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Windows 8's uptake falls behind Vista's pace
- Thread starter Canis lupus
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Liu Kang Baking A Pie
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Smart people are not scared of change. They dislike bad or unnecessary change.What ultimately is the culprint for the low sales is us tech users.
Most of the complains came from "tech savy" users which couldn't handle change. If they would actually use Win8 properly then they would have seen that there is a lot of improvements all over. It's like watching a bad soap opera. Win8 in itself is a great product. I find the whole mess the tech community have created to be quite funny actually. Win9 will come with minimal changes and they will love it.
This thread is mostly legitimate criticism countered with hilarious aggression and dismissive assumptions. Your response is like the new "you're holding it wrong."
My parents are middle aged lol. They know what a tablet is, they successfully bought me a great iPad.
The ad is terrible. How do I use the Surface? Does it make me dance? Oh look, it lets me look at pictures, so does every single other handheld device on the planet including a DS.
What features does the Surface show from that commercial that make people want to go and buy one? Better yet, that let people even know what it is.
Here, have a Nook commercial
Note the focus on reading. At the end it shows the device, with branding next to it, no mistaking the commercial is for the device. No flashy distractions, a clear focus on what the product is, and what it's good at (in this case, reading eBooks).
Here's a Kindle commercial. I'd say this commercial isn't very strong either. It's sure attention getting though, and it does stuff better than the surface commercial, but it's still not great. However, note again, like the Nook commercial, the end with the branding, the device and what it does. So make an attention getting ad that has a payoff at the end.
The surface ad doesn't do this. White text on a solid background with a generic word on it doesn't tell anybody anything. Show the device. "Surface" "A tablet powered by Windows 8" Let the user at least know what you're selling. Having people dance around with colors everywhere with absolutely no indication what part of the commercial is being sold is just bad. There's no branding, no focus on selling the product. The commercial needs to be about what the device does and why the customer needs it. The surface commercial doesn't do any of that AND it leaves the user confused on what a surface even is.
Whilst I'm not in marketing and don't have access to the marketing data as I'm sure you don't either, I would imagine that MS changing their entire billion dollar marketing campaign on the basis that your mom and pop thought it had something to do with an iPad would be a fairly fruitless thing to do.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Whilst I'm not in marketing and don't have access to the marketing data as I'm sure you don't either, I would imagine that MS changing their entire billion dollar marketing campaign on the basis that your mom and pop thought it had something to do with an iPad would be a fairly fruitless thing to do.
so tell me how it's an effective ad that sells the product and increases brand awareness
I blame OEMs. They said they would have a certain number of Win8 devices, in lots of form factors, available for launch. They didn't. Microsoft has staggered the launch of the "MS Surface with Win8 Pro" and even narrowed the current "MS Surface with WinRT" to only their own stores/website at first, before slightly widening it to include Best Buy and Staples. If there were lots more devices in lots of different form factors then people would be more able to find something that suits their needs. MS seem to be taking a hit to salvage their OEM relationships, even though it is the OEMs that have eroded consumer trust in MS/Windows, by loading their laptops down with demos, trials, shovel-ware etc.
What ultimately is the culprint for the low sales is us tech users.
Most of the complains came from "tech savy" users which couldn't handle change. If they would actually use Win8 properly then they would have seen that there is a lot of improvements all over. It's like watching a bad soap opera. Win8 in itself is a great product. I find the whole mess the tech community have created to be quite funny actually. Win9 will come with minimal changes and they will love it.
You know the wells gone dry when you start blaming the user. At this point, I don't really think there is anywhere else for the discussion to go. We have literally hit the wall at the outer reaches of sanity.
Uno Venova
Banned
Has anyone blamed Obama for this yet.
You know the wells gone dry when you start blaming the user. At this point, I don't really think there is anywhere else for the discussion to go. We have literally hit the wall at the outer reaches of sanity.
Yeah Yeah, your opinion is obviously the correct one, seeing as you typed it...
What ultimately is the culprint for the low sales is us tech users.
Most of the complains came from "tech savy" users which couldn't handle change. If they would actually use Win8 properly then they would have seen that there is a lot of improvements all over. It's like watching a bad soap opera. Win8 in itself is a great product. I find the whole mess the tech community have created to be quite funny actually. Win9 will come with minimal changes and they will love it.
And yet most tech savvy users had no problem with the change from Office 2003 to 2007. Bad ideas are bad ideas and Windows 8 is chock full of them.
And yet most tech savvy users had no problem with the change from Office 2003 to 2007. Bad ideas are bad ideas and Windows 8 is chock full of them.
To be fair 2007 took some getting used to, I disliked it at first...
I like it now.
so tell me how it's an effective ad that sells the product and increases brand awareness
You want me to critique an entire ad campaign on the basis that your mom and pop didn't understand it?
Want do you want me to say?
balladofwindfishes
Member
You want me to critique an entire ad campaign on the basis that your mom and pop didn't understand it?
Want do you want me to say?
I want your critique on why you think the ad is effective. Why do you think I'm wrong in my critique.
Also here's someone else who had the exact same reaction as my parents
CharlieDigital
Banned
You want me to critique an entire ad campaign on the basis that your mom and pop didn't understand it?
Want do you want me to say?
There is no substance to their message.
Look at Apple's ads for the iPad or i-Anything.
"Hey, look at how simple this is!"
"Look at how you can do all the things you want to do easily!"
Their recent ads for the iPad mini are brilliant in its simplicity: just two tablets side by side with people video chatting, playing games, playing apps, etc. They've effectively communicated "Hey, it's the same thing, only smaller" (whether this is true or not) and "It's so easy, even your grandmother can use it" and "Look, you can stay in touch and communicate so easily with your loved ones!".
This is what consumers want. Whether iOS is actually easier or not is another debate, but great advertising creates the perception that iOS is indeed the easiest to use. Consumers can connect with this advertising because it is simple, straightforward, and effective in communicating a brand image and embodied that brand image: "It's so simple, we don't need gimmicks to sell it."
What has the Microsoft campaign given us? What is the message? What is the key selling point of the Surface according to these ads? How is Microsoft capturing the market? A bunch of folks dancing around clicking a tablet into a keyboard dock. Is this ad selling me the dock? Is this an accessory? Why do I want to buy this hardware? Does it come with great software? A consumer can't tell based on that ad. Microsoft has literally given consumers the song and dance -- a gimmick, if you will.
This would not be the first time that Microsoft has failed miserably in designing a marketing campaign lest we forget the abomination of those Seinfeld commercials. They had a pretty good stint with Windows Phone, the "I'm a PC" campaign, and the a few clever bing commercials as well. Their tablet marketing campaign has been lackluster and has failed to differentiate themselves from the competitors. They have not demonstrated a reason to choose a Microsoft tablet over an iPad or Android tablet when they could have easily done so with an effective campaign around the software.
I said it earlier in this thread, I'm not sure why there are Microsoft defenders when clearly, the Win8 release has been a clusterfuck on nearly every possible level from the software architecture to the hardware to the marketing. "Yeah, but it's perfectly fine if you do this and that" is not a good defense because the operating system should be usable right out of the box.
so tell me how it's an effective ad that sells the product and increases brand awareness
I can't tell you how it is, but I can tell you that it is: Surface TV spot named the most effective tablet ad of the year
Besides the campaign isn't just one ad. There are a couple with more details. Second ad: http://youtu.be/wJwbVpFn95g
To be fair 2007 took some getting used to, I disliked it at first...
I like it now.
Yeah but at least you could see the reasoning behind the changes (to get away from the millions of toolbars and dropdown menus).
I've been using Windows 8 from CP to release and I still can't see a single reason for Metro to exist on my desktop PC. Why in the world would I EVER want to open MP3 or JPEG files in full screen if I'm opening it from desktop mode? Yes, you can change it but why was this even the default action in the first place? Stuff like this just makes no sense.
I want your critique on why you think the ad is effective. Why do you think I'm wrong in my critique.
Because neither of us have any experience or knowledge of whether it is or not apart from your mom and pop....
The last thing this thread needs is more people trying to pass comment on a subject that they know nothing about.
Anyway ad campaigns can be changed if need be, same as the few relatively minor issues Windows 8 has.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I can't tell you how it is, but I can tell you that it is: Surface TV spot named the most effective tablet ad of the year
Besides the campaign isn't just one ad. There are a couple with more details. Second ad: http://youtu.be/wJwbVpFn95g
I don't know where your link got its info, because I went right to Ace Metric and they have a much different top to the list
http://www.acemetrix.com/spotlights/top-ads/most-effective-tablet-ads-of-2012-to-date-2/
They have Samsung at the top
Yeah but at least you could see the reasoning behind the changes (to get away from the millions of toolbars and dropdown menus).
I've been using Windows 8 from CP to release and I still can't see a single reason for Metro to exist on my desktop PC. Why in the world would I EVER want to open MP3 or JPEG files in full screen if I'm opening it from desktop mode? Yes, you can change it but why was this even the default action in the first place? Stuff like this just makes no sense.
You'll never hear me complaining about having more choice, but each to their own.
I chose the old way of doing it by the way.
Some people really are grasping at straws here, the uptake is slower. In general it is a lack luster showing compared to the last two OS releases. You can try to blame it on users and OEMs, but the fact is Microsoft is the one with control over the OS, the OS licensing terms(hence the OEMs) and the marketing. The best Win8 ads I've seen have been HPs. The blame for it should all go on Sinofsky and Ballmer.
That you can dance around clicking the keyboard on and off. I wouldn't be surprised if some people in this very thread have reenacted some of the scenes in their home.
The PDF viewer... god how can a company as big as MS ship that piece of shit and think it was OK.
What has the Microsoft campaign given us? What is the message? What is the key selling point of the Surface according to these ads? How is Microsoft capturing the market?
That you can dance around clicking the keyboard on and off. I wouldn't be surprised if some people in this very thread have reenacted some of the scenes in their home.
Why in the world would I EVER want to open MP3 or JPEG files in full screen if I'm opening it from desktop mode? Yes, you can change it but why was this even the default action in the first place? Stuff like this just makes no sense.
The PDF viewer... god how can a company as big as MS ship that piece of shit and think it was OK.
You'll never hear me complaining about having more choice, but each to their own.
I chose the old way of doing it by the way.
The biggest crime W8 has committed is taking away some UI features (instead of offering both old and new features. By taking away the features, MS basically has showed that nothing is sacred. There is no gaurantee MS won't take away more UI feature you will get used to in W8.
In that's the case why spend time to learn the new feature. It may not be around in the next version of Windows anyway. May as well stick with the old and familiar way.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Because neither of us have any experience or knowledge of whether it is or not apart from your mom and pop....
The last thing this thread needs is more people trying to pass comment on a subject that they know nothing about.
Anyway ad campaigns can be changed if need be, same as the few relatively minor issues Windows 8 has.
how do you know this? How do you know I don't work for the company that made the ad? How do you know I've won multiple awards for my ads?
I haven't
You don't know this? Why assume this? Why assume anything and then base your entire counter point on it. "Well you don't know, you're not in advertising"
I am, but not TV ads
Well, what if I was. What's your counter argument then? Gonna keep grasping at trivial nonsense or you going to tell me why you think the ad sells the product.
So what would you change about the ad to make it better. What faults do you find in it? I'm not about to let you get away with "you don't know, so don't argue" as a counter point, because it's not one
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Your situation is very unique, because most people do not use 50-90 programs on a daily basis, or even weekly, monthly, yearly.
I find it funny that you are arguing about having to do extra clicks to launch 50-90 programs, yet your ilk seem to have no issues with having to right click in order to switch tabs and crap.
Actually, you're completely wrong. This is where Microsoft has metrics of MILLIONS of user's data to back up their design decisions.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/reflecting-on-your-comments-on-the-start-screen.aspx
"In the Start menu today, when you expand the All Programs flyout, by default you can see a total of 20 apps without scrolling, regardless of how big your monitor is. In one of our studies, we found users launched an average of 57 different apps over the course of several months. "
how do you know this? How do you know I don't work for the company that made the ad? How do you know I've won multiple awards for my ads?I haven't
You don't know this? Why assume this? Why assume anything and then base your entire counter point on it. "Well you don't know, you're not in advertising"I am, but not TV ads
Well, what if I was. What's your counter argument then? Gonna keep grasping at trivial nonsense or you going to tell me why you think the ad sells the product.
So what would you change about the ad to make it better. What faults do you find in it? I'm not about to let you get away with "you don't know, so don't argue" as a counter point, because it's not one
Microsoft's ad works because the same ads worked for Pringles back in the 90's.
How can you argue that?
how do you know this? How do you know I don't work for the company that made the ad? How do you know I've won multiple awards for my ads?I haven't
You don't know this? Why assume this? Why assume anything and then base your entire counter point on it. "Well you don't know, you're not in advertising"I am, but not TV ads
Well, what if I was. What's your counter argument then? Gonna keep grasping at trivial nonsense or you going to tell me why you think the ad sells the product.
So what would you change about the ad to make it better. What faults do you find in it? I'm not about to let you get away with "you don't know, so don't argue" as a counter point, because it's not one
You work for a multi million dollar marketing agency and your first point was your mom and pop didn't get it?
I'm no Sherlock Holmes but I can be fairly confident in my presumptions I feel.
balladofwindfishes
Member
You work for a multi million dollar marketing agency and your first point was your mom and pop didn't get it?
I'm no Sherlock Holmes but I can be fairly confident in my presumptions I feel.
I don't, and said as much in my post. You're missing the larger picture, and not answering a simple question. You don't need a masters in marketing to give an opinion on an ad. I'm a programmer who makes banner ads in a 4 person company. My opinion is nor more valid than yours, but since you've offered no opinion, what am I left to believe about your position?
Metrics and focus groups can be easily misinterpreted. You can cut a handful of features that very few people use often and end up cutting one feature that a majority used commonly. Anybody that has worked in development for any period of time will learn this very quickly. Also, even if something isn't done often, doesn't mean it isn't important.
I don't think you should take anything from Sinofsky at face value, especially a hyper-defensive blog post.
I don't think you should take anything from Sinofsky at face value, especially a hyper-defensive blog post.
CharlieDigital
Banned
You don't need a masters in marketing to give an opinion on an ad.
You work for a multi million dollar marketing agency and your first point was your mom and pop didn't get it?
I'm no Sherlock Holmes but I can be fairly confident in my presumptions I feel.
I think any person with half a brain can easily see why the Surface TV ads have been a failure.
How Microsoft approved it is a big question to me.
The ads completely fail to communicate even what product is being sold. Is it the hardware? Is it the keyboard dock? Is it a new OS? What the fuck am I supposed to be buying?
3/4 of that ad is spend with folks clicking a tablet into a dock. Someone looking at that ad would have a hard time not thinking it was some accessory for an iPad.
Have a serious, objective look at that ad and think about that.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Actually, you're completely wrong. This is where Microsoft has metrics of MILLIONS of user's data to back up their design decisions.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/reflecting-on-your-comments-on-the-start-screen.aspx
"In the Start menu today, when you expand the All Programs flyout, by default you can see a total of 20 apps without scrolling, regardless of how big your monitor is. In one of our studies, we found users launched an average of 57 different apps over the course of several months. "
What users and which apps? Were those apps actually launched from the start menu, or when a file was opened like pdfs? Can you name 50 or even 40 apps that most people regularly launch through the start menu?
There was so much out cry for Metro and how it was killing the desktop. Yet the desktop was right there and even better than the one in Win7. No where did I say they were holding it wrong. I'm just saying many tech users cried for something that is an addition, and not a replacement.Smart people are not scared of change. They dislike bad or unnecessary change.
This thread is mostly legitimate criticism countered with hilarious aggression and dismissive assumptions. Your response is like the new "you're holding it wrong."
I don't know where your link got its info, because I went right to Ace Metric and they have a much different top to the list
http://www.acemetrix.com/spotlights/top-ads/most-effective-tablet-ads-of-2012-to-date-2/
They have Samsung at the top
Doesn't help that the list was compiled before the release of the Surface: http://www.acemetrix.com/news/press-releases/ace-metrix-reviews-the-top-tablet-ads-of-the-year-a-list-that-doesnt-include-ipad/
*The above list represents the highest scoring tablet ads for this 2012 through 9/17/12.
Though going by the numbers the Surface wouldn't be the most effective but only one of the most effective.
I don't, and said as much in my post. You're missing the larger picture, and not answering a simple question. You don't need a masters in marketing to give an opinion on an ad.
I haven't got an opinion on it, why should I try to pretend I know what I'm talking about when I don't?
My only thoughts on ads that catch my eye, but I'm not sure of the exact contents are that the better ones give me a good idea of what to Google for further info. Not many ads catch my eye, but I have Googled further information on the better made, deliberately vague ones in the past.
That's potential anecdotal bollocks though, and we already have plenty of that.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Because it is an addition, not a replacement. We are running essentially two completely different operating systems because Microsoft can't competently create just one that is good.There was so much out cry for Metro and how it was killing the desktop. Yet the desktop was right there and even better than the one in Win7. No where did I say they were holding it wrong. I'm just saying many tech users cried for something that is an addition, and not a replacement.
Also:
Yes you did:No where did I say they were holding it wrong.
If they would actually use Win8 properly...
Because it is an addition, not a replacement. We are running essentially two completely different operating systems because Microsoft can't competently create just one that is good.
Also:Yes you did:
It's comments like this make me doubt you've actually used it....
Did you spend most of your time in the old start menu or something?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
When you imply that this brand new operating system isn't much more than a replacement application launcher, it makes your heated defenses of it seem even sillier.It's comments like this make me doubt you've actually used it....
Did you spend most of your time in the old start menu or something?
Sorry that was a bad choice of word. What I meant was that they should have used it more than they didBecause it is an addition, not a replacement. We are running essentially two completely different operating systems because Microsoft can't competently create just one that is good.
Also:Yes you did:
Sure the Metro integration isn't as good as it should be. But it is a decent start. I have absolutely no problems using Win8 just as I did with Win7. And Metro I can use if I want.
When you imply that this brand new operating system isn't much more than a replacement application launcher, it makes your heated defenses of it seem even sillier.
It's just a faster Windows 7 with full screen Start menu and apps if you want them.
And yes, you have always been able to launch programs from Start.
Silly.
balladofwindfishes
Member
It's just a faster Windows 7 with full screen Start menu and apps if you want them.
so why should I buy it?
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
We bought my dad a new laptop for christmas. I HATE HATE HATE HATE Windows 8. Worst piece of garbage I've ever used. Every time I use it and it accidentally pushes me into metro it makes me rage.
You just don't get it man.
It mostly does that only if you don't have a default application for the file type. The only Metro you are forced into is the new start menu, but that isn't really the Metro interface at all.We bought my dad a new laptop for christmas. I HATE HATE HATE HATE Windows 8. Worst piece of garbage I've ever used. Every time I use it and it accidentally pushes me into metro it makes me rage.
I think any person with half a brain can easily see why the Surface TV ads have been a failure.
How Microsoft approved it is a big question to me.
The ads completely fail to communicate even what product is being sold. Is it the hardware? Is it the keyboard dock? Is it a new OS? What the fuck am I supposed to be buying?
3/4 of that ad is spend with folks clicking a tablet into a dock. Someone looking at that ad would have a hard time not thinking it was some accessory for an iPad.
Have a serious, objective look at that ad and think about that.
The Surface ads could have been the best ads ever.... Now all they need is to have stuff actually in the shops to sell. That's their biggest failure.
Doesn't help that the list was compiled before the release of the Surface: http://www.acemetrix.com/news/press-releases/ace-metrix-reviews-the-top-tablet-ads-of-the-year-a-list-that-doesnt-include-ipad/
Though going by the numbers the Surface wouldn't be the most effective but only one of the most effective.
I'd still like to know where these articles about the Surface ad being the "best" tablet ad are getting their info from. I can't find Microsoft or Surface anywhere on that Ace Metrix site, and besides, the list is for the "best" tablet ad (whatever the hell that means), it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the actual product, so it's availability is meaningless.
no one is saying you should ....so why should I buy it?
CharlieDigital
Banned
The Surface ads could have been the best ads ever.... Now all they need is to have stuff actually in the shops to sell. That's their biggest failure.
The whole thing is a failure.
The architectural decision to build a tablet OS from a desktop OS and not from a phone OS was a failure.
The decision to release a user experience that could still drop a tablet user into desktop mode in certain cases was a failure.
The terrible advertising that failed to differentiate their tablet from Apple or Android tablets was a failure as Microsoft has no brand cachet in this space in the first place. In fact, the probably have negative brand perception in this space due to many lackluster Windows tablets in the past much as they had to fight against their embattled history with Windows Mobile and Windows CE.
The limited hardware launch was a failure, but frankly, I highly doubt the demand is even there.
Win8 is DOA. Enterprises will skip it and wait for Win9 or Win8 SP1 which basically un-Metrofies it. Book it.
The Surface ads could have been the best ads ever.... Now all they need is to have stuff actually in the shops to sell. That's their biggest failure.
Um, it's readily available at almost every BestBuy in SoCal.
so why should I buy it?
I dunno, it's your money.
balladofwindfishes
Member
no one is saying you should ....
I dunno, it's your money.
that's a terrible way to sell a product
CharlieDigital
Banned
no one is saying you should ....
I dunno, it's your money.
You're both being quite pedantic about this discussion because you know that the real question is "Why is this better than an iOS device or an Android device? How has Microsoft succeeded in differentiating their product to the market?"
The whole thing is a failure.
The architectural decision to build a tablet OS from a desktop OS and not from a phone OS was a failure.
The decision to release a user experience that could still drop a tablet user into desktop mode in certain cases was a failure.
The terrible advertising that failed to differentiate their tablet from Apple or Android tablets was a failure as Microsoft has no brand cachet in this space in the first place.
The limited hardware launch was a failure, but frankly, I highly doubt the demand is even there.
Win8 is DOA. Enterprises will skip it and wait for Win9 or Win8 SP1 which basically un-Metrofies it. Book it.
The only time I've ever been forced to use the desktop on my Surface was when changing DNS addresses, and even that was painless. I was certainly never dropped into the desktop unexpectedly.
The next version of Windows is codenamed Blue, will release around halfway through next year, and will bring further integration of the desktop and Metro.
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