TommyCronin6969
Member
Arkane tried something new and it didn't work out. Why do people get so upset over this.
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[Windows Central] Xbox wasn't involved with Redfall, but it's still blamed for its quality
- Thread starter gokurho
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Banjo64
cumsessed
That was a simple innocent attempt to put an always on camera/mic in everyone’s living room with an NSA back door as well as stripping everyone’s purchasing rights back to the Stone Age.
- The highest people in the company trying to insult and bully the UK
- Having all of their ‘good guy’ persona and down right lies about cloud gaming and Game Pass not cannibalising game sales torn to shreds in the CMA’s findings as well as their true motivations finally being laid bare.
- Continuing to learn nothing by releasing shite like Redfall to the 15m people that were sold a dream
- Throwing one of their shiny acquisitions under the bus
SCB3
Member
Better than that, releasing a Next Gen Console with no first party games, limited to 900p on most games which was less than the previous console, focussing on being the centre of the Entertainment Unit and including a fucking Camera that no one wanted and then the design of the console was akin to a VCR, and this was after their biggest success in the 360, this was such an easy win for them in theory
The sheer failure of the Xbox One launch should be studied on what not to do, no wonder Sony got a massive lead with both Xbox and Nintendo fumbling hard
SCB3
Member
We deserve it tbh
Banjo64
cumsessed
True. Just not from a mega conglomerate that avoids paying tax here.
Crayon
Member
I can't speak to the MVP program but if it's anything like the Windows/Office MVPs, they at least have some sort of actual direct connection to and oversight from Microsoft. If a Windows MVP starts handing out bogus information on their support forums, for example, they can (and will) be stripped of their status.
Ambassadors are just a viral marketing campaign that turns Xbox fans into brand marketers. I know, I'm in the program. It's literally just a web "game" within the brand. They have seasons, each of which have a different theme, and then you visit every month or so and they have "missions" for you to do which consist solely of visiting videos, visiting blogs, or visiting official forums to earn "XP" toward your next level. Then they encourage people to go to other forums and post what they're given through the Ambassador program. They also have a Discord server to reinforce the narrative.
Here, see for yourself. They just switched over to promoting Asian and Pacific Islander Heritage Month in addition to their normal game promotions and newly added accessibility "quest" hub. I enrolled years ago. I realized how pointless it all was when I hit "level 2 ambassador". I have better things to do with my time than constantly doing these meaningless quests.
Well that would explain a lot. The page https://ambassadors.microsoft.com/xbox_ is presented like you are singing up to be a nice person in general. I'd like to see it for myself. I tried to sign up but I forgot my ms login. They probably have me blacklisted anyway.
GHG
Member
Nothing about Redfall is "new" or ambitious.
It's an amalgamation of all the most cynical game design tropes from the last decade. The only thing it's missing is microtransactions/lootboxes.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Did Forza not release on day 1? I thought it had. There is a bit of contortion on first party games (I believe that if the console maker own the studio or are the publisher it is first party), I imagine you call Ryse a second party game so that doesn't count. What second party games released day 1 on Xbox Series?
Crayon
Member
Because it's inextricably wrapped up in the bethesda purchase and exclusivity and all that. If beth was still independent the game could be a disappointment and pass quietly. But there is a 20 year console war going on out there and people are dying.
Yes, Forza 5 was day one, was 1 of my launch games .
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
So you're telling me that the only involvement from MS was them telling Harvey & and the rest of the team at Arkane Austin to cancel the PS5 version of Redfall? 
skit_data
Member
Lol, what a joke. These kind of arguments are primarily heard from warriors on forums.
They were obviously involved enough to use it as their ”one more thing”, involved enough to delay it and finally involved enough to kick it out of the door half finished because they realized if they didn’t they’d had broken the promise of ”these games will be arriving within 12 months” on every single one of the first party titles included there.
They were obviously involved enough to use it as their ”one more thing”, involved enough to delay it and finally involved enough to kick it out of the door half finished because they realized if they didn’t they’d had broken the promise of ”these games will be arriving within 12 months” on every single one of the first party titles included there.
StealthGoblin
Banned
That’s an insane position to have taken in my opinion.
If you are going to showcase the game, own the IP and hang your brands reputation on in like you would any other first party game then you should be checking in on things and making sure the standard is there.
Have they done the same for Starfield?
If you are going to showcase the game, own the IP and hang your brands reputation on in like you would any other first party game then you should be checking in on things and making sure the standard is there.
Have they done the same for Starfield?
critical people at arkane left years ago. Including the head of arkane Lyon, who is working on Darwin’s paradox, and an arkane co-founder and creator of dishonored and prey who founded a new studio that made weird west. The timing very much tracks with the change of direction at arkane and the ending of their “immersive sim” stuff in pursuit of experimental stuff with integrating multiplayer. They’ll have lost other staff in that journey too. If it is indeed the case that they simply aren’t the studio they were, then I wouldn’t be opposed to them closing, so the remaining key people can reform in some way in the spirit of what they once were.
mrmustard
Banned
You know why. If MS didn't have bought them we would have a two pages long thread about that crap game and everbody would have moved on. Same goes for Forspoken. But exclusive games always cause drama, because fanboys are weird.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
And people wonder why I don't trust Ms/Xbox.
Fervent discussion about this on my WhatsApp group, certainly not kind to Microsoft at all.
Not sure what Jez expected to achieve with this article, but it’s backfiring pretty badly…and makes them look really silly.
Sometimes there are things you don’t defend. There’s nothing undeserved about the response. Arkane made a bad game, and made the choice to make a game with such unappealing visuals and poor AI. Microsoft should have much better quality control.
Some years ago, Phil promised to ensure better quality from Xbox after the Crackdown 3 debacle and Sea of Thieves launch reviews. To be fair, they’ve upped the quality game since then, but this is a terrible retrogression and Xbox bears ultimate responsibility
Not sure what Jez expected to achieve with this article, but it’s backfiring pretty badly…and makes them look really silly.
Sometimes there are things you don’t defend. There’s nothing undeserved about the response. Arkane made a bad game, and made the choice to make a game with such unappealing visuals and poor AI. Microsoft should have much better quality control.
Some years ago, Phil promised to ensure better quality from Xbox after the Crackdown 3 debacle and Sea of Thieves launch reviews. To be fair, they’ve upped the quality game since then, but this is a terrible retrogression and Xbox bears ultimate responsibility
nemiroff
Gold Member
The information is most likely true though, and it kinda falls in line with existing information about MS studio autonomy. Just look at 343 and how they've been allowed to screw up for years seemingly without intervention. ..Which is baffling to me. With all of this going on Microsoft need to set up some sort of oversight mechanisms.
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KungFucius
King Snowflake
Why would you blame the acquiring company for the outcome of a project that started before the acquisition? Do you people not realize how long it takes to integrate all the parts and that it takes years after a deal closes for management to fully sync up? Of course not because it is easy to have no clue, make assumptions and point fingers. The most Xbox could really do for a game is make some high level decisions. It is just as possible that Xbox implied they wanted the game released as it is that Arkane management wanted to push the release to impress the bosses.
Xbox wasn't involved with Redfall, but it's still blamed for its quality
Fair or not, Bethesda games now reflect on Xbox.www.windowscentral.com
Don't blame Xbox, Phil and Matt for Redfall
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Whatever Xbox’s day to day influence on the making of this game was, they were happy to release it to consumers in the fucking state it’s in.
Xbox are entirely responsible for this disaster, because the buck stops with them.
Any squirming and gaslighting by its media shills is not going to change that cold, hard fact.
Xbox are entirely responsible for this disaster, because the buck stops with them.
Any squirming and gaslighting by its media shills is not going to change that cold, hard fact.
The Pleasure
Gold Member
Author hearing Jim Ryan outside his window
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Dick Jones
Gold Member
So you're telling me that the only involvement from MS was them telling Harvey & and the rest of the team at Arkane Austin to cancel the PS5 version of Redfall?
Default response on Neogaf.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
This may be true... but that doesn't change anything. Its still the choice, action, or whatever of MS to be hands-off and give their studios that much autonomy. When all they need is to have a small team of people that goes around from Xbox HQ to these studios to make sure certain minimum standards are met. Because MS of all people should know that no matter how they go around dealing with these things, the final product would be reflective of their brand.
You don't purchase a studio/IP, fund its marketing, determine which platforms the IP can be on, put it on their service...etc, then when it reviews poorly, and is received poorly, you throw the studio under the bus and start saying you had nothing do with it.
I swear this is something that only MS can and will do.
You are kidding, right? like... you cannot possibly be serious.
I am honestly beginning to wonder what is worse, MS/Xbox? Or its fans. Just when I see something else MS/Xbox does or says and think to myself, how can this even happen or they do this... just on cue, I see stuff their supporters say that makes me go... wow.
If you guys do not or cannot hold them accountable.... who will?
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systemr123
Banned
Exactly, investors also just look at the bottom line which says: who did publish Redfall? The answer is Microsoft, the blame is entirely up to MS and all that nonsense about they just bought Bethesda 2 years ago and they couldn’t interfere if they wanted is such bullcrap.
They could have done so many things, trying a more hands on approach with one of their own studios because that’s what it is 1 day after the acquisition completed. They could have restructured the studio, they could have canceled the game and tell Arkane to start over. They could delay the game more until it would be good.
They did none of this and its entirely on MS management of which Phil is the end responsible person in charge. In fact, they used Redfall in their earnings call, they marketed it as the next great MS game etc. etc. Also, this is not the first time since the Series console that things go bad. It’s Halo too, and crackdown, and games like everwild that they even have no idea of what kind of game it’s going to be.
It’s Phil’s henchmen that make it that much worse, Booty, Greenberg etc. The whole Xbox management has to go home and call it a day. They had more than a decade to fix things and it’s never been more dire than now.
kyussman
Member
I think Mr Jez is ice skating uphill on this one.....everyone will go direct to the top when looking for blame here......and when that guy at the top is constantly mouthing off about "doing better" and "we hear you" when it comes to game quality then it makes him a very valid target.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
First become a moderator on that other forum that shall not be named, then you can apply for the ambassador program.
Ev1L AuRoN
Member
Of course it's the upper management fault. And it suck when your boss doggie the blame and let the team hang.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Found Jez Corden's GAF account.
BbMajor7th
Member
Quoting this one for truth. The biggest justification for these mergers is the additional marketing power, resources, expertise and funding that a platform holder can provide. Hi-Fi Rush was shadow-dropped with almost no marketing support and now we're being told that Microsoft took little-to-no interest in Arkane's latest project. If the only outcome is that these games will just appear on fewer platforms than they would have, is this really in anyone's interest?
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Giallo Corsa
Member
To be completely fair, at the very least, Crackdown 3 was perfectly playable with no other (major) problems other than it didn't set the world on fire like many were expecting (i.e, it was just mediocre).
Redfall on the other hand manages to lower the bar even more and therein lies the problem.
What a joke, those 8/10 and 7/10 reviews ? - if this is a 8/10 then other mediocre games like the order 1886, Crackdown 3 and Forspoken should have been 10/10 going by the (paid) reviews, again, as it stands, Redfall for all intents and purposes - and always in comparison - is literally a 2/10 -3/10 title.
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kyussman
Member
I mean,taken in isolation you make a fair point......but I don't think people are taking this in isolation,but more of in the context of Microsofts handling of game releases.....and some of that may well be console warrior nonsense but I think there is a strong case to argue,they seem to have issues over there......just look at the whole release of Halo Infinite and that first gameplay demo,I don't think people are making this stuff up.
systemr123
Banned
Jimbo, not the man we want, but the hero MS need!
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Tsaki
Member
His stance towards Microsoft's involvement would change.
GymWolf
Gold Member
The game has 20 dollars indie production values dude, hell i think that even fucking hades has better production values...
Their previous games were considered between AA and AAA but they always had great art design to punch over their weight.
This one looks like it was made with dreams...
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Tried something new as in braindead enemy AI, poorly thought out controls, giant open world sections with no enemies, cars that blow up when you shoot the windows, melee kills by hitting a vampire in the ass…and that’s not even getting into the poor technical aspects.
This isn’t merely trying something new. This is knowingly releasing a giant steaming turd on gamers for $70. Arkane and Microsoft deserve every bit of being dragged through the mud for this.
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ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Somebody's lying here.
The justification for Microsoft's acquisition spree including Zenimax was that their "war chest" would support and elevate the purchased studios to new heights. Whether or not the studios under Bethesda were in decline before the purchase (a burden I think Zenimax owners wanted to offload before they felt the bite), they seem to be hitting new lows after the fact. Releasing substandard "AAA" stuff is not outside of Xbox's wheelhouse anyway. If it isn't Forza or a game so small in scope that you could confuse it for something from multiple gens previous, there have been massive issues with Xbox first party for the entirety of Spencer's regime; most of it being when they only had a handful of studios to manage. I do believe that they've already got too many for their meager skillset, and that they can't commit even more resources amongst their 20+ studios and christ knows how many projects after spending billions.
People also claimed that the Gamepass model specifically allowed for flexibility of type of game, and gave a safety net for games to get delayed, and definitely not incentivize or even necessitate mediocrity by substantially cutting down the earning potential of any given title. I'm thinking that's now been officially debunked. There are mainstream games media outlets and pundits who flirt with putting it how it is, but I wonder how many more failures it will take before we finally stop having to debate this self evident fallacy.
The justification for Microsoft's acquisition spree including Zenimax was that their "war chest" would support and elevate the purchased studios to new heights. Whether or not the studios under Bethesda were in decline before the purchase (a burden I think Zenimax owners wanted to offload before they felt the bite), they seem to be hitting new lows after the fact. Releasing substandard "AAA" stuff is not outside of Xbox's wheelhouse anyway. If it isn't Forza or a game so small in scope that you could confuse it for something from multiple gens previous, there have been massive issues with Xbox first party for the entirety of Spencer's regime; most of it being when they only had a handful of studios to manage. I do believe that they've already got too many for their meager skillset, and that they can't commit even more resources amongst their 20+ studios and christ knows how many projects after spending billions.
People also claimed that the Gamepass model specifically allowed for flexibility of type of game, and gave a safety net for games to get delayed, and definitely not incentivize or even necessitate mediocrity by substantially cutting down the earning potential of any given title. I'm thinking that's now been officially debunked. There are mainstream games media outlets and pundits who flirt with putting it how it is, but I wonder how many more failures it will take before we finally stop having to debate this self evident fallacy.
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Deathloop was a GOTY contender at the Game awards. Stop it.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Good to know Microsoft’s the deadbeat Dad of the industry.
I’m sure if Starfield’s a hit, they’ll be front and center going “that’s my boy!”
I’m sure if Starfield’s a hit, they’ll be front and center going “that’s my boy!”
GymWolf
Gold Member
He can try, but most people are saying the same thing and he can't ban 90% of people in a topic.
The dude is probably seething like a motherfucker.
SaucyJack
Member
What a dumb article, but ultimately unsurprising that a shill like Corden wants to have his cake and eat it.
Sure, Redfall was probably quite advanced in the development cycle when MS took over Zenimax, a deal that completed over 2 years ago. And sure, MS may have allowed Bethesda a lot of autonomy in how they’re run. However, you can’t hide from accountability. Microsoft own them and they’ve been an Xbox studio for over 2 years, decisions were greenlit, people obviously saw this at various stages in the development cycle and approved it to continue and approved its release.
My biggest concern with Xbox has been the incompetent management of their studios ….. since 360 days ….. and this story absolutely confirms my bias.
Sure, Redfall was probably quite advanced in the development cycle when MS took over Zenimax, a deal that completed over 2 years ago. And sure, MS may have allowed Bethesda a lot of autonomy in how they’re run. However, you can’t hide from accountability. Microsoft own them and they’ve been an Xbox studio for over 2 years, decisions were greenlit, people obviously saw this at various stages in the development cycle and approved it to continue and approved its release.
My biggest concern with Xbox has been the incompetent management of their studios ….. since 360 days ….. and this story absolutely confirms my bias.
Riky
$MSFT
You can't have it both ways, Hi Fi Rush comes out and is superb and people say well it wasn't anything to do with MS as has been in development for years. The same situation applies to Redfall.
If MS is to "blame" for Redfall launch problems then it must also take all the credit for Hi Fi Rush.
If MS is to "blame" for Redfall launch problems then it must also take all the credit for Hi Fi Rush.
Bernoulli
M2 slut
but arkane says they did
fr.ign.com
Oui, Redfall était initialement prévu sur PS5
Pas vraiment surprenant... mais intéressant.
At some point, Spencer needs to get someone who’s going to go to these studios, play these games and give an internal quality seal before release.
I think we can establish that sometimes his own taste just doesn’t cut it.
Not the first time a quality promise has been broken
But this should damn well be the last, FFS.
Have open days with each studio. Bring over senior staff from each studio for peer reviews. I refuse to believe the heads of Coalition, ID and Machine gun games would play through Redfall and not raise an alarm if asked for candid feedback. Hire more QA people and have detailed quality checklists.
Not exactly rocket science.
I think we can establish that sometimes his own taste just doesn’t cut it.
Not the first time a quality promise has been broken
But this should damn well be the last, FFS.
Have open days with each studio. Bring over senior staff from each studio for peer reviews. I refuse to believe the heads of Coalition, ID and Machine gun games would play through Redfall and not raise an alarm if asked for candid feedback. Hire more QA people and have detailed quality checklists.
Not exactly rocket science.
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