Actually potpourri starts badly ..but she quickly obtain her counterpart and that makes her much more bearable.
One thing to note with precure , is that when they are paired with a mascot , the package precure+mascot is the whole package.. because that mascot is a friend and both characters are the same entity.
That's why porun is so hated ( except cajunator ).. he spend his time alone with no counterpart for almost 48 episodes !! ( dammit that's long ).
Potpourri on the other hand is a real baby , honnest even But will get better because she will not wonder helplessly in your anime. So don't worry , you'll love potpourri in less than 5 episodes.
Yes, when you compare to how Ussop was at the beginning to how he is now, it's not even a contest who's had the bigger char development compared to the other crew members.
Perhaps I've just been brainwashed by seeing the television series roughly times, and End of Evangelion three times, but I imagine if Mature encountered the film again me may have a different impression about how consistent the characterisation is across the series.
Alternatively I'm just a raving fanboy whose only a few more viewings and an essay off from being a member of evageeks and you shouldn't heed anything I say.
It was seen first at the LD release. The 'GENESIS' version, that included the feature film episodes 25' & 26' along the series ones that are episode 25 & 26. The on-air version featured quick cuts of static sketchy Shinji images along the narration.
Ah, I hadn't heard of those AMVs before! Thank you! It's the one about Asuka, right? I found it (not on youtube). It's great! I like this much, much better than the video that plays in the background every time I go to karaoke. It should probably carry a seizure warning, though.
Thanks for the info about the LD. I have the original American DVD release and I'm think it's not there, but I'm pretty sure it's on either the director's cut or the platinum edition ones, because I do remember seeing it.
Actually potpourri starts badly ..but she quickly obtain her counterpart and that makes her much more bearable.
One thing to note with precure , is that when they are paired with a mascot , the package precure+mascot is the whole package.. because that mascot is a friend and both characters are the same entity.
That's why porun is so hated ( except cajunator ).. he spend his time alone with no counterpart for almost 48 episodes !! ( dammit that's long ).
Potpourri on the other hand is a real baby , honnest even But will get better because she will not wonder helplessly in your anime. So don't worry , you'll love potpourri in less than 5 episodes.
Your theory is wrong. Mascots are introduced then gradually pushed to the background as the focus returns to the main characters, which is why they become more bearable. The Shitstain Known As Porun only avoids ruining Futari wa Precure because he stops getting as much screentime. Potpourri may not be as bad as Porun, but still falls under "annoying mascot" like all the rest.
'Au contraire !' They were already a revision to begin with (specially episode 26). After that, and as the very same Mr. Anno aptly said; "Episodes 25 and 26 as broadcast on TV accurately reflect my mood at the time. I am very satisfied. I regret nothing"... why change what is already right in the eyes of its creator, my friend?
Ah, I hadn't heard of those AMVs before! Thank you! It's the one about Asuka, right? I found it (not on youtube). It's great! I like this much, much better than the video that plays in the background every time I go to karaoke. It should probably carry a seizure warning, though.
Yeah, that is the one. So nice, the NEON GENESIS EVANGELION MUSIC DVD (http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B000GG4CMK/) was definitely a quite original addition to the project's merchandise, as a more conscious self-hommage.
Thanks for the info about the LD. I have the original American DVD release and I'm think it's not there, but I'm pretty sure it's on either the director's cut or the platinum edition ones, because I do remember seeing it.
Your theory is wrong. Mascots are introduced then gradually pushed to the background as the focus returns to the main characters, which is why they become more bearable. The Shitstain Known As Porun only avoids ruining Futari wa Precure because he stops getting as much screentime. Potpourri may not be as bad as Porun, but still falls under "annoying mascot" like all the rest.
Well when they are paired with a precure , the mascot don't use as much as focus on the story , ok it' s natural to think so since the precure take the spotlight..but having someone to keep them in check is (for me ) where the magic trully is.
Mepple has nagisa telling him to shut up ..for example.
And in case where you have mascots ( that don't eat that much screentime ) like the 2nd half of precure splashstar, they still are babies and annoying each time they appear regardless of their screen time. You feel like they serve no purpose except to be power-up .. there is no chemistry with them .. no "tsukomi-boke", nothing..
Potpourri quickly
find peace once she find her cure , and move on after she get her . She starts as a whinny cry baby and then has as much screen time as the rest of the mascots.
My theory is that "mascots" are better when paired with someone.Potpourri character changed once that happenned.
Porun would have been much better if she had someone to keep her in check.And even Shinny luminous didn't manage that because she was independant both in fighting and in term of character interractions .
'Au contraire !' They were already a revision to begin with (specially episode 26). After that, and as the very same Mr. Anno aptly said; "Episodes 25 and 26 as broadcast on TV accurately reflect my mood at the time. I am very satisfied. I regret nothing"... why change what is already right in the eyes of its creator, my friend?
And this is why I can't consider Anno to be the Japanese George Lucas, haha.
Yeah, that is the one. So nice, the NEON GENESIS EVANGELION MUSIC DVD (http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B000GG4CMK/) was definitely a quite original addition to the project's merchandise, as a more conscious self-hommage.
Ah, I think the original American dvds had the on air previews too. I meant it didn't have the 30sec production fight version. But I would also have to dig them out and check. =P I'll just look it up on evageeks if I decide I care enough.
Because I was monumentally confused by the end of EoE as well, I'm gonna say that narrative-wise, Eva could have ended with 25-26 and it would have delivered the same conclusion.
But, EoE has the EVA-02 vs Mass production fight. That scene alone makes the whole movie worth it.
EoE is like if someone tried to make a movie that explains the second half of 2001. The Space Baby is a Space Baby. Why can't we just leave things alone?
All this eva talk has reminded me that I'm not actually sure what content I haven't seen yet. I've seen the original series, death and rebirth, EoE, and the first 2 rebuild movies. So that leaves some director's cut episodes of the show, REVIVAL, and the third rebuild movie right? Can anyone shed some light on whether those episodes or REVIVAL are worthwhile? Any substantial changes or are they just minor touch ups with redone scenes?
While we're at it does anyone have any thoughts on the original Eva manga? I hear it's STILL going and supposedly goes in a very different direction than the show, is it worth picking up? Sorry for all the questions but googling it gets me mixed responses, thanks!
Oh yeah. A friend of mine did some looking around for me, and discovered that both Yuyushiki and Aiura have both OP and ED singles. And since 5 minute series don't usually have EDs, it's likely that both are full-length series, not shorts. We're not 100% certain yet, but it seems likely.
Yuyushiki being full-length would be particularly great news (for me at least). So hyped.
While we're at it does anyone have any thoughts on the original Eva manga? I hear it's STILL going and supposedly goes in a very different direction than the show, is it worth picking up? Sorry for all the questions but googling it gets me mixed responses, thanks!
The Eva manga is... weird. It technically does things very differently from the anime at times, but then Sadamoto wimps out and ends up sticking with the original series for the big events afterwards. That has resulted in some tacked on developments and even sloppily retconning manga Asuka's backstory to make her closer to the anime. The manga also has much more clear exposition on some plot elements which are relevant to the anime but never directly explained and elaborated to the viewer, like SEELE.
Look at the first half of Rebuild 2.0 for something similar. You've got new elements thrown in, and even the personality of some characters modified, but they don't lead to any new developments and everyone follows the original outline in spite of those changes. Of course, Rebuild then does go on in a completely different direction with its ending and the following movies, while the manga just follows the tv and eventually End of Eva, in spite of itself.
The manga is also big on Rei x Shinji, so if you like that, you get many extra "moments".
The Eva manga is... weird. It technically does things very differently from the anime at times, but then Sadamoto wimps out and ends up sticking with the original series for the big events afterwards. That has resulted in some tacked on developments and even sloppily retconning manga Asuka's backstory to make her closer to the anime. The manga also has much more clear exposition on some plot elements which are relevant to the anime but never directly explained and elaborated to the viewer, like SEELE.
Look at the first half of Rebuild 2.0 for something similar. You've got new elements thrown in, and even the personality of some characters modified, but they don't lead to any new developments and everyone follows the original outline in spite of those changes. Of course, Rebuild then does go on in a completely different direction with its ending and the following movies, while the manga just follows the tv and eventually End of Eva, in spite of itself.
The manga is also big on Rei x Shinji, so if you like that, you get many extra "moments".
Ah, shame to hear but good to know. I might still pick it up but it's definitely a lot lower on the backlog now. At least now I won't be disappointed or surprised when it ends up strictly following the original plot. Also I've always found shipping kind of hilarious for a show like Eva, thanks for the heads up though!
All this eva talk has reminded me that I'm not actually sure what content I haven't seen yet. I've seen the original series, death and rebirth, EoE, and the first 2 rebuild movies. So that leaves some director's cut episodes of the show, REVIVAL, and the third rebuild movie right? Can anyone shed some light on whether those episodes or REVIVAL are worthwhile? Any substantial changes or are they just minor touch ups with redone scenes?
While we're at it does anyone have any thoughts on the original Eva manga? I hear it's STILL going and supposedly goes in a very different direction than the show, is it worth picking up? Sorry for all the questions but googling it gets me mixed responses, thanks!
The manga is pretty entertaining, but the Rebuild movies work in some scenes of Shinji being a badass, which was arguably the reason to read it in the first place, so read it if you wanna see Kaworu
kill some cats,
I guess. (There's also some serious Shinji x Kaworu fanservice, if you're into that.)
I think revival contains all the director's cuts? They're worth watching instead of the originals, they clear up some things, but I don't know how much of the footage was in death. There are only 4 of them, so watch them if you want, I guess. You might not even notice the differences unless you've seen the series recently or had some nagging questions about your interpretation of a certain scene.
The manga is pretty entertaining, but the Rebuild movies work in some scenes of Shinji being a badass, which was arguably the reason to read it in the first place, so read it if you wanna see Kaworu
kill some cats,
I guess. (There's also some serious Shinji x Kaworu fanservice, if you're into that.)
I think revival contains all the director's cuts? They're worth watching instead of the originals, they clear up some things, but I don't know how much of the footage was in death. There are only 4 of them, so watch them if you want, I guess. You might not even notice the differences unless you've seen the series recently or had some nagging questions about your interpretation of a certain scene.
Oh man, one more ship and Shinji will apparently be a harem lead in the manga, always good to see Shinji grow a spine though. I thought REVIVAL was specifically a final cut for the 2 original movies, I could be wrong though. Either way it doesn't look like I'm missing much then, thanks for letting me know!
Definitely want to see rebuild 3 but no theaters near me have screened it and no disc release yet, just gotta play the waiting game. :/
Oh man, one more ship and Shinji will apparently be a harem lead in the manga, always good to see Shinji grow a spine though. I thought REVIVAL was specifically a final cut for the 2 original movies, I could be wrong though. Either way it doesn't look like I'm missing much then, thanks for letting me know!
I was under the impression that REVIVAL was a (remastered?) DVD set that included the director's cut version of the series (and I think the "originals" as well?) and, the version of DEATH with the footage that was inserted into the Director's cut taken out, and End of Eva, with Rebirth missing. (Did you know that Manga Ent's version of Rebirth is not the same as the original Jaoanese version? Apparently their cut had a bunch of differences, and a completely different audio track, while ours was just the first bit of EoE copy-pasted over.)
Oh, that set is called the RENEWAL set. It apparently contains the reVival movie versions as the definitive ones. Man, fuck eva and their incessant need to add Re to everything. Scene from ReDeath: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RsepQh342g
God knows what happened to this to turn it into an Anime Mirai project. This was supposed to be a full TV series originally, right? Or at least an OVA.
Whatever it was, yeeeesh, the pacing. It's like they've crammed two or three episodes worth of... stuff into this. It's like kitchen sink anime - sibling drama! Incest vibes! Explosions! Conspiracy! Philosophy! Fanservice! etc.
It's just waaaay too much for one episode, and it's pretty much ridiculous as a result. It's like a pilot, I guess - but not a very good one. Having typed all of the above, I had no idea that this was a light novel series already, which would explain why there's so much plot crammed in here - but as such it seems like a complete waste of time as an Anime Mirai project rather than doing something self-contained. Maybe ZEXCS had to do something with the rights they'd licensed?
Anyway, from a technical perspective, there are actually some kind-of nice things about this short. I really like the crayon shading on the characters; it reminds me of a less moe Saikano. There's also some interesting moments that I think may be CG-assisted - Shiki, the female lead, tries to describe what it's like to not know whether you're left or right-handed, and there's a visualisation of her hands moving around somewhat without co-ordination that seems just too smooth to be entirely 2D but is interesting nonetheless. There's also some good background art.
In general, though, I wouldn't want to use this as a showcase piece for my talents. I guess it proves that these junior animators are perfectly competent and capable of working at any studio, and maybe that's all you want to do, but the quality reminds me of something like Guilty Crown in that it's above average but not daring or impressive at all.
Well, I had to give it a go. I've always liked the idea of Fairy Tail as a shounen adventure story.
I guess it's pretty much what I expected it would be. I absolutely agree with cosmic that it's great to have a second half which is basically nothing but battles - for someone who doesn't really know much about Fairy Tail, there was some nice variety in tactics and attacks. I didn't actually enjoy the ultimate battle at the end but there's no denying that it's pretty well executed.
Plus there was a lovely Utena ripoff moment,
even if it was spoilt a little by the character in question only winning her duel because her utmost desire is to get married. Not as bad as the irritating misuse of "thy" in the subtitles, though
.
With that said, I don't feel like there's any comparison to Baron Omatsuri. Omatsuri is so much more creative visually - even if the story isn't great, which it isn't really here either - that it appeals much more to me as a standalone kind of thing. The Fairy Tale movie looks and feels like a well-animated episode of the TV series, and to me that's not so appealing. Nothing about it much stands out - it's just... there.
I'm too dumb to join the Evangelion discussion proper, but I'll just say that I watched it in the order TV1-26 (switching in director's cut episodes where necessary) --> EoE --> 1.11 --> 2.22, and I thought that worked fine for me; I don't feel like I missed anything.
edit: oh, speaking of Evangelion, I just saw this for Australian fans, so if you live near where it's going to show up, I suppose it might be worth taking a look.
MELBOURNE, Friday, 15 March 2013: Madman Entertainment presents, in conjunction with NTV Films, Groundworks and the Japan Foundation Sydney, the 2013 EVANGELION ART EXHIBITION Australian Tour.
With exhibition partners, The Arts Centre Gold Coast and No Vacancy Gallery, Melbourne, this exclusive exhibition will offer anime/manga, sci-fi and pop culture fans of all ages a unique and extensive insight into how the famed EVANGELION animated films were created – showcasing a collection of original concept and production art, character drawings and other key artefacts that provide a rare and fascinating glimpse at the behind the scenes artistry of Japanese anime film production.
A variety of rare and valuable EVANGELION books, tapestries and other items will also be on display at the exhibition and a limited selection of EVANGELION: 3.0 YOU CAN (NOT) REDO merchandise will be available for purchase. These items were previously only available in Japan in conjunction with the cinema campaign for EVANGELION: 3.0 YOU CAN (NOT) REDO and are exclusive to the EVANGELION ART EXHIBITION TOUR.
The exhibition will be on display at the Arts Centre Gold Coast from 17th April – 5th May, followed by Sydney at the Japan Foundation Gallery from May 10th – May 18th (Open Monday – Saturdays, 11am-4pm), and finally in Melbourne at No Vacancy Gallery from May 27th – June 9th.
I'm too dumb to join the Evangelion discussion proper, but I'll just say that I watched it in the order TV1-26 (switching in director's cut episodes where necessary) --> EoE --> 1.11 --> 2.22, and I thought that worked fine for me; I don't feel like I missed anything.
I think that's reasonable, and probably how I'll end up. I think the various permutations are usually just treated as the curiosities they are, existing as fluff for those who are suitably invested.
I think you're on point with most of what you say, especially in terms of love, and its consequences for the characters. I'm not sure if I really picked up on how widely that applies when I watched it.
As I was making my final sprint for the end of Utena, icarus-daedelus mentioned the cookies-and-tea scene and the badminton scene in Episode 37 specifically, so I tried to look at both of them more closely in my impressions at that time, before I watched the final episode. I don't think I necessarily nailed it, but trying to figure them out told me a lot about how the characters developed from the ideal roles they were aiming for.
I've only seen Utena once, though, so what do I know?
Anyway, congratulations on finishing. It's a pretty fantastic series.
One thing in your post that I actually never considered was
the analogy of the Rose Bride and how the thorns that torment her also hurt those close to her. Perhaps that's why all of the duelists keep their emotional distance from her. Saionji I remember once said something about how he too once cared about how the Rose Bride felt. Not not anymore. And I think with that analogy, that actually now makes a bit more sense. He (possibly along with the other duelists) once tried to get close to Anthy, but her thorns ended up hurting them. So now they treat her as an object of sorts as a way to protect themselves.
Except Miki. He loves her. But IIRC, he never possessed the Rose Bride, so he was never hurt by her. And that's why he treats her differently from the rest.
I really enjoy talking about this show and sharing my thoughts. Later on I'll take a browse through the link Jexhuis posted. Like I said in my impressions, it's been a long time since anything prompted me to write this much about it.
Except Miki. He loves her. But IIRC, he never possessed the Rose Bride, so he was never hurt by her. And that's why he treats her differently from the rest.
never really loved Anthy. He loved the sensations Anthy generated in himself, which reminded him of the time he used to play piano with Kozue. Every duelist in the show is a selfish prick regarding the Rose Bride. Miki is the closest thing we get to someone caring about her besides Utena, but he is ultimately swindled by others and manipulated into dueling when he had no intention to do so.
The bane of the Rose Bride is that the Duelists are bound to objectify her in order to gain her, which is anathema to how they should be approaching this plot about getting Anthy out of her coffin. It is a deliberate system set up by Akio so that he can keep control on the Rose Bride and the ones who play around her. In feminist terms, he's THE MAN.
There are plenty of points where he's being a badass, but also places where he's even more intolerable than in the series. When the hell did Shinji get so clingy?
I didn't say it was consistent. =P
Edit: off to the city to see Poppy Hill. Hope it's entertaining. =<
There are plenty of points where he's being a badass, but also places where he's even more intolerable than in the series. When the hell did Shinji get so clingy?
Shinji's actions in You Can (Not) Advance were actually a really fucking bad deal and pretty selfish in their own regard. If there's anything Eva is keen on, it is that eschewing the world for whatever reason is the worst thing you can do (in Shinji's case, saving Rei while disregarding the well-being of everybody fucking else starting Third Fucking Impact.
He is a more proactive character, but Anno is clear on making the point that his actions are not an admirable trait to follow. That's why I can't call him badarse.
never really loved Anthy. He loved the sensations Anthy generated in himself, which reminded him of the time he used to play piano with Kozue. Every duelist in the show is a selfish prick regarding the Rose Bride. Miki is the closest thing we get to someone caring about her besides Utena, but he is ultimately swindled by others and manipulated into dueling when he had no intention to do so.
The bane of the Rose Bride is that the Duelists are bound to objectify her in order to gain her, which is anathema to how they should be approaching this plot about getting Anthy out of her coffin. It is a deliberate system set up by Akio so that he can keep control on the Rose Bride and the ones who play around her. In feminist terms, he's THE MAN.
I suppose all he ever wanted to do with Anthy was play piano with her. That being said, I don't really consider him in the same league as the others in regards to Anthy. As was shown in Ep.4 I believe, he had something of a crush on Anthy before he ever even knew she played piano. And I do think that his never having possessed Anthy and being hurt by her is a major factor in how he treats her differently from the others..
But I think that badminton scene that was in sonic's post is indicative of what you're saying. The whole thing seemed to mean Utena, Miki, and Juri (hell, even Nanami) moving on from the impulses that pushed them toward trying to win the Rose Bride. And to Miki, this means that's he's gotten over Anthy.
I'm not sure I put this the best way I could have. I just got up two hours ago and haven't had anything to eat.
Edit: And Regulus, can I ask what you meant last night when you said you were reading the Tropes vs. Women in Vidya Games thread?
With that said, I don't feel like there's any comparison to Baron Omatsuri. Omatsuri is so much more creative visually - even if the story isn't great, which it isn't really here either - that it appeals much more to me as a standalone kind of thing. The Fairy Tale movie looks and feels like a well-animated episode of the TV series, and to me that's not so appealing. Nothing about it much stands out - it's just... there.
I was only comparing it to Baron Omatsuri in the sense it's a movie of a long-running shounen with a respectable director non-fans like. They're completely different kinds of movies that set out to accomplish completely different things. Phoneix Priestess is definitely more standard of the genre.
Well, it wasn't the worst 36 minutes of my life. That's about all the only positive thing I can say about this show. If it were any longer, and if the sister's voice was even slightly more annoying... Well, I probably still would've finished it, but that's just me. Mediocre-to-bad seems to be the general pattern for shows with "sister" in the title, but I watch them all anyway.
One thing in your post that I actually never considered was
the analogy of the Rose Bride and how the thorns that torment her also hurt those close to her. Perhaps that's why all of the duelists keep their emotional distance from her. Saionji I remember once said something about how he too once cared about how the Rose Bride felt. Not not anymore. And I think with that analogy, that actually now makes a bit more sense. He (possibly along with the other duelists) once tried to get close to Anthy, but her thorns ended up hurting them. So now they treat her as an object of sorts as a way to protect themselves.
Except Miki. He loves her. But IIRC, he never possessed the Rose Bride, so he was never hurt by her. And that's why he treats her differently from the rest.
I really enjoy talking about this show and sharing my thoughts. Later on I'll take a browse through the link Jexhuis posted. Like I said in my impressions, it's been a long time since anything prompted me to write this much about it.
I think something to keep in mind is that Utena, for much of the series, isn't that different from any of the other duelists. Everyone is putting themselves on the line for an ideal, and winning Anthy is just a part of that. And as you learn later on, even when Utena is trying to get Anthy to open up and 'set her free', she's still controlling her just as Saionji or Touga did. So it's as you said. She's an object to them. They don't love her enough to grasp her thorns.
So what eventually sets Utena apart, and what pushes her past an ideal archetype, is that she's willing to give everything she is to Anthy, and willing to take everything Anthy is, good and bad. And that's what happens in the ending.
A prince controls and shapes the world to his wishes. A princess is a prize to be won, shaped by those around her. Love does not coerce, and it does not concede. It allows both parties to be who they are without judgment. It is painful, but it also has the power to change the world.
I'm not sure if I'm making sense either. Utena is a really rewarding show, both in the moment and as a whole.
I think something to keep in mind is that Utena, for much of the series, isn't that different from any of the other duelists. Everyone is putting themselves on the line for an ideal, and winning Anthy is just a part of that. And as you learn later on, even when Utena is trying to get Anthy to open up and 'set her free', she's still controlling her just as Saionji or Touga did. So it's as you said. She's an object to them. They don't love her enough to grasp her thorns.
I was only comparing it to Baron Omatsuri in the sense it's a movie of a long-running shounen with a respectable director non-fans like. They're completely different kinds of movies that set out to accomplish completely different things. Phoneix Priestess is definitely more standard of the genre.
One thing in your post that I actually never considered was
the analogy of the Rose Bride and how the thorns that torment her also hurt those close to her. Perhaps that's why all of the duelists keep their emotional distance from her. Saionji I remember once said something about how he too once cared about how the Rose Bride felt. Not not anymore.
It's episode 25 where he says that, but he also says why - because "the Rose Bride has no will of her own". Saionji has never been close to Anthy. None of them have been - she represents what is unattainable for them. He isn't distanced from her by the thorns of the rose - he is distant from her because she is a symbol to him. He doesn't want Anthy - she wants what she can potentially give him, "something eternal".
And I think with that analogy, that actually now makes a bit more sense. He (possibly along with the other duelists) once tried to get close to Anthy, but her thorns ended up hurting them. So now they treat her as an object of sorts as a way to protect themselves.
Miki and Nanami have personal reasons to duel over Anthy, I'll give you that. But Juri? Touga, even? She is nothing but an object to them; I can't imagine them ever having bothered to get close to her. End of the World dictates when the duels happen - without those, they would have no reason to even speak to Anthy.
It's barely even Anthy that Juri wants - what she wants is to beat Utena, to disprove the power of Dios and the power of miracles with it. Yes, Anthy baits her into slapping her in episode 7, but that is to deliberately hurt her and provoke a duel - not because Juri tried to get close to her.
And Touga... Touga wants what she symbolises, yes - power - but in every universe of the series what he really wants is what he absolutely cannot have - Utena herself.
Except Miki. He loves her. But IIRC, he never possessed the Rose Bride, so he was never hurt by her. And that's why he treats her differently from the rest.
Miki is absolutely hurt by Anthy. In fact, she hurts him more directly than anyone else in the show.
He loses his first duel because she cheers Utena on. He loses his second duel because Kozue seduces her. Far more so than the other Duellists, Miki is the one that Anthy hurts the most directly.
Compare his duels to:
Saionji - loses both duels to "the power of Dios" and Utena's own skill
Juri - loses to a miracle and her obsession with Shiori
Nanami - loses due to being crap and then eventually feeling as though she has nothing left to duel for
If anything, Anthy is the cruellest to him of all of them.
She certainly starts off trying to get Anthy to act in a way that is acceptable to her, and hell, she's just using her for most of the series so she can get to the prince, even if she thinks their goals are mutual. I think Utena slowly realizes that Anthy needs to stand up for herself, though, and Anthy slowly realizes that Utena just wants her to be herself.
Shinji's actions in You Can (Not) Advance were actually a really fucking bad deal and pretty selfish in their own regard. If there's anything Eva is keen on, it is that eschewing the world for whatever reason is the worst thing you can do (in Shinji's case, saving Rei while disregarding the well-being of everybody fucking else starting Third Fucking Impact.
He is a more proactive character, but Anno is clear on making the point that his actions are not an admirable trait to follow. That's why I can't call him badarse.
No, I agree with you that he makes some terrible fucking decisions (this is a serious pattern with him in rebuild) but the fact that he stands up for himself is at least respectable, even if he goes about it the wrong way. He mostly felt like a doormat in the show. And doesn't he
try to punch Gendo
in one of the new movies? Or did I imagine it? Haha.
