BoboBrazil
Member
Can I use one of the isos floating around to update a surface pro 1 using windows rt 8.1?
Windows 10 Troubleshooting Thread
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Uno Venova
Banned
Why is the details pane only on the side now? And why can't you make it smaller than the default.
hockeypuck
Member
It appears that automatic driver updates do not give the user options to NOT install bloatware, because the default choice historically has been to install everything.
As someone who uses his PC as a lean & mean dedicated gaming machine, I have yet to read about any significant gaming performance upgrades by moving from Windows 7 with the current games on the market; the one exception being Battlefield. So having to manually uninstall bloatware (including bloatware with driver updates for peripherals- gaming mice, controllers, etc) means I'll be holding off until DX12 updates practically force me to.
Bingo.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah the 3rd party forced updates is a massive turn off, it seems like such a stupid decision. I get they want it on so computer illiterates stay up to date but at least give us the option to turn it off, it's not like those people will ever find the option to disable it anyway.
Again, read the user agreement to its entirety and watch yourself worry.
MultiCore
Member
Windows 10 is not compatible with RT.
AmethystEnd
Member
Echoing the people saying they're okay with forced automatic windows security patches and such, but FUCK automatic driver updates. Guess I'm not upgrading right at launch.
BoboBrazil
Member
Thanks. Are the softpedia links the best way to get the iso ahead of launch? I want to install on my desktop tonight and don't feel like waiting to the 29th or later.
-edit- hold up they force automatic driver updates? There is no way around this?
MultiCore
Member
Get the LTSB version of Enterprise if you want that level of control.
Which is hardly a.work around. For drivers, that shouldn't be happening at all, never mind ignoring a setting to stop it.
That said, the Nvidia drivers haven't tried to update themselves on me. I'm in pro though, so if it does happen, I'm clicking to defer the updates for 8 months and just click to install everything manually.
Wait this is news to me and a HUGE dealbreaker. Is there no way to turn it off?
Mistake
Member
So far there seems to be an option to turn driver updates off (which doesn't usually work) or try some scripts. I'm not upgrading until I hear something definitive.
daninthemix
Member
Literally the only thing I'm interested in is performance improvements from WDDM 2.0 and Direct X12. But this automatic updating thing has given me pause.
Aren't there services that can be disabled to prevent it? W7 uses several services that, if disabled, stop it from updating.
Aren't there services that can be disabled to prevent it? W7 uses several services that, if disabled, stop it from updating.
What's the source that it doesn't usually work? I've seen people mention changing it but haven't read anyone saying they had forced driver updates after disabling them.
Ouch, thanks.
I'm guessing most on GAF run Win 7 or Win 8 Pro, you're good:
The TL;DR of Windows 7/8 Pro to W10 Pro is:
Pro users will be able to control the flow of updates vs. Home users will simply be force fed updates.
I suppose the bigger unknown is what if 3rd party (graphics drivers for example) are tagged as being the "incorrect" version and get either: A) rolled back to a "windows approved" driver or B) replaced with a driver causing system stability. Either way, Pro users should be fine.
Link to quotes: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/07/windows-10-updates-to-be-automatic-and-mandatory-for-home-users/
The TL;DR of Windows 7/8 Pro to W10 Pro is:
Pro users will be able to control the flow of updates vs. Home users will simply be force fed updates.
I suppose the bigger unknown is what if 3rd party (graphics drivers for example) are tagged as being the "incorrect" version and get either: A) rolled back to a "windows approved" driver or B) replaced with a driver causing system stability. Either way, Pro users should be fine.
Link to quotes: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/07/windows-10-updates-to-be-automatic-and-mandatory-for-home-users/
What I'm hoping is happening is that Windows is recognising that the driver wasn't built for Windows 10 retail and grabbing the current driver. If that behaviour persists on future driver updates with the box checked, then it's pretty damn ridiculous.
I figure most are using Home actually. Whatever comes with the computer as it just works.
Luckily, if you buy a pro key and change the key (I've already seen them go for $20), it will just add pro.
I figure most are using Home actually. Whatever comes with the computer as it just works.
Luckily, if you buy a pro key and change the key (I've already seen them go for $20), it will just add pro.
This was my issue and why I was asking about it earlier. I've run Windows 7 64-bit home premium. It didn't have group policy functionality, for example, but was much cheaper. I didn't need the extra pro features to have a gaming and development home PC. I was hoping something similar would be available on the equivalent new version, rather than control actually being removed.
I'm not sure about the legality of buying pro keys but I guess some sites must be legitimate?
Let's be honest, what this is driving towards is the importance of "signed" drivers. I would imagine this is the gateway to GPU updates being available through the Windows Store instead of a direct download. This may be best for the 3rd parties as well as the consumer since the Windows Store would know your model type and make driver updates "easier". Who knows though, really.
This was my issue and why I was asking about it earlier. I've run Windows 7 64-bit home premium. It didn't have group policy functionality, for example, but was much cheaper. I didn't need the extra pro features to have a gaming and development home PC. I was hoping something similar would be available on the equivalent new version, rather than control actually being removed.
I'm not sure about the legality of buying pro keys but I guess some sites must be legitimate?
Paul T brought this up:
So in your case, Windows 7 Home Prem -> Windows 10 Home + $99 for Pro License ||| Upgrade W10 Home -> W10 Pro
Link: http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/how-upgrade-windows-10-home-windows-10-pro
Most of that could be resolved by actually only installing the drivers and not the bloatware though. I play the latest games, so I usually have the latest driver, but I'm not having it install 3D vision. It keeps buggering things up.
Or, stick to 7/8 until the driver thing is possibly worked out and save $99.
Blackage
Member
This is not something that's going to go away.
You can turn off the updates for specific drivers, and rolling back any driver stops it(or should) from upgrading until you specifically manually upgrade it again.
The point is that it seems to be ignoring these things right now.
That's another good option as well. It will be interesting to see how (if any) driver signing changes and if this is something MS changes due to labor pains from gamers.
Unrelated--- Who is running the OT for Windows 10?
Most people here I bet are running home premium. The mandatory video driver (3rd party) updates are insane. It should be enabled by default but with an option to disable. I'm sure an end user will come out with a registry edit or some script to kill this, but it's ridiculous we will even have to deal with that. I am not paying $99 to upgrade to pro just for the option to disable this.
My win10 auto updated my nvidia drivers today to a version not even listed on nvidias site (353.54). I found this out by coming back to the computer with my second monitor non-functioning and no access to nvidia control panel. Checking update history, sure enough it was pending a restart after installing the new video drivers. Already this situation is extremely unprofessional and confusing to a normal user. After restarting I'm getting strange random blue lines flickering in chrome, and my second monitor's window drag animation is stuttering. A poor decision by Microsoft that I'm hoping they'll reverse. I would also accept a seamless, practically invisible video driver update, but this would require a huge amount of coordination between nvidia and Microsoft and I doubt that will happen.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Yeah, the driver thing is one of those issues why I'm not updating right away. That and all driver updates should be optional and left to be installed manually just like in the past.
hockeypuck
Member
According to Guru3D forums it's a beta driver. Auto-update is even downloading unsigned drivers.
....and that's a problem. However--- I would bet money that is patched once the release version of W10 hits on the 29th.
Hopefully the mandatory 3rd party driver updates are patched as well.
Yeah I wonder if that was an accident.
seems like Microsoft is pushing through anything that would have been in the optional category on previous windows updates which is not cool.
going to wait for someone to sneak in a google/yahoo toolbar with the forced updates and watch the world burn.
you upgrade to get the windows 10 key tied to your mircorsoft account. then you can use a usb/dvd without a key to do a completely clean install. you log back into the Microsoft account to reactivate.
Have to do the upgrade first, but once done, go to settings and then reset.
I've been using 10240 since release for some actual power work. Including video editing, virtual machines, openvpn.
So far Win 10 is extremely rough around its edges:
It's asked me how to open .msi files
It only shows 5 recent programs no matter the size of the menu.
The recent programs update extremely slowly. I have been using the same tools/programs over and over and it's barely changed the menu.
Settings/Control Panel is a complete mess
Shitty square icons for legacy programs in start menu
Start menu lag, typing not registering for many seconds
Sometimes start menu won't open/freezes
Permission issues with UAC Disabled, some programs still need Run As Admin even if you are Admin and it has the Admin icon on the bottom of the installer/application icon.
Windows menus that launch a web browser ignore your default programs and instead launch Edge always
VMware networking issues and similarly with OpenVPN (permissions).
I haven't had the start menu lag before this build, it was upgraded each build from 10130. I will fresh install on the 29th and will have to install classic shell.
I also can't understand the lack of customisation of categories in Explorer. The whole thing is a cluttered mess of shortcuts duplicated all over the place.
In terms of speed I haven't noticed any difference. The metro apps still aren't that fast to open either. Edge seems decent but needs extension support, which I know is in progress.
I use 7 daily on my gaming PC and every time I switch back to it, I feel like it's solid, everything is hassle free. No inconsistent UI.
Edit jut installed startisback rc2, immediately 100x better. Lets me hide the metro apps, can have as many recent programs as i want, i like 12, and all the shortcuts down the right just like Win 7. Its so much easier to browse the all programs list too, since its all a single list without breaks (showing starting letters), much easier to scroll through since it shows so many more entries using thin list view.
So far Win 10 is extremely rough around its edges:
It's asked me how to open .msi files
It only shows 5 recent programs no matter the size of the menu.
The recent programs update extremely slowly. I have been using the same tools/programs over and over and it's barely changed the menu.
Settings/Control Panel is a complete mess
Shitty square icons for legacy programs in start menu
Start menu lag, typing not registering for many seconds
Sometimes start menu won't open/freezes
Permission issues with UAC Disabled, some programs still need Run As Admin even if you are Admin and it has the Admin icon on the bottom of the installer/application icon.
Windows menus that launch a web browser ignore your default programs and instead launch Edge always
VMware networking issues and similarly with OpenVPN (permissions).
I haven't had the start menu lag before this build, it was upgraded each build from 10130. I will fresh install on the 29th and will have to install classic shell.
I also can't understand the lack of customisation of categories in Explorer. The whole thing is a cluttered mess of shortcuts duplicated all over the place.
In terms of speed I haven't noticed any difference. The metro apps still aren't that fast to open either. Edge seems decent but needs extension support, which I know is in progress.
I use 7 daily on my gaming PC and every time I switch back to it, I feel like it's solid, everything is hassle free. No inconsistent UI.
Edit jut installed startisback rc2, immediately 100x better. Lets me hide the metro apps, can have as many recent programs as i want, i like 12, and all the shortcuts down the right just like Win 7. Its so much easier to browse the all programs list too, since its all a single list without breaks (showing starting letters), much easier to scroll through since it shows so many more entries using thin list view.
With the mandatory driver updates you can go back and uninstall certain things from nvidia right? I'm on 8.1 atm but I'm worried about upgrading now as some of the optional stuff fucks with my audio setup. Would be a pain to have to fix it every time an update is rolled out.
I think the mandatory driver updates are only for the beta. It would make no sense to allow people to stick with old unsupported beta drivers in a beta version of Windows. BTW, the latest NVidia drivers fixed the distorted cursors and the flickering.
I don't get people who haven't even used 10 wanting to get rid of the metro apps. They work like normal apps now, no fullscreen bullshit, there's no reason to be hating other than yelling at clouds. Receiving a notification when you get an email or message without having to waste CPU and RAM keeping the email or messaging app running in background or a tab opened in my browser is fantastic.
The "they take too long to open" complaint is simply a matter of perception. Modern apps, when launched, open their windows instantly display a logo while loading the executable while Desktop apps need to load their executables first before being able to show a window. For example, if I launch Chrome it takes a couple seconds before it shows up, the only feedback my PC is doing anything is the HDD light blinking. Meanwhile Edge will open a window the instant I launch it and will take a couple seconds to show the UI.
4. "Metro" apps run in normal windows as they should have since the beginning, so they are actually useful on desktops and laptops beyond watching Netflix
5. No more hidden mouse gestures needed to fully use the OS
6. Notification center
7. DirectX 12, which brings console-style "coding to the metal" performance to PC
Just for fun, here's a Windows 7 version of your post:
I don't get people who haven't even used 10 wanting to get rid of the metro apps. They work like normal apps now, no fullscreen bullshit, there's no reason to be hating other than yelling at clouds. Receiving a notification when you get an email or message without having to waste CPU and RAM keeping the email or messaging app running in background or a tab opened in my browser is fantastic.
The "they take too long to open" complaint is simply a matter of perception. Modern apps, when launched, open their windows instantly display a logo while loading the executable while Desktop apps need to load their executables first before being able to show a window. For example, if I launch Chrome it takes a couple seconds before it shows up, the only feedback my PC is doing anything is the HDD light blinking. Meanwhile Edge will open a window the instant I launch it and will take a couple seconds to show the UI.
4. "Metro" apps run in normal windows as they should have since the beginning, so they are actually useful on desktops and laptops beyond watching Netflix
5. No more hidden mouse gestures needed to fully use the OS
6. Notification center
7. DirectX 12, which brings console-style "coding to the metal" performance to PC
Just for fun, here's a Windows 7 version of your post:
I think 4 is underestimated by a lot of people. There are some genuinely great Metro apps out there, and IMO they behave a lot better than traditional apps.
I think the hatred of Windows 8 UI turned into irrational hatred of the very concept of Modern apps wholesale for some people. When they are demoted into normal windows like any other win32 app in Windows 10 instead of running "outside" the desktop in Windows 8, there's no clear reason to loath them.
1. There's no need to deal with download sites or second guess whether the download link Google gave you is the correct one.
2. Can be uninstalled by right clicking on them.
3. They cannot mess up your PC during install.
4. Can be installed without giving their installers admin rights. BTW, an installer is just a normal program like any other and it can do whatever the fuck it wants to your PC when you click "yes". Installers can contain bugs as well.
5. They won't come bundled with toolbars, adware and malware.
6. Won't leave leftover files, services and registry entries when uninstalled.
7. Updates are handled by the OS, so they won't install "update" services or schedules "update checks"
8. Apps like email clients, instant messengers and other communication apps can display notifications without the need to be running in the background and bloating your boot time.
Windows has been in dire need for a new application model for over a decade and with 10 I think they finally got themselves in the right track. Nowadays "freeware" on Windows has become a synonym for "toolbars, adware and malware bundled software". Desktops and laptops can definitely benefit for a mobile-like hassle free application management experience, specially when people are defecting en masse to phones and tablets as their primary computing platforms, where they don't need to worry about wrecking their devices by clicking the wrong link.
Just look at how popular Steam has become among PC gamers: one of its biggest strengths is often said to be how convenient it makes to download, install and update games compared to the "old ways".
Also, Windows 10 allows side-loading apps without the need for a developer account. It's just a toggle in the settings, like on Android.
I really hope the Windows 10 store takes off, so it can be finally viable to put my relatives into non-admin accounts.
tycoonheart
Member
Question. I have 3 different copies of windows 8.1 (desktop, laptop, htpc) using the same Microsoft account for login. They will give me 3 keys right?
Insane Metal
Member
Oh wow, suddenly Chrome won't start, so I go on to try Edge and I'm surprised at how fast it is. O_O
Not really seeing why the Windows 7 version post was called for but whatever. Again, I think you're missing my point. Xbox One wasn't fun until those monthly updates with new features showed up. I think Microsoft is gambling the same approach in releasing Windows that way now.
Metro apps still run better as full in terms of its dumbed down design. Teaching old people on how to use a desktop version of Skype can be very difficult compared to the old Metro version.
Problem is there is a lot of junkware and fake apps in the Windows Metro app store when it has the lowest app numbers compared to the other two stores.
It's almost like Microsoft doesn't even care about the quality of apps on there, which totally negates your points. Why should anyone else care?
They can start by taking care of stuff there.
I think what will be more important later is when desktop apps can be managed with like an apt-get command via powershell. In fact, with the beauty of powershell, we can use Windows with the same Linux commands to manage.
Dead Prince
Banned
conspiracy!
I'm really confused as to when users are supposed to be getting Windows 10?
I heard preview members will get it 29th, but I'm not a preview member. I reserved Windows 10 pretty much as soon as you could, so when should I expect it? Days or Months to wait?
Just pretty stupid. Why bother hyping 29th July if like 95% of people won't be able to get it anyway.
I heard preview members will get it 29th, but I'm not a preview member. I reserved Windows 10 pretty much as soon as you could, so when should I expect it? Days or Months to wait?
Just pretty stupid. Why bother hyping 29th July if like 95% of people won't be able to get it anyway.
Vanillalite
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