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[Windows Central] Xbox wasn't involved with Redfall, but it's still blamed for its quality

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OceanGaming

Member
"Spencer oversees the entire business as a whole and speaking completely realistically, it shouldn't fall on him to get into the minutiae of every single game launching under the brand. There are only so many physical human hours in the day."
Yeah after i read more carefully, it does seem that Jez is downplaying Phil's part in this without actually putting it on Matt and Aaron and the likes. That's what i thought i read in the first reading, like "stop blaming Phil so much and start blaming Matt and Pete and Aaron more instead" but no, you are right, my mistake.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
I never thought I'd see the day when O Ozriel criticized XB. No need to reply in a disrespectful manner Oz as that was my genuine thoughts. Respectfully.

Eh. My post history isn’t hidden. I’ve criticized MS multiple times before. I’m just consistent in pushing back on what I consider to be unwarranted and unfair criticism done in bad faith.

I think it’s just a patience issue, really. Maybe i would feel different if I were restricted to one console or if I were paying full price for GamePass vs the cheap Gold conversion deal done years ago, but when you own everything and have a backlog that stretches back years, it’s hard to get that angry over things like delays.

This Redfall thing is just downright irritating, though. Unprofessional conduct from all involved.
 

kuncol02

Banned
It took Jez less than a day to get right back up on the shill wagon after his negative review of Redfall.

Hi-Fi Rush came out and all these zealots could do was praise Microsoft. Even though the game was in development pre-acquisition. If I’m not mistaken, some of these fanboys even wrote pieces like “Hi-Fi Rush Wouldn’t Have Happened Without Microsoft”.

But a studio bought in the same merger puts out absolute garbage and suddenly I’m supposed to believe that Microsoft had nothing at all to do with it and Microsoft bears no blame?

Fuck outta here.

If they’re gonna credit Microsoft for things like Hi-Fi Rush, then they gotta blame Microsoft for trash like Redfall.

Yea, that isn't how it works.

Microsoft aren't just letting Bethesda make all their own decisions. Everything has to be ok'd further up the chain.

Microsoft is fully to blame, along with Arkane and Zenimax.

Do you have reading comprehension problems? Or task of knowing difference between Microsoft (corporation), XBox (division of Microsoft, now AFAIK called Microsoft Gaming), XBox Games Studios (publisher run by Matt Booty) and Zenimax/Bethesda (another publisher run by Peter Hines) is to hard to you?
 

GHG

Gold Member
I’m just consistent in pushing back on what I consider to be unwarranted and unfair criticism done in bad faith.

You know what, I'm just going to say it.

99% of the criticism you've seen and defended was warranted because so many people saw this (this being this Redfall situation) coming.

Nothing changes until management at xbox changes, that's the only constant here.
 

Pelta88

Member
On Era, criticizing Jez for being a damage controlling shill is treated like a crime. Notice the ban for a period point/full stop.

yYTnwtc.png

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I think it's time going to ask for a perm on era and make gaf my exclusive lol
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Do you have reading comprehension problems? Or task of knowing difference between Microsoft (corporation), XBox (division of Microsoft, now AFAIK called Microsoft Gaming), XBox Games Studios (publisher run by Matt Booty) and Zenimax/Bethesda (another publisher run by Peter Hines) is to hard to you?
Do you?
  • Xbox Game Studios (Matt Booty) = NOT to be blamed ❌ (Zenimax/Arkane does not report into Matt or XGS).
  • Zenimax/Bethesda = to be blamed ✅ (Arkane is their studio)
  • Xbox (Microsoft Gaming) = to be blamed ✅ (Zenimax reports into Xbox, whose Head is Phil Spencer)
  • Microsoft = to be blamed ✅ (it is their division, and they own and are responsible for everything. The buck stops with them).
Edit: Check out this post; Zenimax may actually be reporting into Matt Booty [https://www.neogaf.com/threads/wind...blamed-for-its-quality.1656186/post-267904964] Thanks to SaucyJack SaucyJack .
 
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Dick Jones

Gold Member
Do you?
  • Xbox Game Studios (Matt Booty) = NOT to be blamed ❌ (Zenimax/Arkane does not report into Matt or XGS).
  • Zenimax/Bethesda = to be blamed ✅ (Arkane is their studio)
  • Xbox (Microsoft Gaming) = to be blamed ✅ (Zenimax reports into Xbox, whose Head is Phil Spencer)
  • Microsoft = to be blamed ✅ (it is their division, and they own and are responsible for everything. The buck stops with them).
Stop protecting the Booty. Even if it isn't his fault he needs gone too. This mess is going on since Mattrick was booted, so who was the last major executive to get sacked? They are worse than civil servants with the protection given.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Stop protecting the Booty. Even if it isn't his fault he needs gone too. This mess is going on since Mattrick was booted, so who was the last major executive to get sacked? They are worse than civil servants with the protection given.

But I like Booty!

Jim Carrey Flirting GIF


On a serious note, Booty should be sacked for Halo Infinite, Crackdown 3, Bleeding Edge, and the delay to various XGS games. Yes. But not for Redfall; it wasn't his responsibility.
 

simpatico

Member
It's almost like when you beg people to buy something, and the something is not good, you're kinda responsible for it. If they really want to fix Redfall, I think the path is clear: Kinect features. It's the one thing I felt was really missing during my time with the game.
 
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simpatico

Member
On Era, criticizing Jez for being a damage controlling shill is treated like a crime. Notice the ban for a period point/full stop.

yYTnwtc.png

AZ3MZtc.png


I think it's time going to ask for a perm on era and make gaf my exclusive lol
plz get your money's worth and share the screen caps here.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
On Era, criticizing Jez for being a damage controlling shill is treated like a crime. Notice the ban for a period point/full stop.

yYTnwtc.png

AZ3MZtc.png


I think it's time going to ask for a perm on era and make gaf my exclusive lol

There are several reasons why I choose to post on Gaf and not Era, and one of them is most assuredly the fact that this forum doesn't desperately want the 'kudos' of having media shills and journalists maintain accounts with it, and so therefore doesn't suck up to them like a vampire on a hobo in Redfall.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
You can't have it both ways, Hi Fi Rush comes out and is superb and people say well it wasn't anything to do with MS as has been in development for years. The same situation applies to Redfall.
If MS is to "blame" for Redfall launch problems then it must also take all the credit for Hi Fi Rush.
They can take credit for supporting the studios in the places where they need it. Tango Gameworks clearly had the idea and execution for Hi-Fi Rush locked down, but it really needed more marketing push to reach its potential. What they did was shadow-drop an excellent game into a cut-throat market and left it to fend for itself (a simple round of mock reviews would have told them they had a banger on their hands). Redfall clearly needed technical and creative support to deliver on the vision, but again, they were left to their own devices. Management is about giving studios what they need to succeed and working with each studio to provide that.
 
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Bernardougf

Member
Quoting this one for truth. The biggest justification for these mergers is the additional marketing power, resources, expertise and funding that a platform holder can provide. Hi-Fi Rush was shadow-dropped with almost no marketing support and now we're being told that Microsoft took little-to-no interest in Arkane's latest project. If the only outcome is that these games will just appear on fewer platforms than they would have, is this really in anyone's interest?
Gamepass filler... nothing more ... everyone's know it .. some shills will die in the hill of denial ... but it is what it is.. drop a stream of continuous content, quality dosent matter ..some times they will luck out (hi fi rush) most of the time will be shit ..... the netflix way of life ...
 
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Eotheod

Member
People being all "change the management team they suck!" do know that won't inherently fix the issues being experienced right now? That the replacement of management staff actually involved with the production of Xbox titles is not just one or two people but a GIGANTIC list of people, and replacing that is impossible?

There is no excusing releases that do not live up to the expectation of a working title, where it technically works but the gameplay/story is not a consideration. However, the removal of one public face for another does not solve the core problems being faced by this industry that will likely increase in prominence across all studios/publishers/console makers. This perceived "reset" will not happen through musical chairs of a new face on the brand, as is this case there are multiple causes to the performance of Redfall.

Arkane is clearly either out of their field of comfort development, or they convinced a lead/studio head that this idea could work and it just did not pay off as expected. What I believe the studio needs is better toolsets that are commonplace across the Xbox studios (realistically, all developers should be using an umbrella toolset if possible) so that collaborative development can occur; and not to chase trends but to actually allow the creative processes they so clearly have as a studio to actually bloom into fruition.

Video games are incredibly hard to create in this generation, even going back to last two-three years of previous generation. Heck, the titles being released this year would have started development just as the last generation went into its "end" cycle, showing the increased timelines. AAA titles are not as they once were, and I truly believe we will start to see either live-service games (like Sony) or more ambitious AA games that strike the indie line without being indie budgeted. This will alter the perspectives of your typical consumer, though they won't be as challenged by these changes as the more "enthusiast" player such as those on this forum who analyse by the decimal line.
 

Bernardougf

Member
You can't have it both ways, Hi Fi Rush comes out and is superb and people say well it wasn't anything to do with MS as has been in development for years. The same situation applies to Redfall.
If MS is to "blame" for Redfall launch problems then it must also take all the credit for Hi Fi Rush.
Well if you have the quotes from this "people" saying hifi rush is not MS success and at the same time saying the redfall is MS failure by all means post them here.. lets call out them
 
So many angry hot takes. Yes the game looks like shit and got shitty review scores. However, it’s been said that the studios are free from pressure and are allowed to work on projects that they want to work on.

That being said. Arkane needs a shake up.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
The information is most likely true though, and it kinda falls in line with existing information about MS studio autonomy. Just look at 343 and how they've been allowed to screw up for years seemingly without intervention. ..Which is baffling to me. With all of this going on Microsoft need to set up some sort of oversight mechanisms.
343 was given free reign because Phil played games and was legit friends with a lot of people running 343 and he let that friendship cloud some judgement.

I heard that many times
 
I feel like after any major merger, like Microsoft buying Zenimax, that it's probably smart for the corporation buying to have some kind of oversight? Usually in mergers, a lot of top talent leaves, from both a development and business perspective. I don't know if that was the case with Zenimax, but it feels dumb to reportedly be so hands off. In reality, Microsoft probably should of just given this project the axe. It was obviously a passionless project that was chasing trends that were 4 years old when Microsoft purchased them.
 
The information is most likely true though, and it kinda falls in line with existing information about MS studio autonomy. Just look at 343 and how they've been allowed to screw up for years seemingly without intervention. ..Which is baffling to me. With all of this going on Microsoft need to set up some sort of oversight mechanisms.
I question this narrative 100%. Phil hyped Halo Infinite massively for that gameplay reveal until the internet met Craig and mocked them into delaying the game an extra year or so, to still be released as a complete shitshow.

Maybe, just maybe, Phil and his underlings are not gamers and can't really tell if a game is good or not until they see the reaction from the crowd. Afaik they thought Redfall was the bomb until the previews start coming in, when they realized it was just going to bomb instead.
 
It took Jez less than a day to get right back up on the shill wagon after his negative review of Redfall.

Hi-Fi Rush came out and all these zealots could do was praise Microsoft. Even though the game was in development pre-acquisition. If I’m not mistaken, some of these fanboys even wrote pieces like “Hi-Fi Rush Wouldn’t Have Happened Without Microsoft”.

But a studio bought in the same merger puts out absolute garbage and suddenly I’m supposed to believe that Microsoft had nothing at all to do with it and Microsoft bears no blame?

Fuck outta here.

If they’re gonna credit Microsoft for things like Hi-Fi Rush, then they gotta blame Microsoft for trash like Redfall.

You’re describing general warrior mentality and it swings both ways. Using your HiFi example, lots of people here were saying the game was already in development when MS took over and so they don’t really deserve any credit. We even had threads confirming the game was already in development.

So when a good game releases you have one side wanting to praise MS, and another side trying to downplay and minimize their involvement. When a bad game releases you have one side shitting on MS and blaming them, and another side trying to downplay and minimize their involvement. Again, typical warriors.

At the end of the day imho it doesn’t matter what MS’s involvement was, it’s still a MS game.
 

SaucyJack

Member
Do you?
  • Xbox Game Studios (Matt Booty) = NOT to be blamed ❌ (Zenimax/Arkane does not report into Matt or XGS).
  • Zenimax/Bethesda = to be blamed ✅ (Arkane is their studio)
  • Xbox (Microsoft Gaming) = to be blamed ✅ (Zenimax reports into Xbox, whose Head is Phil Spencer)
  • Microsoft = to be blamed ✅ (it is their division, and they own and are responsible for everything. The buck stops with them).

Actually don't think this is correct ..... Zenimax is a subsidiary of Xbox Game Studios since 2021. Notwithstanding that the former Zenimax businesses have a lot of operating autonomy Booty is still in charge of all of this,

Corporate structure is Xbox Game Studios -> Zenimax Media -> Arkane Studios
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
“Journalists “ I don’t think but some pretty big Twitter guys and I air quote that word for even Jez as they are just extensions of the MS PR machine imo
I agree. There are many PlayStation shills and fanboys on Twitter that have made this their day job.

However, like it not, Jez is a "journalist" that has access to the Windows Central platform. Twitter fanboys have limited reach. Guys like Jez can tap into the journalism medium to reach a much wider audience and even attend important conferences and meetings, e.g., Brad Smith's EC ABK press conference.

Tom Warren, Brad Sams, Jez Corden, Nick: there are many.

I don't think there are any PlayStation fanboys who are "journalists" and also have access to well-known publications that they can use as their propaganda medium. I could be wrong though; I just haven't seen any yet.
 
I agree. There are many PlayStation shills and fanboys on Twitter that have made this their day job.

However, like it not, Jez is a "journalist" that has access to the Windows Central platform. Twitter fanboys have limited reach. Guys like Jez can tap into the journalism medium to reach a much wider audience and even attend important conferences and meetings, e.g., Brad Smith's EC ABK press conference.

Tom Warren, Brad Sams, Jez Corden, Nick: there are many.

I don't think there are any PlayStation fanboys who are "journalists" and also have access to well-known publications that they can use as their propaganda medium. I could be wrong though; I just haven't seen any yet.
He's as much of a journalist as the guys working on playstation blog (no disrespect meant to the bloggers). It's just a marketing branch of Microsoft, not to be taken as independent in any way.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Either way...It's bad....

Maybe, stop playing nice with the publishers and studios you own MS and sort them out.

No excuses.....but the crazies try and find them for you.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Actually don't think this is correct ..... Zenimax is a subsidiary of Xbox Game Studios since 2021. Notwithstanding that the former Zenimax businesses have a lot of operating autonomy Booty is still in charge of all of this,

Corporate structure is Xbox Game Studios -> Zenimax Media -> Arkane Studios
I think you may be right. I found this Gaming Leadership Team chart (Jan 18. 2022) and expected to find Zenimax leadership alongside Matt Booty. But they aren't here.

nVcVIgx.jpg
 

SaucyJack

Member
RaxtxA
I agree. There are many PlayStation shills and fanboys on Twitter that have made this their day job.

However, like it not, Jez is a "journalist" that has access to the Windows Central platform. Twitter fanboys have limited reach. Guys like Jez can tap into the journalism medium to reach a much wider audience and even attend important conferences and meetings, e.g., Brad Smith's EC ABK press conference.

Tom Warren, Brad Sams, Jez Corden, Nick: there are many.

I don't think there are any PlayStation fanboys who are "journalists" and also have access to well-known publications that they can use as their propaganda medium. I could be wrong though; I just haven't seen any yet.

I don’t regard Jez Corden as a journalist or even a “journalist”. He does public relations.
 

theclaw135

Banned
The Zenimax deal closed over 2 years ago. There's no way you're telling me at no point in the last 2 years Matt Booty or one of his people didn't look at this game and think "maybe let's chat with whoever at Bethesda is the producer on this game".

Both Microsoft and Bethesda need to take responsibility for this. Microsoft especially because this is their first AAA exclusive since Halo Infinite. Why did they not take care to make sure everything was fucking perfect?

This is a larger problem with Microsoft right now. They seem to be incapable of managing their studios and projects. Unfortunately for Phil, that starts with him. if you can't fo it all yourself, hire good managers. If you can't do that, then maybe you need to let someone do your job.

Refer back to the acquisition announcement. Microsoft intends to be hands off.
Bethesda’s structure and leadership will remain in place.
 

JackMcGunns

Member
He'd be singing a different tune would the game be a 90+


Obviously, but fair is fair, whether good or bad, the game was in development before the acquisition and things are tricky with mergers and acquisitions, if the new leadership comes in gung-ho and starts telling a team how to do their job, it usually ends up in disaster.
 
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Interfectum

Member
On Era, criticizing Jez for being a damage controlling shill is treated like a crime. Notice the ban for a period point/full stop.

yYTnwtc.png

AZ3MZtc.png


I think it's time going to ask for a perm on era and make gaf my exclusive lol
I'm surprised Era cares about Jez. The dude is been on Defining Duke which is a part of Colin Moriarty's company.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
RaxtxA


I don’t regard Jez Corden as a journalist or even a “journalist”. He does public relations.
Yeah, but we know him and his shenanigans. Others, Windows Central average users for example, will just eat up his propaganda without knowing the reality.
 
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