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[MCD]

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/11/4...feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+WinRumors+(WinRumors)

Intel Atom Bay Trail is here. 2 tablets from Dell and Asus already announced.

Prices can start at $200.

Again, is there a need for Arm?

 

[brotkasten]

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/11/4...feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+WinRumors+(WinRumors)

Intel Atom Bay Trail is here. 2 tablets from Dell and Asus already announced.

Prices can start at $200.

Again, is there a need for Arm?

Lenovo was talking about $200 Windows 8 Atom tablets a long time ago and I doubt we'll see convincing ones.

And of course there's a need for ARM. But is there a need for Windows RT? Probably not on a tablet.

 

[MCD]

Lenovo was talking about $200 Windows 8 Atom tablets a long time ago and I doubt we'll see convincing ones.

And of course there's a need for ARM. But is there a need for Windows RT? Probably not on a tablet.

People want cheap devices. Convincing be damned!

 

[Ghost]

Wow if Intel really can deliver $200 tablets they might finally be taking the fight to Qualcomm & Samsung & co

 

[maeh2k]

I suspect those $200 tablets will run Android and people as well as OEMs will continue to not give a shit about Windows 8.

 

[MCD]

Can someone tell me why we can't pay with MS account (formally known as MS points)?

If WP8 can then I don't see any reason why Windows 8 app store can't.

 

[dLMN8R]

Can someone tell me why we can't pay with MS account (formally known as MS points)?

If WP8 can then I don't see any reason why Windows 8 app store can't.

Windows 8.1's store includes support for your stored account value. I see the $39 in my account that was from my msft points earlier.

The feature isn't in Windows 8, probably never will be.

 

[MCD]

Windows 8.1's store includes support for your stored account value. I see the $39 in my account that was from my msft points earlier.

The feature isn't in Windows 8, probably never will be.

I'm using 8.1 beta though. Where did you see this?

 

[dLMN8R]

Might not be in there until the preview. You'd see it under "Your account" from the settings charm.

 

[MCD]

Might not be in there until the preview. You'd see it under "Your account" from the settings charm.

I see. So RTM should have it for certain.

I want to rely more on gift cards and less Visa so thank you for confirming it.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/11/4...feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+WinRumors+(WinRumors)

Intel Atom Bay Trail is here. 2 tablets from Dell and Asus already announced.

Prices can start at $200.

Again, is there a need for Arm?

There's maybe max two years left before ARM 64 bit starts shipping for OSX, Windows, and Chrome. And all the political limitations will be gone for Windows by then. Apple is already planning ahead with the phone.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Edit: Dbl post

 

[Razdek]

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/11/4...feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+WinRumors+(WinRumors)

Intel Atom Bay Trail is here. 2 tablets from Dell and Asus already announced.

Prices can start at $200.

Again, is there a need for Arm?

The RT defenders will show up soon saying they don't need legacy apps and prefer the lightweight of RT devices and how awesome the Windows Store is. These tablets pretty much eliminate the RT advantages and I wonder how much MS is going to launch Surface 2 at when these are already at a low price point.

 

[Nero3000]

The RT defenders will show up soon saying they don't need legacy apps and prefer the lightweight of RT devices and how awesome the Windows Store is. These tablets pretty much eliminate the RT advantages and I wonder how much MS is going to launch Surface 2 at when these are already at a low price point.

If all you do is run a web browser and other applications that are catered for in the Windows App store (Music, Videos, email etc. + office) and Windows RT runs just as well Baytrail Win8 tablets - at some point it doesn't matter what processor you run just the form factor (e.g. style, size, weight, battery life).

 

[Ghost]

I suspect those $200 tablets will run Android and people as well as OEMs will continue to not give a shit about Windows 8.

Na I think they will run both, and the "I love my Intel Android tablet but it doesn't run any of my apps" comments will bring us all great joy.

 

[Kiraly]

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/11/4...ablet-promises-11-hours-of-windows-8-for-just

There's this already

Bay Trail quadcore, full Windows 8.1 + Office + dock included for only 349 USD.

 

[MCD]

http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-...start-button-because-no-one-can-ever-be-happy

 

[Zeknurn]

Thurrot posted a good preview of the upcoming Windows tablets.

http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/fall-2013-windows-tablet-preview

 

[brotkasten]

Thurrot posted a good preview of the upcoming Windows tablets.

http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/fall-2013-windows-tablet-preview

Great overview of the upcoming devices. The fact that no OEM put a proper HD display into their 8" devices is highly disappointing. They fucking blew it. Dell might get my money, if the mentioned pen is a Wacom one (seems unlikely at that price).

e: Did some research and got contradicting reports. Some sites mention a 1080p display, others 1280x800.

 

[Azih]

I am surprised that there hasn't been any word on unifying the app stores for Windows 8 and Windows 8 phone. It's the only significant game changing edge that MS could offer app developers.

I imagine that there are people working fervishly in the background at MS trying to get this working. Maybe in 8.2?

 

[hadareud]

That's a good overview of what's coming up.

Good write-up by you, Brot.

 

[Razdek]

Thurrot posted a good preview of the upcoming Windows tablets.

http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/fall-2013-windows-tablet-preview

There's some pretty good ones in there and fair prices. I kinda hoping Microsoft launches the Surface 2 at the same prices they launched the Surface RT just for a good laugh.

 

[hwalker84]

If that Nokia price is true its DOA.

 

[Ghost]

I am surprised that there hasn't been any word on unifying the app stores for Windows 8 and Windows 8 phone. It's the only significant game changing edge that MS could offer app developers.

I imagine that there are people working fervishly in the background at MS trying to get this working. Maybe in 8.2?

They are pretty much as unified as they are gonna get. Pretty much every piece of code you write for RT will work on WP (there are some libraries with different names but the methods are normally identical). I don't really see an option for them to unify the rest as things stand because unlike on iOS, there's a massive difference between UI on WP and UI on Windows 8, even the most basic control like a listbox would have to work completely differently to meet the guidelines.


I think they'll settle for a shared kernal and keep working on the cross compiling. Having a 'Universal' Windows app is a long way away.

 

[Azih]

They are pretty much as unified as they are gonna get. Pretty much every piece of code you write for RT will work on WP (there are some libraries with different names but the methods are normally identical). I don't really see an option for them to unify the rest as things stand because unlike on iOS, there's a massive difference between UI on WP and UI on Windows 8, even the most basic control like a listbox would have to work completely differently to meet the guidelines.


I think they'll settle for a shared kernal and keep working on the cross compiling. Having a 'Universal' Windows app is a long way away.

Well if it's not a solvable problem then it's a huge blow to Microsoft's ability to get app developers on board then. App developers are typically small and supporting multiple OSes is very hard for them to do and MS has no edge to tempt them into taking on the cost burden of writing/supporting/maintaing apps for a Windows Store that does not bring in much revenue..

If they can't tempt devs with the massive potential userbase they would get by being able to write one app and have it available everywhere there is a windows 8 then MS is going to have to hope that SOME hardware on BOTH the Phone and tablet space, separately, finally fires the public's imagination enough to start getting enough marketshare to force app developers to spend the money to support it.

I don't know if a Universal app is an unsolvable problem though. Android apps have to account for a pretty wide variety of sizes already and tablets/desktops/TVs are just a really large screen as far as an app would be concerned (snap view requirements would be just more sizes, and I think snapview is optional for devs to support right?). Hell iPhone apps work on iPad don't they? I'm not saying it's easy to support different sizes, I'm just saying that it's something that devs already need to do and will need to do even more as Apple starts experimenting with different sizes anyway.

 

[maeh2k]

Thurrot posted a good preview of the upcoming Windows tablets.

http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/fall-2013-windows-tablet-preview

The Asus Transformer seems like a pretty good deal for $329 with keyboard dock and Office Home and Student. With more and more people using tablets for college that's an amazing package.
The unnamed Dell for $399 with Full hD, pen, and travel keyboard could be great, too. Even has a replaceable battery.

However, few 8" devices and no one's actually trying to hit $199. Compared to a lot of Android devices they'll still seem overpriced. If the iPad Mini actually does go Retina this year, a lot of those devices will immediately seem outdated, since even the Nexus 7 and the new Kindles will be Full HD+.

The Surface 2 and the Nokia tablet will be considered overpriced and none of the others will get anywhere as much buzz/attention as a Nexus, Galaxy or Kindle.

 

[hwalker84]

The Asus Transformer seems like a pretty good deal for $329 with keyboard dock and Office Home and Student. With more and more people using tablets for college that's an amazing package.
The unnamed Dell for $399 with Full hD, pen, and travel keyboard could be great, too. Even has a replaceable battery.

However, few 8" devices and no one's actually trying to hit $199. Compared to a lot of Android devices they'll still seem overpriced. If the iPad Mini actually does go Retina this year, a lot of those devices will immediately seem outdated, since even the Nexus 7 and the new Kindles will be Full HD+.

The Surface 2 and the Nokia tablet will be considered overpriced and none of the others will get anywhere as much buzz/attention as a Nexus, Galaxy or Kindle.

Yes. Microsoft needs to make a 7-8inch at the same price as the Nexus 7. 10 inch Surface RT needs to be $350. I still don't understand why the battery life is getting worse in the next version and Atom tablets are getting terrific battery life. Should be getting 12-15hrs from RT to sell.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Can anyone help me out here.
Lately sometimes Windows is missing its special character or chinese characters. I mean like it could be that in the morning I can still see them, but then in the afternoon when I am using the pc, they look fucked up like this:

Anyone knows why? I have everything installed and I can see them some days, some days I cant see them and only see these brackets. I guess its some unicode-problem, but dont really know how to solve it.

 

[megarockexe]

Can anyone help me out here.
Lately sometimes Windows is missing its special character or chinese characters. I mean like it could be that in the morning I can still see them, but then in the afternoon when I am using the pc, they look fucked up like this:

Anyone knows why? I have everything installed and I can see them some days, some days I cant see them and only see these brackets. I guess its some unicode-problem, but dont really know how to solve it.

I use to have that issue, too. It seems placing one of the characters on your desktop in a filename somewhere fixes it. This worked back in Windows 7 and currently in 8 for me.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I dont have anything on my desktop.

The unicode is still fine in IRC, Steam or in a browser. Just fucks up in some programs.

 

[Suen]

So...how do I change the color of window frames? For example I'm using firefox now and the window frame which the tabs are created on have a purple-blue-ish color and I want to change that. I think it's the color I chose when I first booted Windows 8.

 

[MCD]

Xbox Music new snapping mode

:O

 

[SPDIF]

So...how do I change the color of window frames? For example I'm using firefox now and the window frame which the tabs are created on have a purple-blue-ish color and I want to change that. I think it's the color I chose when I first booted Windows 8.

Right click on the desktop --> Personalise.

 

[megarockexe]

I dont have anything on my desktop.

The unicode is still fine in IRC, Steam or in a browser. Just fucks up in some programs.

Uh, maybe something pinned on the taskbar? It's worth a shot, otherwise I don't know

 

[Steelyuhas]

Xbox Music new snapping mode

:O

Yeah Xbox Music is pretty damn good now.

 

[PG2G]

Well if it's not a solvable problem then it's a huge blow to Microsoft's ability to get app developers on board then. App developers are typically small and supporting multiple OSes is very hard for them to do and MS has no edge to tempt them into taking on the cost burden of writing/supporting/maintaing apps for a Windows Store that does not bring in much revenue..

If they can't tempt devs with the massive potential userbase they would get by being able to write one app and have it available everywhere there is a windows 8 then MS is going to have to hope that SOME hardware on BOTH the Phone and tablet space, separately, finally fires the public's imagination enough to start getting enough marketshare to force app developers to spend the money to support it.

I don't know if a Universal app is an unsolvable problem though. Android apps have to account for a pretty wide variety of sizes already and tablets/desktops/TVs are just a really large screen as far as an app would be concerned (snap view requirements would be just more sizes, and I think snapview is optional for devs to support right?). Hell iPhone apps work on iPad don't they? I'm not saying it's easy to support different sizes, I'm just saying that it's something that devs already need to do and will need to do even more as Apple starts experimenting with different sizes anyway.

It really isn't too bad for developer as is. You create a solution, Create a Windows 8 project that will contain front end code, create a Windows Phone 8 project that will contain front end code, and a Class Library that contains everything else.

Compile solution, submit apps to their respective stores. Things don't have to be a universal app for developers. In fact, universal apps are better for the end user than the developer since they can buy once and run anywhere

 

[brotkasten]

They are pretty much as unified as they are gonna get. Pretty much every piece of code you write for RT will work on WP (there are some libraries with different names but the methods are normally identical). I don't really see an option for them to unify the rest as things stand because unlike on iOS, there's a massive difference between UI on WP and UI on Windows 8, even the most basic control like a listbox would have to work completely differently to meet the guidelines.


I think they'll settle for a shared kernal and keep working on the cross compiling. Having a 'Universal' Windows app is a long way away.

I know you don't think much of me and this might come over as pretty asshole-ish, but have you used an iPhone and an iOS in the past years?

I don't use many apps on my iPad, but I can't think of any big universal iOS app that has the same or similar layout and controls on both devices. Not to mention that most big apps bring their own UI and ignore the iOS one.

But again, since I don't use many apps, my perception could be very wrong.,

 

[Ghost]

I know you don't think much of me and this might come over as pretty asshole-ish, but have you used an iPhone and an iOS in the past years?

I don't use many apps on my iPad, but I can't think of any big universal iOS app that has the same or similar layout and controls on both devices. Not to mention that most big apps bring their own UI and ignore the iOS one.

But again, since I don't use many apps, my perception could be very wrong.,

You're right the best apps are totally re-worked for iPad usually, I'd argue about different controls but I'd be splitting hairs, at the end of the day it's totally possible to ship a universal app that has different UI for iPad and iPhone because it's the same SDK. You could make that work with W8, WP8 as well I'm sure.

The difference is that when you release an iphone app, you know that if people download it on iPad and it will make just as much sense as it did on their phone because the functionality and design language are identical. They'll know how to interact with it, and even though it's scaled up and looks a bit crap it will visually fit with the rest of the platform.

On Windows 8 you have:
-2 missing hardware buttons
-A system designed to be used landscape

Both of which are solvable but make you start thinking "hmm is this really worth it" and then you have the UX guidelines for apps that specify among other things:

- Vertical scrolling is bad
- Top bar for app navigation with your custom icons
- Bottom bar for interactions with the page your looking at
- Right bar for application settings
etc etc

I don't see how any of those things could be inferred and transferred from your WP build so you're going to have an app that doesn't navigate or function the way Windows 8 users (have been taught to) expect. That's not just a rework of the front end, it's a complete rewrite.

Basically, MS broke metro with Windows 8, if they want to unify it's a much bigger job than just having 1 sdk.

 

[maeh2k]

If I were MS, I'd buy Xamarin and then give it to developers for free. With Xamarin you can program for iOS, Android, and Windows Phone at the same time using Microsoft's C# in Visual Studio. Seems great for cross-platform development. If developers accepted that method, Microsoft could get better app support on their platform and they might bring back some developers to Microsoft platforms and programming languages.

 

[Azih]

I see what you're saying Ghost and it's really too bad. It seems like hardware subsidies from MS until the platform gets enough users to be compelling or required for app developers to support is the only thing they can do then.

 

[Ghost]

If I were MS, I'd buy Xamarin and then give it to developers for free. With Xamarin you can program for iOS, Android, and Windows Phone at the same time using Microsoft's C# in Visual Studio. Seems great for cross-platform development. If developers accepted that method, Microsoft could get better app support on their platform and they might bring back some developers to Microsoft platforms and programming languages.

Yeah or make their own thing and price it more competitively, for what it's worth I actually think MS have the best tools for mobile development on phone and tablet, if they threw in a cross compiler and an interface designer for Android and iOS (and maybe some kind of cloud based deployment system for iOS deployment without an OSX environment) I'd probably use it myself.

 

[partridge]

Can anyone help me out here.
Lately sometimes Windows is missing its special character or chinese characters. I mean like it could be that in the morning I can still see them, but then in the afternoon when I am using the pc, they look fucked up like this:

Anyone knows why? I have everything installed and I can see them some days, some days I cant see them and only see these brackets. I guess its some unicode-problem, but dont really know how to solve it.

Do you have Google Chrome installed? If you open up Chrome immediately after you turn on the computer, it messes up Windows' capability to display Unicode characters. It's been a known issue of Google Chrome for a while now:

http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=42984
http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=102449

 

[MCD]

I apologise if this is a stupid question but once 8.1 is officially released in October; will Microsoft produce a new slipstreamed ISO with the SP and updates included? Or a tool to allow us to do the same? I'll be ready for a full format by then and it'd be nice to not have to install all the updates + 8.1 after the fact.

I'm hoping we see a retail boxed copies of 8.1 but yeah, there was a way to slipstream SP updates to Windows 7 (I remember seeing a guide in Paul Thurrot's website) and I'm positive you can find clean ISOs somewhere like MSDN leaks.

 

[SPDIF]

I apologise if this is a stupid question but once 8.1 is officially released in October; will Microsoft produce a new slipstreamed ISO with the SP and updates included? Or a tool to allow us to do the same? I'll be ready for a full format by then and it'd be nice to not have to install all the updates + 8.1 after the fact.

Something like this may interest you.

 

[neoism]

ok i hope someone is kind enough to help I know this isnt a windows 7 thread i my still make a thread but here goes

my computer just stoped working right last week ive tryied everything i can think of and nothing works just now i used cmd to make a rebuildbcd and i was able to get windows booted up regularly i have a win7 sp1 iso boot from a usb and started it up to do and upgrade so i can keep my files over 100 gbs of music and other files.... problem is my computer was neeever able to install sp1 i tried like 20 over the past year or so so the iso is sp1 but my machine is not i clicked on upgrade and after and update or so it said my machine needs sp1 to complete the reistal of windows.... can you even download the iso of win7 without the sp1 in the download ??why wont it just install it will the boot usb???
sorry for the typing on my phone and i suck at it

 

[SPDIF]

ok i hope someone is kind enough to help I know this isnt a windows 7 thread i my still make a thread but here goes

my computer just stoped working right last week ive tryied everything i can think of and nothing works just now i used cmd to make a rebuildbcd and i was able to get windows booted up regularly i have a win7 sp1 iso boot from a usb and started it up to do and upgrade so i can keep my files over 100 gbs of music and other files.... problem is my computer was neeever able to install sp1 i tried like 20 over the past year or so so the iso is sp1 but my machine is not i clicked on upgrade and after and update or so it said my machine needs sp1 to complete the reistal of windows.... can you even download the iso of win7 without the sp1 in the download ??why wont it just install it will the boot usb???
sorry for the typing on my phone and i suck at it

Yes, you'll find ISOs of Windows 7 RTM here

But once you've downloaded the ISO, if I were you, I wouldn't bother doing just an upgrade. I'd completely format the HDD and do a clean installation. Do you have an external HDD? Just copy the files you want to keep onto the external HDD, stick the newly downloaded ISO on a bootable USB and then just format, clean install and copy your files back over.

 

[neoism]

Yes, you'll find ISOs of Windows 7 RTM here

But once you've downloaded the ISO, if I were you, I wouldn't bother doing just an upgrade. I'd completely format the HDD and do a clean installation. Do you have an external HDD? Just copy the files you want to keep onto the external HDD, stick the newly downloaded ISO on a bootable USB and then just format, clean install and copy your files back over.

thank you yeah if all goes well i will do that i have a 160 gb external lol but windows is soooo damn slow right now plus explorer.exe freezes all the time so but it will take so long to reinstall all my drivers and games:*( it definitely needs it though

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

Great overview of the upcoming devices. The fact that no OEM put a proper HD display into their 8" devices is highly disappointing. They fucking blew it. Dell might get my money, if the mentioned pen is a Wacom one (seems unlikely at that price).

e: Did some research and got contradicting reports. Some sites mention a 1080p display, others 1280x800.

I've noticed that all of the announced BayTrail tablets have low resolution screens while the ARM tablets are rumored to have 1080p. (Surface 2, Nokia Sirius)

Could this have something to do with the new ARM processors (Tegra 4, Snapdragon 800) having better GPU performance than Bay Trail?

Or is this just a case of PC OEMs squeezing margins out of the low end market?

 

[PG2G]

Think its more of an 8 inch vs. 10 inch thing.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

I've noticed that all of the announced BayTrail tablets have low resolution screens while the ARM tablets are rumored to have 1080p. (Surface 2, Nokia Sirius)

Could this have something to do with the new ARM processors (Tegra 4, Snapdragon 800) having better GPU performance than Bay Trail?

It's probably because ARM got the design win in the short term. Baytrail can do 2560x1440 I believe on the mini tablets. So they should have plenty of 1080p tablets shortly.