The Abominable Snowman
Member
Redefining reactionary. Congrats.
Windows 8's uptake falls behind Vista's pace
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Redefining reactionary. Congrats.
CharlieDigital
Banned
It's more that I disagree with the idea that Windows 8 is significantly faster than 7 rather than I disagree that Windows 7 is slow. On the same hardware, with a clean install, it will have an advantage at boot, but in normal use, it is not likely to be any faster than 7 to a degree where it will be perceptible (say > 5-7ms) in regular activities like opening a browser, opening a new tab, opening Word. These actions are more bound by the performance of the hardware (thus the point about the SSD) rather than the OS.
No it wont. Because tablets and laptops are different. They serve different purposes and have different inputs.
Having the crap under the hood the same would be fine. But instead they half assed their 'touch' stuff and then mangled that into windows 7. That is all windows 8 is, windows 7 + mangled touch shit thrown in. And in doing so, making both worse off for it.
Windows 8 boots abit faster. That is it speed wise, the rest is negligable.
megarockexe
Member
It's not like you can't click or scroll on the new start screen now. But no, the icons are too big and might accidentally be too useful. I can't use my mouse on this.
There was this video of a guy ranting on how he couldn't stop the weather app from opening? Well if people are this slow to learn, it's no wonder the uptake is slow. The "pollinating" theory works the other way around. Get people on the mobile devices to make desktop more enticing since it's falling out of favor for the masses, or so the trends predict, I think.
Wut?
An iPad Mini as a main computer for years? That's insane. It's a brilliant device but no main computer replacement.
And windows 8 is amazing. I hated it during the beta but I love it now. Best OS out there. It's not perfect and the store is a load of crap but man it's fast and powerful.
As said, it is essentially as fast as windows 7. And its no more 'powerful' whatever that means...
Regardless of what they make, it will never drastically grow. Wouldn't you say that a large majority of people only change OS when they purchase a new system? They stick with whatever is on that system they just bought. Yes, new computers/laptops that are non-apple will now come with 8, but if 8 wasn't there, it would just come with 7...
Ah, ok.
I would start by creating an actual hybrid OS, not two different OS with different ideas put together into one product.
Integrate tablet applications and desktop applications into the same environment and allow both applications to have access to all the same features(such use of the live tiles).
Have the only difference between tablet and desktop modes be the user interface and software filters (fullscreen/"desktop", tablet/desktop/both, size of live tiles), and allow the UI to vary between desktop/tablet mode automatically depending on input methods connected to the machines, plus make this fully customizable by users.
Keep the platform open for both tablet and desktop applications rather than just desktop applications.
An hybrid product isn't a bad idea, I quite like it, it's the execution that's the issue. Instead of bulding upon the philosophies of Windows to create a fully integrated hybrid solution they decided to try and go after iOS philosophy and then shoved it on top of the desktop OS.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Yes, they needed to grow their markets.
But they made a critical mistake in approaching a tablet OS from the desktop OS as opposed to taking the pretty solid Windows Phone mobile OS and scaling it up to support tablets.
It would have been cheaper and likely yielded better devices because:
- You would have no user experiences that drop the user back to desktop mode on a tablet
- You would have better battery life because your OS is built on top of code/platform/hardware that is optimized for low-power devices
- You would have been able to spend more time and budget improving the software and experience instead of building new features
- Microsoft would not have had to forked the development teams and products into a consumer confusing Windows RT and Windows 8
A tablet built on Windows Phone 8 would have yielded a better product iteration.
I know, but they aren't going to grow by making convergence devices that few people want. Microsoft still doesn't seem to understand why the iPad was so popular. Microsoft's own ads seem to be pushing to a laptop rather than a tablet. Yeah sure there are people that want a hybrid device, but those aren't the people buying bunches of iPads, Kindles, and Nexuses.
As a main HOME computer? An iPad works perfectly well.
Win 8 is a complete abortion, and I don't have the inclination to fight with that gross UI at home. I just need shit to work. Thanks, Apple!
I can't tell if this is a joke or not, which probably means it isn't.
How does that sentiment make any sense? Windows 8 is too touch-interface oriented so you're ditching it in favour of a touch-oriented tablet with even less capable productivity?
Bornstellar
Member
Bornstellar
Member
I'm almost positive you have not spent a significant amount of time using Windows 8. What do you hope to add to this discussion exactly?
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Tag-fishing.
the future of the PC market (Desktops, Laptops, Tablets) is not a market where Microsoft will have 90% share. It will most likely be split more evenly between apple, google and Microsoft. With the growing market of touch devices Microsoft had to do something because their traditional operating system is not built with touch in mind (it works, but not that well). Touchscreeens are going to be getting cheaper and cheaper and will become a standard input device on PCs like Keyboards and Mice are today. If Microsoft just sat around and put out Windows 7.1 they could just kiss their OS days goodbye. The future of the PC market has Touch as one of its major input types. (as well as voice probably down the road).
All of that is true only in your own mind... We've tablets, notebooks, hybrids, ultrabooks with touchscreen and all manner of diverse equipment being released. The market has yet to choose a winning form factor.
Yeah, other than startup/shutdown (and the wake from sleep time there is really questionable), it is a bit faster than 7.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
it has a desktop and you can keep that pretty damn clean.
been using W8 for a few days now. so far, the most important thing that I needed to work for: games, has not been kind with GFWL and Batman Arkham City. damn did that take a while to fix for such a simple issue. here is hoping the others work.
michaelius
Banned
I'm running win 8 on my new laptop and it's been very pleasant experience so far.
But i'm getting all my windows licenses for free from microsoft as IT student - if i had to spend money to upgrade my win 7 to win 8 i'd ignore it since 7 was fine.
But i'm getting all my windows licenses for free from microsoft as IT student - if i had to spend money to upgrade my win 7 to win 8 i'd ignore it since 7 was fine.
You do realise the people who haven't actually used the os, but try to post as if they are experts are very easy to spot and usually look a bit daft?
the only difference in the two form factors is one has a keyboard and one does not. Laptops are already coming out with touchscreens and that will only get cheaper to implement. Touch is going to be everywhere soon. Your future tablet purchase will have the option to buy a attachable keyboard to make it into a more traditional laptop. Just like the Phone market, there will be tablets with keyboards (laptops) and tablets without them.
ehh these threads are getting tired. Too many people already have windows 7 and don't feel the need to upgrade. I'm using windows 8 as my main work pc and it's fantastic. The issues that these tech blogs raise are just stupid and non-existent when you choose not to use metro apps. The 10 people I know that recently got windows 8 love it to bits and consistently tell me how fast their machine feels despite being a core2duo with 2gb of ram.
When people realize the desktop isn't an afterthought, they'll realize how wrong they were.
I don't use ANY metro apps whatsoever, only use it for search and it's more than adequate. Don't like it? use the other methods inside the desktop - it REALLY isn't that hard people.
Regardless, the hive-mind has made up it's mind so that must mean 8 is shit. Pardon me while I roll my eyes.
When people realize the desktop isn't an afterthought, they'll realize how wrong they were.
I don't use ANY metro apps whatsoever, only use it for search and it's more than adequate. Don't like it? use the other methods inside the desktop - it REALLY isn't that hard people.
Regardless, the hive-mind has made up it's mind so that must mean 8 is shit. Pardon me while I roll my eyes.
ReadingRambo
Member
I really can't justify upgrading to windows 8 knowing full well I'd do everything possible to make it feel like 7.
Windows 7 on an SSD works for me.
Windows 7 on an SSD works for me.
I really think Metro looks kick ass. I have tried windows 8 a couple of times and I think the whole Metro UI works alright but not really practical. I did see a Windows 8 tablet today though and man it looks great! It's definitely designed for tablets and it shows. If I ever wanted to pick up a tablet it will most likely be a W8 tablet.
ReadingRambo
Member
While I understand the reasoning from a developer point of view, doing things that people aren't asking for because "our data shows x,y, and z" doesn't work so great. I know this is OT side but look at all the changes Blizzard has made to their franchises using this exact train of thought. It isn't going well.
i must have missed some kind of life changing event that took place with the classic start menu. I really see no need for it. I stopped using it as a traditional menu after vista implemented search and even more so after the new taskbar in 7. Pin most used applications to taskbar, search for the others.
This is true, however Windows 8 is also great. And I never thought I'd say that - I hated it on paper! It's just a faster 7 with a snazzy looking start menu basically. I absolutely fly through it now. Sadly it seems to be 'cool' to jump on the hate bandwagon, like alot of things on the internet.
I finally got some time with 8 as I had to help someone fix a new computer they were having issues with. It was only a couple hours though so I need more time, but I noticed a few things.
1. There seemed to be no indication that Windows Update was needing a system restart on the desktop.
2. Things like Computer/Explorer, Control Panel, Network and Sharing Center seem needlessly hidden or require a little more time to access, particularly if the Metro whatever has been preloaded with a lot of bloat ware. I'd imagine you could pin these items to the task bar for quicker access, but I didn't get to test that.
3. There seems to be some issue with programs correctly identifying between the Metro 'app' environment and the normal OS. This person had tried to load Chrome but it would not start. Reading around a bit seemed to point in this direction, but she decided to just use Firefox and didn't want me to spend much time on it so I didn't get to research further.
4. It was probably because I hadn't had much time with it, but I found I started to become really dependent on the search function in the Charm bar thing to navigate around. Not sure I really liked that.
I really like 7, so I just haven't made it a priority to upgrade yet but I will. Still, even for someone who is experienced with Windows such as myself there was definitely a bit of a learning curve. For someone who is just a casual user I can see how the experience may be a pretty negative one.
1. There seemed to be no indication that Windows Update was needing a system restart on the desktop.
2. Things like Computer/Explorer, Control Panel, Network and Sharing Center seem needlessly hidden or require a little more time to access, particularly if the Metro whatever has been preloaded with a lot of bloat ware. I'd imagine you could pin these items to the task bar for quicker access, but I didn't get to test that.
3. There seems to be some issue with programs correctly identifying between the Metro 'app' environment and the normal OS. This person had tried to load Chrome but it would not start. Reading around a bit seemed to point in this direction, but she decided to just use Firefox and didn't want me to spend much time on it so I didn't get to research further.
4. It was probably because I hadn't had much time with it, but I found I started to become really dependent on the search function in the Charm bar thing to navigate around. Not sure I really liked that.
I really like 7, so I just haven't made it a priority to upgrade yet but I will. Still, even for someone who is experienced with Windows such as myself there was definitely a bit of a learning curve. For someone who is just a casual user I can see how the experience may be a pretty negative one.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Fantastic news.
Let's hope 8 crashes and burns and gets Ballmer fired.
Forcing a user interface designed for touch devices on desktops just because they can't compete with Apple on the phone/tablet arena was a dick move and can't wait until they recant it.
Let's hope 8 crashes and burns and gets Ballmer fired.
Forcing a user interface designed for touch devices on desktops just because they can't compete with Apple on the phone/tablet arena was a dick move and can't wait until they recant it.
shutdown is the same number as clicks as before, just on the right side of the screen not the left. Alt-f4. ctrl-alt-delete and just hitting the power button all work exactly the same.
In my opinion, Metro has no place being on a desktop, and the Windows desktop has no place being on a tablet. Combining the two (and forcing it on the desktop crowd) for the tablet / laptop hybrid seems like a bad idea.
Edit: I have Windows 8 and I don't mind the Start Screen, but full screen Metro apps are just dumb, and snapping isn't the answer.
Edit: I have Windows 8 and I don't mind the Start Screen, but full screen Metro apps are just dumb, and snapping isn't the answer.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
Windows 8 and Office 2013 are some of the worst user experiences I've ever dealt with.
ReadingRambo
Member
I'll come clean and say I've never used Windows 8. I will also say that I have literally no desire to learn an entirely new UI for the sake of a few conveniences. It just isn't appealing to me and I'd hazard a guess that I am not alone in that.
alt+f4 in desktop.
hit power button.
hit sleep button on your keyboard or other million different ways to shut down windows without going to the charm bar.
do you really have to shut down through start menu?
I ask because I've seen this to be issue for quite a few others and it's a bit strange to me. bringing up the charm bar is really easy, I used to see a lot of people auto hide their task bars before, this is exactly same thing.
you can use Win+I to go straight to the settings too and hit power off, new win8 branded keyboards have charm keys too!.
That's okay because there are no conveniences with the new UI. Everything is either almost the same or slower. There isn't a single benefit to the new UI unless you have a touchscreen.
What's the problem with Office 2013?
The market is just heading in the hybrid direction. Even today most people use tablets rather than desktops. In four years time a lot if not a majority of new devices are going to be hybrids.
Jzero
Member
Office 2013 is actually pretty awesome, it's fast and light.
I've been using Windows 8 for over a month, and I am actually satisfied. Metro apps are pretty useless, but overall it's a snappier version of 7. The start screen is not a big deal, I prefer it to the start button, although this is just about personal preferences.
...Yeah.
I'm not sure about this because right now there is nothing on win update for me to try, but I remember there was a notification on settings menu and the same annoying message to postpone the restart etc Win7 has was present still when I was updating. don't think it's any different.
Network and Sharing center is exactly like Win7, just right click on the network. when you click the network icon instead of the old menu, a menu in new style comes in the left side of screen full screen which I don't like either but has same amount of into, it's just larger. I guess it was necessary to have it work between both UIs.
Control Panel is in the settings menu which I wish we could customize to add more to it. it's not hard to access imo but looks like people have problem with concept of settings menu, it takes getting used to I guess. You don't need to go into Start Screen to access control panel, it being bloated or not it's nothing to do with CP access. You can actually add all the admin tool to start screen by just a check box in settings.
Yeah, you can pin whatever you want too.
I don't think I understand the issues. you wanted Chrome in metro? I think you have to set it as default browser. Firefox doesn't have metro UI yet, it's in development.
I think a lot of users use quick search in start menu to find what they want, it works like that here too, it's just full screen now which might break work flow for some, that's a valid point imo. Otherwise if you didn't use search before accessing everything is same as before really, you relied on shortcuts then?
win8 desktop is hardly different than 7 really with added ribbon UI which I quite like.
For new UI and learning curve, casual users should look for hardware that supports win8 features with touch screen or track-pads with gesture support it's really easy for the most casual user imo which this new start screen is designed for, otherwise there is no point in upgrading for those if you can't use the new features.
yes it's a bit faster, noticeable on older hardware specially, but people buy windows with new PC mostly not to install on ancient ones.
Regardless if people are now using tablets for basic computer needs (browsing, email, facebook ect). They will still make money with every new premade computer even though it isn't as much. A bit of doomsaying in this thread, but they really need to add extra incentive for people to upgrade.
They took a step backwards on the desktop experience so they could ultimately gain little to no traction in mobile OS market share. iOS and Android device activation were monstrous over the holiday. Better luck (and hopefully a better focus) on W9, I suppose.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Just bought parts for a New PC and plan to just reinstall Windows 7. No interest in 8 at this time.
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