Support NeoGAF

[orthodoxy1095]

This feels like an extremely odd opinion to me, but it's also incredibly interesting to me:

Not only was this not in any of the trailers, it doesn’t even make sense. The narrative by this point has become disjointed to the point of nigh incomprehension, leaving you with only the most elliptical explanation for where you are or what has happened. You’re alone, frustrated, storming the enemy stronghold in what should be the climactic moment of the game, and nobody, not even the game developers, have bothered to show up.

By all rights, I should hate this whole slog, and I imagine most people playing it did. After all, the idea to patch it had to have come from somewhere. Instead, I think I love it. It’s a brilliant moment of what I’m tempted to call anti-design: a game section so oddly placed and so bad by the standards of the rest that it produces emotions intensely and fascinatingly divergent from what seem to be the stated goals of the game.

It isn’t good design, not by the standards of the rest of Final Fantasy XV, but it is interesting design, remaining playable while also pushing the player toward extremes of negative emotion that are intriguing to experience in their own right. Good art doesn’t have to make us feel good, it just has to make us feel, preferably in a way that surprises and disarms us. Even if it’s a complete accident, Chapter 13 meets those standards.

That’s why I’m saddened by the development team’s ambitions to patch the section, making it easier and likely much less frustrating. Not because it wouldn’t make the game better—if your interest is in making a game that’s quick, fun, and makes you feel good, then changing the section would absolutely make it better—but because in the process I’m worried we’ll lose something singular and fascinating. The moments most worthwhile in games, by my estimation, are the moments that stick out from the whole. These moments shock us, confuse us, or delight us. Sometimes they’re triumphs. Sometimes they’re mistakes. But they’re always worth experiencing and talking about.

https://www.wired.com/2016/12/final-fantasy-xv-patch/

Patch me if old.

 

[Kyrios]

"If I had to suffer through it, so does everyone else!"

But seriously I'm actually very interested to see what this infamous chapter is like when I get to it.

 

[Grim Patron]

Still baffles me how it got through QA like that. Biggest shitshow in FF in a long time. Even chocobo racing in FFX was more fun.

 

[Neoleo2143]

No. Patch that Shit.

 

[robotrock]

Play the unpatched version imo

 

[Kouriozan]

I liked Chapter 13, nice change of pace, maybe a little bit too long.

 

[Astral Dog]

They wont do much anyways

 

[Omega Kirby]

Patch the game out of the game

 

[ViciousDS]

I liked 13......it was just a tad too long. But the whole point of the chapter I loved.

 

[notaskwid]

Still baffles me how it got through QA like that. Biggest shitshow in FF in a long time. Even chocobo racing in FFX was more fun.

 

[jiggle]

The place is not even bad if you are high enough level

 

[Astral Dog]

Replace it with a cutscene

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Man now I'm really curious to get to this chapter.

I hope they don't change it, I'm curious now lol.

 

[HeelPower]

It felt really good to get the sword back after the slog.

It almost reset the game in some sense.

It is a very unique point in the game ,and it looks & plays different from every other part in the game.

 

[kurahador]

Urghhh...when a developer wants to make the game to be even better.
You let them.

God I hope Tabata and Co. won't take this opinion seriously.

 

[Primethius]

I find it an incredible waste of resources in trying to patch the story bits in the game. There's a fun combat/hunt system there that patches should target in fixing, improving and bringing to the forefront.

The story? It's done. It can't be fixed. It had far too many problems.

Unless of course they just want to delete stuff. In which case, please delete Ravus, Dragoon lady, the Emperor and most of chapters 9-13. It all sucks.

 

[EVA UNIT 01]

Nah fam.
Delete that shit

 

[Hasemo]

My only problem with that sequence was that it kept going 2-3 times longer than it should've. Aside from that, I liked the change of pace. Maybe it's because I was high level, but I never did any stealth, just steamrolled over everything.

 

[jimmypython]

so he was basically saying this section of the game is like the live action opening sequence of resident evil 1. lol

 

[Violence Jack]

I'm only on chapter 2 so maybe it'll be gone by the time I get to it. I want to see just how bad it is.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

"If I had to suffer through it, so does everyone else!"

But seriously I'm actually very interested to see what this infamous chapter is like when I get to it.

No that big of a deal, actually.

 

[Skilletor]

I know that I'll never agree with or trust the opinion of anybody who defends or likes this garbage chapter.

So...that's good.

 

[ZSaberLink]

I'm pretty sure you'd be able to uninstall the patch if you wanted to play it in its crappy original state right? Anyways, a silly opinion imo.

 

[Chamber]

That chapter was more tedious than bad. I really didn't mind it but maybe all the complaints I read about it beforehand helped out a bit.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Sounds like a lot of OG's Ninja gaiden 2 sections.

I'm pretty sure the stairway of doom was not supposed to be funny or epic, yet it ended up being the greatest part of the whole game, watching the game slow down to a crawl with enemies making the game almost unplayable

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

It's weird. I'm eagerly awaiting this game on PC. I am interested and awaiting what Tabata will add to flesh out the story. I was a big fan of the post-launch content Bioware added to Mass Effect 3. That game was a night and day difference in my appreciation of it as a whole when I got to play it with all the things they added to it in terms of restored ending and DLC.

I've heard it being said from many that FFXV has a nice ending and good characters that needs fleshing out. So I am hopeful that Tabata and team adding more cut scenes and context will help make the end product better when it hits PC.
When you have a game with a bad ending it makes me not want to play it at all. Who wants to be invested in something that ends up annoying you? On the other hand, if you know you got a somewhat good / great conclusion that doesn't suck ass you at least know that you have an incentive to see it through to the end. That's not to say that the journey isn't as important as the destination! All I am saying is that I was comforted by hearing testimonials that the end to FFXV is better than one could have hoped.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

What exactly is so bad about chapter 13?

I can't find any articles saying why it's bad, just that it's bad and should be changed.

 

[LotusHD]

The place is not even bad if you are high enough level

This applies to most things people have been complaining about in FFXV

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Yeah, patch that. I'm on chapter 7 or whatever, so not really close. But fuck that.

I just played some sewer dungeon, and man, did that suck balls. Just one fucking big maze. Wish they patched that shit.

 

[antitrop]

It wasn't that bad, just too long.

What exactly is so bad about chapter 13?

I can't find any articles saying why, just that it's bad.

Spoiler

It's over 2 hours long, it's mostly corridors, you have all your weapons stripped away from you, combat is reduced to 1 button press to kill an enemy then you have to wait for your MP to charge.

 

[Johndoey]

I find it an incredible waste of resources in trying to patch the story bits in the game. There's a fun combat/hunt system there that patches should target in fixing, improving and bringing to the forefront.

The story? It's done. It can't be fixed. It had far too many problems.

Unless of course they just want to delete stuff. In which case, please delete Ravus, Dragoon lady, the Emperor and most of chapters 9-13. It all sucks.

Nah out of all that mess she's alright.

 

[Freezasaurus]

But seriously I'm actually very interested to see what this infamous chapter is like when I get to it.

Honestly, my feelings on the chapter evolved as I played.

"huh, this isn't so bad."

"Eh. This level kinda sucks."

"Man, this chapter is complete dog shit."

"OH MY GOD WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS!?"

 

[orthodoxy1095]

The article doesn't really touch on these two aspects, but there is A) an interesting argument with game preservation and B) what the hell are they even going to replace it with anyways?

What exactly is so bad about chapter 13?

I can't find any articles saying why, just that it's bad.

It strips basically everything away from you and makes you wander dark hallways for almost two hours trying to turn the power on for an elevator.

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

Chapter 13 isn't even bad. I played much much worse. If anything I hated the keycard area with the a, b, and c, switches but the progress really depends on your level. Besides, you get a

Spoiler

sword later on and it becomes less tedious

 

[Jangowuzhere]

It's really not that bad at all.

They're worse chapters in this game. Definitely so in other Final Fantasy games.

 

[Inuhanyou]

What exactly is so bad about chapter 13?

I can't find any articles saying why, just that it's bad.

It goes on FOREVER. Like 3 hours of navigating boring corridors without any powers and any real control besides using the ring to one shot enemies. Its not fun.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Wait....People had an issue with the chapter because it was hard? It was easier than shit! It was that it was longer all get out. That is the issue. If they simply patch the difficulty, nothing will change.

It goes on FOREVER. Like 3 hours of navigating boring corridors without any powers and any real control. Its not fun.

This

 

[Corsick]

I liked 13......it was just a tad too long. But the whole point of the chapter I loved.

I feel the same way, I understand why people dislike it, but the complete disdain people have for it shocked me a bit. I thought "yeah, this is a bit frustrating and awkward, but it's actually accomplishing a materially useful goal." For *me* at least, that goal was to make you and Noct

Spoiler

feel alone and vulnerable.

Because that was the first thing I felt and thought, it actually resonated with me pretty well. It had three main issues,

Spoiler

length, poor stealth mechanics and the amount of plot that was given to you through the environment or documents lying around.

In the end, I think the chapter actually served a productive purpose. Like other sections, it was the execution which faltered. But not enough so to justify wiping it out or severely truncating it. It does need to be shorter though, I'm just not sure how much so. I will say though, the fact that I became a bit unsettled with the enemies made me realize it succeeded in changing the tone in a way the game hadn't done prior to that. It managed to convey just a small hint of

Spoiler

horror

elements which went a long way with me.

 

[Lumpy Onion]

I love how long it went on. Felt like torture but I respected that they would take me out of my comfort zone to such a degree. The satisfaction when I finally meet up again with the gang was great. Can't say I want it to be lessened because I found it to be quite memorable as is.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

It goes on FOREVER. Like 3 hours of navigating boring corridors without any powers and any real control besides using the ring to one shot enemies. Its not fun.

It's about an hour, maybe an hour and a half at the most.

I thought it was a fun change of pace. Nothing in the game is like chapter 13. They should allow you to sprint during that section. Not being able to run makes that entire chapter feel much longer than it really is.

 

[jiggle]

It's weird. I'm eagerly awaiting this game on PC. I am interested and awaiting what Tabata will add to flesh out the story. I was a big fan of the post-launch content Bioware added to Mass Effect 3. That game was a night and day difference in my appreciation of it as a whole when I got to play it with all the things they added to it in terms of restored ending and DLC.

I've heard it being said from many that FFXV has a nice ending and good characters that needs fleshing out. So I am hopeful that Tabata and team adding more cut scenes and context will help make the end product better when it hits PC.
When you have a game with a bad ending it makes me not want to play it at all. Who wants to be invested in something that ends up annoying you? On the other hand, if you know you got a somewhat good / great conclusion that doesn't suck ass you at least know that you have an incentive to see it through to the end. That's not to say that the journey isn't as important as the destination! All I am saying is that I was comforted by hearing testimonials that the end to FFXV is better than one could have hoped.

It's an impossible task because of the way the game's story is structured

 

[Y2Kev]

I think charitably it can be described as "atmospheric" so perhaps they should fix it by making it a movie. It's certainly not...like, fun I guess.

 

[Skilletor]

It's about an hour, maybe an hour and a half at the most.

I thought it was a fun change of pace. Nothing in the game is like chapter 13.

I wonder why I keep seeing people say this like it's a good thing.

 

[Y2Kev]

It's only an hour if you really do move very quickly, get good luck or whatever with the boss, and even then at best you can describe it as a "change of pace." The way someone dumping scalding hot water on your lap after you read the newspaper is a change of pace.

 

[Chamber]

The place is not even bad if you are high enough level

It's not that bad if you're underleveled

Spoiler

until Ravus starts laying hands on you

. I'm curious to see how they adjust it since the power of the ring isn't really the issue.

 

[Meowster]

It really wasn't that bad. All you have to do is hold the dodge button. It just went on too long.

 

[Illucio]

Hahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahah

No. No no no no NO no no no NO.

Who.. In what mind?
HHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHA

.....

Patch that, all over the floor. Patch that, give me some more. Patch that oooooOOOOOOoooh.

 

[Papercuts]

I sorta get the idea of where he's coming from but...no.

That said I don't think a patch is even going to really fix it since the ring power isn't an issue at all, that needs a lot of time shaved off or an outright rework.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Anti-design is a good term, and im also a fan of it. Haven't gotten to Ch. 13 yet so I can't comment, but I do love games that want to troll players with some purposefully obtuse or just user unfriendly sections/mechanics.

 

[ethomaz]

It is shit and amateur.

I know the team rushed to meet deadlines but it was better to cut it off than sent it to consumers.

Anybody in the team that approved it was using crazy substances (or maybe just too tired to do a good work).