IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Are we getting anywhere with any of this?
WiiU "Latte" GPU Die Photo - GPU Feature Set And Power Analysis
- Thread starter Thraktor
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A healthy discussion while sharing knowledge and ideas? YEP. The more we talk about this the faster the CPU of the Wii U will get? YOU BETCHA
We already solved it within 5 minutes of the post. It's bullshit.
Starfish Hero
Member
Thunder Monkey
Banned
If only it was only bullshit.
Completely daft, theoretically impossible, and based on having no understanding of thermodynamics.
You have logic here for sure, but did you ever feel the back of the fan on the U BEFORE the update? that thing was like a freaking air conditioner, I really don't think they needed to add more cooling unless they were preparing for better clockspeeds to SOME extent (not the extent of 3.24 GHz though)
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
From what I see, no one in this thread believes the clock was bumped this high. Some people believe the clock could be bumped slightly in the future, and are discussing that possibility, while others believe the original rumor was a typo and there has already been a small clock bump and are checking infamously poorly running games for improvement. The other people in this thread are making fun of everyone for believing the rumor.
There's an Arthur Gies joke in there somewhere.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I wish there was a new good looking game shown on WiiU so I can actually watch you guys discuss something real. I like that talk not all this guessy stuff. :/
baggagelizard
Banned
for your viewing pleasure, some "comments" from HamSandMan77, the user who wrote this in the first place:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.WiiU
"Seeing that people are having mixed views on said clock speeds (even for me when I first seen said clock speeds), I'm placing them as rumors. "
"Homedrewers have said that that is what the CPU & GPU's clock crystal is clocked at and that with said update it up clocked to that spead, also, the Wii U uses a Power6 base chip & the updated speads are placed back into rumor mode. "
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.WiiU
"Seeing that people are having mixed views on said clock speeds (even for me when I first seen said clock speeds), I'm placing them as rumors. "
"Homedrewers have said that that is what the CPU & GPU's clock crystal is clocked at and that with said update it up clocked to that spead, also, the Wii U uses a Power6 base chip & the updated speads are placed back into rumor mode. "
GDDR5
The fact that in Wii mode it just downclocks one of the cores to the Wii's clock speed, runs the code natively and disables the other cores does mean that it is the same as broadway.
The higher clock just comes from the newer process node.
Lol, it is not Power6!
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Captainsweatpants
Member
Now I finally got to play NBA 2k13 (Demo). I don't know how it performed before the update, but it's smooth as hell. No frame rate dips whatsoever. Seems like Nintendo really improved the performance. Might be software related though.
Saint Gregory
Member
OK, I just played through what is by far the worst area of slowdown in NG3:RE (the end of day 2) and there's definitely improvement. It's not what I would describe as even slightly good performance but the opening area of the unfinished skyscraper was so bad before that even the music slowed down and that's not happening anymore.
I would bet that this is just a benefit of the OS patch and not any kind of boost from overclocking though.
I would bet that this is just a benefit of the OS patch and not any kind of boost from overclocking though.
frankie_baby
Member
broadway downclocked itself to gamecube clock speed but it did have some other improvements over gecko
Starfish Hero
Member
If he really "seen said clock speeds", how come he doesn't just put up proof?
frankie_baby
Member
exactly, who are these homedrewers he talks about
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Wait wait wait wait, clock crystal? Is that a thing? Like, in a watch?
Wishmaster92
Member
Indeed
Homebrewers have said that that is what the CPU & GPU's clock crystal is clocked at (3.24) and that with said update it up clocked to that speed (3.24).
I wonder who are the homebrewers he mentions and where is the proof..
Changing the clockspeed like that is not plausible, and assumes gross incompetence on Nintendo's part.
1) Underclocking scenario: Nintendo tested every WiiU at the factory running safely at over 3Ghz. They then proceed to gimp the launch lineup by underclocking it down to 1.24Ghz. Devs are kept in the dark. If the system is certified to run at 3Ghz, why release it at any lower?
2) Overclocking scenario: Nintendo did not test every WiiU, and rolls out a live update to millions of consumers. Fireballs be damned.
1) Underclocking scenario: Nintendo tested every WiiU at the factory running safely at over 3Ghz. They then proceed to gimp the launch lineup by underclocking it down to 1.24Ghz. Devs are kept in the dark. If the system is certified to run at 3Ghz, why release it at any lower?
2) Overclocking scenario: Nintendo did not test every WiiU, and rolls out a live update to millions of consumers. Fireballs be damned.
phosphor112
Banned
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
I meant with the GPU and CPU info.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
So the CPU is a 1.24GHz tri-core?
Isn't that even weaker than the 360's three cores?
How's the GPU?
Isn't that even weaker than the 360's three cores?
How's the GPU?
tkscz
Member
Please read the thread to know more about the GPU and read through the CPU thread to know more about it. There is more to it than just numbers.
JordanN
Banned
CPU is based on PowerPC 7xx which is an old design (same as Gamecube/Wii). Iwata admits the console can't run everything perfectly and some developers complained about it. One developer has said they're ok with it.
GPU is better than PS3/360 but probably not by much. There's still some secrecy to the chip but don't expect dramatic improvements over what the Xbox 360 can do (compared to PS4/720).
This is the reason why companies don't like to share specs of custom silicon. Look at the Apple A5 (even better A5X) chip and then compare it to the Tegra 3. The Tegra 3 has 3 or so more times "cores" and faster clockspeeds all around. On paper the Tegra 3 is a beast. But then the "weaker" custom Apple chips beat it out on most categories. I feel that the Wii U can have the same potential being an MCM die and all. Once people figure out the architecture and the GPGPU I feel like it will hold its own just fine.
JordanN
Banned
Their loss. If interpretation is such a problem they can give a disclaimer about how each specs are suppose to be read.
Compared to the PS3/360? Sure, but that's not saying much (2012 vs 2005 tech).
No, the A5 is duel core, Tegra 3 is quad core.
They use the same CPU cores! Just that Tegra 3 has 2x the number and higher clock speed.
Tegra 3 is faster CPU wise no matter what.
I am reading the IBM docs for both Gekko and Broadway and so far they both look the same.
Tegra 3: 4-core CPU 1.6 GHz, 12-Core GPU = 16 total cores
A5: Dual core CPU 1 GHz, Dual core GPU= 4 total cores
FOUR TIMES as many cores.
I'll give you credit that the CPU is a BIT faster, not by much at all (according to anandtech) and the A5 DESTROYS the Tegra with 6 times the GPU cores. The A5 chip is INCREDIBLY efficient with better designed silicon with "less-powerful" specs. @JordanN
THIS is why specs don't matter, real-world performance is really what matters.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
There would have been some rumblings from those here in the know, that echoed some changes. What would a 250Mhz increase mean for the GPU?
Brad Grenz
Member
That your WiiU will overheat and turn off after about 20 seconds.
hgarrett54
Banned
So what's stopping a Wii U dev from actually giving some info on the GPU/CPU's capabilities?
You can not just shove CPU cores and GPUs in the same boat!
The CPU cores in Tegra 3 are the same cores from ARM! It just has more and at a higher clock speed!
The GPU specs on the other hand, A5 are better than the Tegra3 and the "core"s are not comparable, one has Unified Shader Pipelines, the other does not!
OG_Original Gamer
Member
So your saying that the console form factor is designed around a 550Mhz GPU? This would suggest that the chip is at limit, core is at its safe spot.
Actually I looking for performance benefits.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
NDA,s and its probably funnier to watch forumers go off on batshit crazy, possibly drug induced tangents and wishlists of the hardware having some kind of special sauce.
I mean i've had nba 2k13 since i got the console back in december.. i don't remember it having any performance issues...i'll have to try it post-update but the game was already really smooth performance wise
Brad Grenz
Member
That's easy, there are no performance benefits from something that isn't happening.
Ok... not sure how that makes sense, because even if we are just talking about CPU cores the Tegra is still a "newer" quad-core at 1.6 GHz and the A5 a dual core at 1 GHz. The Tegra is Barely better at most benchmarks. The point I'm trying to prove is that you don't have to look at the core specs to "determine" real world performance. I'm just giving an example to show that maybe, MAYBE the Wii U is not as bad off as we think and that it really might be really efficient at what it does because of its custom silicon. Yeah devs will have to figure out how to be better with the chipset but I just don't think people should rule it out as being so "weak" yet.
Starfish Hero
Member
Don't know why he's debating you so adamantly: I'm pretty sure what you just said here has been consensus for, like, 3000 posts.
The CPU benchmarks in that article that compare the 2 are browser based and thus are stupid to use to compare CPU performance.
They are heavily reliant on how fast the browser is and they do not benchmark multi core performance.
GPU benchmarks have just about nothing to do with the CPU!
Because he is damn wrong about Tegra 3's CPU and is comparing GPUs based only on "cores"!
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Honestly, anyone trying to say it's outright weaker than the PS3/360 isn't worth listening to. It would not be running ports at anything close to parity if a single part of the system was that huge of an issue. CPU that has limited in comparison SIMD functionality, but with co-processors to offload specific tasks to freeing a modicum of system resources. This is a change, well overall the entire system is. Literally taking a 4 stage pipeline CPU from a decade ago... no three of them! Slapping them together with refinements, and using the smaller die size to gain speed.
It's so weird. I mean just on the minus parts I've covered you can see why some PS3/360 code won't work well on it. I mean those CPU's when used effectively (effectively being the keyword) are crunching numbers that aren't even within the realm of theory on Espresso. Meanwhile it has a newer GPU, an interesting memory architecture to say the least, and co-processors to offload on.
The entire thing screams "How can we make our development changes as painless as possible?"
By changing very little in your development pipeline.
It's so weird. I mean just on the minus parts I've covered you can see why some PS3/360 code won't work well on it. I mean those CPU's when used effectively (effectively being the keyword) are crunching numbers that aren't even within the realm of theory on Espresso. Meanwhile it has a newer GPU, an interesting memory architecture to say the least, and co-processors to offload on.
The entire thing screams "How can we make our development changes as painless as possible?"
By changing very little in your development pipeline.
Pjsprojects
Member
Xenon and cell (360 & PS3)beat both ps4 and durangos cpu's in cpu simd as well.
Xbox 360 level power with a little extra oomph for only 45 watts max. If you don't want to worry about your electric bill going up due to your gaming habits, the Wii U is for you.
1.843TFLOPs x 10 = 18.43TFLOPs
4 HD7970s clocked at 1.2GHz = 19.661 TFLOPs so it isn't as impossible as you are making it out to be. But the reality is that CF doesn't hold 100% efficiency however, it is possible to be a generation ahead with a PC set up, in a similar manner to PS4 being a generation ahead of Wii U, which is his point.
hgarrett54
Banned
Oh my god, I almost posted a comment saying there's no fucking way his PC was 10x current gen unless he had like 4x 7970s.
Didn't know how close I was o.o
Hah, yeah also to be as far ahead of the PS4 as it is from 360, it would only need 7.6x the flops (this is all BS anyways) that is only 3 7970s clocked just below 1.2GHz.
Wii U's performance issues come from a lack of software, otherwise you could look at it as the average entry level gaming laptop that is already going to play stuff like BF4 (obviously not on high)
Where did Iwata say that and why have some developers(the ones who actually made good games for it) say the exact opposite?
How did you conclude this?
He obviously knows something we don't.
What coprocesssors? Audo DSP is official, but what else?
A fucking GBA is good for mixing 16 channels of CD-frequency audio. What's a dedicated sound DSP going to save you in this day and age, 2% CPU load? There's been a 121.something MHz figure floating around for it. How fast do you think such a DSP can be, in terms of ops/second or any other metric?
Point being, it's a drop in the barrel for the relative performance standings. If you argue for task offloading, both PS3 and Xbox 360 have room to spare for offloading whatever CPUish tasks, especially the PS3, and you're still writing code for the main processor. And that's definitely easier and more fruitful than supporting a custom DSP architecture for every little class of subtasks. I'd wager a single SPE outperforms the entire Wii U minus GPU in stream processing, DSPs or not.
PS: What's interesting about the memory architecture?
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