So glad that the people at MS aren't this stupid. Why the hell would anyone want to have to start carrying two devices when one does the job, maybe not as effective as targeted solution but good enough for the transition phase were everything is moving toward touch and NUI.
Windows 8 Release Preview
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So glad that the people at MS aren't this stupid. Why the hell would anyone want to have to start carrying two devices when one does the job, maybe not as effective as targeted solution but good enough for the transition phase were everything is moving toward touch and NUI.
But what about the hybrid laptop/tablets then that take advantage of both? I think MS is betting that the transformer style laptops are going to be a huge market that'll bridge the tablet-PC divide and judging from the reaction when the snapped a keyboard onto their Surface in their demo I think they're right.
What about a motorcycle???
lunarworks
Member
A motorcycle is essentially a beefy bicycle. Same form factor. So let's call the bicycle a smartphone, and the motorcycle a tablet.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
There is a big difference between streamlining and simplifying and "dumbing down". Every iteration of an OS attempts to make doing common tasks simpler and easier. Your assertion that people should be forced to become more computer literate to use their OS is kinda silly. People just want their shit to work and they want it to work quickly so they can do what they want to do. Not everyone has fun organizing files. I do but I'm OCD that way. My girlfriend doesn't care where shit goes on her computer, that doesn't mean she's unintelligent. For many people a computer is just a tool to get to their content, information or work. Doing those tasks quickly and easily does not mean an OS is designed for idiots.
Some people, like my nephew, love to tinker with cars. He's constantly working on the engine, replacing parts with better parts, customizing the insides and outsides. I just want my car to work. I don't care how it works. Does that mean I'm dumb? No, it means I have different priorities in life.
The ability to go behind the scenes, if you will, and micromanage your computer will be there but that doesn't mean the OS should be designed around requiring micromanaging.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I can plug a keyboard, mouse and monitor into my tablet. Tell me again why it's not a PC?
lunarworks
Member
Damon Bennet
Member
there really is not a single reason why these with clovertrail would not eat the netbook and low to mid-end notebook market:
and if you have a tablet with a full OS it, where does android on tablets stand? I guess 7" formfactor will be their niche, if apple isnt going to munch that up this fall
LukasTaves
Member
This. Once they have the mentality that they don't need to close an app to start another they will just use the start button/charm/corner.
Monumental
Banned
lol, you're a joke.
Metro apps aren't meant to be closed so it doesn't matter whether you know to drag from top to bottom. And if the right click menu showing up at the bottom being a swipe up for touch users isn't intuitive to you then you're not as tech savvy as you thought.
And at the end of the day, showing someone ONCE in 10 seconds that they have to swipe up/down/left/right, is the easiest thing in the world. If you think that's going to be a major barrier for anyone over the age of 4, then that says a lot about you.
What I truly find amusing is the onslaught of "power users" who've been using computers for decades and decreeing Metro/Windows 8 as a lowest common denominator OS, yet are too stupid to understand simple swipe gestures. Just because you're head's up your ass, doesn't mean the rest of the world is full of shit.
lunarworks
Member
Let's take a moment and put things into context before throwing the insults around:
Microsoft hyped the "Consumer Preview" and encouraged millions of people, mainly "power users" (the only ones with enough courage to install pre-release software), to download and install it.
At the same time, Microsoft did an extremely half-assed job of explaining how to interact with the new UX, leaving everyone to explore it in a trial by error method. If you've never "dragged an app down", and no one's explained it to you, it's a fairly non-obvious thing to do. It's like the first time I tried out a BlackBerry Playbook. I had no clue whatsoever that I had to swipe from outside the screen to get to certain things, and it wasn't spelled out for me AT ALL.
longdi
Banned
yeah i remember how ms forced the UAC thing so developers will write their apps so the prompt wont appear. so did they achieved success?
idk cos' i turned UAC off.
Swipe gestures on a mouse don't exactly work as well as on a Tablet. If anything, they are way more annoying to replicate.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
So make up your minds. Is this an OS for idiots and children or is it too complicated to use without a manual?
Seriously though, if you're the type of user who is willing to install a beta OS then you should also be able to do a little bit of cursory reading to understand the changes to the OS. They even had a few videos showing how the OS worked, take 2 mins and watch one.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
there really is not a single reason why these with clovertrail would not eat the netbook and low to mid-end notebook market:
and if you have a tablet with a full OS it, where does android on tablets stand? I guess 7" formfactor will be their niche, if apple isnt going to munch that up this fall
I need this shit in 15".
There are no swipe gestures on a mouse, though... It's all hot-corners.
It's the same thing you have been doing for 25 years with a new skin. There has to be some progress sometime.
MS didn't hype the Consumer Preview to convince power users on the new Metro. They did it to get millions of free bug and beta testers.
lunarworks
Member
Yes, but Microsoft didn't go out there and explicitly say "help us test this" like they did with previous Connect programs. They went out there and said "try our new shiny".
Something can be simple and non-obvious at the same time. How many times have you slapped your forehead and said "duh" when you found out you've been doing something the wrong way all along?
If they're introducing a new paradigm, the onus is on them to properly introduce the end user to it. People are remarkably lazy, and strongly dislike going out of their way to find out how to use something. Even "power users", who pride themselves on figuring stuff out without a manual. This is part of the reason why, for gaming, in-game tutorials have replaced manuals.
A prominent tile on the home screen saying "Click here to learn how to use Windows 8", with a few simple tutorials, would have been a wise and easy thing to include. Especially since users of the Consumer Preview widely broadcast their impressions across the net.
lunarworks
Member
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Steelyuhas
Member
I like the layout of the app and it performs better than the site from my experience. Obviously do whatever you prefer though.
Damon Bennet
Member
so you say those "powerusers" and tech-fans did not see the various reveals of windows 8, where exactly these functions where detailled? Before I used W8 for the first time, I already knew about the corners, swipes etc. If I did, anyone could have known that, and people who use a pre-release version of an OS should be able to educate themselves.
for the RTM there is a short tutorial for the respective changes
I'm not entirely decided on my opinion on Windows 8. But all these discussions about the tutorials made me think: It's ok for everyone that installed W8 on their own and watch the tutorials before the first boot. But what about those people that need someone else to install the OS for them? Or they'll go visit someone that uses W8 and they never saw or knew anything about it? The tutorials won't be there. They could search or ask someone else about how to use it. But I think most won't have the patience to do that. They'll just give up.
It's basic for us to hit the Windows key, use shortcuts, hover the mouse to the corner of the screen, but most people just like to see buttons for what they need to do. I don't know, I guess we'll find out how this is going to be like when the system is officially launched.
It's basic for us to hit the Windows key, use shortcuts, hover the mouse to the corner of the screen, but most people just like to see buttons for what they need to do. I don't know, I guess we'll find out how this is going to be like when the system is officially launched.
lunarworks
Member
That's why there should be a prominent (but removable) tile on the home screen containing a tutorial.
lunarworks
Member
Seriously. There's no need to get personal over an OS debate. This isn't Grade 8.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Those GAF peasants and fanboys with their personal insults.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
just curious, but at what point did anyone personally insult you.
you could try not calling the people you're discussing this with peasants!
Touch mouse.
there really is not a single reason why these with clovertrail would not eat the netbook and low to mid-end notebook market:
and if you have a tablet with a full OS it, where does android on tablets stand? I guess 7" formfactor will be their niche, if apple isnt going to munch that up this fall
Yeah, iPad Mini is going to really hurt the 7" Android tablets.
Has anyone here used the touch mouse with W8?
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I still have one of these bad boys:
5" screen, full PC. I should try installing Windows 8 on it. I don't use it anymore because the battery won't hold a charge any longer so I have to use it plugged in but it has a Wacom digitizer and I got some good use out of it.
I love to see that kind of form factor again.
brotkasten
Member
I still have one of these bad boys:
5" screen, full PC. I should try installing Windows 8 on it. I don't use it anymore because the battery won't hold a charge any longer so I have to use it plugged in but it has a Wacom digitizer and I got some good use out of it.
I love to see that kind of form factor again.
I can't believe they shipped that with a full version of Vista.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Yep, it was a pretty decent machine, 1.5 GHz processor and 1 gig of ram. I was able to use Zbrush on it with the pen which was fun for sketching. It came in handy on vacation since it fit in your pocket.
I don't think I could install Win8 though because it was only 800x480 although I'm sure because if I remember correct it actually runs 1280x720 and scales it.
Monumental
Banned
BULLSHIT. Any idiot could spend 10 seconds searching for the Microsoft videos explaining the new UI usage for touch/keyboard/mouse. Microsoft made the videos, and they were everywhere. Yet "power users" said fuck it, we don't need to watch your videos. And then 10 minutes later, came on to tech forums and started whining about how "unintuitive" it is. It's quite pathetic if "power users" couldn't watch a short video and resorted to bitching and whining online about how it's so unfamiliar.
Exactly.
there really is not a single reason why these with clovertrail would not eat the netbook and low to mid-end notebook market:
and if you have a tablet with a full OS it, where does android on tablets stand? I guess 7" formfactor will be their niche, if apple isnt going to munch that up this fall
lol? full os? Why isnt android a full os?
Android is far better on tablets then windows 8.
And its pointless trying to have intelligent debate in this thread, its like criticising anime in a final fantasy thread.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Design is fairly simple. If after 10 minutes with a `intuitive` new design savvy computer people need to watch a video to figure it out, then its badly designed.
Good design is simple: the less you look for shit and try to figure shit out, the better designed it is. This is garbage.
When you go on a new site, it takes you about 1 second to figure out what gets you where. If you have to watch a video in order to understand the site, then whoever designed the site needs to close up shop my friend. Same exact shit with this caca OS.
Because Amazon? My Nexus 7 had 0 tutorials. Same with my Galaxy s 2.
But then Balmer thinks you need a CS license to use Android.
And my Galaxy Nexus had a bunch of crap I had to read and press "ok" every time I went to a screen for the first time! Clearly this "Google" is full of idiots and Android will fail.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Yes because Google got known and rich because of their intuitive OS designs and not their search engine.
You guys talking as if the new UI would just deter average users from using Windows 8 is missing one point. This is Windows and is the standard de facto operating system for the masses for decades. If Windows 7 and Windows 8 is on the shelf, the average user won't think twice to buy Windows 8. And if Windows 8 is installed in their system, would you think the average user would go through all that trouble to get a Windows 7 install disc just to override their so called "disgust"? People will adapt to new interfaces if they need to, and however terrible you think the new UI is, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to use it. What are the other options? Learn how to downgrade to Windows 7? Buy a Macbook and run OS X? As if that's any less complicated to do? You guys are funny.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Vista says hi.
Says hi to what? I have a bunch of "normal" users in the office who would rather stick to Vista than upgrade to Windows 7 even if I tell them repeatedly to.
Steelyuhas
Member
I believe Vista had over 200 million users.
Windows 95 confused people too:
http://media.ch9.ms/ch9/dac9/5a953b82-586d-40a2-801c-12746230dac9/Win95Start_high.mp4
http://media.ch9.ms/ch9/4a95/8e5a19e3-d5b7-40d8-ae5a-d8e2302d4a95/Win95UsabilityTesting1993_high.mp4
Windows 8 is different. It'll be confusing. But people will learn. And once they learn a single new interface, it'll be 100% consistent across every single device they use, whether it's a tablet, desktop, or laptop.
Most importantly, it'll be consistent for what will be the most important form factor of all - devices that combine one or more of them.
The most vocal critics are also being the most myopic, ignoring the obvious future where people don't walk around with multiple devices, but a single device that can effortlessly be used in multiple different ways.
http://media.ch9.ms/ch9/dac9/5a953b82-586d-40a2-801c-12746230dac9/Win95Start_high.mp4
http://media.ch9.ms/ch9/4a95/8e5a19e3-d5b7-40d8-ae5a-d8e2302d4a95/Win95UsabilityTesting1993_high.mp4
Windows 8 is different. It'll be confusing. But people will learn. And once they learn a single new interface, it'll be 100% consistent across every single device they use, whether it's a tablet, desktop, or laptop.
Most importantly, it'll be consistent for what will be the most important form factor of all - devices that combine one or more of them.
The most vocal critics are also being the most myopic, ignoring the obvious future where people don't walk around with multiple devices, but a single device that can effortlessly be used in multiple different ways.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Actually i remember seeing a lot of people sticking to XP and a lot of retail companies not putting Vista on the computers they were selling. Just because MS does something doesnt mean its great. Vista was a failure and im sure you were boasting that too. Im sure most of you in here will all just eat Win8 up, im just not so sure about everyone else in the world.
You should sign out of GAF at work, balmers using your account!
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