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Winter Anime 2017 |OT| John Wick cleaning up KyoAni's mess
- Thread starter TUSR
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I mean, it's a comedy which, outside of the actual comedy has an actual character arc for MC, love story/continuous storyline, what more do you want from it ?
Sangatsu no Lion 17
It's pretty uncanny how similar Souya is to Arima from TG. even down to the ages. Ishida a hack.
Dedication Through Light
Member
KING OF THE BRAVES GAOGAIGAR Episode 44
Ga ga gatchi needs to be made. It looked so fun.
Mamoru finally at least telling one of his friends the truth was nice, though I kind of wanted him to go along with the alien abduction plot.
Ga ga gatchi needs to be made. It looked so fun.
Mamoru finally at least telling one of his friends the truth was nice, though I kind of wanted him to go along with the alien abduction plot.
Dedication Through Light
Member
BEYBLADE Episode 15 Engdub
Could have predicted this outcome, though the best was Ray telling the team about friendship and believing in one another. Good message.
AJ Topper and Brad Best commentary continues to be hilarious.
Could have predicted this outcome, though the best was Ray telling the team about friendship and believing in one another. Good message.
AJ Topper and Brad Best commentary continues to be hilarious.
manfestival
Member
I just watched the first 3 minutes of Mobile Suit Gundam the Origin and...
Same here, Im honestly thinking about dropping it. I mean it's cut but at the same time kinda too creepy for me
OniBarubary
Banned
Maidragon 5
Have to admit the pre-opening intro actually got me to laugh just because of the timing of it being so quick. Stupid crows.
Relating back to last episode with the conversation between Kanna and Tohru, I think why I like this show also ties into the subtle ways that they use the drama/serious aspects of the show. It doesn't have tone whiplash, though I've always sorta hated that term as well as felt it was overused when shifting tones drastically is a really effective method of evoking an emotion in someone (but that's neither here nor there and an argument for another time), but instead keeps the same...laid back and calm tone whether it is funny or serious. So in this case it was small but I enjoyed the opening where saying it's been two months and then focusing close in on the smile pretty much told you all you needed to know about Kobayashi opening up and why people noticed it so much. Tohru imagining the kabedon and pounding in time to break the table was cute.
It's sort of amusing how Tohru admits that everyone in the office is working hard and off-handedly thinks that dragons are still better since they could destroy their civilization but then sees Kobayashi working hard and admires and thinks it's so great; love sure changes how you view things.
Once again, the focus on tight shots and the partiality of faces in a neutral tone gets across a ton of how they're saying things. Tohru's earnestness is something that Kobayashi has never been very direct in responding to so all of her dialogue is turned away from directly facing her or looking in another direction or glanced at from the corner of her eye. But even with these half-gestures or avoidance of directly admitting/understanding her feelings towards Tohru she recognizes that she doesn't even recognize the person that she was before she was happy in this situation. Not that she'd ever admit that to Tohru.
Fafnir playing the straight man who doesn't get humans works alongside Tohru as the silly one who thinks she understands humans, turned in an interesting way when Fafnir brings up that she's starting to resemble humans and wonders if she'll be able to kill them when she goes back to her world and has to live in a place where dragons are hunted and killed by humans. Fafnir brings up the reality of the situation that Tohru is going to outlive Kobayashi and Tohru knows it. There's a very nice moment of Tohru turning from him and saying "Oh! Green means go!" and turning towards the camera, which breaks them from the shots they were proceeding in before where at the start of the conversation, the camera was far away, then drew in in closer and closer shots, sometimes being askew, sometimes being off-center or blurred (such as when she looks at the people across the street).
Which leads to a nice inferral that in order to get along with humans, or to become more like them and be able to live here, he should live with a human. And thus we get him involved with Takiya which was fairly obvious as all the dragons in the OP (kinda) have a human they are paired up with. Also follows suit because of the meeting at Kobayashi's house where they hit it off. I always enjoy Tohru being like "I'm not one to talk but this dude is super dangerous" and Fafnir being completely straight with his interest in games.
I always liked that super long scene involving the training to bend spoons when the punchline is basically "You can already bend spoons, why are you doing this?" Was funny in the manga too.
It also leads into another subdued moment of turning the joke into something serious when Kobayashi wonders why she cares so much and Tohru starts throwing a silly animated fit about not being inferior to humans until it closes up on her and tightens the animation to be more detailed and realistic as her VA gets more serious and hurt in tone. Tohru's pride is an attempt to bandage her inability to understand humans. Kobayashi does a good job calming her down and bringing her back to earth so she can understand her point from before by showing her exactly how the trick works. It leads to Tohru understanding but almost being...hurt? maybe embarrassed at her pride and Kobayashi's realization that Tohru's otherness (signified by looking at her tail) makes even the simplest understanding of humans difficult such that maybe her advice or wondering about Tohru just sticking to what she can do might have been the wrong things to say or a little too much for her; so Kobayashi wants to comfort her but has never really addressed Tohru with the same outgoingness or honesty that Tohru does for Kobayashi and just can't bring herself to do so with the sign of her reaching out and slowly pulling it back in by steps. Of course, Tohru's enthusiasm cannot keep her down for long (or allow her to address more serious matters) and Kobayashi sees her being happy again and decides to let sleeping dragons lie (and not address her inability to comfort Tohru) and it returns right back to the joke.
The OP and ED aren't amazing songs or anything, but the cuteness of both opening and ending keep it stuck in my head longer than it usually would. Seeing the girl dragons in cute chibi form is nice.
Looking forward to next episode where we learn about where Lucoa's been living which is pretty hilarious.
Have to admit the pre-opening intro actually got me to laugh just because of the timing of it being so quick. Stupid crows.
Relating back to last episode with the conversation between Kanna and Tohru, I think why I like this show also ties into the subtle ways that they use the drama/serious aspects of the show. It doesn't have tone whiplash, though I've always sorta hated that term as well as felt it was overused when shifting tones drastically is a really effective method of evoking an emotion in someone (but that's neither here nor there and an argument for another time), but instead keeps the same...laid back and calm tone whether it is funny or serious. So in this case it was small but I enjoyed the opening where saying it's been two months and then focusing close in on the smile pretty much told you all you needed to know about Kobayashi opening up and why people noticed it so much. Tohru imagining the kabedon and pounding in time to break the table was cute.
It's sort of amusing how Tohru admits that everyone in the office is working hard and off-handedly thinks that dragons are still better since they could destroy their civilization but then sees Kobayashi working hard and admires and thinks it's so great; love sure changes how you view things.
Once again, the focus on tight shots and the partiality of faces in a neutral tone gets across a ton of how they're saying things. Tohru's earnestness is something that Kobayashi has never been very direct in responding to so all of her dialogue is turned away from directly facing her or looking in another direction or glanced at from the corner of her eye. But even with these half-gestures or avoidance of directly admitting/understanding her feelings towards Tohru she recognizes that she doesn't even recognize the person that she was before she was happy in this situation. Not that she'd ever admit that to Tohru.
Fafnir playing the straight man who doesn't get humans works alongside Tohru as the silly one who thinks she understands humans, turned in an interesting way when Fafnir brings up that she's starting to resemble humans and wonders if she'll be able to kill them when she goes back to her world and has to live in a place where dragons are hunted and killed by humans. Fafnir brings up the reality of the situation that Tohru is going to outlive Kobayashi and Tohru knows it. There's a very nice moment of Tohru turning from him and saying "Oh! Green means go!" and turning towards the camera, which breaks them from the shots they were proceeding in before where at the start of the conversation, the camera was far away, then drew in in closer and closer shots, sometimes being askew, sometimes being off-center or blurred (such as when she looks at the people across the street).
Which leads to a nice inferral that in order to get along with humans, or to become more like them and be able to live here, he should live with a human. And thus we get him involved with Takiya which was fairly obvious as all the dragons in the OP (kinda) have a human they are paired up with. Also follows suit because of the meeting at Kobayashi's house where they hit it off. I always enjoy Tohru being like "I'm not one to talk but this dude is super dangerous" and Fafnir being completely straight with his interest in games.
I always liked that super long scene involving the training to bend spoons when the punchline is basically "You can already bend spoons, why are you doing this?" Was funny in the manga too.
It also leads into another subdued moment of turning the joke into something serious when Kobayashi wonders why she cares so much and Tohru starts throwing a silly animated fit about not being inferior to humans until it closes up on her and tightens the animation to be more detailed and realistic as her VA gets more serious and hurt in tone. Tohru's pride is an attempt to bandage her inability to understand humans. Kobayashi does a good job calming her down and bringing her back to earth so she can understand her point from before by showing her exactly how the trick works. It leads to Tohru understanding but almost being...hurt? maybe embarrassed at her pride and Kobayashi's realization that Tohru's otherness (signified by looking at her tail) makes even the simplest understanding of humans difficult such that maybe her advice or wondering about Tohru just sticking to what she can do might have been the wrong things to say or a little too much for her; so Kobayashi wants to comfort her but has never really addressed Tohru with the same outgoingness or honesty that Tohru does for Kobayashi and just can't bring herself to do so with the sign of her reaching out and slowly pulling it back in by steps. Of course, Tohru's enthusiasm cannot keep her down for long (or allow her to address more serious matters) and Kobayashi sees her being happy again and decides to let sleeping dragons lie (and not address her inability to comfort Tohru) and it returns right back to the joke.
The OP and ED aren't amazing songs or anything, but the cuteness of both opening and ending keep it stuck in my head longer than it usually would. Seeing the girl dragons in cute chibi form is nice.
Looking forward to next episode where we learn about where Lucoa's been living which is pretty hilarious.
I don't get that. It just seems cute as a button to me. That said now that everything's setup, they need somewhere to go with these differently abled students.
That's pretty much exactly how I've been feeling about it. It's just not really standing out in any way.
I wasn't really expecting maiddragon to be one of my fave kyoani series but it's steadily climbing up there
Gabchan 5
New angel really made everything more entertaining. I think my main problem with this is that gab herself is just not a proactive character so fully two fourths of the cast are just... Reacting to stuff most of the time.
Like, the scene with the new girl, Satania and sadist angel was great because it was all three personalities acting up.
Also unlike say, himouto, there's no 'core' of genuine emotional feeling that would give gabchan a more solid grounding. Oh well.
Akibas trip 4
This is really dumb which means it's okay to watch while I play fire emblem on my phone
Gabchan 5
New angel really made everything more entertaining. I think my main problem with this is that gab herself is just not a proactive character so fully two fourths of the cast are just... Reacting to stuff most of the time.
Like, the scene with the new girl, Satania and sadist angel was great because it was all three personalities acting up.
Also unlike say, himouto, there's no 'core' of genuine emotional feeling that would give gabchan a more solid grounding. Oh well.
Akibas trip 4
This is really dumb which means it's okay to watch while I play fire emblem on my phone
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Tiger Mask W 18
Where Miss X and Haruna get fed up with this and decide to beat the shit out of each other
Where Miss X and Haruna get fed up with this and decide to beat the shit out of each other
OniBarubary
Banned
Demi-chan works much better as a manga; there really isn't any main throughput so it's a whole lotta nothing and just sorta musings, which works really well in a setting where you can read a chapter in like 5 minutes but not so much when it's a 22 minute show.
I still like the manga a ton but I'd be hard-pressed to say there's a lot going on in it.
Edit: Jesus Christ, dem abs
I still like the manga a ton but I'd be hard-pressed to say there's a lot going on in it.
Edit: Jesus Christ, dem abs
Jex
Member
I've got a few points to make in response to your comments above, but for the sake of clarity I'm just going to roughly summarise what I believe your main point to be. You're saying that the series features a lot of internal monologues, these monologues aren't being depicted in a visually interesting manner and therefore you're questioning why experiencing this story through the medium of anime as composed to some other format. My thoughts on your points are as follows:Scum's Wish 5
I'm not really sure how I feel about the adaptation now, particularly after talking about it a few days ago here and letting it breathe a bit. In many ways, cuts like this makes the show feel like Monogatari, but it doesn't quite work for me. Perhaps the biggest difference is that Monogatari's scenes are almost always dialogues, while these scenes are all monologues. So in Monogatari I'm learning new information about both the plot and the various characters' state of mind, where in Scum's Wish, I'm supposed to be enveloped in whatever misery the current character is feeling at the moment.
But while I think it worked in the first couple of episodes since you're essentially stuck in Hana's head and the oppressiveness of her thoughts worked well, when you have the focus split between three or four characters, it begins to feel like free indirect discourse. Which is interesting to watch in a TV show, I suppose, but it also makes me wonder if this wouldn't be a better experience if I was reading it rather than passively watching it. The scenes with Mugi and the teacher from this episode in particular feel like I'm "watching a book", for lack of a better way to describe it.
- I think the earlier episodes, especially the 1st episode, were better directed and as a result of this better direction all these aforementioned internal monologues were more interesting. There was not only more going on visually, but aurally as well, to suture the audience into these characters and give us the same experiences they were having. I think that's the show is at its best when you're uncomfortably close to these people.
- There are lots of other visual techniques I feel like the series could be using to tackle this material such as: symbolic imagery, colour/lighting choices, expressionistic mise-en-scene, extremely subjective cinematography, fanciful visions imaged inside the minds of characters – the possibilities are endless. But the direction seems to want to remain fairly grounded in the ‘real world' and so instead you have stuff like ”plain text on the screen" as in your above screenshot, which isn't really very interesting. I think that you can only really get away with stuff like that if your name is Hideki Anno.
- Even with the somewhat restrained nature of the direction I still find myself interested in these scenes and therefore there is some merit in having them depicted in this fashion, even if it's clear the show could do more.
I think there's probably a number of factors that go into the show's depiction of sex, but I would have to guess that the key ones are:
- Avoiding any imagery that objectifies the characters through revealing imagery of camerawork. The show never feels like its exploiting the characters, even though we're experiencing very intimate moments with them.
- You probably don't want to get very explicit when you're depicting characters of this age engaging in sexual activity.
- If a scene causes the intended response in a viewer, then is it really necessary to me more explicit anyway? Do you understand what the characters were feeling in that moment and what it meant for them? If so, then arguably the scene has done its job.
- Cultural norms regarding the depiction of sex.
I haven't watched a single bad KyoAni show.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I have.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
There are few straight up bad KyoAni shows because of their artistic merits...
but theres also Lucky Star and some keyshit
There are lots to choose from if you want.
There's only one I've seen that I can say is actually bad. Everything else ranges from pretty good to some of my favourite anime ever.
OniBarubary
Banned
The 2nd Season of Love Chuuni was pretty fucking garbage, but I liked Amagi Brilliant Park so what the fuck do I know?
Dedication Through Light
Member
Thankfully no one said Free!.
nintendoman58
Member
uh oh, you said the word.
Scum's Wish #5
All caught up now.
I'm in love with this show and it's writing. This is the first anime I've watched that really captures the awkwardness of teenage sexuality and adolescence. The direction probably could be stronger though, as some of those internal monologues could be better served with better visual cues and stylistic cuts.
I also managed to get my best friend who has never watched anime before into the show. So there's that.
All caught up now.
I'm in love with this show and it's writing. This is the first anime I've watched that really captures the awkwardness of teenage sexuality and adolescence. The direction probably could be stronger though, as some of those internal monologues could be better served with better visual cues and stylistic cuts.
I also managed to get my best friend who has never watched anime before into the show. So there's that.
8 X 11 Printer Paper
Member
Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai!, Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai! S2, Musaigen no Phantom World, Kyoukai no Kanata, Suzumiya Haruhi S2 and so on...
OniBarubary
Banned
Hey, season 1 of Chuuni wasn't so bad
8 X 11 Printer Paper
Member
It only made me want to punch someone instead of strangling someone like S2 did....so in those terms I guess it wasn't so bad.
I've watched two of those, Phantom World and KnK, I know they're not highly regarded but they were still fun for the most part. I mean, I was half joking but I truly enjoy KyoAni's output. Even these two, I think they're flawed but good, not outright bad.
But I forgot that they're responsible for Clannad and Kanon...
Demichan 5
The conversation with the parents really did sound like the differently able interpretation is intentional... At which point I kinda think someone should just straight up make an anime about people who are differently able... Maybe I should replay katawa shoujo...
The bit at the end would have been super creepy except that teach was one hundred percent awked out throughout that whole scene.
I agree that overall the show is a bit too slow and contemplative with not much behind it beyond the basics... It's pleasant enough but I can't say it stands out much
The conversation with the parents really did sound like the differently able interpretation is intentional... At which point I kinda think someone should just straight up make an anime about people who are differently able... Maybe I should replay katawa shoujo...
The bit at the end would have been super creepy except that teach was one hundred percent awked out throughout that whole scene.
I agree that overall the show is a bit too slow and contemplative with not much behind it beyond the basics... It's pleasant enough but I can't say it stands out much
nintendoman58
Member
While I'm not the one to ever cry out "K-ON!/MOESHIT KILLED KYOANI AND ALSO ANIME", I always can't help but feel a little miffed how in their shadow the Full Metal Panic shows KyoAni did seem to be.
Like, somebody brings up KyoAni and it's always about Hyouka, K-ON!, Euphonium, and now Maid Dragon. Which is all fine, since those are popular and well done shows, but it's a damn shame Full Metal Panic barely gets any recognition when it comes to them.
And with Xebec making season four it looks like it'll even get less recognition.
Like, somebody brings up KyoAni and it's always about Hyouka, K-ON!, Euphonium, and now Maid Dragon. Which is all fine, since those are popular and well done shows, but it's a damn shame Full Metal Panic barely gets any recognition when it comes to them.
And with Xebec making season four it looks like it'll even get less recognition.
MikeHattsu
Member
Some of their best work
Jex
Member
I can give you a list, if you'd like?
Jex
Member
While there are certainly many areas for improvement in regards to direction I do feel like the series largely nails the tone its going for successfully. There are so many other ways this could have been depicted that would have felt very, er 'anime', but it managed to avoid stepping into those pitfalls.
(Although I guess it does move closer to something like a J-Drama, lol)
hosannainexcelsis
Member
That's because, aside from the temporal distance, KyoAni's two FMP seasons are fine but not particularly exceptional production-wise. They don't stand out in the way KyoAni productions began to stand out around 2009. You still hear old-school anime fans bring up Fumoffu every now and again though.
Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu 2003
Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid 2005
Hyouka 2012
Eupohnium 2015
Maid Dragon 2017
It shouldn't be a surprise or even anything worth any ire either. It's a completely different type of show with the Gonzo barrier of entry that's as long as both Kyoani works, Kyoani hasn't made any of it for 12 years now, the majority of fans don't stick with the hobby long term so aren't around to wave the flag for it, and it never had the same sort of cultural cachet or crossover appeal of other shows in the same genre.
OniBarubary
Banned
That and I liked Fumoffu better than either FMP or Second Raid
nintendoman58
Member
I get that they're old shows and would be easily forgotten given that they're different from the other stuff KyoAni did, but I feel like with so many people giving such mass praise to KyoAni so often it'd get a little more recognition than it does.
But yeah the Gonzo barrier to entry certainly doesn't help at all in that regard.
Here's your problem. You're reading Kyoani as just that rather than what people intend which is "Kyoani (2009 - Current)."
The reverse happened with DEEN for a while there when people would lol at DEEN shows but referred to a certain run of time despite them being behind stuff that's not just memorable but some of the best anime ever.
I was getting there!!!!!!!
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Or Munto!
Admiral Woofington
Member
oh hey
The Nice Guys is in HBO Now. Might as well watch it, heard good things.
The Nice Guys is in HBO Now. Might as well watch it, heard good things.
If you like it, and haven't watched Kiss Kiss Bang Bang yet, then please do.
MAL likes it
aka 4th highest rated show of the season and highest rated show that isn't a sequel
This is not a high bar
Not that my taste are all that refined considering:
Youjo Senki 6
I still like it, but I have no idea why.
Admiral Woofington
Member
If you like it, and haven't watched Kiss Kiss Bang Bang yet, then please do.
I HAVE seen Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. Fantastic. Though it's been a while.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Trickster Episode 16 The Beast Reborn
The game they were playing to give us Koba's memories was excellent. I liked how they did that instead of throwing us into a random flashback. I wonder how many episodes until they decide to fully detail it.
Poor Koba.
The game they were playing to give us Koba's memories was excellent. I liked how they did that instead of throwing us into a random flashback. I wonder how many episodes until they decide to fully detail it.
Poor Koba.
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