Steelyuhas
Member
The new Outlook is a bright spot, great app. Hopefully they have dark theme for it.
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Windows Phone 8.1 |OT| Update 1
- Thread starter brotkasten
- Start date
At the very least, what the current Phone preview builds show is that there's a ton of potential in the new app model.
When you look at Phone 8.1 apps, they were all limited in the same ways. Xbox Music is the worst offender, but considering that it's the same team (or similar) that built Zune and previous versions of Music apps, I have to believe that its failings can be mostly blamed on the app platform and API maturity rather than the team building it.
The new Outlook app though? It's certainly buggy and has some design issues to work through, but it's not limited or buggy in the same way as Xbox Music. It shows a lot of promise that maybe, just maybe, the Universal App platform will be what has been sorely missing for years.
When you look at Phone 8.1 apps, they were all limited in the same ways. Xbox Music is the worst offender, but considering that it's the same team (or similar) that built Zune and previous versions of Music apps, I have to believe that its failings can be mostly blamed on the app platform and API maturity rather than the team building it.
The new Outlook app though? It's certainly buggy and has some design issues to work through, but it's not limited or buggy in the same way as Xbox Music. It shows a lot of promise that maybe, just maybe, the Universal App platform will be what has been sorely missing for years.
brotkasten
Member
What really irks me about Xbox Music is that there was no reason to pull it out of the OS and make it a standalone app in 8.1. Yes, it could be updated independently from the OS, but most of the time they spent updating it to catch up to the old version and fix very annoying bugs, even after the OS launched. It made absolutely no sense. I don't even use Windows Phone anymore, so someone needs to tell me if it's now in any way better than it was on 7.5/8.
brotkasten
Member
Also, if API and the app model are the reason on Windows Phone, what's the excuse for the Android and iOS versions? They're just as terrible. So bad, it made me not renew my subscription (which is essentially free to me) and go with Spotify instead. Same team handling those apps?
I'm sure that was worth it, now that W10 is around the corner.
I'm sure that was worth it, now that W10 is around the corner.
Yep, it's one of those decisions that seemed to make sense at the time - pull things out to let them be updated faster - but in retrospect it was the completely wrong decision. The app platform simply wasn't there to handle it.
Which, in a way, was probably the wakeup call that the app platform team needed. They probably thought all along that they were "fine" and could adequately support most scenarios developers needed, and that any apps lacking in quality were the app developers fault.
But once you have many internal teams failing to make anything on Windows Phone remotely near the quality of iOS or Android (not just Xbox Music, but Lync, Skype, and others are far worse on Windows Phoen too), it forced the platform team to have a wakeup call and admit, maybe it's me?
dLMN8R / lastflowers / anyone:
Is there a way to submit feedback for W10 phones from a PC? The app barely is working on the phone so it's difficult but I would love to contribute. I realize via phone probably submits certain diagnostic information in addition to the reports.
Is there a way to submit feedback for W10 phones from a PC? The app barely is working on the phone so it's difficult but I would love to contribute. I realize via phone probably submits certain diagnostic information in addition to the reports.
You can use the Insider Answers forum for general feedback / questions and User Voice for feature suggestions
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Ya I have been watching some hands of impression of the new preview. This OS is too far behind the PC version in terms of quality. I wonder if they will actually speed up the process to release it along side with Windows 10 PC this summer. But its hard to tell.
Yeah, the desktop version feels much better. I know there is a long way to go and things will change like some of the ugly banners for say when uninstalling an app as well as other polish. The extra black bar at the bottom of things like the people hub and contact cards is really annoying.
Need to give some feedback!
The new Map app is pretty decent so far.
Need to give some feedback!
The new Map app is pretty decent so far.
Sky Interloper
Member
Hello, everyone.
So, I decided to take the bullet and install the preview on my 820 as an experiment for the weekend. The OS is not completely useless, but it is certainly not final.
Plenty of transitions are painfully slow (App switching being an egregious example) and the new universal apps are underwhelming at this point, but it is understandable as it is still a technical preview. Also, currently there is a mismatch of both new and old style menus and characteristics, producing a jarring experience.
Nevertheless, barring the somewhat usual crash and black screen, potential is pretty good, so any judgement of the overall system now is pointless (Of course, feedback was given when the phone would let me). I don't know how the desktop is faring, but based on this build it wouldn't surprise me to find Windows 10 mobile later than its counterpart on PC.
Currently I'm going back to 8.1, but if the experience becomes smooth enough I may switch again.
So, I decided to take the bullet and install the preview on my 820 as an experiment for the weekend. The OS is not completely useless, but it is certainly not final.
Plenty of transitions are painfully slow (App switching being an egregious example) and the new universal apps are underwhelming at this point, but it is understandable as it is still a technical preview. Also, currently there is a mismatch of both new and old style menus and characteristics, producing a jarring experience.
Nevertheless, barring the somewhat usual crash and black screen, potential is pretty good, so any judgement of the overall system now is pointless (Of course, feedback was given when the phone would let me). I don't know how the desktop is faring, but based on this build it wouldn't surprise me to find Windows 10 mobile later than its counterpart on PC.
Currently I'm going back to 8.1, but if the experience becomes smooth enough I may switch again.
So for now is back to the negativity surrounding the health of the app ecosystem, I guess.
Also, this.
No wonder Windows RT machines are dead for regular users as those computers are not getting Windows 10.
oh god, please yes
Flagship phone slips into 2017. Maybe if they wait long enough Samsung will destroy the Galaxy brand themselves.
frontieruk
Member
Wow the preview is buggy lol, but being able to pin major system and personalisation settings directly to the start screen is nice, is rotation lock new? The email client is nice as well.
Anton Sugar
Member
I'm assuming Cortana is supposed to be in the new preview build, right? The blog doesn't mention anything about the app missing.
My Cortana app is missing and the Search button does nothing.
My Cortana app is missing and the Search button does nothing.
frontieruk
Member
Yes she is there, and working on my 635, but the os is laggy as hell so may actually not be registering your presses
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
lol
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, my app wasn't even there :-\ I was on an 830. Search button vibrates the phone but nothing happens.
No matter--I just reverted to 8.1 (looks like the W10 update, ironically, fixed my inability to revert). Can't wait to see where W10 ends up but I'll just put it on my 635 to play with it. I wonder if they're actually going to be able to release it this year--still seems pretty early.
EDIT: Unrelated, but is there a way to manually pick borders/border types in 6tag? I'd like to post some 16x9 photos with a white background/border but have no idea how to.
Has there been any word from Microsoft on if they plan to be more aggressive with getting apps going forward into Windows 10? I had an HD7 back in the day and I absolutely loved it.
The problem is that, instagram and snapchat are two of my most used apps and I can't really go without them, so I'm stuck in this this dark Android hell. It is the absolute worst.
The problem is that, instagram and snapchat are two of my most used apps and I can't really go without them, so I'm stuck in this this dark Android hell. It is the absolute worst.
I was going to say that Instagram has an official app but it's shit and has been left to rot.
Anton Sugar
Member
Pretty sure 6tag has parity with Instagram--at one point, it even had more features/options than the official one.
Snapchat killed 6snap, though--that app also had more functionality than the official one.
I really hope MS gets aggressive (again), not that it did us much good in the past.
Snapchat killed 6snap, though--that app also had more functionality than the official one.
I really hope MS gets aggressive (again), not that it did us much good in the past.
Well what I'm hoping for is that the (seemingly substantially better) app platform will make it easier for Android and iOS apps to make it to Windows Phone. Not the fact that they're universal - most missing Phone apps won't be useful at all on a Desktop or Laptop PC - but the fact that (hopefully) the major performance and reliability issues will be resolved.
Also specs, too.
To a certain degree, they do matter for app experiences, and WP's growing problem is how to solve the third party app issue with phones that are barely better than the middle of the range Android phones.
Porting to WP doesn't magically make the app run smoother.
The pillar that WP stands on now is having official Microsoft apps run on low-end hardware. I'm surprised how well Skype can handle a video call on a Lumia 520.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
PANIC: Nokia Weighs Sale of Maps Business to Focus on Networks
Pretty sad if true. Here remains my favourite mapping solution. Windows Phone will be SOL if Microsoft were to be locked out of the deal.
Pretty sad if true. Here remains my favourite mapping solution. Windows Phone will be SOL if Microsoft were to be locked out of the deal.
I think another important thing is that MS decided to make W10 a free upgrade. That should (at least in theory) mean that a massive number of people will have access to store apps, which plainly wasn't the case with W8 & 8.1 since the sales were comparatively low. And that you can use them windowed might even mean that people are more likely to use store apps.
That should also mean that you'll have a larger number of people bitching that the apps that they are using on Android/iOS are not available on Windows. And when a large enough number of people bitch companies and developers will get off their arse, especially when it's simple to make their apps work on the platform, as you say.
As counter-intuitive as it is, I think the fact that the desktop Windows is free is the only thing that can save the phone ecosystem.
That's a healthy attitude.
But I think that there's a genuine chance that things will improve with W10 - a much better one than there was with WP8. With WP8 the app situation improving almost solely relied on WP sales improving drastically. Something that didn't happen because they fucked up their flagship strategy and in no small part because of the app situation being what it was (and is). Since W8 wasn't a success in terms of sales and since universal apps weren't around, the desktop version of Windows had no impact on Windows Phone. Other than perhaps a negative one, because of perception.
W10 is an actual chance for things to improve. Does that mean that Windows will catch up to iOS or Android any time soon? Nope. But it could mean that the gap gets smaller and that the reason not to buy a Windows device because your favourite apps aren't available could for a big part disappear.
Of course, even the universal app thing and W10 being free won't be enough for that to happen. It will also require another big, aggressive push by Microsoft to get developers on board.
From my perspective, developers are not going to get fully on board...mostly because the more prominent ones have grown up in the American apple culture, of window$ sux.
Snapchat is never going to arrive. Instragram will hardly be updated.
But for me thats fine. I have my banking app (barclays), rail times (UK Trains), twitter (aeris, twitter), package tracker, sat nav (here drive), transit (here transit), media player (plex) and MS Ecosystem apps. The only one i really want is Sky Go/BT Sport, but I have workarounds.
My expectation is:
- MS creates some outstanding experiences across phone, desktop, xbox e.g. notifications, sms replys, skyper, office, one drive, maps etc.
- This will supplemented by some serious windows developers - Aeris, Mytube, Metrotube, PLEX, whatsapp, 6apps
- Major corps will make a token effort - twitter, facebook (although twitter still doesnt support W8.1 and its infinite snap states)
- Web browser should fill the 90% of the rest
Hopefully:
- This will be followed with some unique windows experiences across them all (i want to see a notification on xbox when my door bell rings with video)
- MS Band will be improved drastically in terms of appearance and integration
Snapchat is never going to arrive. Instragram will hardly be updated.
But for me thats fine. I have my banking app (barclays), rail times (UK Trains), twitter (aeris, twitter), package tracker, sat nav (here drive), transit (here transit), media player (plex) and MS Ecosystem apps. The only one i really want is Sky Go/BT Sport, but I have workarounds.
My expectation is:
- MS creates some outstanding experiences across phone, desktop, xbox e.g. notifications, sms replys, skyper, office, one drive, maps etc.
- This will supplemented by some serious windows developers - Aeris, Mytube, Metrotube, PLEX, whatsapp, 6apps
- Major corps will make a token effort - twitter, facebook (although twitter still doesnt support W8.1 and its infinite snap states)
- Web browser should fill the 90% of the rest
Hopefully:
- This will be followed with some unique windows experiences across them all (i want to see a notification on xbox when my door bell rings with video)
- MS Band will be improved drastically in terms of appearance and integration
José Mourinho
cocknose
I don't see the situation getting much better to be honest. Mainly because despite the potentially huge number of users being on Windows 10 -- as compared to 8/8.1 -- the vast majority of those users would be desktop I imagine, and I don't think that's the app demographic so to speak.
I can see some minor improvements. For example, the other day I was looking for BBC iPlayer in the store, which of course, doesn't exist. They have a fully functional Xbox One app so I can see how that would make its way over to everything else if all they need to do is configure the UI for the various platforms. So the incentive is certainly there for developers with an app already on one of the current windows platforms. I mean they might as well reach a bunch of new people with minimal effort. I just don't see where the incentive is for app developers who haven't bothered up to this point.
Good points from both of you.
I think there's a few key differences now though:
- store apps can be run windowed in 10, so I suspect that the take up of them will increase since they'll feel a lot more like traditional desktop apps
- Microsoft is pushing hard to have W10 adopted in the enterprise and I expect them to make inroads there compared to 8/8.1 with the start menu being back in some form
- it will be much easier to get your existing apps run on W, and you won't have to even adjust your UX to suit the platform and its users (the much maligned hamburger etc. is making sure of that)
While I agree that most desktop users won't be using store apps, I think it will be significantly more that right now. And there will be significantly more of them, too. I also think there will be a significantly higher demand for simple games with the type of users that W10 will attract.
I don't expect Windows to catch up to iOS any time soon if ever in terms of app ecosystem, but I do think that the chance for a significant improvement is a lot better now than it was with Windows Phone 8.
At the end of the day it's all about numbers. The number of customers and the amount of money you can make. No developer or company will ignore customers and money, not long term.
I think there's a few key differences now though:
- store apps can be run windowed in 10, so I suspect that the take up of them will increase since they'll feel a lot more like traditional desktop apps
- Microsoft is pushing hard to have W10 adopted in the enterprise and I expect them to make inroads there compared to 8/8.1 with the start menu being back in some form
- it will be much easier to get your existing apps run on W, and you won't have to even adjust your UX to suit the platform and its users (the much maligned hamburger etc. is making sure of that)
While I agree that most desktop users won't be using store apps, I think it will be significantly more that right now. And there will be significantly more of them, too. I also think there will be a significantly higher demand for simple games with the type of users that W10 will attract.
I don't expect Windows to catch up to iOS any time soon if ever in terms of app ecosystem, but I do think that the chance for a significant improvement is a lot better now than it was with Windows Phone 8.
At the end of the day it's all about numbers. The number of customers and the amount of money you can make. No developer or company will ignore customers and money, not long term.
brotkasten
Member
Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 30 Min.Vor 30 Minuten
I will soon publish the most important article I've ever written. Sit down. This one is going to be epic.
Pen loop article.
Anton Sugar
Member
Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 30 Min.Vor 30 Minuten
I will soon publish the most important article I've ever written. Sit down. This one is going to be epic.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 30 Min.Vor 30 Minuten
I will soon publish the most important article I've ever written. Sit down. This one is going to be epic.
hmmm
Criticism or praises? I cant tell.
Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 30 Min.Vor 30 Minuten
I will soon publish the most important article I've ever written. Sit down. This one is going to be epic.
WP10 cancelled.
WP launcher for Android confirmed.
As silly as the twitter spat between Nilay and Jean Paul Gasse (or something)
Not familiar with that.
.
Lol, wtf. Makes me not like Nilay even more than I already did. What a jackass, haha
José Mourinho
cocknose
It's funny because I noticed his spiked bracelet effort in the review and thought it looked like something a 15 year old alternative kid would wear. But each to their own and all that. Nilay made himself look like a bellend.
Just bought my first smartphone ever and I chose a Lumia 640. Pretty much every fact I could come up with contradicted with that decision:
- I own a PS4, so an Xperia for Remote play would haven been better
- I'm interested in titles like Terra Battle, Monster Strike and some of the Square-Enix stuff
- I don't care for Cortana
buuuut...I absolutely adore the UI. God damn. It's just beautiful.
Hope the app situation will get better in time though, need some Terra Battle in my life.
- I own a PS4, so an Xperia for Remote play would haven been better
- I'm interested in titles like Terra Battle, Monster Strike and some of the Square-Enix stuff
- I don't care for Cortana
buuuut...I absolutely adore the UI. God damn. It's just beautiful.
Hope the app situation will get better in time though, need some Terra Battle in my life.
Sky Interloper
Member
Any idea what's this about? Twitter is blocked at work.Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 30 Min.Vor 30 Minuten
I will soon publish the most important article I've ever written. Sit down. This one is going to be epic.
Considering that fan-fiction tier review I'm not surprised.
Oh, it was about the Surface pen loop.
Alas, even when he's trying to be silly, he never manages to be as silly as Gruber on a regular day.