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[Angry Grimace]

The problem is the characters in Honey and Clover don't feel like real people >=[ /bitter

Annnd I'm done.

The next anime I see where any character feels real will be the first.

 

[Apath]

The next anime I see where any character feels real will be the first.

Believable enough to make me not get annoyed every time I see them. 99% of characters you just go "It's a cartoon and they're entertaining."

 

[Shouta]

Well, older and longer series tend to feature characters that are a lot "realer" than you get nowadays. Then there's the genre issue too, heh.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I guess it's just a perception issue, but the best characters in any fictional medium for me aren't necessarily "real." I guess I just don't see it as a prerequisite for a character to be good.

What I really want out of anime are characters that don't actively annoy the shit out of me every opportunity they have. :lol

 

[Apath]

I guess it's just a perception issue, but the best characters in any fictional medium for me aren't necessarily "real." I guess I just don't see it as a prerequisite for a character to be good.

What I really want out of anime are characters that don't actively annoy the shit out of me every opportunity they have. :lol

*shrug* The show just doesn't click with me. I'm a little more critical with it because I'm just so disappointed considering how many people seem to be recommending it.

 

[mAcOdIn]

What I really want out of anime are characters that don't actively annoy the shit out of me every opportunity they have. :lol

My take as well, especially considering that in most cases "real" isn't fun. I usually would like a relative representation of realness from a character but not overwhelmingly so, because usually, again, that'd be boring.

But of course I guess you could attack an individuals perception of "real." There have been a lot of individuals throughout history that if I had not known they were real as fact I'd not believe you if you told me their story, so I guess the most unrealistic aspect of television is getting that many extraordinary people in one place and time to the point uniqueness is no longer so unique.

 

[Shouta]

It's not so much being realistic that's the issue. It's that being more realistic means that the character has had time to develop a personality that's watchable and isn't simply a running gag over and over again. I mean you can have a character that's great and not be realistic but it's often harder to achieve.

 

[Jex]

Well, older and longer series tend to feature characters that are a lot "realer" than you get nowadays. Then there's the genre issue too, heh.

I was just reading how Satoshi Kon was a big fan of shojo manga, presumably because he though the characters were more interesting, and describing his hate for Shonen Jump stuff as stories about "guts, endeavor and sweat"

 

[Apath]

It's not so much being realistic that's the issue. It's that being more realistic means that the character has had time to develop a personality that's watchable and isn't simply a running gag over and over again. I mean you can have a character that's great and not be realistic but it's often harder to achieve.

Sums up how I feel into words perfectly.

I was just reading how Satoshi Kon was a big fan of shojo manga, presumably because he though the characters were more interesting, and describing his hate for Shonen Jump stuff as stories about "guts, endeavor and sweat"

That's kind of how I am. I read Shoujo for the characters and Shonen for the plot.

 

[mAcOdIn]

It's not so much being realistic that's the issue. It's that being more realistic means that the character has had time to develop a personality that's watchable and isn't simply a running gag over and over again. I mean you can have a character that's great and not be realistic but it's often harder to achieve.

I think people should just take things as they are. I mean, just browsing Neogaf shows me a lot of people that I'd find unrealistic. I mean, seriously, some of these threads that people make I assumed would be questions or statements I'd never encounter, some of the murders I hear about are as insane as I can imagine, reality is stranger than fiction. So suddenly, some of these tropes in television no longer seem so absurd to me anymore. And when I do see someone post a weird ass topic here I no longer question where that character development was, I wasn't there for it but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, so a weird poster is just a weird poster. But I love you all all the same weird posters!

Edit: PSA of the day, Genshiken season 2 box set, 13 April 2010, buy it!

 

[selig]

shes the reason why i couldnt stand watchting the show for more than 4 episodes...

 

[Angry Grimace]

I think people should just take things as they are. I mean, just browsing Neogaf shows me a lot of people that I'd find unrealistic. I mean, seriously, some of these threads that people make I assumed would be questions or statements I'd never encounter, some of the murders I hear about are as insane as I can imagine, reality is stranger than fiction. So suddenly, some of these tropes in television no longer seem so absurd to me anymore. And when I do see someone post a weird ass topic here I no longer question where that character development was, I wasn't there for it but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, so a weird poster is just a weird poster. But I love you all all the same weird posters!

Edit: PSA of the day, Genshiken season 2 box set, 13 April 2010, buy it!

GAF has it's weirdos, but I have yet to see a GAF thread where the poster complains how annoying it is that he has to deal with a group of 4-6 beautiful women whose advances he's refused 24 straight times because he's too hung up about the one girl he's always really liked but been too shy to ask her out for the past three years of high school (who also likes him).

 

[mAcOdIn]

GAF has it's weirdos, but I have yet to see a GAF thread where the poster complains how annoying it is that he has to deal with a group of 4-6 beautiful women whose advances he's refused 24 straight times because he's too hung up about the one girl he's always really liked but been too shy to ask her out for the past three years of high school (who also likes him).

Ah, but if I did see a thread like that and not "So I was inspecting my crap, does yours look like this as well" I'd probably be relieved.

Not like it matters, I mean, harem shit is as out there as shonen shit as far as I'm concerned. Fantasy is fantasy, whether it involves giant robots, vampires, death gods, lesbian alien invaders, or 4 girls that happen to like one indecisive guy(oddly enough this also happens to be the one with the most chance of being realistic lol).

 

[Apath]

GAF has it's weirdos, but I have yet to see a GAF thread where the poster complains how annoying it is that he has to deal with a group of 4-6 beautiful women whose advances he's refused 24 straight times because he's too hung up about the one girl he's always really liked but been too shy to ask her out for the past three years of high school (who also likes him).

:lol
As long as you can empathize with the character, how ordinary or extraordinary their characteristics are are irrelevant. That's what I mean when I say realistic -- not that I could imagine the character walking down the street or being my next door neighbor.

shes the reason why i couldnt stand watchting the show for more than 4 episodes...

Yep. It's like being bukkaked by 500 virgins and pedophiles.

 

[Shouta]

I was just reading how Satoshi Kon was a big fan of shojo manga, presumably because he though the characters were more interesting, and describing his hate for Shonen Jump stuff as stories about "guts, endeavor and sweat"

Eh, I find Shoujo manga to have its own character ruts myself. I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a lot of men in Japan reading Shoujo manga so it may be just that Kon wasn't really familiar with it like he would be Shounen stuff.

 

[Apath]

Eh, I find Shoujo manga to have its own character ruts myself. I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a lot of men in Japan reading Shoujo manga so it may be just that Kon wasn't really familiar with it like he would be Shounen stuff.

I find that Shoujo spends a lot more time on character development, making the cliche arch-types a lot more bareable and less glaringly obvious.

 

[Jex]

Eh, I find Shoujo manga to have its own character ruts myself. I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a lot of men in Japan reading Shoujo manga so it may be just that Kon wasn't really familiar with it like he would be Shounen stuff.

The article kind of makes it sound like part of a phase when he was at high school, saying that he thought girls were more complicated and mature then boys at that age. But it doesn't really specify anything else apart from that "Bessastsu Margaret and the artists Fusako Kuramochi and Mariko Iwadate were really popular". So it isn't very clear, apart from that he never liked Shonen type stories.

 

[NeonZ]

Watching the newest Keroro episode, at one moment an embarrassed girl shoved her friend's head against a locker... Even though they were 2 girls, it's so rare to see this kind of scene done to girls in anime.

Anyway, I guess I made a bad choice with the anime I picked up for this season (Ookami kakushi)... It's basically Higurashi, only they're revealing the important plot points right in the beginning, the atmosphere is much worse (vertical eyes > shinning eyes) and there's more fan service... Yet, everything moves really slowly.

 

[firehawk12]

I find that Shoujo spends a lot more time on character development, making the cliche arch-types a lot more bareable and less glaringly obvious.

If I had to choose, in general I definitely prefer shoujo to shounen, but shoujo falls into a formula that can be as frustrating as any other shounen fair.

Like, the main character is almost always a sweet, beautiful girl who is always misunderstood and bullied by another more popular girl. And to complicate matters more, they both like the same dude... but eventually dude makes the right choice and picks the main character.

It's basically female wish fulfillment.

 

[Apath]

If I had to choose, in general I definitely prefer shoujo to shounen, but shoujo falls into a formula that can be as frustrating as any other shounen fair.

Like, the main character is almost always a sweet, beautiful girl who is always misunderstood and bullied by another more popular girl. And to complicate matters more, they both like the same dude... but eventually dude makes the right choice and picks the main character.

It's basically female wish fulfillment.

I don't read them that often so that could be why it's not as obvious for me. :lol

 

[firehawk12]

Oh, it's not like I go out of my way - I basically just follow the shoujo shows that come on as they air, and they have to do much less to attract my interest.

I will say though, I find that shoujo-ai aimed at shoujo audiences tends to subvert the genre a bit - for the most obvious reason that the gender dynamics are completely different. Even so though, you can see how the characters of something like Marimite could be similar to characters from Kimi ni Todoke.

I think it helps that shoujo (at least that I've seen) is mostly set in the real world where as shounen is set in some random fantasy/scifi world. Shounen has to work harder to explain the world to the audience, so having characters that are instantly recognizable is an easy way to do it.

 

[Jex]

Cobra : The Animation 4

So far every women either looks like a stripper or a prostitue (even religious figures) but I suppose I should be grateful that they don't look like children. Also, eye balls attack people. The ending went all

Spoiler

Cyber City Oedo 808 : 1 all of a suddenn

Shows still entertaining though.

 

[7Th]

Cobra : The Animation 4

So far every women either looks like a stripper or a prostitute (even religious figures) but I suppose I should be grateful that they don't look like children.

So it's just like classic Cobra, huh.

 

[Pachael]

To be honest, although I like to watch Kimi no Todoke, I can't pretend that it doesn't carry most of the usual shoujo tropes such as the games the girls (and much less guys) play.

 

[Apath]

To be honest, although I like to watch Kimi no Todoke, I can't pretend that it doesn't carry most of the usual shoujo tropes such as the games the girls (and much less guys) play.

Is that anything like the manga Kimi ni Todoke?

EDIT: Yeah, probably is. On one manga it's under the "Anime" category. Funny that this is mentioned since this was the last shoujo I read (and still isn't complete). Is the anime any good?

 

[firehawk12]

The anime is almost a panel for panel adaptation and it's good for what it is. You basically have to be able to tolerate the conventions of the genre though, because each episode is slowed down with really, really long shots of the characters in sparkly background.

 

[Apath]

The anime is almost a panel for panel adaptation and it's good for what it is. You basically have to be able to tolerate the conventions of the genre though, because each episode is slowed down with really, really long shots of the characters in sparkly background.

:lol
Probably not for me then. I'll give it a shot some time when I'm burnt out -- can't be much worse than Honey and Clover at least.

EDIT: Just watched it for a few minutes. Yeah, really is exactly like the manga. And the sparkling backgrounds are fine. Just seems like another entertaining series to not be taken seriously. Will watch more some other time.

 

[Great Rumbler]

Cobra : The Animation 4

So far every women either looks like a stripper or a prostitue (even religious figures) but I suppose I should be grateful that they don't look like children.

COBRA

THE

ANIMATION

 

[Jet Grind Radio!]

I watched the first two episodes of Hanamaru Kindergarten and I really liked it. I wasn't sure how I felt about the show at first, but as long as there is a good amount of character exploration then Ill be happy. I really like the little vigniette they did on Hiiragi.

Also, does anyone know of a good sub group for HK? No links, just a name plz. LK kinda sucks.

 

[Jex]

So it's just like classic Cobra, huh.

Right down to the character designs, but with far less actual animation. But with an added over-top in-english opening song.

Probably not for me then. I'll give it a shot some time when I'm burnt out -- can't be much worse than Honey and Clover at least.

Lies! Your subjective opinion is wrong!

 

[Angry Grimace]

:lol
As long as you can empathize with the character, how ordinary or extraordinary their characteristics are are irrelevant. That's what I mean when I say realistic -- not that I could imagine the character walking down the street or being my next door neighbor.

The point is that harems in anime are wish-fulfillment fantasies. In reality, most real men placed into a harem-anime situation would almost assuredly be paired with the first female to take interest.

The protaganists in these series are wish-fulfillments too. The idea that 6 super hot chicks would be head-over-heels in love with a guy for just "being himself" and quiet and studious probably resonates with the type of person that watches a lot of these series. There's a reason they're rarely confident, brash jerks who notice all the women they have to beat off with sticks; because the type of person that gets their rocks off on that type of fantasy doesn't identify with cool, decisive characters.

 

[octopusman]

I have lost all faith in the taste of anime watchers.

 

[zoku88]

Hanamaru is pretty cute...

 

[shintoki]

Eh, I find Shoujo manga to have its own character ruts myself. I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a lot of men in Japan reading Shoujo manga so it may be just that Kon wasn't really familiar with it like he would be Shounen stuff.

They are given the opportunity to flesh out the characters a bit more in Shoujo than Shounen. It is definitely a more character driven piece than your Bleach, One Piece, Naruto or many of the other popular Shounens which rely heavily on fighting and "The World". Shounens pretty much assign a goal to the character during their initial Arc(Backstory, what they want to be, etc), and hope they can make it stick across for 200+ chapters. So when they are still riding the same stick for so long. It gets hard to care for them.

But they without a doubt have their own ruts or "Specific" genre of character. And many of them go absolutely no where over time. Managing to drag out the series far longer than needed. Skip Beat and Wallflower are two perfect examples of this. Any relationship bits in Skip Beat are currently unbearable. There has been near zero advance since the start, and Kyou has barely advance as a character.

 

[anotheriori]

Wallflower is a comedy though right so I'd imagine the character development would be very slow until the comedy material starts to get old. I just started skip beat and I assumed it was a 'revenge' tale but your making me think that the goal is to win kyou over :/

 

[Pandaman]

Hanamaru is pretty cute...

 

[zoku88]

^Is that from the movie? That seemed more nicely animated than what I remember, lol

 

[Jasconius]

^Is that from the movie? That seemed more nicely animated than what I remember, lol

No, it's from the very first episode where they wasted their animation budget to draw people in to watch the rest of the season, which was animated much more normally. ;p

 

[firehawk12]

What is it?

 

[anotheriori]

No, it's from the very first episode where they wasted their animation budget to draw people in to watch the rest of the season, which was animated much more normally. ;p

Is that strike witches..? Good animation for early episodes... It's gotta be Gonzo right?

 

[zoku88]

Is that strike witches..? Good animation for early episodes... It's gotta be Gonzo right?

nanoha

 

[Pandaman]

^Is that from the movie? That seemed more nicely animated than what I remember, lol

I wish, that'd mean there was a decent quality capture of the movie somewhere. :lol

But yeah, with nanoha its:
season1: ALL BUDGET TO EPISODE 1.
season2: perfect moderation.
season3: fuck this shit, there'll be a DVD.

Is that strike witches..?

Good animation for early episodes... It's gotta be Gonzo right?

I wish i could hate you to death.

 

[Steroyd]

nanoha

No F'in way! I'm taking my time going through this right now, and I self doubted myself that it was Nanoha for some reason! O_O

Trying to watch Vampire Bund... the loli... it's too strong!

 

[Gilgamesh]

Just watched episode three of Baka to Test and it continues to be the most hilarious anime I've ever seen.

Trying to watch Vampire Bund... the loli... it's too strong!

I had planned to watch this, but after I hearing about episode two I'm out.

 

[Steroyd]

I want to wait till it's over and watch it all in one go (maybe), episode 2 and 3 seem to be hinting that the loli vampire gets at least one fanservice scene every episode, but I like Vampires and can't help myself.

 

[Magnus_Bulla]

I had completely written off Baka Test but it seems like everyone who's seen it has great things to say. Guess I'll check it out.

 

[watervengeance]

I wish, that'd mean there was a decent quality capture of the movie somewhere. :lol

But yeah, with nanoha its:
season1: ALL BUDGET TO EPISODE 1.
season2: perfect moderation.
season3: fuck this shit, there'll be a DVD.



I wish i could hate you to death.

Maybe that's why I decided to watch Nanoha. :lol But yeah, Season 3 was god awful in every way.

 

[Pandaman]

Maybe that's why I decided to watch Nanoha. :lol But yeah, Season 3 was god awful in every way.

nah, it had some redeeming qualities.

would have been better if they did away with the kiddies and had only tea and subaru as the new guys. that way there'd have been more vita/signum/fate screentime.

but yea, white devil nanoha, cyborg subaru, vita vs. core, signums plot and ofcourse the floor crush were all good moments in strikerS.

Consult the chart:

IMO:
A's>DVD strikerS>season 1>TV strikers

 

[octopusman]

:lol
Probably not for me then. I'll give it a shot some time when I'm burnt out -- can't be much worse than Honey and Clover at least.

EDIT: Just watched it for a few minutes. Yeah, really is exactly like the manga. And the sparkling backgrounds are fine. Just seems like another entertaining series to not be taken seriously. Will watch more some other time.

What is your problem with being entertained? Personally I feel that the entertaining aspects are what makes it realistic, and why the viewers care about the character.

 

[How About No]

Jesus Christ give her the Diazepam!