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[Decado]

Katanagatari is so good. This is by the Bakemonogatari folks, right? Both have the same interesting dialogue and character interaction

I didn't really care for Bakeblahblah, though it had some promise. Katanagatari was more interesting, but I don't care for the Shounen style, $5 animation and the pacing. Some of the dialogue is pretty funny, though.

 

[grandjedi6]

Katanagatari is so good. This is by the Bakemonogatari folks, right? Both have the same interesting dialogue and character interaction

The source manga is written by the same author but the anime adaptions are by two different studios.

 

[A Black Falcon]

I do.

Spoiler

When she was talking to the dead soldier, or going through that internal monologue in her head, the soldier apologized for losing, it wasn't one of her's, she referred to his language as ideograms and was sorry she couldn't read his last words. But anyways the soldier that was from an army that was not hers apologized to her for losing, which resulted in the world being destroyed. If he was merely a soldier from some nations army I don't think he'd apologize for losing, maybe apologize for starting the war, fighting the war, or how the war was fought but not so much for losing unless that countries enemy just happened to be some silly, cliched, full on balls to the wall evil empire, but I don't think that really exists. And even if such a nation did exist I could hardly see why it'd want to destroy the world, I mean, why would an evil empire want to rule over a desert?

Huh, so that's what you mean? I don't agree with your analysis...

Spoiler

Specifically, I don't think that the dead soldier is from a different country from the current people. Yes, they have forgotten how to read Japanese ("the ideogram language" as she says in the episode), but I didn't think that it meant that they were actually different people... it's like with the school that is their fort, I thought that they were saying that the cause of the forgotten language was the fall of civilization, not losing the war... though that doesn't answer the question of why they speak French now. Or why the ruins of Japan are in Switzerland. Um, yeah, I don't think either your or my explanations really cover this yet...

Anyway, the ruins of Japan are all around them, despite the French language and European setting. The show has said that some of the people in the south, where Kanata is from, still have Japanese customs, though, so it's not all European, and I don't think it's saying that the Japanese soldier, or the school, is from some completely different nation... it's just completely mysterious about how things got this way, at this point, I think.

As for the enemy, I don't think we saw them, but their artillery rounds and such seemed completely normal, so I don't see a reason t othink that they're anything other than human. We just didn't see them because that wasn't the point of the episode... and because tanks shooting at eachother often do it from pretty far visual range, of course, and the show tries to have at least some degree of military accuracy.

Spoiler

So what I gathered from that was that they fought a war that HAD to be fought wars between mankind generally don't HAVE to be fought. The war was such that if man lost the world was ruined. The war went on over several generations. That to me just means that it has to be an external threat to humanity.

Further, if it were another country, where the fuck is the winner? Surely it didn't start some massive conflict just to laugh at the other countries being set back hundreds of years, that's just, well, mean. So I don't think there was a "winning" country, signified by the lack of an occupying force.

Spoiler

I think that when the nukes went off it pretty much became a draw, everybody lost. You can't win a nuclear war. Also, I think that the modern conflict between the nation and its neighbor, that is the one we saw flashbacks of in the episode, is something unrelated. I could be wrong about that last part, we don't know enough to say anything for sure, it could have been a more recent war between the descendants of the people of the "Japan" and the descendants of the people they were fighting, I have no idea.

Spoiler

What I think happened is some kind of external force threatened the Earth, alien or natural and the first war, the war fought at humanities technological height was fought as a globally concentrated effort, the kind that'd shuffle people and cultures around which would explain how they're in a relatively small region yet come into contact with aspects of other cultures. That war, which the dead soldier in the underground ruins would have been part of, was ultimately lost and humanity's global unified effort was broken and the world was split into different countries with what resources they had left.

Now here's where I think the world got fucked up. I imagine it was something like the Matrix, where humans wanted to "win" conventionally but had to do something drastic because they were ultimately losing. So I think in the second era, the era where the blond Captain/Lieutenant was a rookie in the tank that their generation destroyed the Earth to stop/slow the impending defeat of humanity. She was fighting in a city in her flashback and the city wasn't near as dilapidated as it was in the previous episode where they saw the end of the Earth. I think her generation did that.

That's also why I think it was some kind of natural force that lives in the Earth, why would they need to essentially poison the Earth to win or stall a war? Surely the other side wouldn't be so evil if it were merely another country that it'd warrant taking out the planet, setting everyone even further back development wise. So I think it was some kind thing that lives in the Earth that started coming out and fighting with people, he towns legend may be related to it in fact, I'd bet on it.

Of course, those are all assumptions.

Could be, I guess, but as I said I'd never have thought of that based on what we've seen so far and don't expect things to go that way. But who knows, they add new things to the backstory in every episode...

 

[mAcOdIn]

Could be, I guess, but as I said I'd never have thought of that based on what we've seen so far and don't expect things to go that way. But who knows, they add new things to the backstory in every episode...

Spoiler

Well it's completely possible that a human country allied itself with the "evil" force but I don't think it'd be as simple as human on human action. Frankly, I think the soldier says it all, whether it was a hallucination or not. There's no need for him to apologize for losing to some random survivor years after his war was fought and lost, it makes no sense. Sure in normal wars there are losers but there's also winners. For him to apologize for losing implies there was no way her side was the winner, how does he know that she wasn't descended from his enemy and agreed with the war? He just assumed because she was human that she was part of the group that lost.

Frankly, if they do have some big evil country I'm going to be pissed. I hate that idea. Look at WW 2, would living in Nazi Germany have been bad for everyone? Obviously minorities would be fucked but if you had "Aryan" features, after the dust had settled, you now ruled a large part of the world, things would probably be looking pretty good. So someone who fought the Nazi's and lost might apologize to a Jew but to a white, blue eyed blond haired person? That person's position might have actually been better with the Nazis winning. Same with Japan, lots of people think they were cruel in WW 2 but did the Japanese benefit from losing WW 2?

There's just no real way you can issue a blanket apology for losing a war to another person unless you know for a fact that that person couldn't have benefited by you losing, only way you could do that is if you make it human versus something not human, because only then does no human benefit from you losing.

I also think the idea of them losing their language is retarded, I think that after large parts of the Earth was destroyed that people moved around and formed new cultures, or assimilated into the existing one but brought some of their customs. I can see losing technology but not the ability to read.

But I also think the translation for the show is "off" as well. They call the tank a "relic" or some shit when their leader was fighting in that tank and she's not that old. It's possible the tank even predates her unit and was found/repaired and put into service but I guess we'll have to wait and see for that. Also, if it were really a relic and they'd lost their old language how do they read the screen? So I really question if it's as old as they say it is.

But then that also makes me question if the word "era" or whatnot is used properly in the show.

And if that's not even used right and the times between the wars are being exaggerated by the use of words like relic and era then other parts of the story may be getting jumbled as well. Maybe the soldier didn't mean to apologize for his side losing the war, fail is usually synonymous with lose, perhaps he said he's sorry they failed them, "failed the future generation" which is a much broader apology that could encompass shit like "my bad we couldn't work out our problems and we nuked the fuck out of each other."

If the translation's accurate I still stand by my interpretation but if the translation's off you're probably correct.

 

[Jex]

Really? I find it dull compared to Bakemonogatari.

SHAFT and Shinbo's work on Bakemonogatori feels superior to White Fox's work on Katanagatari in pretty much everyway. While the source materials are probably of differing qualities I can't say as I have no familiratiy with them. Then again it's really a comparison between two animes so they succeed of fail there based on the direction and animation work.

Dialouge is something that comes from the novel, presumably, but that's still no excuse for some scenes in Katanagari, mainly episode two, that just go on forever with little thought for pacing. The animatiom from SHAFT, when it's there of course (presumably it's alot better on the DVD/BluRay release), if often fluid and dramatic, with striking visual colours making scenes interesting to look at. More importantly, and stepping away from something like animation, there's the direction as a whole, for Bakemonogatori. The camera is not fixed, it will travel around, do wierd stuff, move close, move futher away etc. Then there's the overall pacing, the tone (helped by greatly by the music), the shot compisition and mise-en-scene, the editing and so forth. It makes a show, mainly about people talking excting to watch (apart from those phone conversations).

Katanagari is just shot and composed in a very formulaic and safe fashion which becomes problematic as it's also a show were people just talk.

I just finished Space Adventure Cobra and if you weren't already aware that the show was awesome he apparently kills Hitler. Now it's time for some Space Pirate Captain Harlock I feel...

 

[Great Rumbler]

SHAFT and Shinbo's work on Bakemonogatori feels superior to White Fox's work on Katanagatari in pretty much everyway.

White Fox is a really new studio, Katanagatari is only their second series. SHAFT has done dozens of series though.

 

[Jex]

White Fox is a really new studio, Katanagatari is only their second series. SHAFT has done dozens of series though.

While that is true it's hardly the case that SHAFT lots of money or animators or voice actors. Or maybe they are just poorly managed. Even if you take say, quality of animation, out of the picture that has nothing to do with directorial style.

 

[Great Rumbler]

While that is true it's hardly the case that SHAFT lots of money or animators or voice actors. Or maybe they are just poorly managed. Even if you take say, quality of animation, out of the picture that has nothing to do with directorial style.

I'm not talking about animation quality or budget. White Fox is new and their people have only worked together on one other show. SHAFT's been around for a while and their people have lots of experience with creating high quality series.

It's like comparing a new director's first movie and the latest movie from a director that's got a dozen great piece of work under his belt. There's going to be some major differences between the two, if only for the simple reason that one has been there before and the other hasn't.

 

[Jex]

I'm not talking about animation quality or budget. White Fox is new and their people have only worked together on one other show. SHAFT's been around for a while and their people have lots of experience with creating high quality series.

It's like comparing a new director's first movie and the latest movie from a director that's got a dozen great piece of work under his belt. There's going to be some major differences between the two, if only for the simple reason that one has been there before and the other hasn't.

I don't think it's a bad show at all, I enjoyed the first two episodes. However I was just saying that I preferred one show to the other. It's irrelevant to most people who created the show, I guess most people woudlnt know, they'd just say which one they preferred.

 

[Dresden]

It might have something to do with the fact that a half-vampire man saving cute lolis in distress is a bit more appealing that a half-naked martial arts guy traveling around collecting swords.

I do like Bakemonogatari more, though. But Katanagatari is fine. Not every director is Shinbo.

 

[biosnake20]

any shows like mnemosyne?

 

[S. L.]

why is everybody hating on Katanagatari?
While the direction might not be as good, i think the characters have a lot more charm than the ones in Bakemonogatari.

 

[Haly]

Just chiming in to say I'm definitely enjoying Katanagatari.

 

[Great Rumbler]

Who's hating on Katangatari? I do actually like it, you know!

 

[watervengeance]

Katanagatari is awesome.

 

[Jex]

why is everybody hating on Katanagatari?
While the direction might not be as good, i think the characters have a lot more charm than the ones in Bakemonogatari.

Actually neither of the people discussing Katanagatari were hating on it, we were just discussing it! I enjoyed the first two episodes, but I also wanted to explain why I enjoyed Bakemonogatori more. It remains to be seen how well the rest of the show will pan out.

 

[Mandoric]

Inadvertently dodging into an argument about Bake to note that ZanSZS OAD2 is out and should be translated within a couple days.

Spoiler

Hidamari and Nodame first

Spoiler

because they don't make me suicidal

 

[firehawk12]

Woah, yeah, intense episode, and the most depressing one yet. Great episode though, for sure... this show just has so much to it, it's really impressive and engrossing. We learn a lot more about the world, we learn about the leader's tragic past, and more. The opening scene was quite sad.

Spoiler

By 'the character that connects them' do you mean that princess? Is she the one who was playing and inspired Kanata to join? I can't quite remember... and what connections does she have to the otehr three, if you're saying that she's a common thread connecting all of the characters?

Yep, she's the mysterious soldier that so far connects three of the five squad members. There's also an implication that Rio is

Spoiler

also a princess

. You also see where the tank that they are working on is from as well, hinting at why everyone is connected to "Amazing Grace".

I really like the balance of the show. The bittersweet moments world building moments are very much like Aria (I'm almost certain Aria also did a "festival of the dead" episode) but the back story that leads to each of these moments are tragic and gruesome. The easy way to tell this story would be to focus on the angst and grieving, but they choose to focus on the recovery process.

Also, the 'Japan or Europe' thing is still weird. It's basically like the country is a Japan in Switzerland or something... quite odd. Hopefully we'll learn more about this, to see what the explanation is for how that works, because it's still pretty strange... it's interesting to see how the different elements of the two mix, but strange. I definitely want to know the explanation for how this mixture happened, if there is one.

Spoiler

On that note, what about the long conversation with the ghost in episode 7? Was that supposed to be something that actually happened, or an internal conversation in her head between the part of her that believed what that ghost was saying and the part that rejected it? It kind of felt like they were suggesting that it could have been either of those, I thought... she clearly had been thinking along similar lines to what the ghost was saying, and then considered and at least partially rejected that philosophy in favor of something else, though likely not the something else she would have said before the horrible events of that day. But tragedy definitely can change people. It would be hard for something like that to not change someone, I think...

Also, her end decision on the meaning of the world was interesting and it'd be interesting to see her elaborate a bit more on her thoughts on that, though I doubt we'll see too much of that in a short series. The historical and philosophical elements are definitely important parts of why this series is so good.

Kind of responding the the varied posts here. I don't think it's worth spoiling, but what the hell. :lol

Spoiler

On what happened in the past... I felt that given the way the "walkers" looked in the soldier's flashback implied an alien presence, because the "walkers" in the Captain's flashback were much less fluid in their movements. I have to assume that some kind of event forced humanity together by they started tearing each other apart in the post-war victory.
There's also a question of what happened in the no man's land and what lies beyond that. I'm sure they won't touch on that in depth by the time the show ends, but I think it implies that this isn't necessarily post apocalyptic.

Also, the way everything Japanese is explained as almost "heathenistic" kind of implies that there was a victor and the cultural hegemony wars. I just wonder if they are supposed to be speaking Japanese in the show - since they're clearly reading French (or Spanish, whatever).

The initial description definitely didn't give a good picture of what the show actually is, particularly with those character designs... but right from the first episode it's been pretty obvious that it isn't just some silly moe comedy clone show, and that's definitely a good thing.

Also, by 'depending on how it ends', good point... it's pretty good so far though, so hopefully it will keep up that level of quality. As for an ending, yeah, I would like to see something other than an apocalyptic one, I perfer happy endings overall... but we'll see, it definitely could go either way. There is a lot of sadness in the series, but there is some optimism as well. I wonder which way it will go... or whether they'll have some kind of non-ending ending (though I guess, considering the alternatives, that would probably be classified as happy...). We'll see.

The characters still look like K-On characters though. Rio, Tsumugi and Yui anyway. :lol
I wonder if that was just to draw in the nerdynerds who loved the shit out of K-On. But hey, at least there hasn't been a fanservice episode yet (let alone 2 in K-On).

Funny enough, I kind of wouldn't mind a sort of slow, graceful bittersweet ending like the one in Yokohama Kaidashi Kikō, which depicts a dying Earth through the eyes of the main character. It's just a matter of living one's life regardless of the circumstances surrounding them.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Oh shit, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei has been licensed for the US by Media Blasters, same guys who brought over Genshiken. They don't ever really do anything special or extraordinary so their releases are pretty bare bones and they seem to be slow as fuck getting shit out with lots of delays but I'll support this like I support Genshiken.
Edit: First volume of SZS due in May.

 

[Jex]

Oh shit, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei has been licensed for the US by Media Blasters, same guys who brought over Genshiken. They don't ever really do anything special or extraordinary so their releases are pretty bare bones and they seem to be slow as fuck getting shit out with lots of delays but I'll support this like I support Genshiken.
Edit: First volume of SZS due in May.

What? Who the hell would liscence SZS? There's got to be like seven customers for that tops.

 

[mAcOdIn]

What? Who the hell would liscence SZS? There's got to be like seven customers for that tops.

Well, Del Ray has the manga and now Media Blasters has the anime. Ok, so I'm one customer, who here's the other 6? Besides Genshiken Media Blasters also brought over Seirei no Moribito.

 

[Jex]

Well, Del Ray has the manga and now Media Blasters has the anime. Ok, so I'm one customer, who here's the other 6? Besides Genshiken Media Blasters also brought over Seirei no Moribito.

Well I'll probably pick it up if it's reasonably priced, but even among people who watch current anime it's not exactly a heavily discussed show. But then again, after Maria Holic got liscenced I suppose anything is possible.

 

[Lain]

Bakatest 7 is hilarious. Some of the various bits are great: the MGS bit, the titanic image, the quiz show, even a Rocky Joe reference.

 

[Pachael]

Well, Del Ray has the manga and now Media Blasters has the anime. Ok, so I'm one customer, who here's the other 6? Besides Genshiken Media Blasters also brought over Seirei no Moribito.

One customer here. 5 more then.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Well I'll probably pick it up if it's reasonably priced, but even among people who watch current anime it's not exactly a heavily discussed show. But then again, after Maria Holic got liscenced I suppose anything is possible.

Yeah, can go either way with these guys, I think Moribito still doesn't have a set and I only buy sets, it will depend on price for me as well to be honest. I really liked the first season of SZS but I'm not buying 4 different DVD's for 30 bucks a pop or some shit. But it's only a 12 ep show so I'm sure it'll get a box, it'll probably just be around Christmas.

And yeah, it's a niche show for sure but these guys don't spend a bunch of money on their releases and they actually bring over a lot of shit, and by shit, I mean literal shit, these guys I guess they know how to live on a shoe string budget lol. But I'm happy, SZS is a good show, I am happy it'll get a proper US release even if I don't think it'll be the next Full Metal Alchemist or anything. It was more deserving than Maria+Holic, Special A, Blue Drop and a host of other shit that came/is coming here.

Bakatest 7 is hilarious. Some of the various bits are great: the MGS bit, the titanic image, the quiz show, even a Rocky Joe reference.

Haha yeah, I'm glad they seemed to drop the repeating gag thing they were doing in previous episodes too, pretty much every joke in this one was a different one. Really bugged me that for a couple of episodes each gag was recycled, like the episode with the pool and Hideoyoshi(I guess?) had his own room both times and the episode with the lunches with the weird KKK clan lynching Yoshi twice, I was kinda getting tired of it, but this episode didn't rely on that. Wait, I might have to take that back since he called both Yoshi and Hideoyoshi on his cell.

One customer here. 5 more then.

Fuck yes, high five!

 

[3kuSaS]

Katanagatari is great, about to start watching ep 2 right now! Seems like this is the only fighting anime this season which is unfortunate since thats basically the only kind of anime I enjoy outside of Deathnote.

 

[jman2050]

If nothing else, at least SHAFT seems to use SZS to continue their current unblemished track record of the most awesome anime OPs ever

Case-in-point

 

[Dresden]

If nothing else, at least SHAFT seems to use SZS to continue their current unblemished track record of the most awesome anime OPs ever

Case-in-point

It's hard not to have awesome OPs when you spend half the season's budget on them.

 

[Haly]

If nothing else, at least SHAFT seems to use SZS to continue their current unblemished track record of the most awesome anime OPs ever

Case-in-point

What the hell are they on?

(And where can I get some?)

 

[Mandoric]

What the hell are they on?

Dog curry.

 

[Haly]

Also, where is that OP from? I thought Zan finished already.

 

[A Black Falcon]

A few comments on things other than Sora no Woto...

Katanagatari - Watched the first episode. Seems pretty conventional, but good. I'll watch more. It's too bad that the sister isn't going with them, in that conversation they were having she was the most tolerable one of the three...

Fairy Tail - Yeah, I've kept watching the show, and have watched all 18 episodes so far, and like half of the manga too. I like it. The anime just finished the second arc already... this show isn't doing Naruto, etc.-style ten episode long battles. It keeps things moving at a good pace. That's nice, Naruto, Bleach, etc. are good shows but the way those fights drag on and on and on gets tedious sometimes... Fairy Tail isn't doing that. Of course it means that it probably won't be a show that goes on forver like those do, but that's okay.

Bakatest - Watched through ep. 6 so far. It's so stupid, yet funny just often enough to be worth watching anyway... the people making it obviously know it's stupid, too. But yeah, it definitely has some amusing stuff that keeps it worth watching.

Also, it's not a recent show, but I watched Those Who Hunt Elves I recently, and the first two episodes (so far) of II. Good show... silly stuff. It's definitely entertaining. Some things about it are dumb of course, but oh well, nothing's perfect, and more is good than bad.


Sora no Woto.

I hope the change in Sora no Woto's tone is kept up throughout the remaining episodes, and episode 7 wasn't just a one-off.

I disagree, I don't want the whole show to be that depressing... and anyway, I didn't think that episode 7 was way better than the first six. The whole show is great, not just episode 7. I mean, it was a pretty good episode, but I definitely hope that they keep that balance between the sadder and more optimistic parts of the show up.

I really like the balance of the show. The bittersweet moments world building moments are very much like Aria (I'm almost certain Aria also did a "festival of the dead" episode) but the back story that leads to each of these moments are tragic and gruesome. The easy way to tell this story would be to focus on the angst and grieving, but they choose to focus on the recovery process.

I agree, as I just said. It definitely is more interesting and different to have a post-apocalyptic series that focuses on recovery than destruction... hopefully it keeps it up, but they've done a great job of it so far.

Kind of responding the the varied posts here. I don't think it's worth spoiling, but what the hell.

Spoiler

On what happened in the past... I felt that given the way the "walkers" looked in the soldier's flashback implied an alien presence, because the "walkers" in the Captain's flashback were much less fluid in their movements. I have to assume that some kind of event forced humanity together by they started tearing each other apart in the post-war victory.
There's also a question of what happened in the no man's land and what lies beyond that. I'm sure they won't touch on that in depth by the time the show ends, but I think it implies that this isn't necessarily post apocalyptic.

Hmm, you think that too? We'll see, I'm sure.

Spoiler

Also, the way everything Japanese is explained as almost "heathenistic" kind of implies that there was a victor and the cultural hegemony wars. I just wonder if they are supposed to be speaking Japanese in the show - since they're clearly reading French (or Spanish, whatever).

Spoiler

I agree, they're probably actually supposed to be speaking French... though there are some confusing aspects here, as usual with this show. I mean, if they don't read Japanese, then why do a few people seem to be able to read it? I mean Kanata's name stamp was in Japanese, and she wrote her name in Japanese on that wall... but didn't she say she couldn't read it in the second episode or something? Or am I remembering that wrong? I know that she seems to come from a more Japanese place, though, with their Japanese festivals and customs and food and such, so if she knew some of the language -- maybe just names and such? -- it would make sense, I guess. But they definitely seem to be somewhat inconsistent overall with how they use characters. They want to fit them in in places, I think, even if they don't seem to entirely make sense...

Also, what about with the encounter with the "ghost" in ep. 7? If he was really a ghost, how could they understand eachother if she doesn't speak Japanese anymore? He likely only knew Japanese...

But if they write in French, it's definitely hard to imagine their spoken language being Japanese, that's for sure.

Spoiler

Well it's completely possible that a human country allied itself with the "evil" force but I don't think it'd be as simple as human on human action. Frankly, I think the soldier says it all, whether it was a hallucination or not. There's no need for him to apologize for losing to some random survivor years after his war was fought and lost, it makes no sense. Sure in normal wars there are losers but there's also winners. For him to apologize for losing implies there was no way her side was the winner, how does he know that she wasn't descended from his enemy and agreed with the war? He just assumed because she was human that she was part of the group that lost.

Frankly, if they do have some big evil country I'm going to be pissed. I hate that idea. Look at WW 2, would living in Nazi Germany have been bad for everyone? Obviously minorities would be fucked but if you had "Aryan" features, after the dust had settled, you now ruled a large part of the world, things would probably be looking pretty good. So someone who fought the Nazi's and lost might apologize to a Jew but to a white, blue eyed blond haired person? That person's position might have actually been better with the Nazis winning. Same with Japan, lots of people think they were cruel in WW 2 but did the Japanese benefit from losing WW 2?

There's just no real way you can issue a blanket apology for losing a war to another person unless you know for a fact that that person couldn't have benefited by you losing, only way you could do that is if you make it human versus something not human, because only then does no human benefit from you losing.

Spoiler

If she looked Japanese, I'd think it would make sense... apologizing to someone who appeared to be from his nation... but she doesn't really, I guess, though it's always impossible to tell with anime characters. Of course also she's in what evidently used to be Japan... and then there's the alternate explanation that maybe it was all (or mostly) in her head, and if that's it of course it's easy to explain.

Spoiler

I also think the idea of them losing their language is retarded, I think that after large parts of the Earth was destroyed that people moved around and formed new cultures, or assimilated into the existing one but brought some of their customs. I can see losing technology but not the ability to read.

Spoiler

Reading requires a class of people with nothing to do but study. People focused solely on survival like hunter-gatherer groups generally cannot read, because they can't afford to... and also, Japanese is really hard to learn. It requires intensive focused effort and memorization. If no one was doing that anymore, it's easy to see most people forgetting how to read. Some people evidently do still know how to read it some, see my above comments about Kanata and characters, though. But also, how much time passed between the wars that destroyed society and the present day? The longer it has been, the easier it is to imagine.

It is possible for a people to mostly forget how to read their language. Best example I can think of would be the Maya. By the time the Spanish arrived in the 1500s nobody could still read the writings of the ancient Mayans, back before their civilization collapsed and the survivors were reduced to subsistence-level existence for good pretty much...

Spoiler

But I also think the translation for the show is "off" as well. They call the tank a "relic" or some shit when their leader was fighting in that tank and she's not that old. It's possible the tank even predates her unit and was found/repaired and put into service but I guess we'll have to wait and see for that. Also, if it were really a relic and they'd lost their old language how do they read the screen? So I really question if it's as old as they say it is.

But then that also makes me question if the word "era" or whatnot is used properly in the show.

And if that's not even used right and the times between the wars are being exaggerated by the use of words like relic and era then other parts of the story may be getting jumbled as well. Maybe the soldier didn't mean to apologize for his side losing the war, fail is usually synonymous with lose, perhaps he said he's sorry they failed them, "failed the future generation" which is a much broader apology that could encompass shit like "my bad we couldn't work out our problems and we nuked the fuck out of each other."

If the translation's accurate I still stand by my interpretation but if the translation's off you're probably correct.

I'm not sure about the tank, good question.

 

[firehawk12]

A few comments on things other than Sora no Woto...

I disagree, I don't want the whole show to be that depressing... and anyway, I didn't think that episode 7 was way better than the first six. The whole show is great, not just episode 7. I mean, it was a pretty good episode, but I definitely hope that they keep that balance between the sadder and more optimistic parts of the show up.

Spoiler

I agree, they're probably actually supposed to be speaking French... though there are some confusing aspects here, as usual with this show. I mean, if they don't read Japanese, then why do a few people seem to be able to read it? I mean Kanata's name stamp was in Japanese, and she wrote her name in Japanese on that wall... but didn't she say she couldn't read it in the second episode or something? Or am I remembering that wrong? I know that she seems to come from a more Japanese place, though, with their Japanese festivals and customs and food and such, so if she knew some of the language -- maybe just names and such? -- it would make sense, I guess. But they definitely seem to be somewhat inconsistent overall with how they use characters. They want to fit them in in places, I think, even if they don't seem to entirely make sense...

Also, what about with the encounter with the "ghost" in ep. 7? If he was really a ghost, how could they understand eachother if she doesn't speak Japanese anymore? He likely only knew Japanese...

But if they write in French, it's definitely hard to imagine their spoken language being Japanese, that's for sure.

I'm not sure about the tank, good question.

The show has always had a grim tone to it. It's just that it's not very difficult to show a mother dying and orphaning her child - compared to people being blown up anyhow.

On the tank, I figure it must be at least a decade or two old, based on Rio's apparent age in her flashback.

Anyway, on the whole language thing - the whole pickle is that the priest can read kanji. Whether that's the language of the church or people in the church can read Japanese and he chooses to help the locals despite church doctrines against the 'heathen' practices, who knows.

It is very possible to have languages and cultures die, of course. In a real world contemporary context, the Japanese have done this to their own aboriginal peoples, for example (and Canada, Australia and America have tried the same). It's possible that outside of this country, the culture and language are still thriving - Seize is a border town after all. It's just that due to isolation and strict control, everyone is forced to learn French.

 

[Oyashiro]

Only shows I'm watching this season are:
-Durarara
-Ookamikakushi

I'm planning on starting Katanagatari, though. Durarara is definitely the best show of the season, hands down. Great characters, art, and story. Ookami is decent, but I'm really only watching it because it's made by Ryukishi07.

Have you guys already looked at the stuff planned for next season? There's a lot of anime that look pretty interesting.

 

[firehawk12]

Yep, there's already a Spring thread. K-On S2 baby! :lol

 

[jman2050]

Also, where is that OP from? I thought Zan finished already.

The second OAD which was released recently.

 

[Kettch]

Durarara! 7 was great. Best of these introductory episodes so far, mainly because Shizuo is just that awesome. I really hope they get into some kind of a plot soon though.

 

[Defuser]

Yeah!! I been looking forward for Dhurarara ep7. Motherfucking Shizuo!!!!

 

[Jex]

Oh, wait, best episode of Durrur yet. Excellent - a clear, tight focus on one character. Doesn't hurt that it's a completely bat-shit insanse dude doing completely insanse things either.

 

[Lain]

I'm behind on Vampire Bund episodes. I could "blame" the fact that now I'm following the legal (subbed) stream we got in Italy.
Just watched episode 5 and Akira is so boring, but I still like the dark atmosphere, plus Mina was cool in how she dealt with the prime minister and the human girl.

 

[Great Rumbler]

I disagree, I don't want the whole show to be that depressing... and anyway, I didn't think that episode 7 was way better than the first six. The whole show is great, not just episode 7. I mean, it was a pretty good episode, but I definitely hope that they keep that balance between the sadder and more optimistic parts of the show up.

The whole show doesn't need to be depressing, but I'm really hoping that the rest of the show is about something IMPORTANT. The rest of the show has been standard slice of life fare, but maybe they'll toss in a few hints about something bigger.

I don't have anything against slice of life shows, but when you've got a world like the one in Sora no Woto it's a completely shame to waste it with nothing but slice of life. Episode 7 showed that there's a lot more going on than five girls being friends and the rest of the series should, to a larger degree than the first six episodes, explore that aspect.

 

[Jet Grind Radio!]

Oh shit, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei has been licensed for the US by Media Blasters, same guys who brought over Genshiken. They don't ever really do anything special or extraordinary so their releases are pretty bare bones and they seem to be slow as fuck getting shit out with lots of delays but I'll support this like I support Genshiken.
Edit: First volume of SZS due in May.

Really? Awesome! I think I still have the subs by [a.f.k] somewhere. I loved that show. Day 1 purchase for sure.

 

[firehawk12]

The whole show doesn't need to be depressing, but I'm really hoping that the rest of the show is about something IMPORTANT. The rest of the show has been standard slice of life fare, but maybe they'll toss in a few hints about something bigger.

I don't have anything against slice of life shows, but when you've got a world like the one in Sora no Woto it's a completely shame to waste it with nothing but slice of life. Episode 7 showed that there's a lot more going on than five girls being friends and the rest of the series should, to a larger degree than the first six episodes, explore that aspect.

That's the thing though, it's why I find myself disliking stuff such as Code Geass, where every episode is exposition - either about random battle tactics or about random politics. I mean, I'm assuming they have bigger plans for the series - or at least hope to have bigger plans anyway. Best to leave some things unexplained.

Then there's the fact that these people all live in the same world - there'd be no reason for them to talk to each other about what happened in the past in specific detail.

 

[Dresden]

So I tried watching a bit of Bakatest. Got up to episode 4 before I dropped it.

I know that it's 'meant' to be stupid, and the people who enjoy clearly appreciate it for what it is, but it's just a bit too dumb for me. It's not even funny most of the time, it's just a bunch of unrelated visual gags with some gay joke occasionally tossed it.

Hideyoshi is the only good thing about it.

 

[Haly]

So I tried watching a bit of Bakatest. Got up to episode 4 before I dropped it.

I know that it's 'meant' to be stupid, and the people who enjoy clearly appreciate it for what it is, but it's just a bit too dumb for me. It's not even funny most of the time, it's just a bunch of unrelated visual gags with some gay joke occasionally tossed it.

Hideyoshi is the only good thing about it.

I'm guessing you watched Maria + Holic for Mariya?

EDIT: Also recommend episode 6 for Hideyoshi antics.

 

[Steroyd]

Hideyoshi is the only good thing about it.

Is that the cross dresser?

If so I direct you to episode 6.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Bakatest 07 - Stupidest episode yet? I'm starting to get a little tired of it, honestly... and the whole "even though she's smart all she wants to do is get married to a moron" plotline, while one of the most common anime plots ever for female characters, is somewhat depressing as always. It's 100% wish-fulfillment-fantasy for the mostly male audience, of course, so I don't know how harmful it is, but it can't all be good. There's nothing more you want, really? (Plus, she also beats him up constantly, of course, and it's all played for laughs as that stuff always is. I mean, sure it's amusing sometimes, I liked Love Hina (it's an old favorite of mine actually)... but still, I can't help but think that they'd never get away with having a male character do those kinds of things to a female one...)

It's easier to watch anime if you can just not think about the sexism,I'm sure, because of how pervasive it is, but I just can't do that a lot of the time... that's a good thing, I think, but it does make stuff like this annoying.

The whole show doesn't need to be depressing, but I'm really hoping that the rest of the show is about something IMPORTANT. The rest of the show has been standard slice of life fare, but maybe they'll toss in a few hints about something bigger.

I don't have anything against slice of life shows, but when you've got a world like the one in Sora no Woto it's a completely shame to waste it with nothing but slice of life. Episode 7 showed that there's a lot more going on than five girls being friends and the rest of the series should, to a larger degree than the first six episodes, explore that aspect.

But the first six episodes weren't just slice of life, I'd say. Every episode revealed more about the world and has some kind of plot progression. There were plenty of suggestions about important things that had happened in the past and could in the future. It's far from standard slice of life comedy, even without episode 7... I don't know, I guess we're just looking at the series in different ways. I just don't think it's just slice of life, and definitely think that things will happen, most likely... perhaps not I guess, but if the series ends with nothing significant happening after so much buildup through the series so far it'd be pretty surprising.

That's the thing though, it's why I find myself disliking stuff such as Code Geass, where every episode is exposition - either about random battle tactics or about random politics. I mean, I'm assuming they have bigger plans for the series - or at least hope to have bigger plans anyway. Best to leave some things unexplained.

Then there's the fact that these people all live in the same world - there'd be no reason for them to talk to each other about what happened in the past in specific detail.

I didn't watch Code Geass, just didn't interest me somehow... and "let's make the plot 'more serious' by having more tragedy" just isn't something I like. There are ways of making your plot more serious without killing people off randomly and then having some of them inexplicably turn up again and stuff like that...

Also, yeah, you don't need to explain absolutely everything. I did say that Haibane Renmei is one of my favorite animes, and that series never answers most of the significant questions about the world it's set it... and I have no problem with that. The sense of mystery is one of the interesting things about the show.

You're also right about background exposition, they've done a very good job of it in Sora no Woto -- when serieses try to do things like that it can often come out as forced, trying to fit in explanations that the characters would actually not say because they all know those things... this series doesn't really do that, but lets things in gradually, to its credit.

 

[Dresden]

I'm guessing you watched Maria + Holic for Mariya?

EDIT: Also recommend episode 6 for Hideyoshi antics.

I watched Maria Holic for SHAFT/Shinbo randomness, actually.

Will check out episode 6.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Oh, wait, best episode of Durrur yet. Excellent - a clear, tight focus on one character. Doesn't hurt that it's a completely bat-shit insanse dude doing completely insanse things either.

I'm really out of touch, I didn't know this had an anime! However, it diverges from the manga too much for me. The manga has a way better presentation and pacing.

 

[Haly]

Durarara!:
Currently, I'm only interested in the Shinra-Selty and Izaya-Shizuo dynamics. (And when they overlap I squee like a giddy school girl reading about her favorite yaoi pairing)

Bakatest:
I wonder what Yuuji meant when he said he was a child prodigy.