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[Windows Central] Don't buy a PlayStation — Save money on the PC versions of Marvel's Spider-Man, Horizon Zero Dawn, and others instead
Dirk Benedict
Member
That shit even had ME legit shook.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I'm not sure how vague they've been.
Their releases have largely made sense to me. You look at the best-selling PS4 games and Sony's major franchises and they've largely all received PC ports.
Spider-Man - Check
God of War - Check
Uncharted 4 - Check
Horizon Zero Dawn - Check
The Last of Us - Check
The Last of Us 2 is being remastered and will certainly receive a PC port. So maybe the question is why is TLOU2 getting a remaster and Spider-Man, God of War, Uncharted, and Horizon didn't? I think that's because TLOU is simply a franchise Sony is trying to elevate significantly with their transmedia plans. TLOU was the biggest show in the world. They don't have any other franchise that they have control over that is going to deliver results like this. It makes sense to introduce TLOU2 to PC in a state where they can sell it for more money.
They ported Day's Gone when they were testing out the waters.
We've yet to see Ghost of Tsushima, but they're making a movie out of it. It's likely we'll see the PC Port around the movie's release.
It wouldn't make sense to port GT Sport.
Detroit Become Human was ported by another company. Same with Death Stranding.
Infamous would be a questionable one. Do you just randomly port the 3rd game in a franchise similar to Uncharted? There were reasons why Uncharted 4 made the most sense because it would be a lot of work remaking Uncharted 1. The same is true of Infamous, but here there is no movie or tv show and the game didn't sell incredibly well.
So I think the strategy has been really clear, to bring over the PS4 games first and foremost and when it comes to PS5 games give it largely a year or two depending on the importance of the game. A bit more complicated because of the pandemic, new studio acquisitions, and existing projects.
The biggest pieces missing are Demon's Souls and Ghost of Tsushima and both make sense as to why they haven't been ported.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
It doesn't matter if Returnal & Rift Apart didn't set the charts on fire on PS5. Keep in mind the PS5 install base was a lot smaller in 2021 than it is today. But Steam supposedly has an install base of over 130 million, and was about that size even in 2021, let alone 2022 or 2023. You mean to tell me the dozens of millions more Steam users on PC didn't magically result in a proportional increase of the sales? But I thought that install base number had merit...oh yeah, you don't have to pay for a Steam account. That makes it a lot easier to reach 130+ million users.
Anyway, Returnal & Rift Apart did fine on PS5 given install base size, the fact the former is a brand new IP and the latter a known but not-as-big 1P IP (compared to GOW, TLOU, Uncharted, Spiderman etc.). They are still moving increments of units day in and day out as well, so it's not like they've 100% stopped selling just because new games are available. Horizon & GOW did the best out of Sony's PC ports but definitely not in terms of total revenue; many of those 3-4 million were sold at steep sales prices and discounts.
However that just seems to be the nature of a lot of PC gamers: willing to spend big on hardware, but pocket change on software. It's part of the reason I feel any strategy with SIE in porting current-gen releases to PC that are non-GaaS is ultimately value-destructive to the console side of things, at least for this generation (and all or most of next generation, I'd say).
Are those pre-or-post refunds for Starfield? And it seems the game went on sale rather quickly even on Steam, so just because a copy sold doesn't mean it was necessarily good revenue off that copy.
And where are you getting the FH5 numbers? How much was the average MSRP per copy sold? I'd think a game moving 6 million on Steam, maybe 1 million on Windows Store and another 2-3 million on Xbox consoles would warrant a sales figure update. The more likely truth is it's well under 6 million sold on Steam and probably similar on other platforms & storefronts. After all, it's in Game Pass. And we know what Game Pass does to sales of games going by Microsoft's own data in the FTC hearing.
Right, that's several years old, but you're being more figurative in that usage if you think a mere 1-2 years suits "several", whereas for me it would be more literal. If they want to port current-gen non-GaaS titles to PC, and not bottom-out the value proposition of the console, the best way would be as follows: give the games a 4-6 year gap, time the PC port for 1-2 years before a new entry (or new equivalent game) from that studio releases on PS consoles. Add in QOL features and maybe additional content for the PC version that's a sneak peek into the next release from the studio, but provide that content and QOL stuff for console owners who already purchased the game to upgrade to for a small fee, depending on the type of content (so $10, or $20 or $30 for full-on expansions).
1-2 years simply isn't enough breathing room, especially considering crossover between console and PC. And yes this exist, even Jim Ryan has admitted to it by acknowledging the platforms compete for players' time and money. If gaming tastes weren't similar, we wouldn't be seeing so many multiplat ports between both platforms. It'd be a lot closer to what it was back in the '90s, or during most of 6th gen, where the majority of libraries between console and PC was very distinct (and if there were ports, they were many years spaced apart).
Otherwise I think maybe we're in agreement about the general way Sony can approach the strategy. Like you said, if sales & revenue console-side are impacted, they can adjust. However, let's be real here: $120 million revenue off PC sales isn't going to fund a modern AAA game all by itself. Maybe a couple AA games, but Sony's big AAA traditional games are costing up to $200 million a piece now. Considering the revenue they likely make annually from just 1P game sales on PlayStation, you'd expect PC ports to be doing like $120 million - $150 million per quarter, not the entire fiscal year. So PC players need to step it up if the plan is to net more 1P releases from Sony that would come to PC, and come sooner (maybe even Day 1).
But the problem is, how does that side scale up, in a way which won't impact console-side revenue and sales in the short or especially long-term? There isn't actually a solid answer for that yet; Microsoft completely failed to provide a satisfying answer, so who's left? That's why it's a very delicate balance and if I were running SIE, I wouldn't want to emphasize PC too much at all in the risk of shifting core enthusiasts to that platform and away from PlayStation consoles (and everything the console helps boost, like sub service rates, 3P sales, MTX/DLC sales, peripheral sales, even branding deals and marketing rights etc.).
I agree that this is the strategy. The only part that may need adjustment IMO is the time between console and PC versions of current-gen releases. Good point about timing PC ports in line with certain transmedia releases (films, TV shows etc.), but I think that is something which can't be done at the expense of retaining peak value for what these games do for the console. As soon as a PC version is released, there is some cannibalization of console-side sales, but I don't think it's necessarily only specific to that game. There's likely a bleed-over effect to other games, 1P & 3P, as well, across the whole platform. That's why when you do such a port as a platform holder, it should be as much in the tail end of the game's natural lifecycle as possible, and IMO the natural lifecycle is however long the game exists until the sequel (or an equivalent new release from the studio) is due for release.
So, we know how long it takes for modern AAA releases to be made. That's why IMO 1-2 years should be closer to 4-6. I think some of the transmedia projects can be adjusted for revolving around that type of cycle, since those projects are dependent on the game IP themselves. They can (and should) make exceptions for non-traditional titles though, such as GaaS/live service releases. When/if Factions 2 is finished, for example, I don't see a reason not to make it Day 1 between console and PC. But just make sure you let console players get some really good perks (mainly cosmetics or things that don't result in rigging balance in favor of one platform over another) tied to PS Plus subscriptions. Things like that are gestures of goodwill for them, since they're the ones paying for online play (while PC gamers aren't).
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mayham2199
Member
Infamous was the 3rd game but was a new story not connected to the other games. I played it without knowing anything about the other games since it was my first playsation console and I understood the story just fine. On top of that they brought over the second Ratchet and Clank game but not the first one. Also Killzone Shadowfall which I get it wasn't exactly well received but I actually did really enjoy that games campaign and thought the ending was really good.
You make a good argument for Ghost and them waiting for the movie I can see that but again that's my whole point Sony is being vague. We can assume it will be released around the movie but we don't know. Blood Borne still hasn't been released. What is your good reason for Demon Souls not releasing?
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Xbox Series 3rd calendar year sales are tracking below OG Xbox's 3rd calendar year in unit sales. You really want to give a list of factors contributing to that which doesn't include their rushed Day 1 PC strategy? You do that then.
But you'd rather focus on revenue to prove they're doing better comparatively, ignoring inflation, ignoring games and consoles (and peripherals) costing more vs. 20 years ago, ignoring the Zenimax & ABK (and Minecraft) revenue folding into Xbox to provide the majority of revenue boosts they've seen in the past 10 or so years.
It is what it is but if Sony take a more Microsoft-like approach to PC, we'll have the data to back all this up, since you want to ignore it already exists in a form with Xbox.
MasterCornholio
Member
No idea where to put this but here goes.
It's raining alts. Hallelujah it's raining alts in here.
It's raining alts. Hallelujah it's raining alts in here.
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Klayzer
Member
My take is, its money to be made in the PC arena. But at what cost? Eroding your loyal console base, where the bulk of all your profits come from is dangerous, in my opinion.
Xbox Series 3rd calendar year sales are tracking below OG Xbox's 3rd calendar year in unit sales. You really want to give a list of factors contributing to that which doesn't include their rushed Day 1 PC strategy? You do that then.
But you'd rather focus on revenue to prove they're doing better comparatively, ignoring inflation, ignoring games and consoles (and peripherals) costing more vs. 20 years ago, ignoring the Zenimax & ABK (and Minecraft) revenue folding into Xbox to provide the majority of revenue boosts they've seen in the past 10 or so years.
It is what it is but if Sony take a more Microsoft-like approach to PC, we'll have the data to back all this up, since you want to ignore it already exists in a form with Xbox.
Once a console user goes PC, it's very unlikely they will go back to a console as their main gaming platform. Free online, cheaper store fronts, ability to upgrade at anytime, mods, etc.
Sony and Nintendo have a real time example of what can happen to your base over time, if you give customers a reason not to invest in your console ecosystem.
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Topher
Identifies as young
MasterCornholio
Member
Yep that's the one.Whoever this guy is he is making a pisspoor effort....
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Exactly this. I get there are people who want to think PC and console are not competing in similar spaces, but that just isn't true. They share too much of the same library (both in actual games and genre proliferation) to pretend otherwise. Not to mention, a lot of these games can be enjoyed on PC with modest settings, which aren't that much more expensive to buy than a console.
It really comes down to how many enthusiasts have FOMO, but there's a way of looking at this sensibly. If that person is an enthusiast on PC, chances are they either have been a PC enthusiast the entire time or, more likely, they made a switch to PC (maybe during the end of the 360/PS3 gen) and over time, they would have naturally shifted their buying habits to that platforms. Why buy a 3P game on PlayStation or Xbox, when you can get it on Steam for the same price or cheaper, or CD Keys for even cheaper, or have a much easier time just pirating it compared to doing the same on console and pay nothing? Plus, you're getting unrestricted mod support, whatever form it exists in, you're getting free online, you're getting "free" performance boosts whenever you upgrade your hardware, so on and so forth.
I think it's pretty telling that Jim Ryan is quoted saying PC is a competing platform with PlayStation, because that's just simply true. There's a reasonable way for Sony to support PC without eating into the console market, but I don't think the current 1-2 year gap is it. These games can still do a lot for value proposition for the console years after initial release. You can have people who buy a console years in because of all of those exclusives still tied to it. BC between console generations makes the need for accelerated PC ports even less, because the preservation excuse doesn't hold up well over the short-term or mid-term. Maybe extremely long-term, but that is talking like decades after a console goes defunct.
For live-service/GaaS titles though, I can see the reasons to prioritize PC for shorter release windows or even Day 1. And we also know these platform holders love to remove online functionality for games after a few years; having those types of games on PC where you can set up servers to preserve online functionality would be a smart idea. But, none of these points matter for traditional titles, so I don't see the business reason to bring them to PC in such short windows.
GymWolf
Member
Dude should get banned again just for the poor choice of alt names...Whoever this guy is he is making a pisspoor effort....
MasterCornholio
Member
Whoever this guy is he is making a pisspoor effort....
Well apparently its good.
Maybe we can communicate with it via the alt names.
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Xbox Series 3rd calendar year sales are tracking below OG Xbox's 3rd calendar year in unit sales. You really want to give a list of factors contributing to that which doesn't include their rushed Day 1 PC strategy? You do that then.
But you'd rather focus on revenue to prove they're doing better comparatively, ignoring inflation, ignoring games and consoles (and peripherals) costing more vs. 20 years ago, ignoring the Zenimax & ABK (and Minecraft) revenue folding into Xbox to provide the majority of revenue boosts they've seen in the past 10 or so years.
It is what it is but if Sony take a more Microsoft-like approach to PC, we'll have the data to back all this up, since you want to ignore it already exists in a form with Xbox.
Have you really based your argument on a What IF scenario? so its not even based on reality? wow.
Everyone can see Xbox Series sales so why in the world would Sony follow the same approach? It makes absolutely zero sense.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I'm not saying you had to play the first games, I'm just saying it's tough to port a 3rd game in a franchise with a title like Infamous Second Son. There is a reason they changed the name of God of War from God of War 4 to just God of War which allowed the franchise to blossom with people who had never played the original games. The 2018 game sold 4x more than any of the previous games.
It's also a reason why Uncharted 4 didn't do as well on PC and I don't think as far as franchises go that you really needed to play the original games to understand the storyline there either.
That's also why CDPR is going back to remake Witcher 1 and then they'll remake Witcher 2. No one played those games and while Witcher 3 was a huge success the franchise could have been even more successful.
Capcom has made Resident Evil even more popular by going back and giving people a chance to jump on board the franchise starting with Resident Evil 2 remake.
Rift Apart isn't a sequel to Ratchet and Clank 2016. It's a sequel to Into the Nexus. Which is also part of the reason why it struggled to sell and performed really poorly on PC. They had a decent idea of remaking the Ratchet games but the quality wasn't there and it didn't really perform well and the movie tie in was trash.
Killzone Shadowfall fits a similar situation as Rift Apart. A full reboot of Killzone, just titled Killzone, probably would have done better, quality not withstanding.
Neither Bloodborne or Demon's Souls sold very well. My reason for Demon's Souls not going to PC is because when Bluepoint was brought on they already had projects lined up. It would be difficult for Demon's Souls to etch into the PC strategy. You have to consider what company is going to handle the project.
That's why they bought Nixxes and that's why they've tried to create relationships with companies like Iron Galaxy, their studios are overwhelmed as it is, they don't really have the resources to do PC ports. That's why Kazunori Yamauchi said he would look into a PC port of Gran Turismo 7, but they weren't actively working on it. Polyphony has never done a PC port, it would probably take them a year to two years to port GT7 to PC by themselves. This is time taken away from GT8 or improving GT7. Nixxes can't do EVERY port. They're maxed out now too.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
PS5 doesn't need Sony 1P games to sell at this point. Being able to maximize the popularity of these franchises with transmedia actually helps sell PS5 more than the individual titles.
I think they've been pretty clear with games like Horizon, God of War, and Spider-Man, that you're looking at a 2 year window, and I don't think that has hampered sales.
Sony has found a pretty good balance of being a software producer and a platform holder. The reality is there is more money in the former.
4-6 years is too much because the games are behind technologically at that point and it becomes more difficult to advertise for the games as well. This is why theyve remade TLOU1 and are remastering TLOU2.
Any multiplayer game or GaaS needs to be available on as many platforms as possible. This is what gets you a large player pool which keeps the game relevant. They need to be day 1 on PC, Mobile, and if applicable Switch and Xbox.
Fortnite is popular because you can play it on anything.
Interfectum
Member
"plz don't buy PS5"
k Jez...
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
I do appreciate Linux. I also have a lot of production workloads on Linux at work, like 80-20 va Windows.
What I really don’t like is trying to figure out why my WiFi driver or a printer isn’t working all of a sudden at home when it’s 9-10pm, kids are asleep and I finally want to just chill and relax.
To be fair, Windows has a crapton of issues, but I encounter more annoyances in Linux (GUI desktop with WINE and Proton, server side Linux all the way).
Steam Deck makes it all a lot more simple so I don’t have to mess around with drivers or jump into terminal to tweak configuration files.
If I wasn’t dealing with this shit all day at work I probably would have felt different.
graywolf323
Member
yeah, I mean maybe once SteamOS is available as a distribution I’d consider building a gaming PC on Linux, but otherwise Steam Deck is the only real platform I’d consider using it onI do appreciate Linux. I also have a lot of production workloads on Linux at work, like 80-20 va Windows.
What I really don’t like is trying to figure out why my WiFi driver or a printer isn’t working all of a sudden at home when it’s 9-10pm, kids are asleep and I finally want to just chill and relax.
To be fair, Windows has a crapton of issues, but I encounter more annoyances in Linux (GUI desktop with WINE and Proton, server side Linux all the way).
Steam Deck makes it all a lot more simple so I don’t have to mess around with drivers or jump into terminal to tweak configuration files.
If I wasn’t dealing with this shit all day at work I probably would have felt different.
also it doesn’t help the last two times I’ve attempted to install a Linux distro it’s somehow resulted in my boot sector getting corrupted
I have the worst luck with it for some reason (this happened with Ubuntu back in ~2014 and again just this past year with Linux Mint 
)
iHaunter
Member
Literal neckbeard. No surprise. What a weird story to write. People act like a good gaming PC is $400...I wonder if he maybe has an agenda
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Oh, I don’t mess with multi OS boot loaders anymore, lol. That’s just asking for trouble and I corrupted a boot sector or three beforeyeah, I mean maybe once SteamOS is available as a distribution I’d consider building a gaming PC on Linux, but otherwise Steam Deck is the only real platform I’d consider using it on
also it doesn’t help the last two times I’ve attempted to install a Linux distro it’s somehow resulted in my boot sector getting corrupted
.I have a separate older system with a 980 running Ubuntu that I have been messing with. It can certainly work and Proton is amazing, but it’s still more than I am willing to put in depending on the time.
If I had more time or less IT related work, maybe I wouldn’t mind it as much. Steam Deck avoids that due to the nature of the platform.
graywolf323
Member
honestly I don’t understand how it happened (especially with Linux Mint earlier this year), I work in IT & I know what I’m doing, it even worked fine at first but then something went wrong & I could ONLY boot into Linux Mint (which was really unfortunate since I was triple booting a Bootcamped MacBook…), eventually I was able to uninstall Linux & got MacOS working again but the Windows partition was completely borkedOh, I don’t mess with multi OS boot loaders anymore, lol. That’s just asking for trouble and I corrupted a boot sector or three before
I have a separate older system with a 980 running Ubuntu that I have been messing with. It can certainly work and Proton is amazing, but it’s still more than I am willing to put in depending on the time.
If I had more time or less IT related work, maybe I wouldn’t mind it as much. Steam Deck avoids that due to the nature of the platform.
at this point I just use my ROG Ally as my Windows device, Steam Deck is my Linux one, and then I still have the MacBook (which is from 2017 so it’s showing it’s age)
polybius80
Member
even better, don't buy a windows license!
you can play those games in linux, even the games from microsoft, use that money for a better card, cpu or more ram instead, and you dont have MS stealing your data or capturing what you type
you can play those games in linux, even the games from microsoft, use that money for a better card, cpu or more ram instead, and you dont have MS stealing your data or capturing what you type
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Topher
Identifies as young
I do appreciate Linux. I also have a lot of production workloads on Linux at work, like 80-20 va Windows.
What I really don’t like is trying to figure out why my WiFi driver or a printer isn’t working all of a sudden at home when it’s 9-10pm, kids are asleep and I finally want to just chill and relax.
To be fair, Windows has a crapton of issues, but I encounter more annoyances in Linux (GUI desktop with WINE and Proton, server side Linux all the way).
Steam Deck makes it all a lot more simple so I don’t have to mess around with drivers or jump into terminal to tweak configuration files.
If I wasn’t dealing with this shit all day at work I probably would have felt different.
Linux ain't always easy, but as a programmer it has grown on me. I actually like using bash commands and such. More than anything, I'm tired of corporate nonsense from Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc. Used to be operating systems were personal space, but not so much anymore.
Crayon
Member
I've got a programmer friend who says operating a computer with a mouse is like cutting off your hand because a stump is just simpler.
Topher
Identifies as young
I've got a programmer friend who says operating a computer with a mouse is like cutting off your hand because a stump is just simpler.
lol…I won’t go that far. I still like mice.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Every PS to PC port has performed dramatically worse in sales vs the console releases.
gokurho
Member
Sales-Age - Helldivers 2 has overtaken Palworld as #1 selling game on Steam in the US | Also #1 most pre-ordered game on PSN US & other regions
It's now #1 on Steam.
Don't buy Playstation
MasterCornholio
Member
Helldivers 2 is PC daySales-Age - Helldivers 2 has overtaken Palworld as #1 selling game on Steam in the US | Also #1 most pre-ordered game on PSN US & other regions
It's now #1 on Steam.www.neogaf.com
Don't buy Playstation
What's wrong with the PS5 version?
gokurho
Member
StueyDuck
Member
Never has a thread bump seemed so sad and lonelyHelldivers 2 is PC daySales-Age - Helldivers 2 has overtaken Palworld as #1 selling game on Steam in the US | Also #1 most pre-ordered game on PSN US & other regions
It's now #1 on Steam.
Don't buy Playstation
MasterCornholio
Member
PC ver. doesn't require PS+ subsciption
A lot of people already have a PS+ sub.
