation, and Sony adopted it with the Vita (which unlike the 3DS doesn't have internal memory and neither a small 2GB solution included).
Or the new iPad, the 64GB model costing $800+ and you can't use SD or USB or anything else (officially) to expand said storage.
At least Nintendo is giving people the chance of using any USB/SD/HDD rather than mandatory ones. That one-big storage won't be included (probably 2-4GB flash inside) it might open for problems with some developers, we'll see. In most cases, the mandatory installs on PS3 games were mostly to reduce loading times as close as possible to the Xbox 360 versions.
And for downloads, people will just plug any SD or USB, use it and if they want more just buy/plug another one. But guess to see how it will work will have to wait for/after E3.
For all we know, like the Xbox 360 USB solution, there could be limits like the 16GB cap and the up to 2 USB devices at the same time.
Well, it certainly wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that Nintendo could offer an external HDD with their brand on it. I dunno, there is just some reservation in me about using third-party with Nintendo.
I mean, they do sell a quality electronic.
I understand why someone would want to use a SSD, so everything is fluid and fast in terms of bringing up the OS while in game or something and doing shit within the OS. But at the same time, I really wonder what their thought processes are because installing games, large file sizes for demos, betas, digital games, etc...is all going up and up and up.
Just seems like an oversight. I only say this because nintendo is all about accessibility and all that, I just find it weird that they'd force people to fend for themselves in terms of expensive sd cards or whatever else, or external drives.
The lack of a proper HDD is typically backwards Nintendo. They've got their reasons, but I guaranty it will burn them in the long run. It's classic short sightedness or disinterest to how technology and the industry is evolving.
For ages people have been complaining about overly expensive proprietary storage solutions, and finally Nintendo is opening up for whatever external drive you want, and people still complain? There will be some internal memory (probably 8-16GB) and you have the option to expand with SDXC or USB HDD.
My guess is Nintendo is going to make this super easy to understand through the system interface. A menu window will pop up when you log in to the eShop explaining how a SD card or external USB harddrive is recommended if you want to download demos, games or movies from the service. The internal memory will however be enough for patches, apps and VC games.
It's a given that Nintendo will make a Nintendo branded HDD, and you can bet that it will available in a bundle with some major 3rd/1st party game.
Speaking for myself as an average consumer, I think the average consumer would be more comfortable buying a ready-to-go specially purposed HDD ala Apple, no matter how comprehensively Nintendo would try to explain a third-party solution.
Again, speaking on behalf of the "dumb" consumer here (me).
You still touting the whole "30GB in size", even when a few pages ago it was mentioned that many of this games are not 30GB in size, and the ones that are are either because of multi-audio or hi-res movies. Heck, name me 50 or 100 games that are currently 30GB on the PS3 or Xbox 360; heck name 50 that are 20GB.The thing is we all know that the 360 without a hard drive is next to worthless. But at least with the 360 there's the alternate sku with the big hard drive and a first party one you can buy to supplement your system if you bought the version without.
PS3 basically same thing.
iPads aren't made to play games that will be over 30 gigs in size.
The WiiU, if it wants these top end games and their DLC, is going to need storage space. Lots of it. Especially as this gen kicks off the digital distribution train. From the rumors popping up about 720 and PS4 being all about digital sales storage is looking pretty mandatory. Plus, blah blah used games are killing the industry blah blah from the devs. And of course consumers now saying things like they won't pay more than $400 for WiiU, which IMO is a reasonable stance for those consumers and a likely price point for WiiU. But you're basically going to need a $100 hard drive on top of that. Let that start spreading like how the Vita memory card issue did.
And that's all just on the business side. Then there's the technical stuff like TEH was talking about with WiiU most likely including a small amount of flash memory, how that's going to interact with games, loading times, disc switching, etc. When developers start taking advantage of the next gen hardware the size of games is going to balloon and if Ninty is using 25 gig discs there's definitely going to be disc switching.
All that is still secondary to the business aspect though. If devs require space and the WiiU doesn't have it or offer the opportunity for full game downloads that 720 and PS4 probably will... bad things. Bad things.
The system (apparently) will have some sort of internal memory, so no need to convince "parents" to buy anything..immediately.Now you'll have 5 year olds asking their parents for a WiiU. Parent goes to GameStop WalMart and buys it. Finds out that now they need a 3rd party HDD. I don't even think they sell those in GameStop and Walmart. So they have to go on NewEgg?
I don't think it will matter as long as anyone can use any USB HDD. It didn't hurt the 360 with one SKU not having a HDD at all. It's one of those things where it's safe to assume that those who really want the extra content will have a USB drive connected. I know I've got a 1TB drive already reserved for my system.
ahh nvm
What if my space is helping nintendo out with social networking functions on the WiiU, but not necessarily linking to myspace profiles like most people are assuming.
Im thinking help with developing online profiles (ie gamertags) that track playtimes, 'achievements', games played, etc. and how these interface with the games themselves and the overall online infrastructure.
No a facebook or myspace app for the WiiU, but integration of social networking into the console itself.
Nintendo would go for Facebook, for sure.
ahh nvm,
I just don't want to have to have my ps3, wiiU, and an external drive all needed. One because the console can't play blurays and 2 because I'll need more memory. Just seems like a bit much.
The more and more I think about the Wii-U in terms of the things we're most likely getting, I begin to absolutely expect a VERY aggressively priced console. If we get what we've been speculating as the "minimum" we are likely to get and it's not aggressively priced, that will just look awful to me.
Reggie said:The market is going to continue to differentiate based on the types of experiences that consumers want. As an example, if Im the head of a household of a family of four, and my disposable income is $50,000 to $60,000, Im going to continue to look at the Wii because of the software, and its a great entertainment device. For consumers who want to have the latest gadgets and have a higher disposable income, thats for the Wii U.
1) reggie doesn't know shit, he is probably kept in the dark for a lot of thingsMy mind still wonders because of what Reggie said about pricing..
http://allthingsd.com/20111222/ninte...inks-of-zynga/
But then again, it could be just Reggie spouting bullshit. The income named seems a bit silly. Who knows?
Speaking for myself as an average consumer, I think the average consumer would be more comfortable buying a ready-to-go specially purposed HDD ala Apple, no matter how comprehensively Nintendo would try to explain a third-party solution. I don't think more advanced users have any qualms.
Again, speaking on behalf of the "dumb" consumer here (me).
It's not just you though.
How about all these soccer moms that bought a Wii, or anyone who bought a 360 addon HDD?
Now you'll have 5 year olds asking their parents for a WiiU. Parent goes to GameStop WalMart and buys it. Finds out that now they need a 3rd party HDD. I don't even think they sell those in GameStop and Walmart. So they have to go on NewEgg?
I can only picture my own moms face if she ever had to shop for a hard drive on NewEgg. Slackjawed and drooling staring at the screen with no idea of what she's looking at.
I would argue that there are indeed average consumers who would be interested and need the HDD option, but my view of "average" is not necessarily "casual." I correlate it more with dudebro, enthusiast etc etc.
Yep..But if they are interested in that option, then they will either already know where to get one or make the effort to learn where to get one. I'm not defending Nintendo's decision, but it's also not something that's complicated.
But if they are interested in that option, then they will either already know where to get one or make the effort to learn where to get one. I'm not defending Nintendo's decision, but it's also not something that's complicated.
I got you.
I'm not sure where these arguments are going, several seem to be overlapping and it's all quite confusing. Can we all agree that it's unfortunate but also not a big deal?
I got you.
I'm not sure where these arguments are going, several seem to be overlapping and it's all quite confusing. Can we all agree that it's unfortunate but also not a big deal?
Yep..
Plus, it's going to be USB devices. Is not like parents will also need to know about SATA devices, screwdrivers, and RPM.
If they "need" an HDD, they'll go to any store, buy any from 8GB to 1TB (as long as there are no caps on the Wii U per se). Go back to their home plug it in and that's it. If some formatting is required, the system might probably tell you so the moment you plug it in.
I got you.
I'm not sure where these arguments are going, several seem to be overlapping and it's all quite confusing. Can we all agree that it's unfortunate but also not a big deal?
You understand the situation too well to fall under that classification. The true average consumer is most likely going to use SD cards to extend storage.
You're making it way more complicated than it will be. As I mentioned that mom will most like be purchasing SD cards. The HDD issue is more for us who do understand what's going on. Also Wal-Mart, Target, and Best Buy sell them so if a person just has to have one then and there they could go to one of them and buy one.