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Windows 8 / RT |OT|

itxaka

Defeatist
I've rolled it out across my business and my staff find it easier to use if its done right, no two ways about it they do.

Windows 8's problem is the "knowledgeable" IT guys thinking they know better than the people they are serving by insisting people use a product that noobs find complex and scary because that is how it has always been done.

The problem is not people. The problem is legacy apps. It's always the same in every business. Maybe if your company is 10 people its easier to transition apps to new platforms and upgrade them, but in a big company, legacy is all that matters.

For fucks, sake we are using a win2k around for user validation. I kid you not.

We are using x.25 , yes the same one that was removed from all america in the 90s. Its still in use in this business, a freaking telecom.

Legacy is IT's worst enemy.
 

kitch9

Banned
What if you could have a personalized start screen only with things related to the company you work for? Shortcuts, tiles displaying information relevant to your work and etc. It would be your company's hub inside the OS.
This would make things easier, as the rest of the OS is just like W7 (better of course) anyways.

You can do that, then make a system image of it and deploy that image. Noobs find the new start more inviting for some reason they are less scared of clicking stuff they think they shouldn't.
 

Ran rp

Member
This is a general Windows question but is it possible at all to have two layers of desktop wallpaper? I want a setup where I have an alternating background image and a static, transparent schedule .png over that.

If not, does anyone know of any Rainmeter option that can place a simple image file on the desktop?
 

MCD

Junior Member
Prices of Windows RT tablets drop, point to failure of OS

Dell's XPS 10 32gig is now US$449 ($50 off)
64 gig is now $499 ($100 off)

Asus' VivoTab RT is now $382 ($217 off) on Amazon. other retailers like Best Buy are selling it for $549

Lenovo is offering the IdeaPad Yoga 11 for $599 as part of a seven-day deal, which is a drop from the original $799 price. However, TigerDirect is offering an IdeaPad Yoga 11 model for $599 on its website, while Amazon is selling a model for $499.99.

Microsoft Surface RT is not affected.

Now if only MS will wise up and start to offer desktop apps through the store...
 

maeh2k

Member
Prices of Windows RT tablets drop, point to failure of OS

Dell's XPS 10 32gig is now US$449 ($50 off)
64 gig is now $499 ($100 off)

Asus' VivoTab RT is now $382 ($217 off) on Amazon. other retailers like Best Buy are selling it for $549

Lenovo is offering the IdeaPad Yoga 11 for $599 as part of a seven-day deal, which is a drop from the original $799 price. However, TigerDirect is offering an IdeaPad Yoga 11 model for $599 on its website, while Amazon is selling a model for $499.99.

Microsoft Surface RT is not affected.

Now if only MS will wise up and start to offer desktop apps through the store...

Failure of OS my ass. Those things wouldn't sell better with Android, either. Now there are already rumors about the next Nexus 7 with a faster chipset and fullHD, which will come in at 200$ or less. Not that surprising those Android tablets sell well when no one's really making much money off them.
 

MCD

Junior Member
It's a failure. I own a Surface RT and I can already see MS axing it just like they axed the beautiful Zune HD.

They can drop the price, make the store accept desktop apps, make desktop apps for RT, allow other stores like Valve or EA to make stores in the OS...

But nope, we gonna stick with our plan till it crashes and burn derp.

I'm still looking forward for the Haswell Surface Pro and the mini Surface 7 inch (RT or not) but as for the actual Surface RT? Nope, not gonna bother with the revision because a Tegra 4 RT isn't gonna change anything.
 

Jzero

Member
It's a failure. I own a Surface RT and I can already see MS axing it just like they axed the beautiful Zune HD.

They can drop the price, make the store accept desktop apps, make desktop apps for RT, allow other stores like Valve or EA to make stores in the OS...

But nope, we gonna stick with our plan till it crashes and burn derp.

I'm still looking forward for the Haswell Surface Pro and the mini Surface 7 inch (RT or not) but as for the actual Surface RT? Nope, not gonna bother with the revision because a Tegra 4 RT isn't gonna change anything.
Windows RT does suck, people should just save up for a full Windows 8 tablet.
 

dLMN8R

Member
Tell me this: If someone's in the (small, obviously) market for a Windows RT device, why would they get anything but the Surface RT?

Every other Windows RT device is built like a cheap piece of shit, with either a crappy screen, plastic body, horrible keyboard dock, or some combination of all those factors. No matter what you say about the Surface RT, at least it has an awesome screen (despite its resolution), incredible build quality, and the type cover is every bit as good as any laptop keyboard.

So even if the Surface RT was selling like hotcakes, why the heck wouldn't the prices of every other Windows RT device on the market drop quickly and substantially? Why would any software changes or anything else make any difference here? It's a clear-cut case where you have one choice that so obviously better than every other choice, so every other choice deserves to fail spectacularly.



Desktop apps on Windows RT simply isn't going to happen. It just isn't. It wouldn't make the device any more compelling, it would just cripple what's already a slow device. You'd have arbitrary and unmanaged background tasks destroying the performance, battery life, and reliability of the device. You'd open it up to malware problems. And from a technical perspective the Store is engineered to work exclusively with modern apps. It's not some generic distribution pipe that could technically send anything along.
 

MCD

Junior Member
Isn't the reason these devices are priced as such because of licensing the OS?

Trust me, I love the Surface RT. I had wonderful time with it during my vacation earlier this year but no one wants a PC that can't run their favorite program.

So what if they opened the way for viruses? Didn't stop Windows nor did it stop Android. Heck, there is a fucking Antivirus bundled with this so why the fear of opening it up?
 

clav

Member
Windows RT in growing pains

Needs more applications

If the vision is ever fulfilled, it will be a nice addition. Sucks that every user is a beta tester.
 

clav

Member
The problem is not people. The problem is legacy apps. It's always the same in every business. Maybe if your company is 10 people its easier to transition apps to new platforms and upgrade them, but in a big company, legacy is all that matters.

For fucks, sake we are using a win2k around for user validation. I kid you not.

We are using x.25 , yes the same one that was removed from all america in the 90s. Its still in use in this business, a freaking telecom.

Legacy is IT's worst enemy.

Thanks Vista

extended XP's support life

one more year one more year one more year
 

Duxxy3

Member
I have tried out windows 8 on a desktop, a laptop and now...

a tablet.

And somehow this tablet OS is somehow worse when used with a tablet, rather than a desktop, laptop or a hybrid.

I gave it a good long chance on multiple machines and inputs and windows 8 is just a colossal failure in every single one. It's a god awful desktop OS because it is highly inefficient compared to Windows XP/7 and OSX. It's a god awful tablet OS because it is highly inefficient compared to Android, iOS and even the fucking Blackberry Playbook. It tries to be an end all be all that works for both, but completely fails and doesn't do justice as a desktop OS, nor as a tablet OS.
 

Dawg

Member
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/jj554510.aspx

Anyone tried this yet? Downloading atm so I can try it out for three months.

"Thank you for downloading the Windows 8 Enterprise 90-day evaluation. Designed specifically for IT professionals, this evaluation is designed to help you become more familiar with the key features of Windows 8 Enterprise"

Does it have specific functions for IT professionals? I just want to try out the standard version and test boot speed and games :p
 
I have tried out windows 8 on a desktop, a laptop and now...

a tablet.

And somehow this tablet OS is somehow worse when used with a tablet, rather than a desktop, laptop or a hybrid.

I gave it a good long chance on multiple machines and inputs and windows 8 is just a colossal failure in every single one. It's a god awful desktop OS because it is highly inefficient compared to Windows XP/7 and OSX. It's a god awful tablet OS because it is highly inefficient compared to Android, iOS and even the fucking Blackberry Playbook. It tries to be an end all be all that works for both, but completely fails and doesn't do justice as a desktop OS, nor as a tablet OS.

Can you elaborate? Are you just referring to the app availability as a tablet? I think it outclasses any other tablet OS if we're talking outside of the realm of app count.
 

Troll

Banned
I have tried out windows 8 on a desktop, a laptop and now...

a tablet.

And somehow this tablet OS is somehow worse when used with a tablet, rather than a desktop, laptop or a hybrid.

I gave it a good long chance on multiple machines and inputs and windows 8 is just a colossal failure in every single one. It's a god awful desktop OS because it is highly inefficient compared to Windows XP/7 and OSX. It's a god awful tablet OS because it is highly inefficient compared to Android, iOS and even the fucking Blackberry Playbook. It tries to be an end all be all that works for both, but completely fails and doesn't do justice as a desktop OS, nor as a tablet OS.

So, could you elaborate a little on this? I'm just curious on how you ended up at this conclusion.
 

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
I have tried out windows 8 on a desktop, a laptop and now...

a tablet.

And somehow this tablet OS is somehow worse when used with a tablet, rather than a desktop, laptop or a hybrid.

I gave it a good long chance on multiple machines and inputs and windows 8 is just a colossal failure in every single one. It's a god awful desktop OS because it is highly inefficient compared to Windows XP/7 and OSX. It's a god awful tablet OS because it is highly inefficient compared to Android, iOS and even the fucking Blackberry Playbook. It tries to be an end all be all that works for both, but completely fails and doesn't do justice as a desktop OS, nor as a tablet OS.

:lol
 

Duxxy3

Member
So, could you elaborate a little on this? I'm just curious on how you ended up at this conclusion.

By using it.

I have never and will never recommend windows 8 to anybody, now I won't even recommend it for a tablet.

When i say tablet I mean strictly as a tablet - no keyboard or mouse. iOS, Android and the Playbook were designed, from the ground up, to run strictly as touch based. Try adding a keyboard or a mouse to them and they are awkward to use.
Windows was designed, from the ground up, to use a keyboard and a mouse. Microsoft attempted to staple a touch based UI onto a working operating system and it is awkward using either input.

Microsoft should have completely ditched the desktop as well as the keyboard and mouse interface for windows 8. Windows 7 should have received another service pack with the windows 8 improvement (which i do like).
 

MCD

Junior Member
Did you completely ignore the new start menu and apps? Because that's where the tablet part comes in.
 

Troll

Banned
Fairly hyperbolic when you consider the changes at the end of the day aren't actually that big.

Hey, man. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and we should at least give this poster the chance to explain why they are so upset with Windows 8, right?

By using it.

I have never and will never recommend windows 8 to anybody, now I won't even recommend it for a tablet.

When i say tablet I mean strictly as a tablet - no keyboard or mouse. iOS, Android and the Playbook were designed, from the ground up, to run strictly as touch based. Try adding a keyboard or a mouse to them and they are awkward to use.
Windows was designed, from the ground up, to use a keyboard and a mouse. Microsoft attempted to staple a touch based UI onto a working operating system and it is awkward using either input.

Microsoft should have completely ditched the desktop as well as the keyboard and mouse interface for windows 8. Windows 7 should have received another service pack with the windows 8 improvement (which i do like).

Let me guess, IE was launching in desktop mode. You can fix that in the settings.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Did you completely ignore the new start menu and apps? Because that's where the tablet part comes in.

The new start menu has 1/10 the functionality of the old one. And like i said, the vast majority of windows apps are not meant for a tablet.

Let me guess, IE was launching in desktop mode. You can fix that in the settings.

I didn't mention IE.
 

jagowar

Member
The new start menu has 1/10 the functionality of the old one. And like i said, the vast majority of windows apps are not meant for a tablet.

Are we using the same windows 8? The new startscreen literally does everything the old start menu could do and more (live tiles, app notifications, integrating control panel stuff into the start screen, etc).

The multitasking and contract features alone make win8 far more powerful than android or ios imo.
 

derFeef

Member
The "new start menu" has as much funcitonality as you want it to have. I did not even use the startmenu in 7 anymore - I use the modernUI much more.
 

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
By using it.

I have never and will never recommend windows 8 to anybody, now I won't even recommend it for a tablet.

When i say tablet I mean strictly as a tablet - no keyboard or mouse. iOS, Android and the Playbook were designed, from the ground up, to run strictly as touch based. Try adding a keyboard or a mouse to them and they are awkward to use.
Windows was designed, from the ground up, to use a keyboard and a mouse. Microsoft attempted to staple a touch based UI onto a working operating system and it is awkward using either input.

Microsoft should have completely ditched the desktop as well as the keyboard and mouse interface for windows 8. Windows 7 should have received another service pack with the windows 8 improvement (which i do like).

I use it every day on both a tablet and desktop PC. I'm not sure how anyone can say it's not a good OS on tablets. Are you only using desktop apps on it?
 

Duxxy3

Member
Are we using the same windows 8? The new startscreen literally does everything the old start menu could do and more (live tiles, app notifications, integrating control panel stuff into the start screen, etc).

The multitasking and contract features alone make win8 far more powerful than android or ios imo.

With one click i have access to all my programs, the control panel, power controls, all of my files, a list of my most used programs and access to all the settings i could ever use... all under the start menu. The windows 8 start screen is just not as efficient.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Someone saying windows 8 sucks on a tablet? That is honestly the first time I have heard that complaint. Normally its all about laptops and desktops. Anyway I use it on a tablet all the time. Love it, couldn't go back to any other OS that does not have the snapping capabilities like 8. Can't wait for 8.1's improvements too. Such a powerful OS for a tablet imo.

And btw if you want to use the desktop on a tablet increase it to 125% or 150%. Bigger touch targets. And you can buy a tablet with a stylus.
 

ralexand

100% logic failure rate
By using it.

I have never and will never recommend windows 8 to anybody, now I won't even recommend it for a tablet.

When i say tablet I mean strictly as a tablet - no keyboard or mouse. iOS, Android and the Playbook were designed, from the ground up, to run strictly as touch based. Try adding a keyboard or a mouse to them and they are awkward to use.
Windows was designed, from the ground up, to use a keyboard and a mouse. Microsoft attempted to staple a touch based UI onto a working operating system and it is awkward using either input.

Microsoft should have completely ditched the desktop as well as the keyboard and mouse interface for windows 8. Windows 7 should have received another service pack with the windows 8 improvement (which i do like).

Exactly, you have nothing. IE10Metro on a tablet is the best browsing experience there is.
 
With one click i have access to all my programs, the control panel, power controls, all of my files, a list of my most used programs and access to all the settings i could ever use... all under the start menu. The windows 8 start screen is just not as efficient.

I guess I'm a little confused why you're trying to look at a tablet as a desktop. I can see your complaint as being valid if you're viewing Windows 8 as a desktop OS (as many people have similar complaints), but as most people consider Metro to be the "tablet" UI, why are you expecting it to act as a desktop UI?

I know this speaks to the "WTF is Windows 8" problem, but if you're comparing iOS/Android tablet UI to JUST Windows 8's Metro UI...Metro wins hands down.
 

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
With one click i have access to all my programs, the control panel, power controls, all of my files, a list of my most used programs and access to all the settings i could ever use... all under the start menu. The windows 8 start screen is just not as efficient.

If you one click the Start button you open the menu. How is it one click access to any of that? In fact, getting to power user features is way faster in Windows 8. Have you ever right-clicked in the lower left corner?

image.png
 

Duxxy3

Member
If you one click the Start button you open the menu. How is it one click access to any of that? In fact, getting to power user features is way faster in Windows 8. Have you ever right-clicked in the lower left corner?

image.png

That still accounts for less than half of what I get from a regular start menu.

I guess I'm a little confused why you're trying to look at a tablet as a desktop. I can see your complaint as being valid if you're viewing Windows 8 as a desktop OS (as many people have similar complaints), but as most people consider Metro to be the "tablet" UI, why are you expecting it to act as a desktop UI?

I know this speaks to the "WTF is Windows 8" problem, but if you're comparing iOS/Android tablet UI to JUST Windows 8's Metro UI...Metro wins hands down.

It is suppose to be a tablet OS and a desktop OS. My argument is that is fails to fully realize either.

It reminds me of something that i heard in Parks and Rec, that a camel is a horse designed by a committee. Windows 8 had different designs from so many places that instead of working toward a single vision, everyone got what they wanted and we got a camel instead of a horse.

Exactly, you have nothing. IE10Metro on a tablet is the best browsing experience there is.

If all I ever needed the tablets to do at work was to browse I am sure that IE10Metro would be just fine.
 

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
That still accounts for less than half of what I get from a regular start menu.

Not of the examples you gave:

With one click i have access to all my programs

All your programs are in the Start screen, probably better organized and easier to reach.

the control panel

2 clicks as shown

power controls

ditto

all of my files

1 clicks since explorer is pinned to the taskbar by default

a list of my most used programs

All your most used programs should be pinned to the start menu for 2 click access

and access to all the settings i could ever use

Use the same menu as above.

So everything you mentioned can be accessed with 2 clicks in Windows 8. You can't say the same for the old Start menu.
 

Duxxy3

Member
But how is that less functional/usable than iOS/Android/BB?

Does anybody actually think Win8 is a better tablet OS than iOS/Android/BB?

Half of the OS is incredibly unfriendly to touch screen use. Win8 tries to be the best of both worlds but (in my opinion) fails on both ends.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Not of the examples you gave:



All your programs are in the Start screen, probably better organized and easier to reach.



2 clicks as shown



ditto



1 clicks since explorer is pinned to the taskbar by default



All your most used programs should be pinned to the start menu for 2 click access



Use the same menu as above.

So everything you mentioned can be accessed with 2 clicks in Windows 8. You can't say the same for the old Start menu.

So you're saying that everything that was under a single menu is still available in windows 8... in a dozen different places instead of one.

That's the definition of inefficiency.
 

Lynn616

Member
With one click i have access to all my programs, the control panel, power controls, all of my files, a list of my most used programs and access to all the settings i could ever use... all under the start menu. The windows 8 start screen is just not as efficient.

Start screen is the exact same as the old start menu. Just start typing and there is all your settings, apps and files right there. You also will have access to quickly search within all your other apps from that same search. It is far more powerful and useful than the old start menu.
 
Does anybody actually think Win8 is a better tablet OS than iOS/Android/BB?

Half of the OS is incredibly unfriendly to touch screen use. Win8 tries to be the best of both worlds but (in my opinion) fails on both ends.
I LOVE my iPad, i wont give it up any time soon and I still think Windows 8 is the better tablet OS.

The UI is so much better, is ridiculous. Sometimes I access my PC from my iPad via Splashtop (because theres stuff my iPad can't do, unlike W8) and don't even want to switch back, because I want to keep using the OS on my iPad, with touch.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Start screen is the exact same as the old start menu. Just start typing and there is all your settings, apps and files right there. You also will have access to quickly search within all your other apps from that same search. It is far more powerful and useful than the old start menu.

I could search in windows 7 as well.

I LOVE my iPad, i wont give it up any time soon and I still think Windows 8 is the better tablet OS.

The UI is so much better, is ridiculous. Sometimes I access my PC from my iPad via Splashtop (because theres stuff my iPad can't do, unlike W8) and don't even want to switch back, because I want to keep using the OS on my iPad, with touch.

Do you mind me asking what you use on your windows 8 tablet?
 
I just turned on my Surface in a few days and Windows updated. Now I can scrub on a tile and it gives me the option to make the tile smaller, unpin it, and change it from live to static. Was it always like that or is that new?

If it has always been there it is a bit of an example where discovering functionality is a lot about guesswork and hidden experimentation.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
I just turned on my Surface in a few days and Windows updated. Now I can scrub on a tile and it gives me the option to make the tile smaller, unpin it, and change it from live to static. Was it always like that or is that new?

If it has always been there it is a bit of an example where discovering functionality is a lot about guesswork and hidden experimentation.
Always like that.
 

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
So you're saying that everything that was under a single menu is still available in windows 8... in a dozen different places instead of one.

That's the definition of inefficiency.

It's in 2, and having everything available with 2 clicks is much more efficient than trying to navigate the Start menu.

You think a scrolling list and twirling down folders is efficient?
 

Duxxy3

Member
You said it wasn't as efficient. I was just pointing out it worked exactly the same with added functionality.

Searching is not as efficient. Which is why i prefer the start menu over it.

I'm just point out that arguably the best way to get around in windows 8, using search, is not very efficient and is no better or worse than the search function that was already in windows 7.
 

btrboyev

Member
I just turned on my Surface in a few days and Windows updated. Now I can scrub on a tile and it gives me the option to make the tile smaller, unpin it, and change it from live to static. Was it always like that or is that new?

If it has always been there it is a bit of an example where discovering functionality is a lot about guesswork and hidden experimentation.

Always been there. A quick flick down on a tile gives you those options. Always been like that.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Pin your most used applications to the taskbar/start screen/desktop and search for the others.
 
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