He is so American.
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Wired: These Days It Makes More Sense For Batman To Be A Villain
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
He is so American.
adamsappel
Member
Looks like a Will Eisner rip-off.
Ironic.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Seems like a solid premise. Someone going "hey, someone dressing up in a costume to punch poor people in order to solve crime is actually kind of stupid" isn't really a novel concept, but it always seems like Batman never really gets the villain treatment that often. Superman does all the time even though it always made more sense for Batman to be a villainous character.
There is more Jorge Zaffino or even Bill Waterson in those pages than Will Eisner.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
It's promised be a lot more deeper than that. Owlman is nowhere near what Bruce Wayne is.
Jorge Zaffino I can see. Bill Waterson..............not really.
Hades Hotgun
Banned
I'm pretty sure Sean had cited Waterson as a major influence.
The book sounds great and SGM is one of the greatest artists in the medium. Haven't bought anything from DC proper in years, but I'll be all over this.
adamsappel
Member
Eh, "rip off" was a little much, I admit. It's great art, no doubt, but the woman in that first pic, the shadow work, the layout, google images, it's all very reminiscent (to me) of Eisner.
Yeah. Its not crazy overt but once you hear it you can see it, at least I did.
IrishNinja
Member
frank miller's been doing fascist bats forever now, they kinda kept it going in kingdom come too
oh god, vagina-bombs
oh god, vagina-bombs
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
This book sounds like it's going to try and tackle that very idea. I'm intrigued because the conservative vigilantism that Batman often represents and most cape comics in general can't be used to tackle underlying social issues that cause crime and strife, but do present a very narrow, right-leaning worldview and how to best deal with it (Outside the boundaries of the law and society).
Imperfected
Member
Guys, guys! But what if Batman was really poor, and wimpy, and kind of dumb?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
It doesn't have to be, does it? It's how the idea is handled, how it is voiced, and what it is used to say that needs to be fresh.
I think he does both, doesn't he? He's always working on improving Gotham.
The refusing to kill people thing is a very useful narrative conceit for an on-going comic. It's a comic about a dude dressing up like a bat, so some suspension of disbelief is in order.
Polioliolio
Member
Not that this doesn't sound interesting, but a modern real batman would hang republicans out to dry and expose their shit.
You can almost see a TAS style Trump cowering for his life, throwing money in Batman's direction as Batman slowly steps closer to grab and hold him over a building by the collar.
You can almost see a TAS style Trump cowering for his life, throwing money in Batman's direction as Batman slowly steps closer to grab and hold him over a building by the collar.
Yellowflashdude
Member
No thanks, I always think of Batman as the champion for normal humans amongst superpowered heroes.
I love when you know who hasn't read a Batman comic recently, possibly ever, by what they post.
I think a more original take would be to pull Batman out of the cycle of comic storytelling and fit him as a hero in a modern day liberal worldview. Making Batman into a psychotic vigilante has already been done. Face to heel turns of classic characters has been done to death.
Oh come on, when does Batman go after billionaire criminals in the comics? Lex excluded.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I'd argue that Talia and Ra's Al Ghul are minted, what with their incredibly well resourced international crime syndicate, and access to cloning tech. I think The Black Glove count too. The Court of Owls are entirely run by rich weirdos who look like they actually fuck owls. There are probably more, but I'm not at my bookshelf at the mo.
Going down the scale, Penguin has cash (as the other poster pointed out). Batman has taken down a number of Mayors and Commissioners during his time though too; they may not be super rich a la Trump, by they represent upper-class and corrupt government.
Turning Batman into the villain is a concept that should be explored more. Personally, I've always found it a little tough to swallow the idea that he's always the champion of the "everyman" and the relatable normal guy considering what he is and some of the shit we've seen him do in different incarnations.
My only issue with this particular story is making the Joker the good guy. Would rather a villain like Anarky or even another hero like Green Arrow.
My only issue with this particular story is making the Joker the good guy. Would rather a villain like Anarky or even another hero like Green Arrow.
He does this. A large part of what Bruce Wayne does during the day is helping Gotham legit.
This is not a Batman problem. All well-known supervillains break out of jail/come back eventually.
Batman stops plenty of villains that never escape. The ones that inevitably do are the ones that are popular and thus MANDATED by the audience to come back. This and the no-kill thing are not Batman specific issues.
JonnyDBrit
Member
To be honest, most longterm problems of the Batman mythos boil down 'because the writers don't let it work'. Gotham isn't allowed to be anything better than the absolute worst hellhole on Earth (ironic, as the silver age it was actually one of the safest cities in the DCU). Villains never make any progress towards becoming better people, certainly not from the facilities intended to actually help them - Harley and Ivy may hover between anti-villains and anti-heroes, but that's not because of the Arkham staff. Bruce's various donations and galas will never provide substantial benefits to the city. And because of comicbook time compression, it won't ever be treated, either in universe or by fans, as though it's been it's been years since a given villain's last crime, but months at best, leaving the question of 'Why even bother arresting them?' up in the air, particularly as the decades have simply made the villains more and more lethal.
Still, book has potential I'd say. Only hope it doesn't fall into the trap of the Joker not really reforming after all. Both because it's been done - hi Frank Miller - and because it would likely undermine the premise they're going for. We'll see.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
In the Spider-Gwen universe Peter was the petty nerd that wanted power so he could deal with his bullies and not feel inferior. When Gwen got spider powers he wanted powers so badly he turned himself into the Lizard.
TheRedSnifit
Member
I actually think the reason Batman sees few villain stories compared to, say, Superman is specifically because of how many writers cast him as an unrelateable nut. Even a lot of the lighter-and-softer incarnations like TAS tend to play this up occasionally.
NeonZ
Member
I doubt this Batman wants revenge against the police. It seems like he's still going after criminals, just doing it in a worse way than the mainstream one. Owlman always suffered from the general refusal to make Bruce a villain. He isn't even Bruce himself but a brother that only existed in that world.
Fuck, I'm so ready for this. People who are sneering at the idea of villain Batman have no god damn clue how rare that actually is in comics. They never really let that scenario play it out throughout a story, it's always Batman as the protagonist grappling with his flaws. And who better to face him down than his greatest enemy? Even when he's not chalk white and insane, he's still his biggest threat.
Also, finally a Joker story where he's actually with Harley. Harley by herself is garbage, but Joker is always better when he has her by his side.
Also, finally a Joker story where he's actually with Harley. Harley by herself is garbage, but Joker is always better when he has her by his side.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I really loved the episode of Brave and the Bold where Bateman visits an opposite world where heroes are villains and vice versa
In that universe, Joker doesn't go completely insane after his dip in chemicals, but he's disgusted by his grotesque appearance, and instead picks up the mantra of the Red Hood. He uses playing card style gadgets and fights against Owlman.
I thought having Red Hood be Joker's "good" persona was a really cool way of handling it.
In that universe, Joker doesn't go completely insane after his dip in chemicals, but he's disgusted by his grotesque appearance, and instead picks up the mantra of the Red Hood. He uses playing card style gadgets and fights against Owlman.
I thought having Red Hood be Joker's "good" persona was a really cool way of handling it.
LordOfLore
Banned
So Sean's treating it as a "what if" based on actual Batman continuity. I thought it was going to be an 'alternate dimension' thing.
I'm suddenly a lot more excited for this.
SENPAIatLARGE
Banned
Evil Flash is game over for the whole D.C. Universe. The only reason Eobard Thawne hasn't killed everyone in Barry's timeline is because of his obsession with Barry. Evil Flash could wipe out most of Earths heroes in a hour with speedforce
Discotheque
Banned
Sounds cool. Kind of fell off superhero comics lately but I'll buy this if I hear it's decent. I'm all for subversions right now. Batmans my GOAT and a shakeup like this could be interesting to read
That's exactly why it would be mroe interesting. That, plus I don't rememeber him ever going evil.
Meanwhile, we have like 5 or 6 evil Batmen this year alone! (But it looks like a good event comic).
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Evil Nightwing is the best. This is not an ad for Nightwing: The New Order.
Nope, not at all.
Nope, not at all.
We still get people saying Hawkeye is useless, when he'd be the most dangerous man on our planet with ease if he was real.
Besides, guys with no super powers are the scariest. Batman has literally challenged Gods and got them to bluff.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Pretty much.