VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Strongly disagree. The biggest reason Android is such a juggernaut is the sheer amount of devices out there. It certainly isn't because the OS is superior to everything else.jagowar said:
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Windows Phone 7 |OT|
- Thread starter brotkasten
- Start date
- Status
Anton Sugar
Member
I think I'm gonna make a thread about these new features...WE MUST SPREAD THE WORD.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
snap0212 said:
Whats the problem with Live Gold? The only thing I can think of that is available in the US that has no European equivalent is Netflix(which isn't available at all in Europe)
Canada too. I had to create a US account in order to enable all the features on my Zune HD and on my Focus I have to set part of my locations to US in order to get Bing/Maps searches to work. It's an easy workaround most of the time, but it's annoying that most things don't just work here the same as they do in the US.snap0212 said:
The Abominable Snowman
Member
There are a few. device-wide search being one of the ones I really miss.JaggedSac said:
Then there's the fact that Bing isn't anywhere near as good as the Windows Mobile 6.5 version and the Xbox Live experience not as good as the iPhone/Android programs.
If they updated Bing with device-wide searching, Turn by Turn, local news and international news feeds, and some sort of functionality on the main screen instead of just a pretty picture, it would be head and shoulders above any other search app out there.
Edit: Also Bluetooth hardware profiles would be amazing as well. I dream of being able to carry a small gamepad around with my phone, set my kickstand up and engage in a little serious phone gameplay. My phone doesn't have a front-facing camera, so a bluetooth camera would be pretty awesome for skyping or oovoing or whatever other prog could make its way over.
VanMardigan said:
That is what all the other manufacturers are for.... nokia needs to be the iphone or droid line for wp7..... the one everybody points to when you think of wp7 hardware. Samsung, HTC, LG, Dell, etc can flood the market with phones what WP7 currently lacks is the hero phone.
Updates to the hardware spec. They are calling this a new chassis, but that doesn't really make sense to me...
MSM 7x30 - As seen in the T-Mobile G2 (800 MHz)
MSM 8x55 - As seen in the HTC Inspire/Desire HD/Incredible S, Sony Xperia XPlay (1 GHz) and HTC Thundebrolt (1.2 GHz)
And optional Gyro
MSM 7x30 - As seen in the T-Mobile G2 (800 MHz)
MSM 8x55 - As seen in the HTC Inspire/Desire HD/Incredible S, Sony Xperia XPlay (1 GHz) and HTC Thundebrolt (1.2 GHz)
And optional Gyro
brotkasten
Member
It's the second gen Snapdragon. Higher performance per Watt, better GPU and smaller manufacturing process, making it cheaper than the first gen, HSPA+ support. Still no dual-core, which is not surprising, because Windows CE6 R3 doesn't support SMP. The optional gyro sucks, though.PG2G said:
jagowar said:
From the rumors, the W8 will be that hero phone. They are working with Qualcomm to get the best available for 1Q/2Q 2012 for that phone.
Nokia is one of the largest phone makers in the world. They need to cover all sorts of phones (from slates to sliders to candy bars) and probably both on the high end and low end.
Last.FM, MSN, ESPN and Zune Pass, for example.Cerebral Assassin said:
Then there's also the price point for Xbox Live Gold in Europe. Microsoft wants you to pay 60 a year for it. That's more than $86. Microsoft asks Europeans to pay way more for a service that does less and they don't want to have deals with other companies to bring the same services to Europe. We have on demand services, and we have music streaming services. Xbox Live Gold is just not a great deal for anyone outside of the US and Microsoft does nothing to improve the service for those people. /rant
PG2G said:
Really wanted to see the Adreno 220 in the next phones. Looks like I'll be waiting a while.
Apparently a lot of that is due to licensing issues for distribution or other factors outside of their control. Reading the Nokia deal info, it appears that some of the international licensing that Nokia owns may also be used by MS and many are speculating that includes Livesnap0212 said:Last.FM, MSN, ESPN and Zune Pass, for example.
Then there's also the price point for Xbox Live Gold in Europe. Microsoft wants you to pay 60 a year for it. That's more than $86. Microsoft asks Europeans to pay way more for a service that does less and they don't want to have deals with other companies to bring the same services to Europe. We have on demand services, and we have music streaming services. Xbox Live Gold is just not a great deal for anyone outside of the US and Microsoft does nothing to improve the service for those people. /rant
Cerebral Assassin
Member
snap0212 said:Last.FM, MSN, ESPN and Zune Pass, for example.
Then there's also the price point for Xbox Live Gold in Europe. Microsoft wants you to pay 60 a year for it. That's more than $86. Microsoft asks Europeans to pay way more for a service that does less and they don't want to have deals with other companies to bring the same services to Europe. We have on demand services, and we have music streaming services. Xbox Live Gold is just not a great deal for anyone outside of the US and Microsoft does nothing to improve the service for those people. /rant
I have Last.FM MSN(I think I've seen something to do with that on my dashboard) Zune Pass & Sky Sports available to me in the UK, & who pays MRP on Live Sub? My last subscription(couple of weeks ago) cost £31.99, & the dashboard occasionally has better offers than that on display. Don't get me wrong MS have made some stupid desicions to do with Live Gold( For example I cannot get the BBC Iplayer because MS wish for it to only be available to Gold users which the BBC cannot legally do) Perhaps the lack of options is more to do with the laws in your particular country?
InaudibleWhispa
Member
Have you honestly had to pay full RRP for Xbox Live? It's supposed to be £40 here in the UK and I've never paid above £25-30. Not only from online offers, but dashboard offers too. A couple of weeks ago they knocked 1/3 off the price and gave 800 points free, and last month they gave away a free game with every subscription (either Fable 3, Halo Reach, Kinectimals or Kinect Sports and you got a physical copy, not a digital download) and knocked £10 off the price in the process (So it was £30 for a game and 12 months of live. All of those games are £20-30 in stores right now, so it was essentially free).snap0212 said:Last.FM, MSN, ESPN and Zune Pass, for example.
Then there's also the price point for Xbox Live Gold in Europe. Microsoft wants you to pay 60 a year for it. That's more than $86. Microsoft asks Europeans to pay way more for a service that does less and they don't want to have deals with other companies to bring the same services to Europe. We have on demand services, and we have music streaming services. Xbox Live Gold is just not a great deal for anyone outside of the US and Microsoft does nothing to improve the service for those people. /rant
We also have access to Last.FM, MSN and the Zune Pass. In fact according to the site, Zune Pass is available to France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Austria, Belgium, Ireland, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Mexico, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. And they did make deals with other companies to bring similar services. I can watch Sky TV, for example and according to Wikipedia Portugal and Australia have similar TV exclusive services.
Obviously wherever you live has it bad which sucks, but it isn't like that everywhere but the US. The only thing I don't have access to that Americans do is Netflix and ESPN and that is likely due to Netflix and ESPN rather than Microsoft (since Netflix isn't available outside USA and Canada on any platform).
brotkasten
Member
The Zune Marketplace is available in those countries, that doesn't mean every service is. Check the OP for the breakdown.InaudibleWhispa said:
The Focus is only available in the US and Canada. Oh, and COLORS.Raistlin said:
The term licensing issues gets thrown around a lot by Microsoft, but my guess is that they just don't want to talk about their incompetence when it comes to services in Europe. There definitely are ways to get services like the ones I mentioned on the Xbox 360. Microsoft just doesn't do it for whatever reasons. Microsoft may have problems bringing their own services on Xbox 360s in Europe, but they certainly wouldn't have a problem bringing other services (that do the exact same thing) on the console. Microsoft plays by their own rules: If it can be done without much hassle, we'll do it. Otherwise, we'll just forget about it.Klocker said:
I was going to mention the UK as well, but I wasn't sure if all the services are available or not. The thing is: The majority of countries in which XBL is available have a shitty service compared to a few other countries which do actually have a good service. I bet Microsoft will announce a new service for Xbox Live Gold at this year's E3. I'll also bet 20 that this service will not be available anywhere but the US (and maybe UK). That's the thing. No one expects Microsoft to care about any but these two countries. Take a look at the gaming side; whenever there's a great new feature, promotion or anything on Xbox, it's always US exclusive.Cerebral Assassin said:
That's not important. That's the old argument people threw out when the price for XBL Gold was raised.InaudibleWhispa said:
Well, then the site is lying. This information is not correct.InaudibleWhispa said:
Microsoft will never make a deal with anyone who has a competing service, ever. Microsoft will not let you use Sony's music streaming service or simfy (only available in Germany) or anything like that on your Xbox 360. If Microsoft has a product that's offering a certain functionality, they'll bring it out themselves or they won't have the functionality at all. Due to the fact that bringing out their own product isn't an easy task we don't see a lot of services in Europe.InaudibleWhispa said:
We have services similar to Netflix in Germany. Not quite the same thing, but similar. Microsoft hasn't partnered up with them.InaudibleWhispa said:
I guess I should stop ranting about minor things. I've recently bought an Xbox Live Gold subscription for 18. That's what a 3 month subscription costs over here. For 18 I got 6 months of XBL Gold and two Xbox Live Arcade games (1,200 & 800 Points). It's a great deal and I enjoy having the service. I just see how Microsoft has been treating Europe in the past and hope they'll change something about that in the future. All I can see now is that Europeans with a Windows Phone 7 get treated like second or third class citizens. They've released the phone over here without it being ready for launch and no one wants to talk about the obvious problems Microsoft has when it comes to global availability of their services.
Don't get me wrong, this is nothing that keeps me awake at night, but there's just no way anyone could (or at least should) defend that practice.
------------------------------------
I've also tried Cocktail Flow yesterday and it really seems to be the best example for how an App should look like on Windows Phone 7. The sad thing is that it really shows cocktails only (e.g I have Vodka and Coke.... "Sorry Buddy, there's nothing you can do with that".). I also picked up Kamasutra when it was on sale. If you're lucky enough to not be part of foreveralone.jpg-GAF, you should definitely give it a try. Forget that: Just buy the App and be prepared!
antiquegamer
Member
Let not get derail to Live Gold but I do understand your plight. There's also seems to be rumor about Gold account status on Windows Phone and that multi-player will be available with Mango but only to Gold customers ... I am not sure how well that will go with general public who is not already heavily vested in Microsoft eco-system. On that note though if I can finally use Microsoft points on my phone then please do it already. My local store just put points card for 20% off again!
Still, that doesn't answer why Podcast is limited to US zune only. I am thinking may be it is just problem with infrastructure? Seems kinda strange to no have podcast available in other region. Microsoft is really behind the curve when it come to international market.
On topic of Nokia phone, I think they will be making all kind of Windows Phone from cheap almost feature phone like that use WP7 UI to the premier phone.
Still, that doesn't answer why Podcast is limited to US zune only. I am thinking may be it is just problem with infrastructure? Seems kinda strange to no have podcast available in other region. Microsoft is really behind the curve when it come to international market.
On topic of Nokia phone, I think they will be making all kind of Windows Phone from cheap almost feature phone like that use WP7 UI to the premier phone.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
I can totally understand you ranting. I probably would too if I lived in a country with far fewer of the services available. I was just trying to point out that it isn't only the USA that has those services. But I guess the UK at least seems to get 2nd place attention, so I'm just lucky.snap0212 said:
My guess would be that you have to accept some terms if you want your Podcast to be available on Zune. Considering the Zune Player just recently launched outside of the US, those terms probably included something like "only in the US" instead of "where Zune is available" and now they can't just release them everywhere because that's not what the original plan was. I'm sure it's a pretty minor thing.antiquegamer said:
Anton Sugar
Member
Thread on WP7 at MIX 2011: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427395
Just to get the updates some more visibility!
Just to get the updates some more visibility!
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Some quick NoDo notes:
-I use copy/paste a lot more than I ever thought I would.
-Large videos resume a whole lot quicker. For example video podcasts resume more than twice as fast in my experience.
-Am I really the only one with the autocorrect bug where the misspelled word is placed along with the correction at times?
-apps open up faster, but its still not fast enough compared to Android and iPhone.
-Can't believe they didn't fix the camera settings and the mic bug.
-I still get the music clipping at the and of songs occasionally.
-Marketplace an Zune are completely stable now, bravo!!
-I use copy/paste a lot more than I ever thought I would.
-Large videos resume a whole lot quicker. For example video podcasts resume more than twice as fast in my experience.
-Am I really the only one with the autocorrect bug where the misspelled word is placed along with the correction at times?
-apps open up faster, but its still not fast enough compared to Android and iPhone.
-Can't believe they didn't fix the camera settings and the mic bug.
-I still get the music clipping at the and of songs occasionally.
-Marketplace an Zune are completely stable now, bravo!!
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
what. why =(Tomcat said:
Earl Cazone
Member
shadowcomplex said:
its just his guess. most companies already announced announcements for fall
brotkasten
Member
It's nothing.shadowcomplex said:
HTC exec on Nokia-Microsoft deal: Been there
Samsung Reiterates Support For Windows Phone 7 But Is Waiting On New Handsets
antiquegamer
Member
brotkasten said:
I am not up to date on all the Mobile cpu/gpu so what does the new hardware spec mean? And how are they compare to the recent and upcoming Androids?
As for gyro, yeah optional going to mean not many app will support it. Also read something about screen is now limit to just current spec (ie no low-res screen).
antiquegamer
Member
Oh forgot another thing that really I was really excited is the pinning from inside the app. That's one really cool trick to be able to access specific section of app from home screen. Could this lead to allowing pinning of setting like bluetooth toggle etc?
Oh thanks ^ for the info. So they move up the base line then?
Oh thanks ^ for the info. So they move up the base line then?
antiquegamer
Member
Look like Microsoft thought about the possibilty of fragmentation, and hardware without gyro with use software api + motion sensor to emulate.
http://www.wpcentral.com/motion-sensor-gyroscopes-and-more-mix11
http://www.wpcentral.com/motion-sensor-gyroscopes-and-more-mix11
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
A year behind Android is just about where iPhone is right now. But there is a new version this year, so wp7 will still behind the curve tech wise.
brotkasten
Member
It looks like Sprint is getting the Trophy.
http://www.xda-developers.com/windo...ers-exclusive-first-leaked-pics-of-htc-mazaa/
With a better GPU for games (I think brain_stew said the Adreno 205 is much better than the 200), fixed scrolling performance in 3rd party apps and the lack of native development I don't think a second core would do that much.VanMardigan said:
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
It won't matter when you buy the phone, I'll agree. But being a year behind tech wise at launch and with two year contracts....well you get the idea.
brotkasten
Member
Good point. Didn't think about that, because I usually buy unbranded/unlocked devices.VanMardigan said:
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
If you're a good customer, they let you upgrade after 18 months or so. At least At&t does.
brotkasten
Member
Copernicus said:
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
well done.Copernicus said:
Anton Sugar
Member
God damn...Mango already has me jaded. I want it now.
Since that Mangod thread was DOA, here's what what I posted in it concerning multitasking.
Went through a few session videos and here's what I can understand about their multitasking implementation.
There are four major components of it: fast app switching, background agents, local notifications, and background transfers.
The easiest way to understand this is to compare it to iOS since the two are very similar so that's how I'll be explaining it. Keep in mind that there are some unique differences (for better or worse) between the two which I'll explain along the way.
Fast app switching and local notifications are mostly the same as how it's implemented in iOS. You can back out of an app and instead of the OS clearing it from memory like it does now, Mango will cache it and resume to where you left off if you start the app again.
Local notifications (Microsoft calls it background notifications) are similar as well in that third party apps can now schedule an alarm or reminder at a future time without needing a remote connection to the cloud (which are push notifications).
The next two, background agents and background transfer are where the two start to differ. Background transfer is exactly what it sounds like: foreground apps that are requesting or uploading data can continue to do so after they're exited to the background. Its implementation is very similar to the Marketplace in which downloads are limited to <20 MB over the radio and >20 MB over Wi-Fi. Uploads have a 3 MB limit.
This is actually very different from what Apple did to solve this facet of multitasking. Instead of making a background transfer service as Microsoft did, they allowed apps to request additional time (up to 10 minutes) to finish whatever operation that the app is currently doing. iOS task completion basically solves the same problem of finishing network tasks, but also allows apps to finish local tasks like saving user data. The downside of course is that you're limited to a finite 10 minutes to finish a task, whereas I don't believe Mango's background transfer service has a time limit.
Last one up are the background agents. Everyone knows about audio so I'll skip that and move on to the much more interesting general agents. They've classified two different types of general agents: periodic or idle.
Periodic agents are limited to run every 30 minutes and for a maximum of 15 seconds. Implementation would include apps that don't need long-running network access to sync or quickly download new content.
Example: An RSS or Twitter app could request to download the latest headlines or update your timeline every 30 minutes. iOS 4 can't do anything like this (scheduling of short background tasks) so it's pretty intriguing. You have to actually open up your RSS or Twitter app and let it download new content. Sure push notifications can notify you that you have new content, but they don't actually download them. Kudos to MSFT for expanding on this.
You can also control which apps can run periodic agents or not in Settings.
The other type general agent is the On Idle agent which will only run when you're connected to power and a Wi-Fi network. Microsoft gives the example that the most common scenario for this is during nighttime when its charging and connected to your home Wi-Fi. These aren't limited to just 15 seconds like periodic agents but instead have 10 minutes to finish heavier things like downloading big podcasts or Kindle books.
So, what do I feel that's missing?
Persistent network connections for IRC apps would have been nice. iOS suffers from the same problem but iOS developers kinda/sorta work around this problem by using task completion to keep network (socket) connections open for 10 minutes at a time. Not a solution, but a workaround.
Background VoIP would have been welcome. This again relies on a persistent socket connection. Background location/navigation would have been great too so navigation/GPS apps like Navigon could continue tracking and giving directions while in the background.
These problems can actually be easily solved by opening up on-idle agents to run outside power/Wi-Fi, but I don't think it'll happen any time soon as that kind of defeats the point of what they're trying to do. (save battery life)
Overall, I'm pretty satisfied because they understand that you can't just leave apps fully running in the background and let the battery drain. Sure, I have some reservations but they've made good progress for a 2.0 release.
Went through a few session videos and here's what I can understand about their multitasking implementation.
There are four major components of it: fast app switching, background agents, local notifications, and background transfers.
The easiest way to understand this is to compare it to iOS since the two are very similar so that's how I'll be explaining it. Keep in mind that there are some unique differences (for better or worse) between the two which I'll explain along the way.
Fast app switching and local notifications are mostly the same as how it's implemented in iOS. You can back out of an app and instead of the OS clearing it from memory like it does now, Mango will cache it and resume to where you left off if you start the app again.
Local notifications (Microsoft calls it background notifications) are similar as well in that third party apps can now schedule an alarm or reminder at a future time without needing a remote connection to the cloud (which are push notifications).
The next two, background agents and background transfer are where the two start to differ. Background transfer is exactly what it sounds like: foreground apps that are requesting or uploading data can continue to do so after they're exited to the background. Its implementation is very similar to the Marketplace in which downloads are limited to <20 MB over the radio and >20 MB over Wi-Fi. Uploads have a 3 MB limit.
This is actually very different from what Apple did to solve this facet of multitasking. Instead of making a background transfer service as Microsoft did, they allowed apps to request additional time (up to 10 minutes) to finish whatever operation that the app is currently doing. iOS task completion basically solves the same problem of finishing network tasks, but also allows apps to finish local tasks like saving user data. The downside of course is that you're limited to a finite 10 minutes to finish a task, whereas I don't believe Mango's background transfer service has a time limit.
Last one up are the background agents. Everyone knows about audio so I'll skip that and move on to the much more interesting general agents. They've classified two different types of general agents: periodic or idle.
Periodic agents are limited to run every 30 minutes and for a maximum of 15 seconds. Implementation would include apps that don't need long-running network access to sync or quickly download new content.
Example: An RSS or Twitter app could request to download the latest headlines or update your timeline every 30 minutes. iOS 4 can't do anything like this (scheduling of short background tasks) so it's pretty intriguing. You have to actually open up your RSS or Twitter app and let it download new content. Sure push notifications can notify you that you have new content, but they don't actually download them. Kudos to MSFT for expanding on this.
You can also control which apps can run periodic agents or not in Settings.
The other type general agent is the On Idle agent which will only run when you're connected to power and a Wi-Fi network. Microsoft gives the example that the most common scenario for this is during nighttime when its charging and connected to your home Wi-Fi. These aren't limited to just 15 seconds like periodic agents but instead have 10 minutes to finish heavier things like downloading big podcasts or Kindle books.
So, what do I feel that's missing?
Persistent network connections for IRC apps would have been nice. iOS suffers from the same problem but iOS developers kinda/sorta work around this problem by using task completion to keep network (socket) connections open for 10 minutes at a time. Not a solution, but a workaround.
Background VoIP would have been welcome. This again relies on a persistent socket connection. Background location/navigation would have been great too so navigation/GPS apps like Navigon could continue tracking and giving directions while in the background.
These problems can actually be easily solved by opening up on-idle agents to run outside power/Wi-Fi, but I don't think it'll happen any time soon as that kind of defeats the point of what they're trying to do. (save battery life)
Overall, I'm pretty satisfied because they understand that you can't just leave apps fully running in the background and let the battery drain. Sure, I have some reservations but they've made good progress for a 2.0 release.
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll