Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto

SmokyDave said:
Oh snap. That's harsh.

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. Better hope this one is a troll.
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CVG is Future Publishing UK, I'd say odds are high that comment is from a UK developer. Nintendo doesn't have all that many UK friends these days compared with Sony, so a troll is not out of the question. Its worrying, but we know that the V5 dev kits were a bump up from V4, and its possible they're not on those yet...

With comments like Randy Pitchfords "it's a nice bridge to the next generation" - I don't see how or why he would say that if he thought it did some things worse.
 
SmokyDave said:
Oh snap. That's harsh.



Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. Better hope this one is a troll.
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Better hope? Don't you think its strange that these new quotes completely contradict the last ones? The last anonymous bullshit was "the graphics aren't as powerful" and "it has less shaders for graphics" now its "the graphics will be just as good but the CPU is less powerful". Yet according to CVG this rumour backs up the other one.

Strangely enough these rumours are more believable than the other nonesense from GI.biz. Because I wouldn't be surprised if the WiiU CPU is clocked lower than Xenon. If they're directly porting a engine over and not taking advantage of the more efficient nature of the CPU or the sound chip (which neither 360 or PS3) then its possible they could see CPU problems.
 
-Pyromaniac- said:
sounds more concrete than anything we have heard yet...which is disappointing.
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Am I missing something? How does that sound more concrete? Its another anonymous source from a website who's staff are so mind numbingly stupid they think two contradictory stories back each other up.
 
GameE said:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/342718/wii-u-games-look-just-as-good-as-ps3-but-its-still-not-as-capable/

I cant take much more of this >_>
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Nintendo's relationship with 3rd parties to continue to be terrible confirmed?

Seriously, though--what is interesting to me is that I think we'll see a major rift between 3rd-party publishers themselves. There will be 3rd parties that seem adamant that all their games need to be top-of-the-line graphically while others seem content sticking with what we've got.

This industry is headed for a major change in the near future--I just don't know in which direction.
 
radioheadrule83 said:
CVG is Future Publishing UK, I'd say odds are high that comment is from a UK developer. Nintendo doesn't have all that many UK friends these days compared with Sony, so a troll is not out of the question. Its worrying, but we know that the V5 dev kits were a bump up from V4, and its possible they're not on those yet...

With comments like Randy Pitchfords "it's a nice bridge to the next generation" - I don't see how or why he would say that if he thought it did some things worse.
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Ahahahaha maan you guys are serious with this conspiracy thing !?
 
So far we have a few people saying it's better than this gen in all ways, and now we have a bunch of people saying it's not better in all ways. It's worse in one, equal in another, and better in the other (RAM).

I wonder who is most right, and why exactly there are such large differences. Like I said, I don't care if this thing is priced very aggressively ($249) but if it's not then...umm...yeahh. Would be disappointing.
 
KageMaru said:
Saying that Zelda would be a text adventure if Nintendo didn't care about graphics is quite the exaggeration. They do the best with what they got, of course they want their games to look as good as they can, any developer works for the same thing. That doesn't mean that they care about graphics though because frankly, they are going to seem pretty dated rather soon.

Also how graphically impressive those tech demos are is subjective as it's been discussed many times before. They looked nice, but I wouldn't really call them impressive for a "next gen" platform. Go ahead and call me a troll, but all I'm doing is trying to put things into perspective.
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This is a contradiction. Super Mario Galaxy 1/2, for example, are highly impressive. These games are alot closer to an xbox 360 game graphically than anyone thought the wii could do. Nintendo outdone themself on this one. Yes, it dosent look as good as an xbopx 360 game but its very impressive.

Or a more radical example:

if my digital watch could run games with N64 graphics, wouldn that be impressive?

Issues surrounding the industry have more to do than just the tech race. If you think Nintendo now entering the HD-era is doing anything to help these issues then you're sadly mistaken.
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Not directly a response to that sentence, but one thing while Nintendo CAN'T allow themselves to not making money for a generation is because of the investors.

Nintendo only has a Handheld and a stationary gaming console. When the dont make money, the investors wont get money. And you dont want to make your investors mad.

Microsoft and Sony have ALOT of other stuff besides consoles. When they make losses in the gaming department, but can compensate it with the earnings from a department that did well, ther investors will be pleased anyhow. This gives Sony and Microsoft a much bigger opportunity to go "balls to the walls" on the hardware side
 
Oddduck said:
Oh shit this is brutal.

AI and physics will suffer?
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disgusted-mother-of-god.png




Come on guys and gals, you know what this is.
These are pre-emptive strikes by either Sony, MS or both.

They dont plan to show off their new consoles this E3 and
dont want the WiiU to get a major Wii-like head start.
Because if the WiiU takes off, its over for the both of them, really.

They both fear the WiiU being the next PS2 after Wii's PS1 performance.
This generation coming up will make or break them.
 
DynamicG said:
When you say "you guys" who exactly are you talking about? I mean I see a quote, but I can't remember everyone in the thread supporting or liking it.
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There has already been a couple posts related to "3rd party hating Nintendo", "Nintendo has no 3rd party friends", "Those may be PS3 developers trolling" etc. Its been pretty crazy...
 
DarkChild said:
Ahahahaha maan you guys are serious with this conspiracy thing !?
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UH HURR HURRRR

Sony, EA and others have paid shills and viral marketers to post on forums like this one -- we know that, that is a FACT. It was a throwaway comment about Nintendo not having many friends here anymore, I'm not saying there is a conspiracy.

I think its more likely that they're running their game on middleware not optimised for OOE (as wsippel suggested in the other thread) or that they are on V4 or earlier dev kits.

What some developers are saying anonymously does not match up with what Gearbox and others are saying. If the lates kits have problems executing what developers want to achieve with physics and AI, then I would be very worried like anybody else...
 
I will say the latest article offers some more blatant troll bait with the comment about Mario not needing physics. What developer in their right mind would give such a quote to a website?
 
DarkChild said:
There has already been a couple posts related to "3rd party hating Nintendo", "Nintendo has no 3rd party friends", "Those may be PS3 developers trolling" etc. Its been pretty crazy...
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That's a serious herp derp moment on your part if you thought my post had anything to do with any conspiracy theory.

Nintendo clearly does not have a great relationship with certain 3rd parties because of their reluctance to go full-bore on graphical capability.

All I did was state the obvious--that if the reports are true they'd continue to have strained relationships with certain 3rd parties.
 
Wat, another article ? Another thread ? Another 3 days of talks about it ? :D
And there's still 2 months to go until E3 lol
 
-Pyromaniac- said:
sounds more concrete than anything we have heard yet...which is disappointing. So it seems like GPU and RAM are ok, but processing power is quite low.
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I don't believe. Remember, wsippel's posts about optimization and how after a certain CPU-bound engine was tweaked, it experienced a 400% performance increase. Perhaps these guys haven't been working with the latest tools or aren't coding very close to the metal. Perhaps they aren't utilizing the audio DSP. I mean, perhaps it doesn't do as many FLOPS as Cell and merely matches it in L2 cache, but it should handily beat Xenon.

So much back and forth. We need a legit specs leak! Come on, GAF detectives! I believe in you!
 
Interesting that all these articles come out at once. Sounds less like a conspiracy and more like sites getting second (third?) hand comments and then deciding another sites rumors back up their own. It happens quite a bit in this industry.
 
-Pyromaniac- said:
So far we have a few people saying it's better than this gen in all ways, and now we have a bunch of people saying it's not better in all ways. It's worse in one, equal in another, and better in the other (RAM).

I wonder who is most right, and why exactly there are such large differences. Like I said, I don't care if this thing is priced very aggressively ($249) but if it's not then...umm...yeahh. Would be disappointing.
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The current rumour is quite explainable if true. WiiU is using a more efficient version of the CPU in XBox 360, but its raw power may be less if its clocked lower. WiiU has an ARM CPU to assist with I/O and a sound chip for audio. 360 does all of its I/O and audio for games on the main CPU which can take up as much as 50% of the processor. If a developer ports an engine directly and just puts the entire load (including audio and I/O for the game) on WiiU's main CPU they will only get at best equal results to 360 and possibly worse results without optimisation.
 
DarkChild said:
There has already been a couple posts related to "3rd party hating Nintendo", "Nintendo has no 3rd party friends", "Those may be PS3 developers trolling" etc. Its been pretty crazy...
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Right. So those who want a rational discussion ignore those posts and make substantive posts about thing we actually know about, rather than throw spitballs and pick fights. There are lots of responses you could have made that would have poked holes in this theory without being a toolbox.

You could have just flat out asked the poster "How is Sony doing this?" or maybe even inquired about 3rd party relationships with Nintendo. It is possible to bust up ridiculous theories without becoming a caricature the person you are attempting to mock.

It's fairly safe and empirically sound to say that 3rd parties have not had the best relationship with Nintendo and a discussion can be had from there, but you aren't doing that. You are here to deride and fling poo at other posters.
 
Smiles and Cries said:
at this point you'd have to think there has to be some truth in there somewhere, I mean why would someone come out and lie about the WiiU's power?

what the hell is it lacking that PS3/360 have an HDD?
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wsippel's recent comments about middleware explain those comments perfectly
 
Fourth Storm said:
I don't believe. Remember, wsippel's posts about optimization and how after after a certain CPU-reliant engine was tweaked, it experienced a 400% performance increase. Perhaps these guys haven't been working with the latest tools or aren't coding very close to the metal. Perhaps they aren't utilizing the audio DSP. I mean, perhaps it doesn't do as many FLOPS as Cell and merely matches it in L2 cache, but it should handily beat Xenos.

So much back and forth. We need a legit specs leak! Come on, GAF detectives! I believe in you!
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well you didn't quote the sentence I wrote right after it where I said "I wonder who is right". It is a little interesting. Has there ever been such a range in opinion on something that should be quite concrete for developers to understand or something? To some devs have better dev kits with differences that big? There's just so many factors that I wonder what exactly is causing the discrepancy in all these opinions. Personally I won't believe shit until post-e3 when companies are hopefully allowed to talk, and Nintendo shows off their stuff, but it's pretty weird as of now.

I just want exact reasoning that's all. Lherre? BG? IdeaMan? Anyone who claims to know things?
 
Plinko said:
That's a serious herp derp moment on your part if you thought my post had anything to do with any conspiracy theory.

Nintendo clearly does not have a great relationship with certain 3rd parties because of their reluctance to go full-bore on graphical capability.

All I did was state the obvious--that if the reports are true they'd continue to have strained relationships with certain 3rd parties.
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I wasn't responding to you, I just say that alot of people say those things, it sounds pretty crazy if you think about it.
 
AceBandage said:
Interesting that all these articles come out at once. Sounds less like a conspiracy and more like sites getting second (third?) hand comments and then deciding another sites rumors back up their own. It happens quite a bit in this industry.
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It happens in all forms of media, especially those as incestuous as the gaming media. How many GAF-> Internet -> GAF moments have we seen in the past?
 
Developers: "I'm super cereal, Wii U sucks and is less powerful than PS360"
GAF: "Well, they are a developer so they must know what they are talking about even though evidence shows that it isn't. They did say they are super cereal, so they must be super cereal.
 
Who should I believe, anonymous developers who probably received the dev kits a while ago, or those whose games are in development for at least a year, but they're obviously moneyhatted?
 
From the GI thread:

DarkChild said:
Hoo-doo said:
Nintendo responds:

http://news.yahoo.com/developers-claim-wii-u-weaker-ps3-360-nintendo-210201325.html
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I think this deserves its own 50+ page thread :P
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From this thread, moments later:

DarkChild said:
I'll just leave this here...

http://news.yahoo.com/developers-claim-wii-u-weaker-ps3-360-nintendo-210201325.html
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When you're only looking to get a reaction, that's undeniably trolling. Do yourself a favour and find something else to do with your time, before you get yourself banned.
 
I wonder where Arkam is these days.
He made the exact same comments as the CVG and GI.biz articles in this very thread, even had a mod verify him as being "in the industry", and he still got trolled out of the thread for the mere mention of the WiiU not being a technological powerhouse.
 
Hoo-doo said:
I wonder where Arkam is these days.
He made the exact same comments as the CVG and GI.biz articles in this very thread, even had a mod verify him as being "in the industry", and he still got trolled out of the thread for the mere mention of the WiiU not being a technological powerhouse.
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Maybe Arkam is the source :p
 
Hoo-doo said:
I wonder where Arkam is these days.
He made the exact same comments as the CVG and GI.biz articles in this very thread, even had a mod verify him as being "in the industry", and he still got trolled out of the thread for the mere mention of the WiiU not being a technological powerhouse.
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His reception was because he came in alwith an obvious axe to grind added to the fact that he admitted to not even working on the system.
 
guek said:
wsippel's recent comments about middleware explain those comments perfectly
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so wsippel is able to understand where the weakness is from while this dev points the issue as a WiiU problem.

if it was as simple as middleware compatibility would this guy go out of his ways to say I guess you don't need this kind of power for mario games?

do devs just really hate Nintendo?
 
AceBandage said:
His reception was because he came in alwith an obvious axe to grind added to the fact that he admitted to not even working on the system.
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But picking up a general dissatisfaction with the console in and around his workplace isn't at all out of the question. Even if he himself had no actual hands-on time with the thing, his colleagues had.
 
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