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Windows Phone 7 |OT|

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Stumpokapow said:
I mean you've basically created an invincible argument. You don't care about it, you can't imagine anyone else cares about it, the fact that everyone else views it as a marketing point doesn't mean anything because it's "just marketers", the fact that other more successful phones emphasize it doesn't mean anything. Unfortunately, I can't even argue that the phone's success or lack thereof will demonstrate anything, because you've already sealed that up by saying that if it fails, it'll fail because of a myriad of other problems. Even if you were wrong, there's no way we'd be able to convince you.

I value video chatting, both from my computer and from my phone. My relatives all do. My girlfriend and her relatives all do. I don't think Apple crows incessantly about FaceTime because it's a checkbox, I think they do it because it's something people are interested in. I think the same is true for Microsoft. I don't think Microsoft bought Skype for voice, I think they bought it for their whole value proposition, which very notably includes video. Every time Skype partners with anyone, the emphasis is on video chat. Again, your assertion is that it's just bragging rights and no real people care, but I find it very hard to believe when you consider the sheer diversity of companies who have made this a centerpiece of their offerings. A front facing camera is increasingly a standard feature of a smartphone, and they opt out from providing one at their own risk. The costs are also marginal, particularly if the front-facing phone is cheaper than the rear-facing phone (which is the case with the Galaxy Nexus).
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It's evidently a phone for Europe. Most people in Europe won't see a front facing camera or video-chat as a marketable feature anymore after it failed in 2005 or 6 or whenever they were introduced the first time.
 
no FFC shouldn't be a surprise. this isn't the 900 series, this is a mid range phone from nokia. regardless of how much they hype it up.
 
lGckI.gif


http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/26/nokia-lumia-800-vs-nokia-n9-the-tale-of-the-tape/
 
brotkasten said:
Actually, they're totally right on the WiFi. The N9 supports 802.11a and the 800 doesn't, which makes the N9 clearly better.
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no i was gonna say engaget is still sour over the fact that the meego is no more.... but i guess the wifi makes more sense.

edit: does anyone know what phones will be out by the end of this year?
 
unrenowned said:
Where are those mythical FFC'ing people?
In my life I've never seen anyone do video calls on their cell.
Click to expand...

Every girl I know with an iPhone loves to hold out their phone and take pictures of themselves and their friends/boyfriends/kids.
 
If they release a burgundy Lumia in the US, God, that thing will be bought with the quickness. The lack of a FF camera doesn't bother me at all. I've had one on my Evo from the very beginning and can count the times I've used it on one hand.
 
Man...when are they announcing the next batch of phones? Samsung, HTC, and Nokia have all announced their upcoming phones so how long do you think we'll go before a new batch?

I really want one but at this time nothing appeals to me or isn't coming for the US market. Was thinking of importing an Omnia 7 but do you think at this point it's too late to get such a last gen phone?
 
unrenowned said:
Where are those mythical FFC'ing people?
In my life I've never seen anyone do video calls on their cell.
Click to expand...
FFC is more for taking self pics than for vid chatting I would guess.. though my friends do like to FaceTime occasionally
 
Fjolle said:
It's evidently a phone for Europe. Most people in Europe won't see a front facing camera or video-chat as a marketable feature anymore after it failed in 2005 or 6 or whenever they were introduced the first time.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the sweeping generalisations about Euro Land. If you launch a half assed service at a time when 3G is spotty, charge ridiculous prices for video calls over the network and don't allow VOIP services then it's unlikely to take off is it? Applying 7 year old logic against the current scenario is ridiculous. Not everyone will need to use an FFC but there are still plenty of people who will, Euroland or otherwise.
 
On a side note while MS just purchased skype I've always been of the idea that people were going to be disappointed with how fast they got around to doing something with it. I don't expect a big MS Skype push till this time next year. I hope I'm proven wrong, but I've felt this all along.

Biggest + of the 800 has to be the camera for me at least. Clearly a step above the rest of the phones in terms of quality.

Still I get why so many people were hoping big for this device. Yet despite this for everyone that already had a phone I always wondered why a ton of people wanted a new device already. Maybe I'm just not as tech crazed as some people are, but once we all saw Mango ran fine on the launch phones I sort of checked out of the phone game. Maybe it has to do with how the US handhelds phones and contracts though. Just not worth it to me to upgrade when I'm in contract.
 
OriginalThinking said:
Thanks for the sweeping generalisations about Euro Land. If you launch a half assed service at a time when 3G is spotty, charge ridiculous prices for video calls over the network and don't allow VOIP services then it's unlikely to take off is it? Applying 7 year old logic against the current scenario is ridiculous. Not everyone will need to use an FFC but there are still plenty of people who will, Euroland or otherwise.
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How do you imagine that a ffc on the Nokia 800 would save that?

Wouldn't they need something like video call support or the existence of a skype app?
 
is there a link where microsoft talks about the design philosophy of wp7's homescreen.
I think someone posted it here some months ago :(
 
To bicker back and forth about whether a front facing camera is important or not is silly. To some its a valuable feature, to others its meaningless. The real question is just how far the feature is valued in the general market. How much use does the feature get for those that do have it? Daily? Weekly? Once in a blur moon? Personally, it'd be rarely. But even I can admit, I'd rather have it than not. But it's not even close to being a feature that determines whether or not I purchase a phone.
 
Fjolle said:
How do you imagine that a ffc on the Nokia 800 would save that?

Wouldn't they need something like video call support or the existence of a skype app?
Click to expand...

I'm not really debating whether or not a lack of ffc is the be all and end all of the phone and whether the lack of it will significantly affect sales. What I did take task with was your somewhat absurd generalisation on how Europeans view video calling. You conveniently ignored the fact that your argument was that the phone was made for Europe and that video calling had failed in Europe 7 years ago, so people in Europe aren't interested in video calling anymore. I rebutted pointing out the reasons for this failure and that the landscape for video calling and smartphones has greatly changed within this time period and your logic no longer applies. After I pointed this out you changed the direction of your argument to Windows Phone 7 having a lack of video calling apps. Nice sidestep.
 
Were these already posted? Nokia's drive app looks pretty great and is well implemented in the WP7 style.

Lumia 710
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/nokia-announces-lumia-710-windows-phone
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/nokia-lumia-710-video-showcase-video

Lumia 800
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/nokia-announces-lumia-800-windows-phone
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/nokia-lumia-800-video-showcase

Hopefully some more concrete US news happens soon... It's sooo hard to restrain myself from going with another phone (Focus S or iPhone 4S) ugh!

PS: FFC isn't a must, but it is def. a selling feature that is a missed opportunity. Skype via the iPhone 4 allowed my grandma to see my cousin 1,500 miles away on her 90th birthday as we drove her to one of her many surprises.
 
OriginalThinking said:
I'm not really debating whether or not a lack of ffc is the be all and end all of the phone and whether the lack of it will significantly affect sales. What I did take task with was your somewhat absurd generalisation on how Europeans view video calling. You conveniently ignored the fact that your argument was that the phone was made for Europe and that video calling had failed in Europe 7 years ago, so people in Europe aren't interested in video calling anymore. I rebutted pointing out the reasons for this failure and that the landscape for video calling and smartphones has greatly changed within this time period and your logic no longer applies. After I pointed this out you changed the direction of your argument to Windows Phone 7 having a lack of video calling apps. Nice sidestep.
Click to expand...
No. What i tried to say was that you can't market a phone here on video-calling. Then you changed direction and talked about why video-calling failed, and i asked you why you would think that a nokia 800 with FFC would make video-calling un-failed (especially without video-calling...) :)
 
Now that the Nokia Hype Train has passed and there's no forseeable release date in the US, I've jumped on the Samsung Focus S Hype Train.

Any news? mainly release, reviews, etc.
 
So I am seriously interested in switching from iPhone to Windows phone. I am curious - what about all my music I have bought from iTunes? Will that transfer over somehow and if so - how do I do it?

Any help would be appreciated =).
 
Fjolle said:
No. What i tried to say was that you can't market a phone here on video-calling. Then you changed direction and talked about why video-calling failed, and i asked you why you would think that a nokia 800 with FFC would make video-calling un-failed (especially without video-calling...) :)
Click to expand...

Dude really. Need I quote you?

Fjolle said:
It's evidently a phone for Europe. Most people in Europe won't see a front facing camera or video-chat as a marketable feature anymore after it failed in 2005 or 6 or whenever they were introduced the first time.
Click to expand...

You said it wasn't a marketable feature based on the fact that it failed 7 years ago. That argument is nonsense, and I explained why it was nonsense. Now it is marketable as a feature. See the iPhone. I mean Apple marketed the hell out of it for a reason.

Then you said well it wouldn't matter anyway because there are no apps. So you changed the terms of the discussion. Your initial argument was it failed 7 years ago and therefore people in Europe don't see it as marketable anymore. When I pointed out that this was no longer valid, you came up with something different (and perfectly reasonable) which was that there are no apps which support it. If that had been your initial argument then I would have agreed. But it wasn't. Your argument was that video calling wasn't marketable to Europeans because it failed 7 years ago. Totally different arguments. Not the same thing. You see?

Now I personally don't think ffc will make a huge difference in sales, but there is a market for it. That market may only be 1 in 20 people considering buying a new phone. 5% to you and me may not seem a lot, but a 5% increase in sales of say 10 million is a large number. That acquisition cost has to be balanced with the cost of buying the part for an FFC. As for app support how about Tango? http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42104/video-windows-phone-7-tango It's supposed to be launched at the start of November, before the Nokia hits the shops.

So lets recap here. Do I think that the lack of video calling is a major hamper to sales on this phone? No.

Do I think that there is a market for video calling in Europe? Yes. Do I think that video calling is very different to 7 years ago? Yes. Do I think that market is huge? No. Do I think that marketing video calling as a feature is pointless in Europe? No.

I hope my position is now clear. Phew.
 
Kai said:
So I am seriously interested in switching from iPhone to Windows phone. I am curious - what about all my music I have bought from iTunes? Will that transfer over somehow and if so - how do I do it?

Any help would be appreciated =).
Click to expand...

iTunes has been DRM free for a few years now so it should all work.

Download the Zune software and try it out. You can use it side by side with iTunes if you want.
 
D4Danger said:
iTunes has been DRM free for a few years now so it should all work.

Download the Zune software and try it out. You can use it side by side with iTunes if you want.
Click to expand...

Oh is the Nokia music app just Zune reskinned or something?
 
Kai said:
So I am seriously interested in switching from iPhone to Windows phone. I am curious - what about all my music I have bought from iTunes? Will that transfer over somehow and if so - how do I do it?

Any help would be appreciated =).
Click to expand...

The Zune software populated it's music library with my iTunes library. Transferred to my phone no problem as well. Very easy. You could actually download the Zune software and give it a try.

Edit: Beaten
 
Kai said:
Oh is the Nokia music app just Zune reskinned or something?
Click to expand...
Nokia Music is Nokia's own music service. They've had a music store for years so they got all the labels and stuff ready.

I don't really know how it works but looks like you can listen and download music for free (at least those mix tape things).
 
Kai said:
Oh is the Nokia music app just Zune reskinned or something?
Click to expand...

I think the Nokia stuff is just a service.

You can use Nokia Music if you want. You could also just continue to buy your music on iTunes, use Amazon or download from other service that gives you DRM free music. It's really up to you.

The Zune software is used to sync content to and from your Windows Phone. You don't have to use any of the Zune services but you do need to use the Zune software to sync content.
 
So what is the consensus of people switching from iOS? I really love Nokia hardware and the new phone looks amazing - FYI I have an iPhone 4 not the 4s...

Anything I will miss?
 
Kai said:
So what is the consensus of people switching from iOS? I really love Nokia hardware and the new phone looks amazing - FYI I have an iPhone 4 not the 4s...

Anything I will miss?
Click to expand...

Probably the massive selection of apps, although WP7s collection is growing quickly enough.
 
I've been on the edge as to whether or not getting a Windows Phone 7 for my next phone purchase. I know the platform doesn't have the best app selection so far and that probably won't change in a while but for the apps I want I already have an iPod and iPad for those and it would feel wasteful getting a third iOS device.

I'm looking for a somewhat high end phone but am not willing to pay in the 400-500 euro price range. I've seen stuff like the Optimus 7 listed for around 200 which sounds ideal, but I'm wondering if I should wait for possible Holiday sales or these Nokia phones.
 
MagniHarvald said:
Why does WP suck for ringtones? Not only did we have to wait for Mango to get them, for calls only, but the way they are managed is the biggest clusterfuck I've ever seen. I've been trying to get a ringtone on my phone for the past hour, what the fuck?

Why are there so many restrictions? Why can't we just get any song from our library and set it as a ringtone.

It pains me to think that my old featurephone from six years ago handled ringtones better.
Click to expand...
Is it still like this?

You can't just set a song to be your ringtone?
 
Korey said:
Is it still like this?

You can't just set a song to be your ringtone?
Click to expand...

You guys must have never used an iPhone either? Pretty sure the way wp7 handles it is really close to how Apple does.
 
brotkasten said:
Hahaha, what the fuck, Engadget?

Why isn't the SoC and price on the 800 green? Why is the exact same WiFi on the N9 green?
Click to expand...
You should be happy they didn't green the section that said MeeGo also. =P

As for FFC, all the people I know with kids, grandkids think it's a must have feature.
 
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