-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Will there ever be another RPG like Skies of Arcadia?
- Thread starter MrAngryFace
- Start date
Doom_Bringer
Banned
Mejilan said:
FOOL
The game is good even though I don't really understand what the villains are really after. I finished it for the DC way back when but I cannot for the life of me remember why the bad guys were bad. At least the characters were funny and finding the discoveries was fun....when I wasn't fighting anyway.
ManDudeChild
Member
Vargas said:
^^^
See that guy, he came from the Silver Moon, he wanted to destroy the world.
the game basically ignores the storytelling concepts fostered by FF7. it hearkens back to a more classic form of narrative and design, but updates to the standards of the DC at the time. this is one of the facets that makes the game interesting and compelling... its un-square-ness, offering a compelling alternative to the storytelling, pacing, conventions and such launched by FF7 and its conceptual descendents.AniHawk said:
Neutron Night
Banned
SoA2 better be pretty damned different from the first one if Sega wants me to take notice.
Considering you don't know anything about what makes an RPG good, why should anyone care whether you take notice?
Note to Sega: Ignore this guy.
I sort of agree with this. Sort of...
SolidSnakex
Member
Tellaerin said:
It's Game Arts formula, since the story structure of SoA is very similar to their style of RPG's (light hearted upbeat adventures that stars kids and teens).
ferricide said:
PSU has been confirmed for an online RPG? When was this...? I remember the trailer I saw on Gamespot, there was something at the end, "online? offline?" and was trying to make people question the real origin of this game. I'll agree with you that Kodama is the only reason I care about Sega after the DC bit it...
jett said:A decent battle system is what makes an RPG "good". Guess what SoA's missing?
When it comes to the quality of an RPG, it's always varied what the most important element of the game is...
For a while it was "story", then all everyone cared for is "character development", then some people actually were smart enough and concentrated on the balance/gameplay/dungeon design/battle system (reason why I prefer 3j and 5 to every other FF), now it's "open ended gameplay" and "make moral decisions that change the course of the game"
SolidSnakex
Member
Tabris said:
That's the great Alfonso that's suppose to be gay...But he isn't.
Best and most underused character in the game imo.SolidSnakex said:That's the great Alfonso that's suppose to be gay...But he isn't.
No, I mean actually gay, and not stereotypically gay.
His drive was his love for that other guy, I forgot his name. The main bad guy until he dies and Ramirez goes all end bossy.
Prine said:
That's called background music
They weren't actually singing Eyes on Me That was actually an amazing scene. If you're going to complain about the story, do it right: "Oh, we were all actually from the same orphanage, but we all forgot due to junctioning". That was the weakest point of the story, so I tend to just ignore it.
The junction system is piss easy to understand, unless, like most people who have played and hated this game, you're confusing it for drawing, which is once you get Card Mod or Refine abilities.
And your summary of the space scene is kind of telling me that you basically sleptwalked through the plot, and besides, Skies has tons of instances of "oh shit, something bad just happened, but it's cool because we're SKY PIRATES!" in its own story, so how can you knock VIII for that?
And your summary of the space scene is kind of telling me that you basically sleptwalked through the plot, and besides, Skies has tons of instances of "oh shit, something bad just happened, but it's cool because we're SKY PIRATES!" in its own story, so how can you knock VIII for that?
SolidSnakex
Member
Tabris said:
Never heard of that before, although I looked it up and it seems that was the general opinion on their relationship. He could've just saw him as a father figure though.
ferricide said:
You speak only of one aspect of the game - storytelling.
I firmly believe that if you play RPGs for the story, you're far better off reading a book. RPG plots are rarely more than a sequence of trigger events to extend a basic story of I must defeat bad guy who is trying to destroy the world or prince must save princess from evil clutches. Sure the cinematics and dialog has improved much since the days of old, but it's still a far cry from most literary works.
So being that RPGs are games, I see Arcadia from that viewpoint. A good story can definitely enhance your RPG experience greatly. But if it's the only thing holding the game together, then it's a lousy game.
What I meant by my FF7 remark is that if you were raised in an environment where you want "experience gaming", then you would enjoy Arcadia for all its gameplay faults. The story, the setting, the characters, etc would be enough for you to love the game and ignore all its glaring gameplay problems... just like FF7. If you value gameplay first and foremost... and gamers do from other genres, you can see the evolution of the RPG genre from its conception to now. No longer are they relegated to bare bone plots with bare bones game. The stories and storytelling methods have advanced. But more importantly, the games themselves can stand on their own two feet. Play Panzer Dragoon Saga or Megaman Battle Network and see how real-time action, timing and strategy elements blend together nicely. Play Grandia and Growlanser to see how SRPG positioning and timing make them a thinking-man's game. (Yes yes, Grandia is too easy.)
So for Overworks to put out an RPG that relies on experience over gameplay is a backwards step. A game can have both, and it'll be all the better for it. But to propagate the reliance on creating an experience is exactly why I stopped gaming. It sure does bring in more of an audience, but it's not why I started playing video games 20+ years ago.
LOL, damn Tabris. It's obvious you love the moody broody types, you don't need 5+ post telling us it in an SoA thread. Is it hard to understand that some people like more optimistic characters in their games like in Grandia, Lunar or Suikoden?Tabris said:
As for flat, it's more simple character growth. Vyse went from a clutz to a leader. Fina went from shy and unsure to confident. The simple theme to the story matches this. I like SoA because it succeeds at what it tries to do. It didn't try to be deep to come up short. What you're doing is no different then going into a comedy, expecting a drama and saying it sucks. In other words, there's no point in taking your critiques seriously.
You can have optimistic characters that have more than one dimension, which Skies sorely needed. I never saw Vyse change much in the game at all; he never really struck me as a "klutz" rather than as a generic Headstrong Teenager stereotype that has been culled from many an anime
i take your point, but are you really reading what i have to say? just because i was talking only about the narrative, i still think you can compellingly argue that FF7 didn't influence much of what was done with skies. sure, there were attacks with foofy animations, but arguing that we never would've gotten there without FF7 is specious at best.
i didn't say that it's the only RPG that didn't follow FF7's lead, but it certainly is a big important facet of its appeal to me, although i wouldn't've phrased it that way at the time.
i didn't say that it's the only RPG that didn't follow FF7's lead, but it certainly is a big important facet of its appeal to me, although i wouldn't've phrased it that way at the time.
outside of megaman battle network (well, i haven't played growlanser yet) i'd rather not. IMO grandia (well, i've mostly played 2) and PDS are incredibly boring games. i've always wanted to give PDS a second shot but i can never bring myself to do so whenever i think back to it. the only thing i liked about it was the battle system and that one town.Tsubaki said:
I also actually quite liked Tidus. He was optimistic, but he also had his own issues to deal with. So that throws out your brooding character theory. To be honest though, I definitely do prefer characters that brood more.
Either way, Vyse didn't deal with any issues. There was no substance to him. Definition of a 1 dimensional character
Either way, Vyse didn't deal with any issues. There was no substance to him. Definition of a 1 dimensional character
In the beginning, Vyse slept in, got smacked in the head and you could choose to say stupid things like, "Let's ram the Little Jack into the Red Gigas!" or "Do 10,000 Cutlass Furies on the whale?". Not the over-exaggerated klutz you'd see in anime but also not the sure decision-maker he was at the end.belgurdo said:
This is exactly why I tend to enjoy RPG's with simple stories compared to deep ones. For deep stories, you can pace yourself and re-read complex parts in a book. For simple stories, RPG's add a visual and control factor. Like if I don't want the story to end, I can keep on exploring and neglect the last battle.
Arcadia wasn't the soap opera many of those Square games are. RPGs present vast worlds through which the characters quest, so SOA's focus was quite sensibly on the journey. Games where characters are facing inner, personal conflict are better left to situational scenarios where it can be the focus of the story, and not to epic quests where the two focuses often break each other's pacing.
MrAngryFace
Banned
Slander!
I would take SoA characters over FF8's in a heartbeat. To even mention FF8 and good together...*shudder*
I think some of you are forgetting all the characters in SoA and only thinking of Vyse and his "good upbeat guy" attitude. Just because the main hero isn't a tragic pain in the ass doesn't mean there is not interesting characters around him. Galcian/Ramirez and Galcian/Bellezza have interesting relationships. Drachma's storyline is also deeper than it lets on to be at the start, while Aika is one of the best female characters in any RPG I've played.
I think some of you are forgetting all the characters in SoA and only thinking of Vyse and his "good upbeat guy" attitude. Just because the main hero isn't a tragic pain in the ass doesn't mean there is not interesting characters around him. Galcian/Ramirez and Galcian/Bellezza have interesting relationships. Drachma's storyline is also deeper than it lets on to be at the start, while Aika is one of the best female characters in any RPG I've played.
SolidSnakex
Member
Lazy8s said:
Just look at this thread, it's very obvious that a big part of SoA appeal is it's focus on story and characters. It's just as focused as those "soap opera" Square games, it's just doing it in a different style.
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen
Banned
The major problems with the PS1 FF games were (1) long load times (2) long battle animations (and also slow events, maps, system, etc.) (3) very weak battle balance. From what I've read SOA has all these problems, at least in the original Dreamcast version, so it's hard to see how it would satisfy people disappointed with the PS1 FF games.
etiolate said:
Oh yes, stereotypical 1 dimensional "I want to be all powerful" "mid-end boss" type, 1 dimensional ahab type (moby dick for the uninformed) and 1 dimensional "I have a secret crush on the hero" tom-boy type.
Yes, amazing characters there. </sarcasm>
While most of the FFVIII characters suffered the same fate. Squall didn't. Squall had all the layers that make a human being's psyche (well at least a good chunk in comparison). None of the Skies of Arcadia characters had this. Ramirez at least had another layer, instead of you know, just one.
Raise Havok
Banned
SoA is a fine game. But will there ever be another one like it? Yes, there have already been better ones. The game really reminded me of the 16-bit glory days of RPGs. The more lighthearted approach to saving the world if you will. Games that featured tons of exploration, and hours of battling, but with enough story to keep players hooked for the long haul.
That said, the more serious tone that a lot of recent RPGs are taking is just as good. My only problem with a lot of recent RPGs (FFX, Xenosaga, Suikoden III to name a few) is the utter lack of exploration. By that I mean, the towns have become smaller and with even more pointless NPC conversations, world maps have seemingly been done away with, and dungeons are becoming less and less complex.
What I'd really like is an RPG with a serious tone, that includes some of the better elements of games like SoA (exploration, epic adventure, FUN dungeons).
That said, the more serious tone that a lot of recent RPGs are taking is just as good. My only problem with a lot of recent RPGs (FFX, Xenosaga, Suikoden III to name a few) is the utter lack of exploration. By that I mean, the towns have become smaller and with even more pointless NPC conversations, world maps have seemingly been done away with, and dungeons are becoming less and less complex.
What I'd really like is an RPG with a serious tone, that includes some of the better elements of games like SoA (exploration, epic adventure, FUN dungeons).
The love was purely Platonic. If you recall, there was a brief, optional cinema scene in whcih Doc mentions his knowledge of Ramirez. Glacian tells Doc and Ramirez that the are like sons to him and Ramirez, who has had no real family, bonds to Glacian as if Glacian is his father.Tabris said: